Wonderland

[soixante]

I saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible.  It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is.  One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way.  No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this.  This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room.  In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly.  That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.

Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights.  Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.  Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.

[NEON MERCURY]

I saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible.  It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is.  One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way.  No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this.  This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room.  In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly.  That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.

Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights.  Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.  

....yo!!,  playa.......i  gotta disagree.......remeber i ain't saying this is  a mastepiece or i don't think the film can be labeled as "bad".......judging from your agruements if i am understanding them correctly, so says.....that the film didn't capture the 1981 look or the disco/porn era as well as pta did.........but .....i don't think the film's intention was to do it like that.....it's all about the wonderland murders.....and seeing it from different sides.....(think stone's JFK).......but w/ the late 70''s early 80's background........this film shouldnt be comparee on par w/ boogie......b/c its totally different plot.......and theme/focus......

Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.

....thats too general or subjective of a statement.......you need to explain why......or rather how is it not art ........

[Sebastian Haff]

Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights.  Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.  Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.

This is truly a great observation.

As Oliver Stone has shown us, it's sometimes better for the true story to take a backseat to poetic license when you're making what's intended to be a work of fiction.

I can't wait to see Wonderland. Soixante's review, however, has dropped my hopes by several notches. Maybe I'll be surprised.

[soixante]

I saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible.  It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is.  One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way.  No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this.  This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room.  In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly.  That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.

Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights.  Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.  

....yo!!,  playa.......i  gotta disagree.......remeber i ain't saying this is  a mastepiece or i don't think the film can be labeled as "bad".......judging from your agruements if i am understanding them correctly, so says.....that the film didn't capture the 1981 look or the disco/porn era as well as pta did.........but .....i don't think the film's intention was to do it like that.....it's all about the wonderland murders.....and seeing it from different sides.....(think stone's JFK).......but w/ the late 70''s early 80's background........this film shouldnt be comparee on par w/ boogie......b/c its totally different plot.......and theme/focus......

Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.

....thats too general or subjective of a statement.......you need to explain why......or rather how is it not art ........

If you're going to set a movie in 1981, I better not get taken out of the movie when I see decor, hairstyles and/or clothing that ain't from 1981.  I remember 1981 vividly.  That sidekick detective, can't recall his name, with the long sideburns -- nobody, and I mean nobody, had that look in 1981.  If you made a movie about Prohibition in the 20's, would you have characters using Palm Pilots?  What makes Boogie Nights awesome, among many reasons, is its attention to detail.  For example, the scene with Alfred Molina, and "Sister Christian" plays.  Wow, talk about the perfect late 83 - early 84 song.  Then "99 Luftballoons" plays.  If that ain't early 84, nothing is.  That's why I loved Boogie Nights (well, I loved it for a number of reasons) -- it brought back very specific, long-buried memories of particular time frames.  For example, I always associate "Best of My Love" with 1977, very specifically, and that song plays over the first scene, set in 1977.

To me, Wonderland was an example of "smoke and mirrors" filmmaking, in which the subject matter is rather simple, but the treatment of it is tricked up to seem complex.  Split screens, disorienting cuts, and herky-jerky camera movement don't add up to profundity -- it is sound and fury signifying nothing.

Wonderland reminded me of a cable documentary about sleazy porn stars, giving us facts but no point of view, no poetic vision about the human condition.

[NEON MERCURY]

Wonderland reminded me of a cable documentary about sleazy porn stars, giving us facts but no point of view, no poetic vision about the human condition.

....but i think thats the point of the film.....its just facts about the wonderlands murders and different points of view......i agree w/ you about boogie.that film is the pinnacle of the 70's porn/disco vibe.its nearly flawless.....but wonderland, i think is not about what boogie was about...boogie's themes/plot are much grander in scale than wonderland....i see where the errors in woderland about not accurately recreating the vibe/look/feel of the 70's.early 80's would be annoying.but the film still works b/c its all bout the woderland murders......the maion reasoning for my defending of this film is i was excitied about the film b/c of kimeer(who IS a great actor IMO).and josh lucas .....therer is something about that guy.he's seems cool......i dont know just somethign.......but EVERY REVIEW I READ SMASED THIS FILM.........SO WHEN IT CAME OUT..on dvd (in a great 2 disk set...take note PDL).........i snatched it up and found out that IT WAS NOT NEARLY.......NEARLY AS BAD AS PEOPLE MADE IT OUT TO BE IMO...........

[SiliasRuby]

Greasy, ugly, twisted, weird, unnerving, and sad this film spooked me a little bit. Gave me a little more info on John Holmes life since I have read only a little bit about the incident. I see the JFK comparisons but Stone is skillful and more adept at making flashbacks more haunting. Janeane Garafalo is barely in the movie and you can barely recognize Dylan Mcdermott. I also kept thinking of Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in this because the similarities were so apparent and blatent. I understand what they were going for but it made me feel so disparagingly inside thats its going to be tough to rewatch.