The Descendants

[polkablues]

Anybody seeen this yet? Going to see it tonight so i'll be back to discuss. Some folks on the interwebs are underwhelmed by the picture it seems but I'm not convinced.

It was a nice film. It rang emotionally true. Some of the themes regarding class and property are a little troubling, in the sense that I'm not sure the movie means what Alexander Payne thinks it means, but I admire the film anyway. Everyone acquits themselves nicely.

[Bethie]

All Alexander Payne films are merely "okay." The Descendants included.


cept for maybe Election.

[Pubrick]

Ha. Loving the mild backlash.

I wanna believe this guy is as good as everyone else wants to believe he is, but his films are just not that great.

Saw election again recently and it is just OK albeit with major flaws.
Schmidt sucks.
Sideways is almost ok-to-goodish-good. Almost.
Haven't seen his first one but it can't be that great.

Why is he so overrated? Without even seeing this yet (and I will) I am already thinking there is something not quite right about the premise of  these rich idiots in Hawaii having first world problems. I also want to support the guy cos he started his career really late and he's an inspiration for losers like me who probably won't make their first film until their mid thirties.

[Pozer]

I also want to support the guy cos he started his career really late and he's an inspiration for losers like me who probably won't make their first film until their mid thirties.

haha. youve mentioned this before. i think (and fear) the same way. dont you have an advantage being a down under since not a whole lot of greatness has surfaced from there? gete crackin, man...youre sposed to be the THEE next Aussie PKubrick!

[chere mill]

these rich idiots in Hawaii having first world problems.

exactly. these characters are spoiled, bland, sometimes downright nasty, and yet alexander payne asks us to sympathize with their petty problems. don't get me wrong. i have liked a few of payne's films, but i think the descendants is easily bottom of the barrel. it's essentially a sitcom sprinkled with forced dramatic moments reminiscent of something you'd see on lifetime channel. how many shots did we need of the warm sun hitting the beach with a strumming guitar soundtrack? what does alexander payne find so fascinating about these people? so many moments are clumsy and poorly conceived. the acclaim george clooney is getting for this performance is absurd. he has very little to work with under payne's poor writing. payne may have some genuine insight and cleverness left in him, but when he writes lines like "you just got served!" i am skeptical. i will await his next film, but frankly, just being an alexander payne film isn't enough for me anymore.

[©brad]

I also want to support the guy cos he started his career really late and he's an inspiration for losers like me who probably won't make their first film until their mid thirties.

It's amazing what people constitute as loserdom in filmmaking these days. Do people really subscribe to this notion that if you don't make your Citizen Kane two years out of the womb you've already failed? If you make a film in your mid-30s (and I'm sure you will) then you're doing great. PTA's crazy career is the exception not the rule.

[Ostrich Riding Cowboy]

The Descendants = Kramer vs. Kramer + Hawai'i - narrative texture

[socketlevel]

I don't understand the hate for this film from some of you guys. I found the characters pretty rich and enjoyed the relationships (especially clooney with the surfer dude).

Election was great when it came out, doesn't hold up as well but still enjoy it.
I think Schmidt is my least favorite, with some beautiful moments.
Sideways was fun with flaws.
His segment in Paris, je t'aime was the best of the shorts.

I do agree he is overrated, almost all of his films are nominated and shouldn't be, but i've never wanted my money back after leaving the theatre.

[72teeth]

Haven't seen his first one but it can't be that great.

How'd i miss this?
You gotta see this one P, it's probably his best and might even make you look at his other works in a slightly different light.

I always draw lines from Payne to Ashby and i think Ruth is why. Most of their "comedies" arent comedies, but are funny because drama is funny. Most (some?) of their movies are also such true, unapologetic character portraits that it's refreshing to see such flawed, unheroic antagonsts being acknowledged by filmmakers so honestly. I feel About Schmidt is pretty Ashb-ian too but i had to really grow up before i could connect with it. When i was young, i thought it was dumb and slow but now i find it heartbreaking yet realistically optimistic.

Maybe i got some more growin up to do tho as i found The Descendants very dumb and slow.

...albeit with some very great female characters and performances. Much like Citizen Ruth.

anyway, See that movie, P, at least

[I am Schmi]

these rich idiots in Hawaii having first world problems.

exactly. these characters are spoiled, bland, sometimes downright nasty, and yet alexander payne asks us to sympathize with their petty problems.

The crazy thing is: we do. 

Or at least I did. And your mother/wife dying isn't a "petty problem". Neither is confronting her lover she had an affair with. I saw it awhile back, and although I probably wouldn't place it in my favorite 10 of the year, I still found myself enjoying it quite a bit.

[chere mill]

these rich idiots in Hawaii having first world problems.

exactly. these characters are spoiled, bland, sometimes downright nasty, and yet alexander payne asks us to sympathize with their petty problems.

The crazy thing is: we do. 

Or at least I did.

haha yes, it's best to speak only for yourself. not for the entire audience that will go see the movie.

Neither is confronting her lover she had an affair with.

it's funny because i found that to be one of the more poorly executed segments of the film.

SPOILERS.

there's a sequence toward the end of the film where judy greer, who plays the only character i had any sympathy for, is asking for forgiveness at the bed of george clooney's wife, and when she starts sobbing clooney immediately tries to shut her up and tells her to get out of the room. to me that perfectly sums up my feelings about the film. the situations may have the potential to be genuinely moving but payne can't wait to make a wisecrack and embarrass someone, even as sympathetic as judy greer's character. it struck me as unbelievably smug.

[Jeremy Blackman]

I haven't seen the movie, I'm not really an Alexander Payne fan, but I feel like "first world problem" stories need to be defended. They have a pretty rich and very long history. It's usually a practical thing; sometimes it's easier to deal with inner experience and metaphysical issues when your character's main concerns are not eating, paying the bills, finding a place to sleep, etc.

That said, it doesn't quite look like this movie aims that high. (Or does it?)

[polkablues]

The disconcerting thing about The Descendants isn't that it's a first-world problems movie, it's that it seems to actively acknowledge the deeper problems that exist outside the characters' periphery and then ignore them in favor of asking us to care about what a bunch of fat-asses in loud shirts decide to do with their billion-dollar inheritance.  This would be fine if that was the point the film was making, if it were commenting on their self-absorption in any sort of critical way, but it doesn't seem to be. 

[md]

The scene where Judy Greer's character walks in on GC at the hospital was perfectly in tone with the rest of the film and in fact one of the greatest attributes to Paynes writing and directing: his characters are unflinchingly real to the point of absurdity.  (Spoiler) Just when you think he is going to get too sentimental he finds away to absorb awkward realistic humor to the situations and characters.  We enter that scene with Greer's character hysterical and confused but knowing that she had to come to visit out of respect.  It meanders and twists to a point where we almost lose any sense of importance, but just when she's about to leave there's that last look she gives that reminds us that Payne is in full control of what he is doing.  It was one of the stand out scenes for me in the movie that shows Payne's decisiveness and concern for the absurd reality that happens in real life. 

[chere mill]

The scene where Judy Greer's character walks in on GC at the hospital was perfectly in tone with the rest of the film

oh, most definitely. the film does not lack consistency. the scene is just as cheap and condescending as the film around it.

i also don't think "awkward realistic humor" entirely justifies the film's approach. some of the scenes may very well be realistic, but there are many other factors to consider. payne can make a fine film when he has the right ingredients (compelling characters, witty dialogue, a sensitive approach to the material, etc.) but the descendants is a kind of pseudo-humanism. it's warmth is only on the surface. every emotion is predetermined so that you know what you should be feeling well before the moment comes. the complex issues in life, such as adultery, are treated with such simple-mindedness (people who commit adultery are shameful creeps and should be treated as such) that the movie loses any relevance. an example of this is the scene where clooney and his daughters (don't even get me started on how obnoxious they are) visits his wife's lover out of spite.

clooney gets to play the straight-laced potential widower at the center of the story while most everyone around him is either deeply eccentric, villainous, or cartoonish (e.g. his daughter's painfully unfunny stoner boyfriend). payne has his reasons for doing this. clooney becomes the object of your sympathy by default and the audience can enjoy feeling superior to everyone else. this approach makes the film so cheap and easy. if a film's characters are cardboard cutouts, the intelligent humor is virtually absent, and the emotions are poorly contrived, then you're stuck with just another movie about very wealthy white people who have the privilege and luxury to tear each other down. the situations may have the potential to be serious, but payne's approach is not.