elephant

[cowboykurtis]

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

My highschool doesn't have a group of socialite girls who throw up together in the bathroom, nor does it have a quiet ugly loner girl, nor does it have a Jock/Hot girlfriend couple.  It does have some artsy people, but not one artsy guy.

not only did my highschool have this -- my junior high had it as well.

[SHAFTR]

Two things:

Taking fewer characters in greater detail and personal feelings would have shifted the focus from the story to the "character piece". That wouldn't have suited this movie at all. In fact, THAT would have been offensive.

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

I agree.  High School is a stereotype.  Most people haven't figured out who they are yet so they just become a set of conventions.  I didn't figure out the truth until after High School.

[FooBoy]

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

Sure, all schools contain sterotypes, but in Elephant, the characters were nothing but sterotypes. However, this was obviously an artistic decision on the part of Gus Van Sant.

[El Duderino]

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

My highschool doesn't have a group of socialite girls who throw up together in the bathroom, nor does it have a quiet ugly loner girl, nor does it have a Jock/Hot girlfriend couple.  It does have some artsy people, but not one artsy guy.

charter school?

[Tictacbk]

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

My highschool doesn't have a group of socialite girls who throw up together in the bathroom, nor does it have a quiet ugly loner girl, nor does it have a Jock/Hot girlfriend couple.  It does have some artsy people, but not one artsy guy.

charter school?

Nah Suburban white kid public school.

[mutinyco]

So what you're saying is, there's nobody worth killing at your school?

[Gold Trumpet]

How can something be stale if it has occured, is occuring, and will continue to occur?

Also, I think the group (rather than an extremely individual approach) representation is one of the main things that contributed to that important objectivity JB was talking about.

For the first sentence, you talk like this film spoke the grand truth of the subject. It did not. My rejection of the film has nothing to do with the validity of these situations happening, but how non interesting I find the objecification of it. Schools have stereotypes in cliques, yea, but its also true once you dig deeper, things are not just that. In movies, they are just like that.

With the objectivity, I understand that point of view but I find little great art being shown in what was presented here. Its not that I'm arguing against the point of view of an entire group of high school students, but pandering to the most obvious ideas of how high school students are.

[The Disco Kid]

GT, amen brother.

[mutinyco]

I disagree. I do think kids are stereotypes. And from my experience in suburbia, most kids' experiences are so narrow that (until they go off to college, say) they really do come off as automotons. People create a very narrow set of ideas and expectations for themselves -- and quite often live up to other's perceptions because it's easier than trying to be something more. They might be different outside of school, but in school there's usually a pretty strict social structure where people predominantly play their roles.

Another thing, and this is more specific to Elephant -- the bulk of the movie takes place within like a 10 minute period. Not only that, but these kids ARE at school. We're given a narrow range of time to explore their lives. And also, these weren't actors playing scripted roles, it was improvised. Auditions were held and most of the kids wound up playing essentially themselves. Did you even notice that 95% used their REAL names?

[SoNowThen]

So what you're saying is, there's nobody worth killing at your school?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Also, you can't get upset about the "superficial stereotypes", because every high school is made up of them. There's the Ugly Loner Girl, the Artsy Guy, the Jock With The Hot Girlfriend, etc. Face it, you can't make a high school movie without embracing this.

My highschool doesn't have a group of socialite girls who throw up together in the bathroom, nor does it have a quiet ugly loner girl, nor does it have a Jock/Hot girlfriend couple.  It does have some artsy people, but not one artsy guy.

charter school?

Nah Suburban white kid public school.

...on Mars?

[Gold Trumpet]

I disagree. I do think kids are stereotypes. And from my experience in suburbia, most kids' experiences are so narrow that (until they go off to college, say) they really do come off as automotons. People create a very narrow set of ideas and expectations for themselves -- and quite often live up to other's perceptions because it's easier than trying to be something more. They might be different outside of school, but in school there's usually a pretty strict social structure where people predominantly play their roles.

There is partial truth to the stereotypes. See, I was in a unique situation. I went from very popular jock to outcast loner very quickly (dropped all involvement in sports) and experienced two completely type of friends in that regards and yea, cliques were everywhere, but I realized that with all the cliques of people, no one really was that different from each other and the lines of their "identity" were so much deeper than the obvious first assumptions. To get the identity of people in high school is to start with the stereotypes that are true and dig deeper to see how blurred those lines really are and actually do little to define people at high school. Individuality does exist. But, of course, this discussion feels ill fated in actually getting anywhere. We really can't discuss points here all that much.

Another thing, and this is more specific to Elephant -- the bulk of the movie takes place within like a 10 minute period. Not only that, but these kids ARE at school. We're given a narrow range of time to explore their lives. And also, these weren't actors playing scripted roles, it was improvised. Auditions were held and most of the kids wound up playing essentially themselves.

Then why couldn't Van Sant have just dropped the cheesy characterizations that hole everyone up into stereotypes? Why couldn't he have focused on the interaction of random students instead of what seems a very precise selection he likely felt gave the most diversity? It would have freed up a lot of the criticism I have that the story is performing superficial stereotyping of the identity of students and we would have scenes certain students moren in the light of who there were for that time, instead of giving over reaching symbolism that couldn't be more conventional.

Did you even notice that 95% used their REAL names?

Good for them.

[mutinyco]

Because it's a movie, not a documentary.

[Chest Rockwell]

GT just got SeRvEd!

[Ravi]

It was only a matter of time before that became the new Owned.

[Chest Rockwell]