Licorice Pizza - Speculation & General Reactions

d · November 22, 2021, 02:41:35 PM

Oh boy. Good to know since what starts at 3:45 in that sequence is probably in my top 5 PTA moments ever. The title card and what happens around it is the only moment that I love more in IV.

Lots of Bees · November 22, 2021, 02:51:28 PM

Quote from: d on November 22, 2021, 02:41:35 PM
Oh boy. Good to know since what starts at 3:45 in that sequence is probably in my top 5 PTA moments ever. The title card and what happens around it is the only moment that I love more in IV.

For me it's 1) ouija board rain sequence, 2) the one that starts at 3:45 (also I'd like to include the low angle as he walks up to chick planet with the flags above him and JG's music), and 3) the title card.

If the last couple minutes of the "everything in this dream" video were actually in the movie then that would probably be number 1. I get why he cut it and think the movie's better off the way it is, but I probably go back and rewatch that video, from "Doc figured if he missed the Gordita Beach exit..." and onwards more than maybe any other PTA scene.

WorldForgot · November 22, 2021, 02:51:39 PM

Quote from: Derekk_kal on November 22, 2021, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: WorldForgot on November 22, 2021, 02:32:38 PM
You're in for a meal.

Ok I don't think personally PTA can top IV (the Pynchon effect) but excited regardless.

Having seen LP, IV remains my personal favorite PTA but they are definitely siblings of sorts - and the craft will not disappoint, I don't think.

wilberfan · November 22, 2021, 02:56:49 PM

Este has taken on the Hannah Waddingham role in the group. Not sure I understood how much more of her there is compared to her siblings.

wilberfan · November 22, 2021, 03:08:34 PM

Quote from: pynchonikon on November 22, 2021, 02:39:54 PM
New York Times interview with Kyle Buchanan

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/22/movies/paul-thomas-anderson-licorice-pizza.html?partner=IFTTT

QuoteDoes it surprise you how some people are reacting to the age difference between Alana and Gary?

There's no line that's crossed, and there's nothing but the right intentions. It would surprise me if there was some kind of kerfuffle about it, because there's not that much there. That's not the story that we made, in any kind of way. There isn't a provocative bone in this film's body.

QuoteThere's at least one provocative bone in this film's body. I'm thinking of the scenes with a white restaurateur, played by John Michael Higgins, where he talks to his Japanese wife in an accent so offensive that my audience actually gasped.

Well, that's different. I think it would be a mistake to tell a period film through the eyes of 2021. You can't have a crystal ball, you have to be honest to that time. Not that it wouldn't happen right now, by the way. My mother-in-law's Japanese and my father-in-law is white, so seeing people speak English to her with a Japanese accent is something that happens all the time. I don't think they even know they're doing it.

Thank you, Paul.

I found this fascinating as well.

QuoteEven though your dad worked in television, you still believed that Hollywood was some mystical place over the hill from the valley?

Probably, because talk about a different time. It was a time when movies were magical, and TV was just something you had in a box at home. Those days are long gone, you know? I was at the office the other day and a woman said, "I've seen this brilliant new film. It's called 'Dopesick,' with Michael Keaton." I said, "I think that's a limited series." She said, "Yeah, whatever." She doesn't really think about films as much as I do or you do. She was just like, "What are you talking about? It's a film to me."

Those lines are being blurred, but sometimes I watch a limited series and I think, "Shouldn't this be a movie?"

It's a great format when it works. It's exciting. Then again, so are series. I've never dipped a toe in that world, but I can imagine it being very difficult to sustain the life of a story for more than two, three, four seasons.

Have people ever coaxed you to dip a toe in that world?

No, no one asks. I'm just sort of playing in my own corner of the sandbox. As a writer, I think we have fantasies when you struggle with editing material down: "I have so much material, perhaps this is a limited series." When in fact, no, it's not, you just need to edit down your story. I mean, a film should preferably be two hours. That's when they're at their best. I've missed that mark multiple times, but that's really the goal.

I recommend DOPESICK, btw...

Jeremy Blackman · November 22, 2021, 10:43:32 PM

https://twitter.com/Srirachachau/status/1462965753582292996

Montclair · November 23, 2021, 01:07:49 AM

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on November 22, 2021, 10:43:32 PM
https://twitter.com/Srirachachau/status/1462965753582292996

https://twitter.com/godrundog/status/1462970187536285696

Drenk · November 23, 2021, 03:49:18 AM

I mean. Yeah. This is a very childish PoV to imagine a scenario where the adult you had a crush on as a child indulges your feelings, without considering the fact that the adult is...an adult...and wouldn't get involved without being a creep. To brush it off with a throwaway line (...is it weird?

) and « right intentions »: all right.

That tweet makes me think of the grown man who, after watching Leaving Neverland, talked in a YouTube video about the babysitter who used to make the kids touch her breasts and how wrong it felt despite the fact the kids were bragging about it. First time he was talking about it as an adult to his friends.

See. This isn't immature adult flashing her breasts to teenager in a funny scene if you're interested in what would be happening; but PTA wanted to write his fantasy, why not.

Derekk_kal · November 23, 2021, 04:25:19 AM

Quote from: Drenk on November 23, 2021, 03:49:18 AM
I mean. Yeah. This is a very childish PoV to imagine a scenario where the adult you had a crush on as a child indulges your feelings without considering the fact that the adult is...an adult...and wouldn't get involved without being a creep. To brush it off with a throwaway line (...is it weird? ) and « right intentions »: all right.

That tweet makes me think of the grown man who, after watching Leaving Neverland, talked in a YouTube video about the babysitter who used to make the kids touch her breasts and how wrong it felt despite the fact the kids were bragging about it. First time he was talking about it as an adult to his friends.

See. This isn't immature adult flashing her breasts to teenager in a funny scene if you're interested in what would be happening; but PTA wanted to write his fantasy, why not.

I mean why can't the lead be a creep? Do you think it is so superficial for a PTA lead to be morally ambiguous? Your argument would make sense if Alana is the only one portrayed like that while the remaining characters are unambiguously good and not opportunistic horny misogynists. Maybe you can judge the movie after seeing it rather than based on overly sensitive reactions.

Also speaking of fantasy, the exact same argument could be made for Phantom thread. So yes it is normal to see auteur fetishes on screen.

Drenk · November 23, 2021, 04:32:26 AM

Oh. Maybe! But then you should inform PTA that she isn't innocent and with the « right intentions » and I wouldn't, having not seen the movie, get the impression that he was afraid of the obvious predatory undertones of his premise.

It's funny to be described as sensitive when I'm basically asking for the movie to have « provocative bones » in its body. It's easier to misunderstand me and think PTA is saying this is a complex and messed up and morally ambiguous relationship and that I'd like it as simple as he is currently describing it.

Derekk_kal · November 23, 2021, 04:44:23 AM

Maybe he thinks that the lead is not innocent while also not predatory. Maybe you are just being overly critical because of the premise alone. Maybe PTA is an out of touch white guy mentally stuck in the 70s (which he is for both good and bad reasons

) Who knows?

Also was not referring to you as sensitive but some reactions online. Cheers!

Drenk · November 23, 2021, 04:53:51 AM

Then I would be doubly disappointed in his cowardice if that's not what he thinks. Being out of touch/ignorant and accidentally making a groomer fantasy because you want an innocent vibe would be a problem I, personally, would have a hard time to overlook. And the movie critics making jokes about their parents and their age gaps seem to want very hard to not think about it, apparently.

Derekk_kal · November 23, 2021, 05:01:54 AM

Man he has a 40 million dollar movie to sell and it would be the proper way to stay away from provocative reinforcements outright. The art should speak for itself and not judged based on cowardice in a nytimes promotional interview.

Drenk · November 23, 2021, 05:22:03 AM

This is still the Speculations thread, as far as I'm concerned. I think I'm a pretty rigorous critic of what movies actually are.

I don't believe he is entirely builshitting in his interviews because he is speaking the words I feared he would use once we knew a little bit more about the premise/movie.

But: his movies always are more interesting than what he says, I know.

Alma · November 23, 2021, 06:15:44 AM

I say this as someone who has no thoughts about this issue as it is presented in the film and won't until I've seen it, so this relates more to some of the discussions that have been going on on social media and the like, but comparisons to Phantom Thread or other PTA films (or lumping it in with "age gap discourse" which I've seen elsewhere online) seems to be a deliberate misreading of the situation: there is a world of difference between weirdness or moral ambiguity between two consenting adults in a relationship, and an adult and someone who cannot legally consent; they are not remotely comparable ethically.