XIXAX Film Forum


Game of Thrones (spoilers)

diggler · 836 · 112387

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Robyn

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 1530
Reply #630 on: March 16, 2019, 02:30:29 PM
I'm all for unhappy endings, but with this I would love to see the opposite. This world is going to hell, so it would nice with some optimism...


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #631 on: March 19, 2019, 01:06:45 AM
Finished Season 6. I can pretty confidently say it's not the best season after all. That should probably go to Season 4 or 7... or maybe 8. Unfortunately Season 6 simply does not stand out much except for the final 2 episodes and "The Door."

Which is not to say I'm short on superlatives. "The Winds of Winter" has got to be the best episode of the series. I can't even imagine anything in the final season surpassing it. The opening 16 minutes is still absolutely jaw-dropping (16 straight minutes!), and the whole episode is just filled with beauty and lovingly-crafted touches and perfect lighting and truly inspired shots. Sapochnik set a bar that seems almost impossible to reach (except perhaps by himself in Season 8). The difference between Sapochnik's episodes and 604 for example is... stark.

"The Battle of the Bastards" is among the best too, of course. The opening in Meereen and the battle are both just incredible. There are some awkward scenes that hold it back, though. Including the pre-war stuff with Sansa.

Can we account for Sansa keeping that secret? I can speculate that she stayed silent out of shame (didn't want Jon to know she was seeking Littlefinger's help) or resentment (she seems to keep the secret because Jon didn't ask for her help or advice). But no, I can't really account for it, because those reasons are not good enough. It was an outright mistake. Possibly one of her dumbest mistakes ever. Sansa calls it exactly that in the next episode and apologizes. Jon follows up saying they need to trust each other suggesting the writers believe Sansa kept that secret because she didn't trust Jon to do the right thing with that information.

But my goodness, Sapochnik knows how to get the best performances out of Sophie Turner. She is incredible at the end of "Bastards" and actually just as good in "Winds."
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Fernando

  • satan's little helper
  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 2326
Reply #632 on: March 19, 2019, 03:08:38 PM
Which is not to say I'm short on superlatives. "The Winds of Winter" has got to be the best episode of the series. I can't even imagine anything in the final season surpassing it. The opening 16 minutes is still absolutely jaw-dropping (16 straight minutes!), and the whole episode is just filled with beauty and lovingly-crafted touches and perfect lighting and truly inspired shots. Sapochnik set a bar that seems almost impossible to reach (except perhaps by himself in Season 8). The difference between Sapochnik's episodes and 604 for example is... stark.

But my goodness, Sapochnik knows how to get the best performances out of Sophie Turner. She is incredible at the end of "Bastards" and actually just as good in "Winds."

Completely agree, winds is just incredible, every scene with Cersei or that she was involved in was just perfect, those 16 minutes you mentioned are up until the sept explodes and Cersei sips her wine, I would include her meeting with Septa Unella and her confession 'under the right circumstances', her vengeance was perfect, it's very Walter White-ish because even if her victory was massive it came with a terrible price with Tommen's suicide.

The other stand out scene for me is Arya killing Frey.


So, as far as predictions I think this could happen:


- I would bet money Sansa lives
- Pretty sure Jon dies heroically and Arya probably too
- Bran, I have no clue what will happen with him, but I agree that he will warg into a dragon to save the day
- Cersei will have one last massive victory, only to lose everything later
- Jamie, difficult to predict, he can't properly fight so in a battle he has a huge disadvantage, on the other hand someone could save him
- Dany will seat at the iron throne, it'll be bittersweet besause she'll lose Jon and probably Jorah
- Melisandre, I wish to see her do something incredible, fingers crossed.



Robyn

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 1530
Reply #633 on: March 21, 2019, 04:30:32 PM
The Door was even better then I remembered it. had me crying like a child just now, lol

We are all talking about who will live and end up on the throne, but I'm thinking we'll get at least a couple of more "holy shit"-payoffs and twists in the end. the night king will probably talk , and we'll learn about his motives. Could it be one of the bigger holy shit-moments in the show? Also there has to be something more to Bran's time traveling. I mean, in the end of The Door the three eyed raven tells him that he's not ready yet. he has to fuck it up somehow, right? the mad king's "burn them all"-theory is fun and make a lot of sense.


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #634 on: March 21, 2019, 05:14:02 PM
I am very excited for time travel and butterfly effects and time loops. I want it. But I'm pretending it won't happen because I don't want to be disappointed.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Lottery

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 1000
Reply #635 on: March 22, 2019, 09:21:15 PM
Watch out for spoilers, I've heard some spoilers have been popping up around the net.

I've been flicking through the books again and rewatching some episodes. I still think the show massively declined after the end of season 4 but I'm still excited for this final season. I can't decide if I like season 5 or 7 least. As mentioned earlier, 6 is largely elevated by some really exciting episodes. 

As much as I dislike where some of the later episodes went, I actually wish D&D rejected GRRM's outline and went where their story wants to take them. Make the strongest work they can make based on the characters they've developed (show Jon isn't book Jon etc). They've diverged heavily enough from the story, why not make it an entirely separate work with its own ending?

I've only been into the books for a little while so I haven't endured the wait hardcore fans have but I'm keeping faith, really hoping that GRRM will get those books out. If he doesn't mess it up, The Winds of Winter has the potential to be the best work in the entire franchise. The set-ups, the plot threads, cliffhangers are pretty crazy; no wonder serious fans are upset with the delays.
For those who have liked the show and want a bit more, I do recommend the books. It's hugely entertaining with a lot of depth. The first 3 books are quick page turners with the later books becoming dense and character-heavy (in a good way).
The show is missing some really cool characters and plotlines, which is understandable but it's unfortunate we never got to see how the show would approach them. I'm certain at least one major character/plotline has been absorbed into 2 or 3 main characters.

BOOK SPOILERS

Spoiler: ShowHide
On this read, the later chapters on the wall have been a real favourite of mine. Due to the presence of the Alys Karstark storyline, Stannis's knights and the wildlings, they're a lot less desolate than the Wall scenes in the show but just as stressful as you really get an understanding of Jon's struggle to work through the politics so he can focus on the WW. What's cool about this part of the story is that Jon is (unknowingly) more or less King of the Wall- he is the leader of the NW and he has thousands of Wildlings sworn to him. This makes me think (and hope) that Jon doesn't become KitN but a King of Winter/Mance Rayder type figure while Sansa/Bran/Rickon become the master of the North/Winterfell. Also, I've become less enthusiastic about the inevitable Jon/Dany pairing, so best have him with the wildling Princess Val instead, which has been hinted at in the book. Of course, D&D have been following GRRM's key plot points so I won't get my hopes up.


We won't get a happy ending or a miserable ending but the bittersweet one that has been mentioned before. Which I believe is suitable for a series like this. A lot of fan favourites will die as expected. Judging by the director list, episodes 3 and 5 will be the huge ginormous action episodes with episode six being the coda/epilogue.

Other unadventurous, bordering on useless, predictions:
At least 3 out of 5 main/highest paid characters will die. I can't see Cersei or Jaime surviving, nor can I see both Jon and Dany surviving.
Bran will be the key to winning (time travel or not, I hope it doesn't devolve into Jon 1v1 the night king).
King's Landing will be destroyed.
Sam and Gilly live.
Sansa lives.


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #636 on: March 31, 2019, 02:23:28 AM
Season 7 is pretty good so far...

It's definitely easier to catch the time jumps on rewatch. There are a lot of them. For example, Cersei slyly reveals to Jaime that she's made a new ally cut to Euron's fleet arriving. Jaime and Cersei are outside watching them arrive. Clearly, a lot of time has probably passed. But we were not accustomed to seeing time jumps in the same location.

I will say that particular time jump is flawed, though. It would have us believe that Cersei did not reveal who the new ally was until they arrived. "Greyjoys? You invited the Greyjoys to King's Landing?" Jaime exclaims.

Ep 1 is good (though worryingly similar to the S6 baseline). Ep 2 continues the table-setting with the added benefit of several spectacular scenes, including Euron's naval combat and Sam's greyscale procedure (which is actually amazing).

Episode 3, "The Queen's Justice," is where the season really begins to shine. Jon's arrival at Dragonstone is just pitch-perfect. Every scene. The degree of difficulty there is significant, and they really pulled it off. Cersei's scene with Ellaria in the dungeon is breathtaking; a worthy successor to the Septa Unella scene. This episode is so magnificently written and performed. Dany and Jon's very first one-on-one scene turns to a surprisingly heartfelt place and definitely shows early signs of a developing chemistry. Watch the last thing Dany does in that scene, actually as Jon walks away, she looks at him almost girlishly, like "hmm he's very interesting..." Kinda funny.

Then we get Olenna's hardcore goodbye. We never see her body, so I'm sure there are some Olenna truthers out there. Would she have an antidote? We never saw the Blackfish's body, either in fact our knowledge of his death was extremely second-hand. That's at least two major characters deaths that happen off-screen in the last couple seasons.

Random note Melisandre tells Varys: "No, I will return, dear spider, one last time [to Westeros]. I have to die in this strange country, just like you." Followed by a very ominous music cue. But really, what does that tell us? Varys dies in Westeros? Okay, that could be 30 years from now for all we know. But Melisandre's spooky charm works on Varys, just like it works on us. Is every red priestess required to exit a conversation with a frightening personal prophecy? They're dropping mics everywhere they go.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #637 on: April 02, 2019, 01:21:24 AM
704 - The Spoils of War. A tight episode that is fully character-driven and gets through a lot of exposition in a natural way. Impressive. And fun. And THEN it finishes with Daenerys's attack on the caravan. I have to say, I believe this is the most beautifully crafted battle scene in the show's run so far. I think it edges out Battle of the Bastards.

705 - Eastwatch. The streak continues. Great stuff. The lesser episodes of Season 6 felt at times like they were working their way through plot, but in Season 7 you can feel the writers relishing every scene and every moment. It's just plain FUN.

Jon meeting Drogon for the first time, up close, is an awe-inspiring and strangely moving scene. And good lord, that dragon CGI is next-level. Totally and utterly convincing. The best they've ever done.

Gendry's scenes got me choked up. I actually kinda wouldn't mind if he ended up on the throne.

Daenerys is crushing on Jon so hard right now. When he leaves for Eastwatch, she basically says "I like you" and bats her eyelashes at him. Aggressively.

When Arya observes Sansa being grilled, and the bannermen are kind of trash-talking Jon, Arya looks on and eagerly waits to see how Sansa responds. Sansa's response is good she steers them back toward loyalty to Jon. We see Arya's reaction; she visibly breathes a sigh of relief. She approves, it seems. Sansa has kind of passed her test already. But then a switch happens. In the very next scene, Arya's opinion of Sansa has precipitously soured. Since it's too early for them to be playing Littlefinger, I think Arya might be testing Sansa here and playing games with her.

706 - Beyond The Wall. I think you could credibly say that Arya is still toying with Sansa and seeing how she responds to pressure. She's getting the measure of Sansa, and needlessly antagonizing her, and sort of training her, much like the waif did to Arya. Maybe this comparison is a stretch, but I see it. I do think Arya's feeling of moral superiority is real, and I think we do see it genuinely shattered a bit when Sansa credibly challenges her.

Tyrion's argumentative scene with Daenerys is a misfire. One of the few actual misfires of this season, I'd argue. It starts out fine, but Tyrion's circular rhetoric is so clunky that it crumbles and turns into mush. Why do they have to speak with such formal language, like they're in a council meeting and every word is being recorded? These are two people who have already been through a lot together, and no one else is in the room. Can't they just TALK? Are they really still so uncomfortable with each other? This is truly nonsense, and I hope it doesn't continue in Season 8.

Caveat/counterpoint: Dany's coldness with Tyrion is a useful contrast to her warmth with Jon.

For some actual heart-to-heart real talk that is still well-spoken and full of meaning, see the Magnificent Seven as they embark on their quest.

They do a lot in this ep to establish that we won't need to kill the entire army of the dead to defeat them. Jon hypothesizes that if you kill a white walker, all the dead that specific white walker has turned will fall as well. This is pretty much immediately accepted as fact by the group, which is our cue to do the same. Beric then points to the night king and says "kill him, he turned them all." One single dragonglass-tipped arrow could win the whole thing.

When Sansa seeks advice from Littlefinger (red flag already btw) I am even more convinced that she's already playing him at this point (though probably NOT with Arya's cooperation yet). As I said when this aired, notice that Littlefinger gets zero new information from her in this meeting, but she gets loads of new information out of him. In particular, that he is scheming to take Arya out of the picture and would use Brienne to do it. Within the space of this scene, she plays up her fear of Arya to get him to that point. Sansa would of course react in horror to this outrageous and violent suggestion, but she goes cold. Watch the profile shot of her face. That expression to me says "dang, he actually went there." In the VERY next scene at Winterfell, Sansa sends Brienne away. She does so with absolutely no hesitation, clearly having no interest in enlisting Brienne protect her against Arya or whatnot. On the contrary, I believe she's sending Brienne away specifically to undermine Littlefinger's plan. And in this scene, Sansa seems 100% assured of her own safety. It's actually kind of remarkable.

I understand why Jon takes a while getting on the dragon that's Jon being Jon. But I still do not understand why Benjen suicides.

The boat scene with Jon and Dany ("my queen") is legitimately one of the BEST and most emotional scenes in Game of Thrones history. Top ten, easily. I don't know what kind of magic had to coalesce for it to be so perfect, but good God it certainly is. One of Emilia Clarke's finest moments.

I remember what a masterpiece the next episode is, so I think I can confidently say Season 7 > Season 6.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #638 on: April 02, 2019, 11:37:55 PM
707 - The Dragon and the Wolf

This blew my head right off, just as much as it did the first time I saw it. Wow. It's an episode almost completely devoid of "action" that manages to be more exciting than several "battle" episodes put together. There is not another episode of this show that is so generously filled with explosive character scenes, one after the other, executed perfectly. This is exactly the kind of episode that makes me say "we don't deserve this show."

Season 4 is probably the best season. Hard to dispute that. But Season 7 is the most soulful. And I won't hear otherwise. My gushing about Season 6 (when it aired) seems so naive now it's clear that they stepped it up significantly for 7. The show is absolutely on fire this season.

It fares even better on rewatch, too. The only time jump I even noticed was the one I described earlier (which happens in the imperfect Ep 1, best viewed as a warmup). The breakneck pace seems completely natural, too.

Sansa's indictment of Littlefinger is really interesting. It makes me wonder when the ruse began. Perhaps quite early. This is the giveaway "What's the worst reason you have for turning me against my sister? That's what you do, isn't it? That's what you've always done. Turn family against family, turn sister against sister [...] That's what you tried to do to us." If Sansa was smart, she would have caught on, at the very latest, in the scene that included his Brienne suggestion. What's unclear to me is when Arya got on the same page probably during the deleted scene with Bran.

In any case, Sansa and Arya's reconciliation atop Winterfell is somehow even more satisfying than Littlefinger's execution.

Jon and Daenerys's budding romance is super obvious on rewatch. They really give it four full episodes to develop (4 through 7). Daenerys simply does not interact like that with ANYONE else. Jon brings out a warmth from her. She bares her soul. It's really kind of intense stuff.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Fernando

  • satan's little helper
  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 2326
Reply #639 on: April 02, 2019, 11:38:44 PM
They do a lot in this ep to establish that we won't need to kill the entire army of the dead to defeat them. Jon hypothesizes that if you kill a white walker, all the dead that specific white walker has turned will fall as well. This is pretty much immediately accepted as fact by the group, which is our cue to do the same. Beric then points to the night king and says "kill him, he turned them all." One single dragonglass-tipped arrow could win the whole thing.

Yes, in a way it should be 'easy' to kill him, you instruct every single man able to shoot an arrow and throw thousands at him and he most certainly falls, only problem is he's riding in a fucking dragon, still I think the night king will fall, and then all the attention will go to fight Cersei, or so that's my guessing.


Robyn

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 1530
Reply #640 on: April 03, 2019, 01:12:05 PM


Spoiler: ShowHide
She pull it off so well...


Jeremy Blackman

  • Admin
  • *****
    • Posts: 12302
Reply #641 on: April 03, 2019, 02:49:58 PM
Oh man. Now I have to trust myself not to click that.

Maybe we should keep Season 8 spoilers out of the thread.
"Hunger is the purest sin"


Sleepless

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 2203
  • I told you I would eat you
Reply #642 on: April 03, 2019, 02:52:18 PM
It was an April Fools prank, and Jimmy's "acting" immediately gives it away.
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.


Drenk

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 2001

Drenk

  • The Master of Two Worlds
  • *****
    • Posts: 2001
Reply #644 on: April 14, 2019, 08:28:59 PM
That premiere is...not good. Halfway through...
The best ones were thin but atmospheric, this one is thin and vulgar. All the scenes are awkward.

SPOILERS

Jon riding the dragon, what we knew would happen, had such a weak execution...it looked like a bad romcom...with dragons...

Kit Harington is a bad actor and that's an issue now that he has to play with other characters. His scene with Arya was akward. Yeah, they've played together ten years ago...There's no chemistry between them. It's weird. I'm supposed to like the scene because it was expected? Just because of its outline?

Having all the characters at the same place is bad if they're just wandering around, waiting...

Was I the only one to notice makeup issues? Especially with Sansa.

I don't worry about episodes looking bad now, though. They're keeping all the money—and the best directors—for the end.

I liked Jaime seeing Brann, that was the first time I felt something: I don't understand why the episode had to end at the first interesting scene...

God. That was bad.

Ascension.