Licorice Pizza - SPOILERS!

[PaulElroy35]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Just read this in a five stars review of the movie.

The takeaway is if all men are children, might as well choose the actual child if he's the one that genuinely loves you.

This is unfortunately the major focus and final point of the movie. And it sucks. Embarrassing male fantasy.

And I have to quote this eloquent, yet insane first paragraph from Lauren Wilford'review on Letterboxd:

A warm tribute to a kind of relationship I feel like lots of us have stuffed way in the back of a mental drawer: the ill-advised crush turned briefly, oddly, achingly mutual, transmuted not into a romantic relationship but into an ambiguous, charged entanglement.

At least, the first review is honest about what the movie portrays. To pretend that an ill-advised crush is comparable to being attracted to a teenager is a stretch beyond belief. That way, you can project your life experience into the characters while ignoring Gary's age. I suppose that she isn't assuming that we've all been in love with teenagers. But the movie welcomes that kind of projection, though. Gary is a "teenager" and Alana is an "adult". They shouldn't be together...but should...they're soulmates...it's fate...Isn't life a bitch to constantly break them apart...Adulthood is a myth...
So even Lauren's analogy falls flat. The movie doesn't think this is ill-advised at all. They belong to each other. It's simply not correct. (Everybody around Alana is a cheerleader, so...not much pushback, actually, she could have kissed him earlier.)

You'd note that the openly romantic of Licorice Pizza being denied its romance is also very dishonest. It's only an "entanglement". But don't describe that kind of writing as "mental gymnastics" even though the performance is worthy of a gold metal.

 

Time to move on Drenk or you might get sick from worrying too much.

[Drenk]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Just read this in a five stars review of the movie.

The takeaway is if all men are children, might as well choose the actual child if he's the one that genuinely loves you.

This is unfortunately the major focus and final point of the movie. And it sucks. Embarrassing male fantasy.

And I have to quote this eloquent, yet insane first paragraph from Lauren Wilford'review on Letterboxd:

A warm tribute to a kind of relationship I feel like lots of us have stuffed way in the back of a mental drawer: the ill-advised crush turned briefly, oddly, achingly mutual, transmuted not into a romantic relationship but into an ambiguous, charged entanglement.

At least, the first review is honest about what the movie portrays. To pretend that an ill-advised crush is comparable to being attracted to a teenager is a stretch beyond belief. That way, you can project your life experience into the characters while ignoring Gary's age. I suppose that she isn't assuming that we've all been in love with teenagers. But the movie welcomes that kind of projection, though. Gary is a "teenager" and Alana is an "adult". They shouldn't be together...but should...they're soulmates...it's fate...Isn't life a bitch to constantly break them apart...Adulthood is a myth...
So even Lauren's analogy falls flat. The movie doesn't think this is ill-advised at all. They belong to each other. It's simply not correct. (Everybody around Alana is a cheerleader, so...not much pushback, actually, she could have kissed him earlier.)

You'd note that the openly romantic of Licorice Pizza being denied its romance is also very dishonest. It's only an "entanglement". But don't describe that kind of writing as "mental gymnastics" even though the performance is worthy of a gold metal.

 

Time to move on Drenk or you might get sick from worrying too much.

Too bad I don't have breasts or you would have made a demeaning comment about them, right? 

And I'm commenting a long, in depth review that has been massively retweeted by critics yesterday, there's another place for quoting random reactions; I'm sorry if you're bored with the main dynamic of the movie and how it is discussed.

[PaulElroy35]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Just read this in a five stars review of the movie.

The takeaway is if all men are children, might as well choose the actual child if he's the one that genuinely loves you.

This is unfortunately the major focus and final point of the movie. And it sucks. Embarrassing male fantasy.

And I have to quote this eloquent, yet insane first paragraph from Lauren Wilford'review on Letterboxd:

A warm tribute to a kind of relationship I feel like lots of us have stuffed way in the back of a mental drawer: the ill-advised crush turned briefly, oddly, achingly mutual, transmuted not into a romantic relationship but into an ambiguous, charged entanglement.

At least, the first review is honest about what the movie portrays. To pretend that an ill-advised crush is comparable to being attracted to a teenager is a stretch beyond belief. That way, you can project your life experience into the characters while ignoring Gary's age. I suppose that she isn't assuming that we've all been in love with teenagers. But the movie welcomes that kind of projection, though. Gary is a "teenager" and Alana is an "adult". They shouldn't be together...but should...they're soulmates...it's fate...Isn't life a bitch to constantly break them apart...Adulthood is a myth...
So even Lauren's analogy falls flat. The movie doesn't think this is ill-advised at all. They belong to each other. It's simply not correct. (Everybody around Alana is a cheerleader, so...not much pushback, actually, she could have kissed him earlier.)

You'd note that the openly romantic of Licorice Pizza being denied its romance is also very dishonest. It's only an "entanglement". But don't describe that kind of writing as "mental gymnastics" even though the performance is worthy of a gold metal.

 

Time to move on Drenk or you might get sick from worrying too much.

Too bad I don't have breasts or you would have made a demeaning comment about them, right? 

And I'm commenting a long, in depth review that has been massively retweeted by critics yesterday, there's another place for quoting random reactions; I'm sorry if you're bored with the main dynamic of the movie and how it is discussed.

Im not bored of discussing the film or even the age gap which is interesting as thats a huge point of the film. . However the whole thing of saying the film shouldnt have had an age gap is so stupid. People now for some reason are acting like immoral characters should not be in films which is fucking mad.

People just giving reviews by writing " cant believe theres an age gap this film and everyone involved are despicable " just shows to me how people completely missed the point and dont look further then stuff on the surface.

The reason this discourse is weird is that saying people who love the film or Paul or the people involved are in some way backing the bad actions of characters is so mind-numbingly asinine.

I have no personal problem with you drenk or anyone who doesnt want to watch a film for whatever reasons i respect that. Paul is a diverse filmmaker thats why i love his work and anyone else like that. Just dont try and die on the hill of saying films cannot depict certain actions by characters. At the end of the day thats trying to censor art which is just wrong.

[Dr_Chile]

 

Spoiler: ShowHide

 The ending of Licorice Pizza might be the best ending of Paul Thomas Anderson's career. I found it very haunting and sweet. I don't think Alana explicitly says that she loves Gary. Isn't it said as a voiceover, implying that this is all a dream? Something didn't seem right at Fat Bernie's Pinball. You see the entire cast of the movie lingering in the background. The weird lighting added with no one paying any attention to Gary's management style suggests that this is some kind of dream or at least a heightened sense of reality. The greatest teenage daydream. It reminded me of the Mayham episode on The Sopranos where Tony is about to step into that weird country club that's clearly some kind of purgatory, hell, or afterlife. Remember how frightened he was? This is obviously much more happier and less terrifying than that.

To all of the prudes and normies out there: this ain't for you! I wanted to stand up and cheer when I saw the both of them kiss. Movies, baby! Don't you love 'em??

[ono]

Just checked.  Alana actually says it.  You can see her lips moving.  Not a voiceover.  Went back and looked at the backgrounds of the Fat Bernie's scenes and I'm not really seeing any of the cast lurking there either.  Pretty sure this is reality, else Gary wouldn't have had such an unpleasant time trying to maintain the crowd.

[Drenk]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Exactly 45% of the movie is a dream. The waterbed store with DiCaprio is only Gary sleepwalking. The rest is an inception.

Glad to be a normie if teenage daydreams and contrived romcom endings where people run into each other arms aren't made for me—there are atypical aspects in Licorice Pizza, and that's definitely not that.

May have been your first romcom, Dr Chile. Maybe only PTA could make you watch that. See you in 2024.

EDIT:

Here is another quote from a Letterboxd review that I find relevant. Because...predatory romance depicted as a cute, toxic relationship aside...the writing is weak, which means he will get his Oscar this time.

And that's possibly the biggest problem with Licorice Pizza. Anderson's writing. I found it particularly lazy compared to the past, constructed from an entitled point of view. Uninspired is the first adjective that comes to mind. "Forgive me if this doesn't bite, I am still Paul Thomas Anderson. Remember Magnolia?". Another part that doesn't work very well is the supposed "romance" between Alana Haim and Cooper Hoffman. It lacks of chemistry and truth to the point of feeling artificial. Was that on purpose to expose the lack of maturity with Alana's personality, and the evident age issue with Hoffman? Maybe, but for that to click with the audience you'll have to do a bit better than filming this recycled portrait of jealous and possessive lovers at every chance you get.

It's as if being afraid of the fact that Alana is in love with Gary from minute fifteen made him repeat the same trite jealousy trope over and over again. Even when Gary almost gropes her while she's sleeping, it is portrayed as his tender yearning for Alana while the cool needle drop is playing. By the end, PTA is convinced by the innocence and charming ridiculousness of the romance. I'd love to see the shooting script.

[Jeremy Blackman]

SPOILERS

I liked this movie (non-spoiler review here), but I have so much to say about the age gap that this post will be devoted entirely to that. In short: #drenkwasright

For me, this is a will-they-won't-they story that unambiguously ends with "yes they will." The feeling I got from the end is that joy can be found in an unconventional relationship.

The first five minutes goes heavy explaining how problematic their potential relationship might be. The generous interpretation is that PTA is simply hanging a lantern. The less charitable interpretation is that it's CYA (and it felt like that a bit, even in the moment). Either way, I think it's establishing the age gap as being absolutely central to the film.

So where does it go with the age gap theme? Well, after the opening scene, we get a solid 20 minutes or so of potent romantic tension. At that point I already clocked it as going for something like this: These two are so wrong for each other that it just might work—especially in this crazy world of ours.

Midway through the film, when Alana gets jealous of Gary's new girl, she's meant to be seen as pathetic. Falling for a 15-year-old boy is rock bottom—a clear signal that she must finally get her life together. I appreciated this scene and was grateful the movie had finally reckoned with the central problem. And I was ready for the story to take a new direction. Except... that's not really what was happening. Instead, this was the second act of a romantic comedy, where the lovers get split up and are destined to get back together.

And let's be honest, this is absolutely PTA's romantic comedy. More than PDL or Phantom Thread.

The age gap isn't incidental or glossed over or ignored. Not only is the age gap foregrounded, the movie is very much about it. But I would say this. Certainly depiction is not endorsement, but by the same token, acknowledgement is not reckoning.

Licorice Pizza examines the age gap issue and comes to a conclusion. First its characters do: our relationship is crazy because of our age difference, but let's try to make it work anyway. It's worth it to try, because we're truly in love, and our connection is that special.

I would have to stretch pretty hard to view the end of this movie as a critical examination of Gary and Alana's relationship. Their fateful reunion is depicted as positively euphoric—about as close to endorsement as you can get. One could argue that this sequence, with its heavenly lighting and electric energy, is just a depiction of the character POVs. But it's very very hard to believe the movie isn't rooting for them. If the film means to cast a critical eye on their future, I'm not seeing it.

It almost seems as if PTA has constructed a scenario in which this type of age gap might end up being okay. The film does its due diligence, acknowledging and grappling with the age gap, and then ultimately decides it's probably fine.

How you react to that is an open question and is clearly a full spectrum. I honestly don't feel equipped to pass judgment on any of those reactions. I'll definitely say I wouldn't blame anyone for feeling sick about it. Somehow I've arrived at a position (and trust me, I didn't expect this) where I 100% understand the hysterical tiktoks and people who walked out because the whole thing felt gross to them.

Personally I wasn't too disturbed, because I didn't really see Gary as a victim. But how can I even judge that? He's squarely a 15-year-old boy—an awkward oaf who's still growing into his body. Which is somewhat unsettling considering where things are clearly going. (I don't buy for a second that they're stopping at one innocent kiss.)

It's not even fair to say that Gary and Alana are at a similar level of emotional or mental maturity. They're just not. Alana is often the most mature/sane/observant/competent/correct person in a given situation. Gary's precocious entrepreneurship, rather than being a sign of maturity, is a pure expression of his teenage self-centeredness. He's a child.

[ono]

But is Alana really that mature or sane?  She's super volatile.  If she were more mature and less stunted, no way would she be as into Gary.  She pines for almost every guy who gives her attention.  Lance is an idiot but "might be her boyfriend."  Jack, she snaps out of it after she realizes he doesn't even know her name.  Jon she ignores.  Brian she gets hopeful about up until the point Joel calls her for a drink.

[Yes]

I can see why people have issues but I just personally don't see how Alana at any point is preying over him or behaving in a way that's lustful or sexual. Inappropriate but everything is a means for her own goals and not exploitation. The relationship is inappropriate in general. It's why the waterbed scene and Gary's refrain is poignant. And I think the ending is pretty keen in showing that the relationship has so many issues as with every other relationship in movie. She calls him an idiot.  And I liked her response in a review that "Gary would pull her wrist too hard and they'll fight and not speak for a week". Every time they run off together in movie, they almost immediately break apart.

And yeah, while she's clearly talented, her character is constantly immature or impulsive and reactionary

[ono]

Here's another observation that kinda dawned on me.  In all of Alana's interactions with older men, I never entertained them as viable partners for her.  I saw them all as lecherous old men hitting on her and somehow shifted Alana's age in my mind to something so much younger (even under 18) that their hitting on her is inappropriate.  A reflection of her lack of maturity.

[Yes]

Here's another observation that kinda dawned on me.  In all of Alana's interactions with older men, I never entertained them as viable partners for her.  I saw them all as lecherous old men hitting on her and somehow shifted Alana's age in my mind to something so much younger (even under 18) that their hitting on her is inappropriate.  A reflection of her lack of maturity.

I agree with this, as well. She's mistreated by every male in the movie, even her infantilizing father, her boss, Safdie. I've said this in the discord but even her brief thing with Lance wasn't sexual or serious. A casual thing that never extended beyond his posturing and included him lying about being Jewish.

[Rooty Poots]

Here's another observation that kinda dawned on me.  In all of Alana's interactions with older men, I never entertained them as viable partners for her.  I saw them all as lecherous old men hitting on her and somehow shifted Alana's age in my mind to something so much younger (even under 18) that their hitting on her is inappropriate.  A reflection of her lack of maturity.

I agree with this, as well. She's mistreated by every male in the movie, even her infantilizing father, her boss, Safdie. I've said this in the discord but even her brief thing with Lance wasn't sexual or serious. A casual thing that never extended beyond his posturing and included him lying about being Jewish.

Is he lying about being Jewish? I know Skyler Gisondo is Jewish, and I never got the sense that Lance lied about being Jewish. But I've only seen it once so far, so it's entirely possible I missed some details!

[Yes]

Here's another observation that kinda dawned on me.  In all of Alana's interactions with older men, I never entertained them as viable partners for her.  I saw them all as lecherous old men hitting on her and somehow shifted Alana's age in my mind to something so much younger (even under 18) that their hitting on her is inappropriate.  A reflection of her lack of maturity.

I agree with this, as well. She's mistreated by every male in the movie, even her infantilizing father, her boss, Safdie. I've said this in the discord but even her brief thing with Lance wasn't sexual or serious. A casual thing that never extended beyond his posturing and included him lying about being Jewish.

Is he lying about being Jewish? I know Skyler Gisondo is Jewish, and I never got the sense that Lance lied about being Jewish. But I've only seen it once so far, so it's entirely possible I missed some details!

He lied and concealed his atheism basically

[HACKANUT]

He doesn't appear to be lying about being Jewish... he out-right says he was born Jewish. Unless you are saying he's only saying he's Atheist because he's lying about being Jewish (and thus wouldnt know the tradition Moti offered him to carry out)? But that seems like a stretch. Kinda just think his Atheism is  helping outline how complex the religious and political landscape was becoming.

[Drenk]

It’s just another character designed to lead to a punchline around character whose dynamics are undercooked/make no sense (the Haim family). He’s Jewish. His atheism isn’t hidden.

Only Sean Penn and Bradley Cooper act like horny, childish, drugged assholes with Alana. I’m sorry, but Wachs is not a disappointment. He’s trusting Alana at the end with very sensible information. What? He’s bad because Alana has a crush with every man in the movie? And once again, PTA is writing these characters, he’s deliberately using them as plot devices to unite Alana with Gary at the end after establishing that adults aren’t as different as children. Wach’s homosexuality is actually used to make a parallel between his relationship and Alana being in love with a teenager. One is valid, yet tragically repressed, and therefore so is the other, thinks Licorice Pizza. If that doesn’t make you raise multiple eyebrows…Homosexuality as the road to pedophilia…

It sounds insane. But the movie is very straightforward about all this. You can argue that PTA pandering backfired at the end, but how does he revise the script without considering all this?