Lost in Translation

Started by AlguienEstolamiPantalones, September 07, 2003, 11:51:23 PM

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pete

#240
February 06, 2004, 04:12:44 PM
you don't think the "Japanese Johnny Carson" was greeted with Bill Murray (or Bob)'s ironic disbelief?  That was the feeling I got from the film, that Bob was just greeted with too much wackiness everywhere he went so he felt the need to combat it with ironic humour, he hated the country and wanted to get out of there.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

SoNowThen

#241
February 06, 2004, 04:23:04 PM
Hating the country and wanting to get out of there does not make someone a racist. He was uncomfortable, jet lagged, and at a shitty time in his life.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

pete

#242
February 06, 2004, 04:33:59 PM
I never said he was racist, or the movie was racist.
the movie is filled with one too many sight gags of the littleness and wackiness of Japanese people, as well as bemused beautiful American heroes' quips.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

NEON MERCURY

#243
February 06, 2004, 04:41:22 PM
Quote from: peteyou don't think the "Japanese Johnny Carson" was greeted with Bill Murray (or Bob)'s ironic disbelief?   .

thats why i think coppola wannted him for this ffilm...he plays ironny perfect......think of grounnnhog day.....ghostbusters.....that his humor..that s murray's gennius...thats the reason he won that golden globe....thats the reason ffor the oscar nod,,,,,.the film calls for that type of ironic humor/disbelief ....which is not rascist....if anythin g....the films "special--ness"...(if you will)......comes from tokyo.......if the ffilm was shot in ...let's say......providence , rhode island.....it would not have work......the film calls on tokyo's aesthetic beauty.................................i donnn't see the rascism in this film.....at all......it like saying that the cowboy in mulholland dr. is rascist to texans.......

pete

#244
February 06, 2004, 04:47:37 PM
once again, if you scroll up just right above you, you'll see that I said "I never said the movie was racist."
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

NEON MERCURY

#245
February 06, 2004, 04:52:57 PM
Quote from: peteonce again, if you scroll up just right above you, you'll see that I said "I never said the movie was racist."


sorry..i didn't see that.......bu ti think the aguement is rather moot.....

rmember its........called

Lost in Translation.....

kotte

#246
February 06, 2004, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: peteyou don't think the "Japanese Johnny Carson" was greeted with Bill Murray (or Bob)'s ironic disbelief?  

I would've reacted the exakt same way. More over-the-top stupid, silly talk show is hard to find...that's my opinion...and I'm not racist. Why did she put that in the movies? Because that's nothing we've ever seen before and can relate to Harris...

xerxes

#247
February 06, 2004, 09:07:10 PM
i really didn't want to get into this debate, but i couldn't stay out any longer. i saw no condescension towards the japanese culture at all. in my opinion the film was very compassionate in its portrayal of the culture ( the scenes where scarlett johansson travels around japan are a good example). godardian also had some very good points. anyway, i'm not gonna get into this too much, so that's all i'm gonna say.

pete

#248
February 06, 2004, 09:24:40 PM
compassionate?  Is Japan a starving child?  A war victim in distress?  Why would a culture need Sophia Coppola's compassion?  And how is long running gag of their height, their exotic fetishes, their love of wacky talk show hosts, their confusion over L and R, and their hospital staff's inability to speak English showing compassion?
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

Raikus

#249
February 06, 2004, 10:29:17 PM
Quote from: petecompassionate?  Is Japan a starving child?  A war victim in distress?  Why would a culture need Sophia Coppola's compassion?  And how is long running gag of their height, their exotic fetishes, their love of wacky talk show hosts, their confusion over L and R, and their hospital staff's inability to speak English showing compassion?
Did you ever consider that this is an accurate portrayal of a foreign visitor's views? The third character in LiT is Tokyo and the people of Japan. The movie takes the setting and gives it life. I just can't see how you see all of it as demeaning. Did you not see the honor and worth of the Kyoto temple scene? Did you not see paradoxes of the Japanese culture the way it actually exists? The movie was about outsider's viewing a foreign culture. Unless you have been there and can say they don't have small showers, or don't bow upon greeting, or aren't impressed with American actors (of which they were PR representatives anyway and I've yet to meet a PR rep who doesn't constantly blow smoke up their clients asses).

All in all it seems that you see their culture, displayed fairly accurately and without much characterization, as demeaning. It seems you're the most closed minded of all.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free, silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands, with all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves, let me forget about today until tomorrow.

pete

#250
February 06, 2004, 10:33:16 PM
it's not about the showers, it's about the outsiders' snide reaction, and the film's attempts to go out of its way to exoticize the showers.  a cultural setting does not depend the foreigners' point of view to give it life anyways.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton

Recce

#251
February 06, 2004, 10:45:51 PM
Forgive me if I repeat something someone already said, but I'm not reading through 17 pages of posts.

I really liked some of the framing. It was a bit different then you're average film. The poster, for example, was awesome and sold me on going to see the movie. One thing, however, when there is that shot of scarlet johanson laying on the bed with the cmaera behind her, all I was thinking was that we could see her ass crack through her underwear. I felt ashamed and shallow for thinking of only that during what could have been a very emotional scene, even without dialogue, but it was unavoidable. It was right there. For that, I blame Sofia Coppola. Now I can tell people Sofia Coppola put me in a situation where I felt ashamed.
"The idea had been growing in my brain for some time: TRUE force. All the king's men
                        cannot put it back together again." (Travis Bickle, "Taxi Driver")

The Perineum Falcon

#252
February 06, 2004, 11:14:25 PM
Quote from: peteit's not about the showers, it's about the outsiders' snide reaction, and the film's attempts to go out of its way to exoticize the showers.  a cultural setting does not depend the foreigners' point of view to give it life anyways.
Get that Japanese stick out of your ass, ASAP. You're being rediculous about this. What did you honestly want him to do?
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

ono

#253
February 06, 2004, 11:15:54 PM
Quote from: RecceOne thing, however, when there is that shot of scarlet johanson laying on the bed with the cmaera behind her, all I was thinking was that we could see her ass crack through her underwear. I felt ashamed and shallow for thinking of only that during what could have been a very emotional scene, even without dialogue, but it was unavoidable.
...but that was the opening shot, and that's what Coppola wanted you to think about: her femininity.

pete

#254
February 06, 2004, 11:17:37 PM
Quote from: ranemaka13
Quote from: peteit's not about the showers, it's about the outsiders' snide reaction, and the film's attempts to go out of its way to exoticize the showers.  a cultural setting does not depend the foreigners' point of view to give it life anyways.
Get that Japanese stick out of your ass, ASAP. You're being rediculous about this. What did you honestly want him to do?

dude chill with the personal stuff before you hurt yourself.
"Tragedy is a close-up; comedy, a long shot."
- Buster Keaton
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