Juno

[Stefen]

I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that GW is the superior flick. While Juno may get the coin, GW get's the respect.

Juno to me reminds me of movies like Napoleon Dynamite. The type of movies where your average jerkoff can watch it and feel intelligent and indie. Like they're part of the cool club who "gets" weird and quirky movies. Movies like Juno are made for people like Juno.

[polkablues]

Juno to me reminds me of movies like Napoleon Dynamite. The type of movies where your average jerkoff can watch it and feel intelligent and indie. Like they're part of the cool club who "gets" weird and quirky movies. Movies like Juno are made for people like Juno.

As opposed to all the people who feel like they're part of the cool club by taking part in the backlash against movies like Juno.  People can enjoy this movie and be invested in the characters without it being some sort of statement on their hipsterism.  Sometimes it's okay to just like something.

[pete]

I actually didn't care for Ghost World at all.  It was easy for me to overlook something like Juno's coolness, 'cause it was a good story with a good point of view and even a good twist.  Ghost World though, rested on the heroine's coolness.  It was all about how no one understood her - her deeper fears for sure, but they also gave her superficial differences against the rest of the World a lot of play.  And I just didn't give a shit.

[Gold Trumpet]

I actually didn't care for Ghost World at all.  It was easy for me to overlook something like Juno's coolness, 'cause it was a good story with a good point of view and even a good twist.  Ghost World though, rested on the heroine's coolness.  It was all about how no one understood her - her deeper fears for sure, but they also gave her superficial differences against the rest of the World a lot of play.  And I just didn't give a shit.

I imagine you just didn't give a shit. What Ghost World did with Enid was set up her personality at the beginning and then juxtapose her character against Steve Buscemi's. She understood herself to be the nihilist and depressive, but Buscemi's deeper antagonisms challenged her to find some hope in life. Her developed positivism rubbed off on him and both characters developed through out the story. The characters meant to do that for Juno is in Garner and Batemen, but I'm not sure what they change in her. The only thing they seem to do for her is challenge her resolve in giving up the child, but there is little character development for Juno. A few scenes show her newfound happiness with Cera's character, but it's a complete turn around and not a progression. A light switch was turned on for her to all of a sudden become nice and if the movie is truly realistic, I'd imagine Juno's character was bi-polar. Of course the film doesn't imply that but the turn around can't be taken serious.

[pete]

I saw that so differently.  Juno was afraid of being alone and pregnant but sometimes when people opened themselves to her, she'd consider them not genuine, or somehow signs of her own weakness.  I didn't think the couple was supposed to transform her, they were just part of her tiny circle.  It just seemed like, whatever justification people use in this arbitrary ghost world vs. juno argument, in the end it really rested on which character was cooler.  and again, as someone with only passing knowledge of the names dropped in these movies, I found Juno to be a bit more enjoyable because her coolness was a totally superficial branding, whereas Ghost World was happily drenching itself in its coolness.  So while I saw that turn between Enid and the old dude too, I couldn't root for it or identify with it much, because so much of that relationship was imbued and developed through the characters' tastes in things.

[Redlum]

Most of Enid's quirkiness/coolness/what-have-you-ness, stemmed from a disenchantment with everything around her. Her character had a reason for the sassy dialogue and outlook whereas Juno's character traits seemed more self-serving to the film. I'm not saying that a characters identity can't come soley from within but I found seeing Enid struggle with her identity more interesting than a character who seemed unnaturally sure of herself for someone so young. Juno is presented with circumstances and people that make her question herself and the world around her but eventually only come to reinforce her sense of self. Enid is eventually overpowered by the banality of everything around her. They are both only young but Enid's struggle seemed truer to me.

In both instances the characters are somewhat overpowered; by directorial style in Ghost World and dialogue in Juno. Having said that, I think the films identity is more important to me than the characters. With that in mind, Ghost World ultimately succeeds in providing an ending which is both more pertinent and poignant compared to Juno's; which never quite solves the construction of its central character enough for me to understand her in a meaningful way. In some ways the ending are different sides of the same coin but Ghost World feels like it earned its more.

[Kal]

I think after all the hype and amazing trailer my expectations for this were too high. Or maybe the film is not thaaaat great.

I liked it, and Ellen Page was amazing. Michael Cera was brilliant too, but he doesnt get much to do. It was good, but I guess I was expecting too much.

[bonanzataz]

so, my mom was watching oprah and apparently diablo cody was on promoting this movie and for some reason she had her parents in tow. diablo's parents kept calling her "brooke... oh, sorry, diaaaablo."

despite my annoyances with the over-written and over-directed bits (i HATE all of her little observances accompanied by quirky shots of what she's thinking, bleh) i liked this movie. how i feel about the movie is how i might theoretically think about diablo cody if i knew anything about her. it's like, brooke might be an alright person, but the fact that she feels like she needs the flash out of a name like diablo is annoying. that extra bit of "glitz" kills you, b/c it doesn't feel genuine, it feels like you're trying SO hard to be brilliantly unique (i'm reading her wikipedia page. she was quoted as saying she calls herself diablo b/c brooke is "just so tedious." ugh, what a cunt.) (back to ghost world for a second. that movie is better b/c it addresses this flaw in its main character. you're never supposed to think enid is SO COOL. she's a little bit of a loser who cares a lot what people are thinking of her coolness, whereas in juno, you're just supposed to accept that she's cool and different). i've known girls that did sex shit like diaaaablo did. i don't think they really needed the money that bad, i think they did it b/c they wanted attention. diaaablo did it so she could write a fucking blog and get published. yeah, real fucking noble... whatever, at least half of this movie is pretty deece. it's like that iggy pop album, lust for life, where half of it is really awesome but the other half just kind of feels like it was made for the masses, you know? and it's not awful, but it's not a masterpiece like david bowie's station to station. man, iggy's great. sometimes i like to put his music on and put the tv on mute when i'm watching herschell gordon lewis's blood feast. then i like to jerk off using my shit as lube, b/c no part of me should be considered "waste." i mean, god, how presumptuous. look at me look at me i'm the little engine that could!

[pete]

thread won.

[Stefen]

Diablow was only a stripper for a week. And three of her five shifts she served drinks.

[cinemanarchist]

The Moldy Peaches are reuniting to play "The View" this week (Monday, I think.) This film just keeps sucking mildly talented people further and further down the shitter of self-respect.

[cinemanarchist]

Diablo/Brooke was on Letterman last night and proceeded to ruin the ending of TWBB!! I am not going to go into spoiler territory here but she was talking about how much she had changed since she moved to Hollywood (oh my how I lover her self-deprecation) and she likened herself to Daniel Plainview and said she now...well basically the end of TWBB is what she now does for fun. When she said this my eyes grew wide and my pure hatred of her grew ten fold. Why must everything about her be terrible?

[Gamblour.]

So I watched that interview along with one of Ellen Page, and it's really striking how much more charm and class Page exudes (all while talking about a whorehouse!), while Cody just kinda bores me. The shock value she goes for is boring.

I probably sound like a flip-flopper compared to early posts about the film and Cody, but what can I say? The second viewing wasn't as good, and I've actually paid attention to Cody and her blog (equally boring).

[Chest Rockwell]

It's definitely the new Little Miss. Some good performances (I have to admit, Ellen Page is quite likable) in an overly hipster/pretentious movie. I enjoy these movies enough when I'm actually sitting there watching it, but upon second viewings or any sort of scrutinization afterwards the seams unfold.

As some have said, the character shows little development or humanity. We're just supposed to assume she's too cool for everyone else. Meanwhile Zwigoff's Enid isn't someone we can completely identify with, as she's just too aloof, which becomes her flaw in the "real" world; Coppola made some real characters that are likable but out of their element in LIT; and Gondry/Kauffman created deeply flawed but still identifiable characters in Eternal sunshine (I cite these as "early indie favorites"). I would think that situation would change everything for her, but at the end everything is hunky-dory, like it never happened. And everyone is wacky just for the hell of it.

Being in college, basically all of my friends are in love with the movie. I've been having to bite my lip every time it comes up, as I don't want to be that guy that's ALWAYS pissing on everyone else's taste. It's an enjoyable viewing and not much else. Definitely not top 5 or Best Picture nominee material.

[Gamblour.]

Being in college, basically all of my friends are in love with the movie. I've been having to bite my lip every time it comes up, as I don't want to be that guy that's ALWAYS pissing on everyone else's taste.

Yeah, once a teacher asked me if I hated everything because I didn't like a couple of movies he talked about. I hate that people ask me about my opinion, but then scream if I didn't like something they liked.