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Game of Thrones (spoilers)

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Drenk

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Reply #750 on: May 10, 2019, 02:33:42 PM
Is it Gendry? I see five possibilities:

óCersei
óDaenerys
óJon
óSansa
óGendry
Ascension.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #751 on: May 10, 2019, 02:58:51 PM
Speculation spoilers:

Spoiler: ShowHide
I'm torn right now, because I want to believe I wasn't spoiled (by a random Vanity Fair article btw), but I even more desperately want it to be true because it's so perfect.

The hint they drop in Ep 4 is so significant and specific that I think you could figure it out just from that.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Fernando

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Reply #752 on: May 10, 2019, 10:56:05 PM
In case you guys haven't seen it, the new beautiful death is amazing.



Thanks for keeping the speculations as spoiler (your theories I don't mind, that I love to read actually), I'm avoiding articles, news and everything related.

Having said that, it made me mad the dumb reason Dany was ambushed by Euron, she forgot? WTF, I mean WTF!
And as pointed out by you guys here, Cersei not wiping them out here and there is also inexcusable, also, did Tyrion thought she would give up the throne just because he asked nicely?

Anyway, obviously I still love the show and have faith they will do something incredible.

And I'm with Cbrad, please FFS keep Drogon alive for these two episodes.


https://beautifuldeath.com/


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #753 on: May 11, 2019, 12:13:09 AM
I've become more convinced with each passing hour today that this theory is true. There's just so much evidence for it. And it's so perfect that I now can't imagine the show ending another way. So yeah, I would consider it a spoiler.

I do want to dive into it a bit, though.

So... this is either a speculation spoiler or an actual future spoiler. Do not click if you want to be surprised.

Spoilers!  Future Spoilers!  This might be real!  Click at your own risk! : ShowHide
If you could think of one character to take the throne who would be both maximally satisfying and maximally surprising, who would it be? Bran, of course.

Let's ignore betting odds and potential leaks (which I haven't read). What is the textual evidence for Bran?

In 604, at 14:30, Tyrion visits Bran for a chat:

Tyrion: You know our history better than anyone. That would be useful as lord of Winterfell.
Bran: I'm not lord of Winterfell.
Tyrion: You're the only surviving true-born son of Ned Stark.
Bran: (silence)
Tyrion: You don't want it...
Bran: I don't really want anymore.

Later, at 1:01:00, Tyrion chats with Varys:

Tyrion: He [Jon] doesn't want the throne. That's why he bent the knee.
Varys: Have you considered the best ruler might be someone who doesn't want to rule?
(...)
Varys: Jon's the one man alive who might be able to keep the North in the seven kingdoms [except Bran!]

Varys also talks about succession and "the rightful heir" being important. Which brings us to this:

How would Bran actually take the throne? My prediction: Dany dies, Jon survives, Jon is about to be crowned as the rightful heir... and he abdicates the throne to Bran.

Besides not wanting to rule and being drawn back to the North (as Tormund helpfully foreshadows), what on earth would give Jon the idea to abdicate the throne to his younger brother? When Jon first joined the Night's Watch, he chatted with Aemon Targaryen, who told Jon that he abdicated the throne to his younger brother.

Aemon said this: "My father was Maekar, the First of his Name. My brother Aegon reigned after him, when I had refused the throne, and he was followed by his son Aerys, whom they called 'the Mad King'."

Two honorable and virtuous Targaryen abdicators. Aegon's abdication did not turn out so well. Jon's very well might.

Imagine having the actual Three-Eyed Raven ruling the seven kingdoms. A supernatural and potentially immortal being with no personal desire, incomprehensibly vast knowledge, and unparalleled powers of observation. Varys thinks he's the ultimate protector of the realm? Let me introduce you to the Three-Eyed freaking Raven, my friend. This is Westeros's best shot at the peace and stability that Aegon the Conqueror promised.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Drenk

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Reply #754 on: May 11, 2019, 12:25:34 AM
Spoiler: ShowHide
It would be like letting Big Date rule countries, Bran knows everything that happened but that doesn't mean he knows how to rule or even how to process it in order to make decisions; and being a cold database, removed from humanity, can result in weird "greater good" scenarios. Sansa is way more legitimate than Bran. She actually...did political things. In my opinion, that would be a bad choice. Is it possible? Absolutely.
Ascension.


Lottery

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Reply #755 on: May 11, 2019, 01:04:10 AM
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I'm a bit puzzled by the Bran theory. He has been largely useless in the last few eps- he seems to be uninterested in helping Jon and Dany on their fight against Cersei but for some reason he insists that Jon needs to know his heritage even if all it does is cause conflict. One could say that he is aware of a fixed timeline and only contributes when he is allowed but if that is the case, then fate is governed by morons considering his present actions.
He has no real value as a figurehead or decision-maker to the average joe. An indifferent demi-god may not make for a good ruler and he already alienates those around him. He has already rejected being Lord of Winterfell so him ending up as king would be odd.
The Bran thing could only ever work if there was a return to humanity. Otherwise he belongs in the Godswood.
I'm not sure if definite peace and stability is the expected endpoint.


Sansa is a better choice but I think she is best as Lady of Winterfell. Her story is about returning to her family, home and roots and rejecting her 'southern lady' dreams. Jon probably doesn't want kingship. Not to mention, now that's he's ostensibly fulfilled his purpose (like Mel and Beric), he could die. I think he also belongs in The North.

Cersei has to die.
I'm not too sure about Gendry either (even if he is technically the closest thing to J + D's heir because of his ancestry, plus the added benefit of being a Baratheon).

Other options: a democracy ending would be dumb but a return to independent states like in the pre-Aegon era makes a bit more sense. Especially if Jon + Dany die.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #756 on: May 11, 2019, 10:32:27 AM
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Bran may have declined being lord of Winterfell, but that only tells us he wasn't meant for that job, and that he knows Sansa was born for it.

The fact that Bran has been a bit dormant is only further evidence that he's set for a comeback. The same way Varys has been useless but will probably play a major role in this last stretch.

Bran is not apolitical. He intervenes to do what's best for the realm. Bran does not hesitate to tell people what to do when it's important, and he's perfectly capable of making decisions. He made plenty of them that specifically led to this situation where it's going to be possible for him to land in that unlikely position. He gave Arya the dagger that would kill the Night King. He helped take down Littlefinger. And in his most emphatic and insistent intervention to date, he started a chain of events that might take down Daenerys, setting the stage for Jon's abdication to him.

It's completely plausible that Bran doesn't "want" the throne but knows objectively that the Three-Eyed Raven would be the best ruler. Sure he lacks charisma and would need help interacting with mere mortals, but that's where people like Tyrion come in.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Drenk

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Reply #757 on: May 11, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Spoiler: ShowHide
Ascension.


Robyn

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Reply #758 on: May 12, 2019, 02:57:01 PM
On my second rewatch, I didn't dislike the episode as much.

The note they ended the episode on is fine, but I have issues with how they got there, mainly how the dragon and the rest of their army died. I think it would have felt more satisfying if they had died in the battle against the dead, instead of having that shithead Euron offing them in a blink of an eye. I agree that the battle against the dead was too easy. More people should have died..

Also think Bronn scenes is pretty horrible and meaningless this season.

Speculations:
Spoiler: ShowHide
I predicted before the season that Dany will kill Jon, but now I think it's more possible that it will be the other way around if anything. Jon didn't kill the NK, so what will his big moment be? He either becomes the king or gives the throne to Brann. That makes the most sense to me.

Dany will succeed in breaking the wheel, just not in the way we wanted her to do it


Robyn

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Reply #759 on: May 12, 2019, 03:41:54 PM
Btw, does it get uploaded on the HBO streaming service the same time it's showing on TV?


Drenk

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Reply #760 on: May 12, 2019, 03:42:57 PM
Yep, why didn't they kill the dragon in Episode 3? That's weird. They had an opportunity. It would have been better if he had really died in Episode 3 instead of dying like an after-thought with a weirdly overpowered weaponóbut maybe they're all living in the Matrix and Euron has the cheatcodes...

But I guess they needed it so we understand why Daenerys can't attack with her last dragon?
Ascension.


WorldForgot

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Reply #761 on: May 12, 2019, 04:02:39 PM
Yep, why didn't they kill the dragon in Episode 3? That's weird. They had an opportunity. It would have been better if he had really died in Episode 3 instead of dying like an after-thought with a weirdly overpowered weaponóbut maybe they're all living in the Matrix and Euron has the cheatcodes...

But I guess they needed it so we understand why Daenerys can't attack with her last dragon?

This iz most definitely something that will play out differently in the books. With either Euron's horn succeeding, and he brings Cersei a dragon, or inciting a different sort of ambush.


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #762 on: May 12, 2019, 05:45:53 PM
Btw, does it get uploaded on the HBO streaming service the same time it's showing on TV?

Yes. It should be available immediately on streaming services, 2 hours and 15 min from now.

Yep, why didn't they kill the dragon in Episode 3? That's weird. They had an opportunity. It would have been better if he had really died in Episode 3 instead of dying like an after-thought with a weirdly overpowered weaponóbut maybe they're all living in the Matrix and Euron has the cheatcodes...

But I guess they needed it so we understand why Daenerys can't attack with her last dragon?

Daenerys needs to be more angry at the living. I think this works. She feels like she just keeps losing everyone she loves, she just keeps making these enormous personal sacrifices, and yet she can feel the support for her evaporating... with her dreams. That might drive a person to rage.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Robyn

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Reply #763 on: May 12, 2019, 06:03:56 PM
Daenerys needs to be more angry at the living. I think this works. She feels like she just keeps losing everyone she loves, she just keeps making these enormous personal sacrifices, and yet she can feel the support for her evaporating... with her dreams. That might drive a person to rage.

That's a good point, but you didn't think it was silly how it happened, that Euron just came out of nowhere to destroy them?


Jeremy Blackman

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Reply #764 on: May 12, 2019, 07:05:47 PM
I know that didn't work for a ton of people, but it was actually really effective for me. The loss is sudden, brutal, and complete. I kind of felt Dany's shock in that moment.

Does it make sense that Euron would be able to hide those ships from her aerial view? Probably not.
"Hunger is the purest sin"