The greatest New York movie ever?

[Ernie]

Out of the ones you listed there, I'm going to have to go with 25th Hour, I'll agree with you. It's all New York and nothing else. The whole thing takes place in New York and it feels like it belongs there, it's very cool to see that, it's very beautiful. Even the "fuck you" montage is beautiful to me, even with all it's audacity and anger and everything, it's still beautiful I think - like the shots of the kids most of all, and the time lapse shots too.

I also wanna mention Elf cause I don't think anybody else has yet. Yea, I think Favreau's love for NY really shows in there with the Ray's Pizza reference and Gimbels and all, I know not everybody might agree but I think it was a New York movie as much as it was a christmas movie....it's a great fucking movie too, just saw it yesterday. Zooey Deschanel....all that and she can sing too....wow. It's the last christmas classic I think I'll be seeing for awhile - unless Bad Santa is better than I think it is going to be anyways. It's one I'll want to revisit every year, it's the first New York christmas movie in a long time.

[Gold Trumpet]

Nothing in the movie suggested he had anger towards those people at all.

That's because he didn't, not really. He was just looking for a way to justify what has happened to him, when really its only his own fault.

And the cause of his outburst of anger, honest or not, was his frustation with what was happening to him in his life. Where was the feeling of that in the movie? The movie was too relaxed for his situation to be felt or or become tragic.

Stop it.  We're talking about how wonderful new york is.

if you wanna contribute to that discussion (again) go here

With all due respect, I'll keep my opinion coming on the 25th Hour here if people are willing to discuss for the sheer fact it is actually discussion, something that continues to get thinner here by the day. And really, what thread completely follows guide of the opening post?

[Pedro]

Nothing in the movie suggested he had anger towards those people at all.

That's because he didn't, not really. He was just looking for a way to justify what has happened to him, when really its only his own fault.

And the cause of his outburst of anger, honest or not, was his frustation with what was happening to him in his life. Where was the feeling of that in the movie? The movie was too relaxed for his situation to be felt or or become tragic.

Stop it.  We're talking about how wonderful new york is.

if you wanna contribute to that discussion (again) go here

With all due respect, I'll keep my opinion coming on the 25th Hour here if people are willing to discuss for the sheer fact it is actually discussion, something that continues to get thinner here by the day. And really, what thread completely follows guide of the opening post?

k

[Redlum]

And the cause of his outburst of anger, honest or not, was his frustation with what was happening to him in his life. Where was the feeling of that in the movie? The movie was too relaxed for his situation to be felt or or become tragic.

I think it's hard to understand the mindset of someone in his position, but I think the "relaxed" appraoch to his last 24 hours appeared that way because it was extremely reflective. I mean a lot of the information for the build up to his arrest is done in flashbacks as he sits on a bench looking accross the river, or just walking around with Doyle.

Also I think that it creeps up on him. The scene where his dad comes to pick him up is so gut wrenching because we as an audience, and perhaps Monty himself were quite happy to ignore the inevitable.

I just got the book, so I'm going take a look at what angle that takes. I read an interview with the author where he seemed surprised that people even questioned whether Monty goes to jail in the end.

Anyway, my favourite New York movie is When Harry Met Sally.

[Gold Trumpet]

I think it's hard to understand the mindset of someone in his position, but I think the "relaxed" appraoch to his last 24 hours appeared that way because it was extremely reflective. I mean a lot of the information for the build up to his arrest is done in flashbacks as he sits on a bench looking accross the river, or just walking around with Doyle.

But, is it all just to be reflective? I see two things that should be at struggle for Norton really felt: his struggle to accept his fate and his attempts to make some peace with himself and everyone around him. Its a delicate balance, but the film is too relaxed to convey the first feeling.

The loose narrative of long scene after long scene of him "hanging with the boys" is too intrusive to allow for a really good portrait of Norton's situation. He has three friends and the movie makes a point to acquire as much of their banal get togethers as possible. It is one thing to involve other characters, it is another thing to want to document every moment of them to the point it goes beyond a well constructed plot with higher goals.

[Banky]

The movie was too relaxed for his situation to be felt or or become tragic.

IT WASNT SUPPOSE TO BE TRAGIC!  The guys is a drug dealer.  The movie is about him and his friends coming to terms with what is about to happen.  It is relaxed because these peple have to deal with the fact that they know he deserves it.  It would be all emotional and "tragic" if he was framed or something along those lines.


seriously though Ghost Busters.

[Gold Trumpet]

The movie was too relaxed for his situation to be felt or or become tragic.

IT WASNT SUPPOSE TO BE TRAGIC!  The guys is a drug dealer.  The movie is about him and his friends coming to terms with what is about to happen.  It is relaxed because these peple have to deal with the fact that they know he deserves it.  It would be all emotional and "tragic" if he was framed or something along those lines.

Wasn't Norton betrayed by people in his own organization? Wasn't one of the main ideas is that he was trying to become legimitate but got fucked over before he really could? Tradegy is attempted because even when Norton learns who betrayed him and allowed to kill the man, he doesn't do it. He doesn't give into the accusations his girlfriend did it either. We are meant to care for this man because he has changed, but also understand his past faults. The whole idea is of caring for men who had done wrongs in the past and must come to grips with choices in their life. The portrayal in the film is too poignant not to ask to us to care for him.

[kotte]

I agree with everything ®edlum said (except the Harry met Sally thing )

A more tight and tense pace (or narrative) would have resulted in a thriller which it isn't. It's a drama, I agree it's tragic but it's not a tragedy, it's a tragic drama.

If nothing else, Barry Pepper blew me away. They all did but Pepper especially.

[Gold Trumpet]

A more tight and tense pace (or narrative) would have resulted in a thriller which it isn't. It's a drama, I agree it's tragic but it's not a tragedy, it's a tragic drama.

A thriller? You can't create a thriller just by changing the pace or tone of the narrative. You have to change the entire plot. I said the scenes were too loose, yes, but I never said it could be corrected with tempo change. It needs a better thought out story.

[kotte]

A more tight and tense pace (or narrative) would have resulted in a thriller which it isn't. It's a drama, I agree it's tragic but it's not a tragedy, it's a tragic drama.

A thriller? You can't create a thriller just by changing the pace or tone of the narrative. You have to change the entire plot. I said the scenes were too loose, yes, but I never said it could be corrected with tempo change. It needs a better thought out story.

Ok...pace doesn't change genre, I agree.

I think the story's great. I was afraid it was going to be too much of a thriller. I love that it's philosophically and beautifully slow.

I can hardly watch the film without longing for NYC so much that it aces.

[Redlum]

A more tight and tense pace (or narrative) would have resulted in a thriller which it isn't. It's a drama, I agree it's tragic but it's not a tragedy, it's a tragic drama.

A thriller? You can't create a thriller just by changing the pace or tone of the narrative. You have to change the entire plot. I said the scenes were too loose, yes, but I never said it could be corrected with tempo change. It needs a better thought out story.

I think there was potential to make this into a thriller by upping the pace but more importantly, giving the whole "who set him up" element more emphasis. I completely ignored that whole sub-plot whilst watching it anyway, mainly because Monty didnt really care that much and the fact that it had nothing to do with the theme of the film.

I don't think Monty trying to come clean was much of an issue either. It was just basic to the whole story that Monty was a good guy despite being a drug dealer, he didnt have a sudden change of heart and say "you know what this is wrong". He'd have still been dealing if he hadn't got caught, he said it himself - "I got greedy". So I don't think we are meant to care for him because he has changed. We like him from the very begginning of the film because he rescues the dog, not because he is struggling with guilt. If there's anyone who is feeling guilt its his dad, as it has been said, brillantly acted by Barry Pepper.

The portrayal in the film is too poignant not to ask to us to care for him.

What do you mean here, GT?

[Gold Trumpet]

A more tight and tense pace (or narrative) would have resulted in a thriller which it isn't. It's a drama, I agree it's tragic but it's not a tragedy, it's a tragic drama.

A thriller? You can't create a thriller just by changing the pace or tone of the narrative. You have to change the entire plot. I said the scenes were too loose, yes, but I never said it could be corrected with tempo change. It needs a better thought out story.

I think there was potential to make this into a thriller by upping the pace but more importantly, giving the whole "who set him up" element more emphasis. I completely ignored that whole sub-plot whilst watching it anyway, mainly because Monty didnt really care that much and the fact that it had nothing to do with the theme of the film.

I don't think Monty trying to come clean was much of an issue either. It was just basic to the whole story that Monty was a good guy despite being a drug dealer, he didnt have a sudden change of heart and say "you know what this is wrong". He'd have still been dealing if he hadn't got caught, he said it himself - "I got greedy". So I don't think we are meant to care for him because he has changed. We like him from the very begginning of the film because he rescues the dog, not because he is struggling with guilt. If there's anyone who is feeling guilt its his dad, as it has been said, brillantly acted by Barry Pepper.

That may be very true. I can accept it. Its been a while since I've seen the film anyways. But, you do make a point to show the audiences does care for him. Other characteristics is that he is honest about his life and thoughtful to his friends and girlfriend when about to lose it all. Things outside of the drug dealer role we are expected to get.

The portrayal in the film is too poignant not to ask to us to care for him.

What do you mean here, GT?

The film simply delves on many emotional parts of his life we may not expect of a portrait of a drug dealer. Thus, it sets a tone where it is ripe for us to care for him.

Must say, though, nice to be discussing again with you Redlum. Its been a while since The Royal Tennebaums one.

[Redlum]

Ah, I see what you mean. They don't show both sides of the coin, so to speak. This is definately a fair point. They don't give screen time to more unsavoury aspects of his job, or more importantly - bad things that he may have done that you'd more commonly associate with a dealer. The only time I can think they did this was the addict at the start of the film but that hardly reflected that poorly on Monty. But I guess these aspects of his job can be assumed, and are commented on in the conversation between his two friends.

This does lead me to wonder if I would have liked the film as much if my feelings towards Monty were as conflicted. I think I woud, I dont think my sympathy for Monty was clouding my appreciation of the film. Adding this element may have made the film more honest though and wouldn't have detracted too much from my sympathy for him. But all in all, I think this a small flaw in a very good film.

I agree GT, always enjoy shooting the shit about movies with you.

[BonBon85]

1. Taxi Driver
2. Woody Allen
3. 25th Hour

[SoNowThen]

1. Taxi Driver

Fucking exactly. Jeez. It's not even a question...