Game of Thrones (spoilers)

[Jeremy Blackman]

btw, did they show what happened to Blackfish? don't remember seeing him, and he seems like a stand up guy

He went to pee outside; they made a point of highlighting that. I would bet that he escaped, since he's smart and probably would have noticed things going down. However, apparently the book makes clear just how many more of Robb's men died. Maybe we'll get a sense of the massacre's scope in the next episode.

also, what about the uncle who married the Frey girl.....

I assume he was killed. I'm sort of more curious about his "wife"... if she had any knowledge of the plot, etc.

Just read this: "The Red Wedding takes place in the middle of Martin's third novel in the series, A Storm of Swords."

Strange. I read elsewhere that it's 2/3 through the book.

[polkablues]

Just read this: "The Red Wedding takes place in the middle of Martin's third novel in the series, A Storm of Swords."

Strange. I read elsewhere that it's 2/3 through the book.

Well, the quote doesn't say it takes place at the halfway point, just "in the middle" of the book, i.e., somewhere between the beginning and the ending.

[Fernando]

well, can someone here that has read Storm of Swords tell us where in the book the RW takes place? (im looking at you squints)


was thinking about Arya and besides this

please let Arya at some point meet someone from Braavos so she summons Jaqen. valar morghulis.
i don't think the hound will harm her, question is, where will they go? what are his options? Stannis? some Stark bannermen? but how long can they still remain Stark bannermen? the Starks are gone as a power house. the Tullys?

another possibility since she has nothing else to lose she might want now to go to Braavos and become faceless....ok I cant stop thinking about this show and its possibilities.

[Drenk]

The Red Wedding is at 2/3 of the book. It end page 705. And it's 1128 pages long. The last 1/3 is the best, by the way.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Decent episode overall. It's tough after last week, but I think they did the best they could to make it feel somewhat like a finale. Everyone's arriving at their destinations. The white walkers finally got people's attention. And Daenerys is getting really popular. (The crowdsurfing scene worked for me, because her whole "Breaker of Chains" thing always works for me now.)

Looks like Arya and Brann's characters are deepening, and their stories are wide open for expansion now. That should be interesting. Especially Arya... I'm starting to see why the book readers love her character so much.

Ygritte and John appear to have serious relationship problems. But I predict they'll reunite battling the white walkers or something like that.

A few complaints. Tywin's dialogue with Tyrion was too on-the-nose. He doesn't need to say (twice) that he's more powerful than Joffrey, because he's been demonstrating it all season, and he just demonstrated it thirty seconds ago. I feel like "show don't tell" applies here. Also, Joffrey was cartoonish, nearly to the point of being non-threatening, which I could not have fathomed last season. Maybe they just really want our attention to shift to Tywin. And one last thing... I'm now 100% sick of Shae, who is dumb, and is also played by a horrible actress. (Not the best combination.)

[Brando]

I don't know for future seasons if I will wait to watch all the episodes together. I learned something happened called the Red Wedding. Then Jon Stewart made a joke about it. I am emotionally drained from binge watching a season filled with torture, standard GoT brutality and the Red Wedding. I am glad I have to wait till winter for more episodes. While I love the show and get more excited for it than any other show, I really need the break.

The Red Wedding has to be one of the most fucking fuck fuck fucked things that has happened or will happen on TV. Lady Stark's screaming and that silent stare still haunts me. So much pain in her face. Damn the old gods and the new. Damn them to the seven hells.

Ayra seeing Rob's headless body with the decapitated Dire Wolf's head was heartbreaking. There was so much talk about the violence after season one. The violence has gotten way worse and seems to be getting worse. I can't think of anything I've seen that is more violent than this show.

Is it too much to ask just one good thing to happen to the Stark Girls? Could Tyrion move Sansa out of Kingslanding? Get her away from the Lannisters and Joffery please.

Come on Khaleesii. You are our only hope. I no longer expect a happy ending for anyone on this show but you better raise some serious hell in Westeros.

I love Ygritte. She brings humor which so welcomed on this show which is masochistic to watch. Just the way she says Snow makes me laugh.

I would put my money on Little Finger being the ruler of Westeros when this all ends.

I am terrified TERRIFIED of the Red Woman. When she told Ayra they would meet again, I just had so much dread and it's even worse now after the season finished.

Will anyone be alive when Winter and the white walkers finally arrive?

[Pubrick]

I love Ygritte. She brings humor which so welcomed on this show which is masochistic to watch.

i don't think you intended this to mean anything beyond the way she keeps repeating her catchphrase all the time, but her final use of it when she catches up to him in ep 10 is just crazy good. the masochistic comment about the show rings especially true in her display of love for him when she shoots three fucking arrows into him! excellent break up scene.

overall i was disappointed with the last episode. maybe because the red wedding was just so world shattering, but i think the problems with the finale go deeper:

- there was way too much exposition for a season closer, it felt like an opener. there was even unnecessary reminders of relationships like it was consciously trying to fill in late comer viewers who tune in only to see season finales of shows. this is a thing. the wrap up (FINALLY) for theon greyjoy's story was a good example of the characters talking WAYY too much about the significance of who is doing what to who and why.. it's like they were just summarizing a whole chunk of the book to someone who hasn't been paying attention.

- the emotional note they were going for in the last scene is just a lazy rehash of the heights they already reached when khaleesi liberated the unsullied. the lead up to the yunkai liberation was also messy and hard to follow, made worse by the awkward waiting for the gates to open. i get that she's OBVIOUSLY the real hero of the story but there's nothing in that last scene that we haven't felt before. we're already onboard, at this point it's just getting annoying.

- arya killing her first dude was the best part.

i think my overall criticism of this finale is that it reflects a badly structured season. obviously the red wedding would have been a good ending because it fundamentally changed the show. leaving it the way they did is just moving the plot along a little bit, it really felt like it just fizzled out. the entire show is a cliffhanger so it's not a good enough excuse to say "well they left us hanging cos we don't know what's gonna happen next.." duh that's the whole point of every episode, not just season finales. a GOOD finale needs to either provide closure -- this did NOT -- or at least burn shit to the ground (so to speak ) so that we can imagine what could possible grow from the ruins.. and they wasted that on the red wedding.

honestly, if THAT is all that happened in 1100 pages then that is a goddamn boring book! we know that more occurred because the book itself had to have an ending beyond the massacre at 2/3rds the way through. my friend who's read the whole thing confirmed that there was indeed at least ONE more major event that was supposed to take place. it's just poor structuring to not include it this season, whatever it is. that's why this felt ultimately unsatisfying.

[Brando]

obviously the red wedding would have been a good ending because it fundamentally changed the show. leaving it the way they did is just moving the plot along a little bit, it really felt like it just fizzled out.

The show has gotten into a predictable pattern that it needs to stop doing. The first three seasons have all lead up to a huge event that takes place in episode 9 leaving 10 to set up the next season. In season 1 Ned Stark is killed in episode 9. In season 2 it was the huge battle and season 3 it was the red wedding in episode 9. The events and actions themselves are completely unpredictable but going forward I'm going to expect something crazy is happening the 9th episode of every season.

[Jeremy Blackman]

honestly, if THAT is all that happened in 1100 pages then that is a goddamn boring book! we know that more occurred because the book itself had to have an ending beyond the massacre at 2/3rds the way through. my friend who's read the whole thing confirmed that there was indeed at least ONE more major event that was supposed to take place. it's just poor structuring to not include it this season, whatever it is. that's why this felt ultimately unsatisfying.

Season 4 will be mostly drawn from the last 1/3 of the third book.

But apparently it's complicated. GRRM says:

Most of season four will be drawn from the third book, A STORM OF SWORDS, though some material from the fourth and fifth books may be added. Books four and five, remember, take place simultaneously, not sequentially.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/318880.html?thread=17548704#t17548704

[AntiDumbFrogQuestion]

I'm okay with the 9th episode being the shocking climax, although I think after 3 seasons it's about time to let that one go.
I'm okay with the 7th episode of "Mad Men" and 18th episode of "Fringe" every season being a format-breaker, just because it lets them get a bit loose. GoT, however, uses their formula to shock and amaze, and if we keep seeing the same magic trick, it won't be as effective in coming seasons.
If they still do it, though, I'll live.

[Fernando]

agree this felt like the first two episodes of the season, however at least for me way better.

some episodes ago Bran's story felt without purpose, right now it's very interesting and has a lot of potential.

Tywin showing who's boss will always be fun/great, impressive how he managed to justify the red wedding.

poor Sansa cant catch a break, she was kinda happy making schemes with Tyrion and then BOOM.

as usual Arya is the best, she at some point must use that coin so she can meet with Jaqen (if that's what is for) right? please let that happen.

Season 4 will be mostly drawn from the last 1/3 of the third book.

But apparently it's complicated. GRRM says:

Most of season four will be drawn from the third book, A STORM OF SWORDS, though some material from the fourth and fifth books may be added. Books four and five, remember, take place simultaneously, not sequentially.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/318880.html?thread=17548704#t17548704

that's kinda good news isn't it? I mean, next season will be as mentioned and maybe the next two will be taken from book 4 and 5, that will give GRRM more time to have book 6 ready...

my friend who's read the whole thing confirmed that there was indeed at least ONE more major event that was supposed to take place. it's just poor structuring to not include it this season, whatever it is. that's why this felt ultimately unsatisfying.

it must be a time/money issue, the writers have said that given budget and time limitations they can only do ten episodes a season, if they'd do more it would hurt the quality....anyway, I wonder what that major event is, one or the two leeches left? can't be Balon Greyjoy dying, he's small potatoes, in fact I don't even know why Stannis mentions him, Balon has never (in the show) said he wants to be king, has he? so, it could be very well that little shit Joffrey.....unless GRRM wants us to be depressed forever and kills off one of the little Starks.

[diggler]

it must be a time/money issue, the writers have said that given budget and time limitations they can only do ten episodes a season, if they'd do more it would hurt the quality....anyway, I wonder what that major event is, one or the two leeches left? can't be Balon Greyjoy dying, he's small potatoes, in fact I don't even know why Stannis mentions him, Balon has never (in the show) said he wants to be king, has he? so, it could be very well that little shit Joffrey.....unless GRRM wants us to be depressed forever and kills off one of the little Starks.

Balon's inclusion was strange in the context of the show, but the Greyjoy's did revolt when Robert was king and are currently occupying land in the North without approval from the throne. He's one of the Five Kings. Maybe Stannis was like, "I've got these leeches lying around, it would be a shame to waste them"

I think wiping out a renegade Pirate kingdom that refuses to negotiate with anyone would be a wise move for anyone on the Iron Throne.

[Brando]

that's kinda good news isn't it? I mean, next season will be as mentioned and maybe the next two will be taken from book 4 and 5, that will give GRRM more time to have book 6 ready...

This is an article from Slate. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/06/chart_george_r_r_martin_writes_faster_than_hbo_can_make_episodes_of_game.html

Can George R.R. Martin Keep Up With HBO's Game of Thrones? Probably.

Many Game of Thrones fans worry that George R.R. Martin may not be able to finish the remaining two books in his A Song of Ice and Fire series fast enough to keep up with the HBO series. In an appearance on Conan, Martin said the HBO show is "moving like a freight train." But maybe there's nothing to worry about. The above chart uses the average time between Song of Ice and Fire book releases to predict the times Martin will complete the remaining two books and compares this with the expected schedule of the show, which is supposed to run for eight seasons. (The third book was split into two seasons.) If Martin writes as fast as he normally does, he will have a little time to spare. It'll be close, but he'll make it.

This, of course, assumes Martin doesn't take an exceptionally long time with the final two books—and he might. On Conan he described The Winds of Winter as a "fifteen-hundred page monster," which would make it as long as A Dance With Dragons. If the last two take the six years that Martin took to release A Dance with Dragons, then expect the HBO show to go on hiatus or produce an ending based on hints from Martin. And who knows that there won't ultimately be eight or more books? The series was originally supposed to be a trilogy.

Still, there are bigger problems to worry about—for example, hiatus or no hiatus, the teenage actors who play Arya, Bran, and Sansa are growing up much faster than their characters. Then again, maybe their characters will die in horrendous fashion before that becomes too noticeable.

-----

I could see a problem with the two books that have yet to be written. Martin has probably given hints to the producers about the two final books but book 3 had to be split into multiple seasons. Wouldn't you think the final two books be too epic for a single seasons as well?  I might be pessimistic but I see the show ending before the final book or we get an abridged version of the final books. Or as the show continues it gets further and further away from the books.

[Tictacbk]

GoT, however, uses their formula to shock and amaze, and if we keep seeing the same magic trick, it won't be as effective in coming seasons.

I would extend this to the way they've been structuring episodes as well.  It feels like every episode nudges a handful of character's stories forward a bit (or they remained stagnant in Theon's case) and then in the FINAL scene something awesome would happen.  Sometimes that last scene was even with a character we hadn't seen yet that episode (it feels like it often was, but I'm just going by memory here).  This is the first season where I've watched them week by week and maybe that had something to do with it, but I'd like to see them mix it up a bit more.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Balon's inclusion was strange in the context of the show, but the Greyjoy's did revolt when Robert was king and are currently occupying land in the North without approval from the throne. He's one of the Five Kings. Maybe Stannis was like, "I've got these leeches lying around, it would be a shame to waste them"

I think wiping out a renegade Pirate kingdom that refuses to negotiate with anyone would be a wise move for anyone on the Iron Throne.

Still, he definitely should have included Tywin before Balon Greyjoy.

That device actually kind of annoys me. Why not use 1 or 2 or 3 more leeches to simply get rid of all your major enemies? Did something constrain them to 3 leeches? I feel like we didn't get enough information there.

If this Lord of Light business gets out of control, it could be a real problem for me.