Before The Devil Knows You're Dead

[MacGuffin]

Trailer here.

Starring: Philip Seymour Hoffman, Ethan Hawke, Albert Finney, Marisa Tomei, Aleksa Palladino
 
Directed by: Sidney Lumet 

Premise: Two brothers organize the robbery of their parents' jewelry store. The job goes horribly wrong, triggering off a series of events that send them and their family hurtling towards a shattering climax.

[pete]

that trailer gives away pretty much everything.

[Pubrick]

seriously that trailer has a completely fleshed out 3 act structure with every possible twist and money shot (tomei). and it still ends with "now in post production".. so i guess they're still deliberating on the final shot or something.

[polkablues]

I'm glad I read your guys' posts first, because I'm looking forward to this movie and I'd rather not have it ruined for me by a spoily trailer.

[MacGuffin]

New Trailer here.

[Pubrick]

good
not as spoilery
actually makes it look like a good movie

bad
sans nudity
still spoilery

winner
shut shut shut shut shut shut shut up!

[picolas]

i really didn't like this. i didn't like the characters, i didn't like the writing, the direction was pretty joyless.. massive tragedy alone is worthless. i don't like thinking about it, but i wanted to warn everyone.

[Pubrick]

i didn't like the writing,

whatever that means.

the direction was pretty joyless

whatever that means.

i really didn't like this.

oh.. i get it.

[Stefen]

The IFC podcast spent a whole 30 minute episode talking about PSH's performance in this flick. They said it's his best.

Yay? Nay? They also gave the impression that Ethan Hawke was very annoying.

[picolas]

i didn't like the writing,

whatever that means.

the direction was pretty joyless

whatever that means.

i really didn't like this.

oh.. i get it.

hah. okay. i realize that review didn't help anyone. sorry anyone. i truly didn't want to think about it yesterday so i could skip straight to the warning asap. i was thinking about it this morning, though, and i'll go into plenty of detail now with a couple very minor spoilers.

- if you didn't like that review you probably won't like the first scene of the movie which involves PSH and Tomei having an after-sex convo about stuff you're not really supposed to understand. well, you understand it a little more an hour later but the dialogue is so vague and cliched and referencey there's nothing to it. basically the scene is there to show the happy times, but they could've skipped the convo entirely. they could've skipped some of the sex too.
- an example of the writing being crap: at one point a fairly minor character goes "the world is evil. some of us make money off it. some of us get destroyed by it." this is meant to be the big deep thematic moment of the movie. it's basically the "we crash into each other.. just to feel something" speech of this movie.
- when i say "the direction was pretty joyless" i mean i got the sense that Lumet didn't have much of an idea of why the movie was good or worth making as he was making it. this shows up in the overall visual blandness and the basically unoriginal way in which the story is told. as well as one mistake in particular that i think is key to answering stefen's question of whether hawke was annoying.
- there's a scene where hawke asks hoffman for help over the phone and hoffman says he'll come over and figure something out and hawke goes "these guys aren't fucking around!" but he misinterprets the line, delivering it as though hoffman hasn't offered any help. it's verbal mugging. he also does some actual mugging in a couple of scenes. i'm not sure if i'd call his performance 'annoying' but it's definitely overblown and desperately begging for the audience's sympathy. hoffman, on the other hand, embraces the emptiness of his character and shows he can do no wrong again. i did find myself several times thinking how amazing it was that he could make this shallow, tawdry dialogue sound okay, even intriguing sometimes. i also wouldn't say it's his best performance ever by any means, but it's a great example of his abilities. he's easily the best in the movie.

the one bad review on rotten tomatoes (and Lumet himself in that review) sum up the fundamental/most important problem with this movie really well. these are not good, smart, or even interesting people. and so everything that happens to them is uninteresting/worthless.

*somewhat bigger spoiler

there is even a character whose fate is left unsaid. and not in a profound ambiguous way. in a "what happened to that guy?" way. but nobody who made the movie cares i felt.

[Pubrick]

thanks picolbug. i never actually thought this movie would be any good, i mean, why would Lumet suddenly make something great after decades of not? dude fell off ages ago.

the mere existence of this thread, along with polky's post, gave an aura of inexplicably high expectations. maybe it's cos of PSH, but the fact that Lumet doesn't make good movies anymore really shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Ghostboy]

I thought the movie was pretty good until the ending, when all of a sudden it just wraps up without wrapping anything up. It's like the ending to a different film. And the monologue Picolas mentions - it is indeed terrible, a cheap attempt to shoehorn the plot towards a tidy conclusion. I couldn't believe that it was over when the credits hit.

But the rest of it was pretty strong, and PSH is indeed amazing. The way he frowns when he's smiling is something to behold. It's one of his best performances, in a film that isn't quite up to par. But I'd still reccomend it.

[pete]

I'm in Tokyo right now, if anyone wants to chill.
but I'm going home in a few hours.

Hey Friends,

You are invited--All you have to do is go to our website www.iffboston.org you can download and print passes for two free screenings at the Somerville Theater in Davis Square:

On Monday, Oct. 22 at 7:30pm, we will present a special advance screening of the Coen Bros. new film, NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN starring Javier Bardem and Josh Brolin.

And!!

On Tuesday, Oct. 23 at 7:30pm, we will present Sidney Lumet's upcoming film, BEFORE THE DEVIL KNOWS YOU'RE DEAD starring Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

All you have to do is go to our website's homepage, click on the film title. It will bring you to a description page for each of the of the films. At the bottom of the page you can click the link to print a pass for the show. Bring the pass with you to the Somerville Theater. We recommend arriving early because these events are FIRST COME, FIRST SERVE and subject to the size of the theater.

Best,
IFFBoston

[Pubrick]

I'm in Tokyo right now, if anyone wants to chill.
but I'm going home in a few hours.

just enough time to hook up with some forlorn american girl who will whisper some bullshit in your ear as you part ways.

[Gamblour.]

So this just got released here in Atlanta. I am pretty much on the same page with picolas. I've never been a big fan of movies where shit goes bad and then just gets worse and worse. So maybe I should've skipped this, but I was really looking forward to this because of the things I had heard/read about it and, of course, PSH. I dunno, I didn't care for his performance. His sleazeball was perfected in PDL.

The movie's timeline is fractured, jumping back and forth (with some of the WORST transitions I've ever witnessed: strange industrial techno sounding noise and then frames flipping back and forth. pretty, pretty awful.). I don't feel the way it's arranged helped it at all. If it played straight through, it would've been much stronger. Seeing events flipped around did not really enhance anything.

Oh and how bout the most cliched drug dealer this year? Marisa Tomei is quite naked, but everything else in this movie is so visually uninteresting. For a guy who wrote a book about the subject, Lumet's sense of direction is a bit off for this whole thing. The best part was the other brother in the movie.