Oldboy.

[cron]

has anyone seen this movie?  the entities from aintitcool  are all flabbergasted with this and i'm curious.

[Weak2ndAct]

I am dying to see this film, along with Park's last film, 'Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance.'  I've heard nothing but great things about both.  I saw his first film, JSA (Joint Security Area), which is really wonderful-- the only drawback being bad english accents by some of the leads.  Otherwise, a great film about friendship and the dicey relations between N. and S. Korea.

[cron]

and speaking of asian movies that have "boy" in their titles, i think this year (at least in japan)   Steamboy will be released.  from the creator of Akira.

[samsong]

Park Chan Woo is Korea's David Fincher.  His films are very stylized and dark, cynical as hell and heavy (in tone, not theme).  Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, I'm still not sure on.  I blind bought the DVD and was both amazed and disappointed, especially after all the ridiculous hype from Harry.  He knows how to kill a movie.  Anyway, there's a cheap Chinese region 0 DVD available.. i suggest going with that one, since the special features on the Korean DVD aren't subtitled and will serve little purpose.. I'm Korean, so... yea.  Don't speak it... ask my parents for translations  

The Oldboy trailer/music video makes it look amazing... the actor is one of my favorites.

If you're interested in Korean cinema, I highly recommend Lee Chang Dong's Oasis.  Easily one of the best films of the 2000's and I can't stand Korean movies.  Oasis is responsible for my desire to search through what is mostly filth (Korean movies, that is) to find rare gems such as Oasis... a beautiful, beautiful movie.

you can find these titles at www.yesasia.com no sales tax and free shipping for purchases above $39.  A 2 disc special edition of Dogville is available through the site as well.. ordered mine last night.  And I'm not affiliated with them in any way.. just a satisfied customer.

[samsong]

The DVD came in the mail today, and I popped it in a couple hours ago.  My "review" is extremely generalized and vague so no one bitches about spoilers.  I guess I could just tag them but I'd prefer to avoid spoilers altogether when it comes to films that aren't already in the discussion phase (as should all of you....)

Having just gotten off of a Bresson binge (well, sort of... I watched Les Dames du Bois de Boulogne and Diary of a Country Priest in the same day) and seeing Samaria (Kim Ki Duk's extremely disturbing and strangely beautiful latest... it's very spare and poetic), Oldboy wasn't exactly an ideal "chaser."  Having said that, Oldboy proves that not all the money in mainstream cinema goes to horrible projects (this said despite the fact that it's a Korean movie...).  In fact, Oldboy is one of the year's best (I'm sure you didn't expect to hear that from anyone), bringing to cinema a manic vision of revenge that, in all honesty, isn't particularly deep or profound in its conclusions, but offers an experience so hypnotic and kinetically charged that I'm going to be revisiting it many times throughout the year (I bought the DVD).

This was my second Chan Woo Park film -- the first being Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance -- and I can gladly report that Park shows signs of improvement with his second film in what is to be a trilogy about revenge; Oldboy is more realized, more entertaining, and executed much better than Sympathy for Mr Vengeance.  Choi Min Sik -- who I'm convinced is one of the best actors working today, anywhere -- carries the film with what I think is going to be among the top five performances by an actor this year; he's that good, trust me.  "Carries the film" usually implies that everything else is medicore or sucks, but that couldn't be farther from the truth when it comes to Oldboy.  It flaunts some of the most bravura filmmaking in recent years, joining Kill Bill and City of God as a kinetic, ultraviolent opus that will floor anybody that sees it.

It is, of course, not without its flaws.  Park tends to overdo a lot of things -- stretching reality a bit too far, milking his story/characters a bit too much, throwing in one or two too many twists, etc.  The "too much/manys" are definitely detrimental to the film.  Also the conclusion the film comes to needs too much explanation from its characters, something I really hate.  The film does an excellent job at conveying through images and sound but there's a point where it's all spoken... BAH.  The flaws are (sort of) overlookable, however, as they're minute compared to the experience Oldboy provides.  This is as "cool" as cinema gets... for now.  Most uber stylish films tend to overlook the emotional aspect of cinema, but this one provides a strangely poignant punch.  It is what it is, and for what it is, I love it.  As flawed and as "stylish!  hip!  cool!" (all adjectives i hate when associated with movies) as it is, I fucking love it.   I enjoyed this film quite a bit.

In terms of Korean cinema, this year, I'm partial to Kim Ki Duk's two films (Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall... and Spring and Samaria) and I still think Lee Chang Dong's Oasis is one of the greatest films ever made (I think it's making it's way through the U.S. right now... it's playing in LA pretty soon) but Oldboy isn't to be missed.

[Ghostboy]

How is the squid scene? Is it tough to watch?

P.S. Oasis is amazing.

[samsong]

How is the squid scene? Is it tough to watch?

The squid scene is pretty grotesque as one can imagine... let's just say it leaves nothing to the imagination... absolutely nothing.  It's hardly a reason not to watch the film, though  

P.S. Oasis is amazing.

I love you.  

[pete]

the squid thing was like 20 seconds long.  he just kinda popped it in his mouth, and I was like "yeeesss", so were the characters in the film, that's what's so cool about it.

I'm halfway through right now.  it's pretty cool so far.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP--a GROUP FIGHT DONE IN ONE TAKE?!?!  A choreographed fight between a dude with a hammer and about 20 dudes, in one long ass dolly shot?  This has got to be one of the best fight scenes filmmed.  Nobody threw any crazy moves, but to do all of that in one shot?

SPOILER

EDIT 2: whew, the film went WAY too far, in a lot of respects.  But mainly it just felt like the screenwriter was just like "I can do whatever the hell I want now" so the answers to a few mysteries ended up being pretty contrived.  I dunno, maybe I was just a pansy, unwilling to go that far with the plot twists.  it was well-made, but the ending was a disappointment.  mysteries sometimes fall into that bad habit, of the writer having too much "fun" (I dunno if that's the word, "power" perhaps?) after you've gone deep enough with the characters, the writer can just say or do anything in the end and you'll just have to accept it.  Vanilla Sky had a tiny bit of that.  this movie had a LOT of that.  devices like "hynposis" or "I knew you'd do that from the very beginning" are sometimes way too convenient.

[rustinglass]

the squid thing was like 20 seconds long.  he just kinda popped it in his mouth, and I was like "yeeesss", so were the characters in the film, that's what's so cool about it.

I'm halfway through right now.  it's pretty cool so far.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP--a GROUP FIGHT DONE IN ONE TAKE?!?!  A choreographed fight between a dude with a hammer and about 20 dudes, in one long ass dolly shot?  This has got to be one of the best fight scenes filmmed.  Nobody threw any crazy moves, but to do all of that in one shot?

Yeah, I saw about thirty seconds of that shot on Euronews during the festival and it blew my mind.

[samsong]

the squid thing was like 20 seconds long.  he just kinda popped it in his mouth, and I was like "yeeesss", so were the characters in the film, that's what's so cool about it.

I'm halfway through right now.  it's pretty cool so far.

EDIT: HOLY CRAP--a GROUP FIGHT DONE IN ONE TAKE?!?!  A choreographed fight between a dude with a hammer and about 20 dudes, in one long ass dolly shot?  This has got to be one of the best fight scenes filmmed.  Nobody threw any crazy moves, but to do all of that in one shot?

SPOILER

EDIT 2: whew, the film went WAY too far, in a lot of respects.  But mainly it just felt like the screenwriter was just like "I can do whatever the hell I want now" so the answers to a few mysteries ended up being pretty contrived.  I dunno, maybe I was just a pansy, unwilling to go that far with the plot twists.  it was well-made, but the ending was a disappointment.  mysteries sometimes fall into that bad habit, of the writer having too much "fun" (I dunno if that's the word, "power" perhaps?) after you've gone deep enough with the characters, the writer can just say or do anything in the end and you'll just have to accept it.  Vanilla Sky had a tiny bit of that.  this movie had a LOT of that.  devices like "hynposis" or "I knew you'd do that from the very beginning" are sometimes way too convenient.

The fight scene is what attracted me to the film in the first place next to the fact that Choi Min-Sik plays the lead.  There's a good portion of it in the "music video trailer" that aintitcool.com had.  

In terms of taking things too far, I think you make an accurate comparison to Vanilla Sky.  However, to say that Vanilla Sky's end is only a tiny bit contrived, forced, and absolutely ridiculous (as Oldboy 's is) is sort of stretching it... I'm guessing you liked Vanilla Sky.  If anything I think Vanilla Sky's ending was prolonged bullshit whereas Oldboy at least waited until the very end to fuck up.

After seeing it again Oldboy isn't very good as a whole.  Rather, what you get is an incredibly stylistic and very cool movie with individual scenes that are excellent but don't lend themselves to the film.  It's as if Park planned it as a series of vignettes and how cool each one will be rather than thinking of the film as a whole since the narrative thread is very weak, evidenced by the very poor ending.  Still, Oldboy is a pretty good movie; looks very good, has some must-see scenes, and features Choi Min-Sik's superb performance.  Definitely worth watching, just not as good as I or anyone else made it out to be thus far.  Calling it one of the best films of the year was taking it too far on my part.[/i]

[pete]

yeah I dunno what came over me to say vanilla sky's ending was only a little bit contrived.  I guess maybe it was because that was my favorite part of the whole film (the rest was pretty weak), but I guess liked it or not, it was pretty contrived.  but back to old boy.  I felt like it was way too "masculine" in a very Asian type of way, well except for when Choi does break down.  it's a cool twist--the prototypal mysterious badass is sooo mysterious that, not even himself knows what the hell is up with him.

[foray]

I watched this last night with a huge audience and can't stop thinking about it. It has scenes that won't leave your mind alone. Like the octopus scene - please, someone verify that was a real octopus?

I found the plot stretching itself too but soon began to regard the movie as I would a comic book/graphic novel. Loved the titles, especially when "old boy" comes on the screen and it's just the "d" (date) and "y" (year) ticking.

Is Choi Min Sik the same actor from Chihwahseon? I think his performance in Old Boy by far supercedes that one.

foray

[samsong]

Choi Min Sik is the actor from Chihwaseon, and though I absolutely loved his work in that film, his performance in Oldboy is definitely superior (in other words I agree with you).  

Scenes do brand themselves in the memory but I think as a whole it's a weak film, especially because of the end.  Even if regarded as a graphic novel or comic book -- which the movie's based on anyway, a graphic novel -- I still think it goes too far.  Besides I pretty much saw the twist coming about 1/3 into the movie and was hoping for the rest of the movie until that moment comes up that my prediction wasn't true.  Unfortunately I guessed right.

Stylistically it's a huge accomplishment but comes nowhere near the works of Kim Ki Duk (Spring, Summer, Winter, Fall... and Spring and Samaria) or Lee Chang Dong (Oasis).

[foray]

Oasis  

Didn't know Old Boy is from a graphic novel. Figures!

foray

[Weak2ndAct]

What a wonderful movie.  Right from the get-go, with a tie clenched in Oh Daesu's fist, and the music kicking up, I knew I was in for a treat.  My expectations were met and exceeded.  

Yes, the ending is a little long and explanitory, but it has one of the best F U twists I've seen in ages.  I didn't see it coming, perhaps I'm a chump, I dunno.

The best compliment I can give the movie is that I watched for a second time right after it ended.  I wanted to be sure the movie earned it's turns, and the few bits where I thought it dragged or was muddled, became even more clear and perfect.  And yes, the much-heralded fight scene is the bee's knees.

If you like the movie, the Starmax Region 3 dvd is a definite purchase.  The transfer is great, and the 2nd disc has a jukebox feature where you can listen to the score while watching outtakes, film clips, or pulsing images.  Sucks that there are no english subs on the documentary, but that's as far as my complaints will go.