Clerks II

[Pozer]

Either way, it's A Pile of Crap part 2.

[Jeremy Blackman]

If the "passion" title was ever funny/relevant/clever, it definitely isn't anymore.

[Pubrick]

If the "passion" title Kevin Smith was ever funny/relevant/clever, it definitely isn't anymore.

fixed.

[Jeremy Blackman]

I have a friend who likes Kevin Smith and wants to buy a Ford Focus.  

[ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ]

Clerks and Chasing Amy were all right, I felt.

One time I tried watching Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back when I wasn't with a large group of friends already laughing and/or stoned, and I found out that it isn't really that funny.

[Pwaybloe]

Uh oh.  Battlestations!

Prepare for "Kevin Smith Justifications", "Chasing Amy was ok", and the notorious "Did you hear what he said about Magnolia?"

[matt35mm]

It's not about justifications.  Although we all bash him, MOST can agree that he's made at least two good movies.  It's just clear that he's not making good ones anymore, hasn't been for a while now, and THIS movie doesn't look like it's going to change that streak.

[Gamblour.]

Clerks - funny idea, good acting for first timers, but very student filmish
Mallrats - Pointless ideas with some funny scenarios, emphasis on pointless. everything good is Jason Lee (damn I have not been keeping up with My Name is Earl)
Chasing Amy - ahh, a dramatic medium for dick/fart jokes, makes more 'mature' use of his humor, with compelling acting and characters.
Dogma - i think the religious story is interesting, but christ oh christ, it's kind of a big mess. who's he to be pious?
Jay and Silent Bob - Just bad, but it doesn't want to be good, so there's your out.

[Pwaybloe]

It's not about justifications.  Although we all bash him, MOST can agree that he's made at least two good movies...

Do you really feel that, though?  I'm not directly addressing you, but what's so much better in his two good movies.  And I'm assuming that we're talking about "Clerks" and "Chasing Amy."  Is it because they have less of Jay and Silent Bob?  Is that the deciding factor?

To me all of his movies are no different.  They have the same "thing" that rubs me the wrong way.  The most aggravating part is that I can't put my finger on the "thing."  

It's something about... ok, there are guys out there that really revel in their unpopularity.  They almost wear it as a badge.  And they're arrogant about it.  Let's take the classification of "nerds", because Kevin Smith really likes to use one of their subcategories: "comic book fanatics."  Ok, comic book fanatics have certain ingredients: goatees, backwards baseball caps, junk food, hockey jerseys, Converses, anime, collecting, paranoia, type A personality, Family Guy, D&D, year-round t-shirts,  kung-fu movies, Japan, community college, Star Wars, internet...

You stir these ingredients together, bake at 98 degrees, and cool around 22 years, you now have a character in a Kevin Smith movie.  Normally this "character" would be an outcast in American society, but in a Kevin Smith movie he is a composite.  His personality is romantisized, his arrogance is matter-of-fact, his sense of humor is glorified, his sex appeal is uncategorized.  In the real world, these would never exist in his shell, but not true in a Kevin Smith movie.  Smith's characters are myths: there is evidence that they do exist, but their is no evidence they have accomplished these tasks worthy of tall tales.  

The sense of humor is the worst part.  It seems fake, uninspired, crude, and more importantly... 180 degrees from mine.  

Some critics argue against Smith's writing skills, but that really comes with the territory.  It's much deeper than that... more inert.  This is the best he can do.  These characters are a reflection, but a cracked one.  

Am I coming through?  Am I chipping away at the "thing?"  I don't expect those that find Smith's movies remotely entertaing to understand what I'm talking about, but I do hope those that aren't fans get a glimpse of my grief.  

Consequently, I have unfortunately turned this into what I joked about earlier.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Clerks - funny idea, good acting for first timers, but very student filmish

I don't know, I felt like I was reading a screenplay. The dialogue is artificially rapid-fire and feels completely dead. It's probably funny on paper, though.

[matt35mm]

It's not about justifications.  Although we all bash him, MOST can agree that he's made at least two good movies...

Do you really feel that, though?  I'm not directly addressing you, but what's so much better in his two good movies.  And I'm assuming that we're talking about "Clerks" and "Chasing Amy."  Is it because they have less of Jay and Silent Bob?  Is that the deciding factor?

To me all of his movies are no different.  They have the same "thing" that rubs me the wrong way.  The most aggravating part is that I can't put my finger on the "thing."  

It's something about... ok, there are guys out there that really revel in their unpopularity.  They almost wear it as a badge.  And they're arrogant about it.  Let's take the classification of "nerds", because Kevin Smith really likes to use one of their subcategories: "comic book fanatics."  Ok, comic book fanatics have certain ingredients: goatees, backwards baseball caps, junk food, hockey jerseys, Converses, anime, collecting, paranoia, type A personality, Family Guy, D&D, year-round t-shirts,  kung-fu movies, Japan, community college, Star Wars, internet...

You stir these ingredients together, bake at 98 degrees, and cool around 22 years, you now have a character in a Kevin Smith movie.  Normally this "character" would be an outcast in American society, but in a Kevin Smith movie he is a composite.  His personality is romantisized, his arrogance is matter-of-fact, his sense of humor is glorified, his sex appeal is uncategorized.  In the real world, these would never exist in his shell, but not true in a Kevin Smith movie.  Smith's characters are myths: there is evidence that they do exist, but their is no evidence they have accomplished these tasks worthy of tall tales.  

The sense of humor is the worst part.  It seems fake, uninspired, crude, and more importantly... 180 degrees from mine.  

Some critics argue against Smith's writing skills, but that really comes with the territory.  It's much deeper than that... more inert.  This is the best he can do.  These characters are a reflection, but a cracked one.  

Am I coming through?  Am I chipping away at the "thing?"  I don't expect those that find Smith's movies remotely entertaing to understand what I'm talking about, but I do hope those that aren't fans get a glimpse of my grief.  

Consequently, I have unfortunately turned this into what I joked about earlier.

I know what the "thing" is that you're talking about.  I can enjoy it on a certain level; it doesn't piss me off as much as it does you.  But there are certain things that do piss me off similarly, and so I sympathize.

Less Jay and Silent Bob is not the deciding factor in what makes Clerks and Chasing Amy good to me.  It's just simply that they entertained me... I enjoyed them.  That said, no, they can't hold up to any severe criticism, but they succeed as pieces of entertainment (to me, not to you).  Smith's other films do not.  Although I also liked Dogma (even though I agree that it's a mess.  But one that entertained me enough).

That said, I have to admit that I don't really find him to be that funny.  Even though those movies entertained me, I guess I never really laughed out loud, now that I think about it.

[ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ]

It was said best in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back "Jay and Silent Bob work in small doses, if at all."

Kevin Smith films rarely leave me thinking anything.  Dogma was a joke.  It was an endeavor for a man who based his movie on the Cliffnotes of the Cliffnotes of the Bible.  I know it's a comedy, and I don't expect someone to research something to death so that we're almost overwhelmed by the amount of information being presented to us.  I know it was intended to lay down some jokes, but it just came across as a mess to me.  

Kevin Smith's movies always felt like the movies that friends in Junior High make with their dad's camera.  Just a bunch of dirty jokes, inside jokes, the same people playing the same roles, but with different names.  I liked Clerks because it had a student film feel, and wondered how he'd progress as a filmmaker.  I also find myself laughing at a few of the ideas throughout it (The Personal Politics of Construction Workers, The pregame Gatorade discussion, and the general idea of the movie).  Chasing Amy did show growth (then again, pretty much anything's growth from Mallrats).  I really liked what a dirty, somewhat taboo subject it was, and it addressed it in a very brash fashion.

I tried to like Mallrats, only to find out it was aiming for his lowest, worst jokes (that is until Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back).  Dogma was OK, but nothing to really remember and recommend to friends.  Then Jay and Silent Bob which was Kevin Smith masturbating through a camera.

Dare I address Jersey Girl? No.  Because I didn't see it, and I don't really plan on it.  I might see Clerks 2, if a bunch of friends go and it's early in the day so I don't have to pay as much, but Kevin Smith's career was a quick tailspin downward as we found out that he showed some potential with Clerks and decided to go away from the writing and focus more on second rate Z-grade comedy jokes.

I'm sure he made Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back as a premonition to safeguard himself from being blasted online.  "If I make the movie about making a shitty movie and getting harassed online, it'll show the ultimate struggle I've been through trying to please my audience."

I acknowledge that he's doing what he wants instead of what is totally expected of him (Most Kevin Smith fans I know cite Jersey Girl as horrible) but I can also see him doing things that he knows are failsafe like Clerks 2.

He makes Clerks, fucks up with Mallrats, he makes Chasing Amy, fucks up with Dogma, he fucks up with Jay and Silent Bob, he waaay fucks up with Jersey Girl.  He would have to hope that titling this The Passion of the Clerks may confuse some ticket buyers and trick them into giving him more money.

[JG]

I'm embarassed that i used to be a Kevin Smith fan.  I was young, immature, and thought Kevin Smith was "smart."  

well, i grew up.  i still think i like clerks, but i haven't seen in it 2-3 years.

[modage]

don't be embarrassed.  everybody used to like kevin smith.  some people still do.

[The Perineum Falcon]

I never did.