Talk to Her

[chainsmoking insomniac]

Well put.  If only I could be so succinct.

[rustinglass]

the spoiler warnings?

[chainsmoking insomniac]

Yeah, I was kinda peeved about that too.  Oh well.  I'll have to see this flick anyway.

[bonanzataz]

this is why i don't read threads about movies i haven't seen (unless it's a movie i don't want to see or don't care about being spoiled).

[Gold Trumpet]

I'm one of the few here who disliked the film, but I also believe it is far from promoting rapists of any sort. I think the film is just trying to bring the viewer to understanding their situation better and sympathize with them. For me, the film brought me too close to the rapist where I just couldn't care about him. As others saw a lonely man who made some wrong choices, I saw the stereotypes of a rapist and pedophile. I say pedophile because his position of being in power of a woman with no control or movement feels like pedophlia in the way an adult has control over a child. Also, his mannerisms appear very childlike too. I wish the film would have taken the point of view of the friend more and been more tidy in its story. Its one thing to roam through a story with little by way of action, its another to make a 2 hour plus film of that and set much of the action in a random European hospital. The combination of the pacing and focus was just too much for me to even give a shit. On the point of following the friend more, he could identify with the rapist and through his eyes, communicate ideas we can identify with but also, through actions, bring more understanding to the rapist and his situation.

~rougerum

[onoff]

cecil b. demented
sigh. where did i say that his acts are excusable or tolerable?

onoff
you didn't , and I wasn't putting words into your mouth cecil b. I asked you if you were "insinuating" it.  because by saying that you don't agree with my so called "harsh judgements", its all the same to me since my judgements are logical. But you're having a hard time admitting this because you like this film. And yet you never even payed attention to the underlying immorality of almodovar's film. (like 80% of the public).

cecil b. demented
the movie isnt about whether benigno did something wrong or not (which is obvious to everyone except for him).


onoff
Of course not since almodovar deliberately blurred the line between rape and consentuality. That's manipulation and it works.

cecil b. demented
and its not about "forcing" you to "sympathize" with him.

onoff
yes it is, since Benigno is polite, gentle, caring and funny.
Almodovar created Benigno in such a way that it is hard to hate the guy,(even though, deep down, he's just a delusional criminal...because rape is still a crime). And that's what I hate about almodovar's film. That there is compassion for this degenerated mental case.

while visiting imdb.com ,  I noticed that a good majority didn't care about Benigno's deeds (probably not because they are "pro-rape", but simply because they've been fooled into Almodovar's manipulative film.

but there are some exceptions.Here, take a look at this review.
(he likes the film, and admits that it is rape and yet he doesn't think it's immoral.
http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0287467-124
at one point he says: but films like these do not seek our sympathies for wrongful doings of the protagonist. They just sought to shed some light on their frailties behind their obviously sick, twised minds

that's his way to rationalise the whole film. (this guy actually wrote 2 different reviews, in his first review he never even payed attention to almodovar's twisted version of morality. In his 2nd review he acknowledges that there's some kind of controversy but doesn't admits that its wrongful. because as he puts it: "they just sought to shed some light on their frailties" ....Like I should care? He wouldn't say something like that if he would've been sodomised by a "gentle and loving" male nurse."

this other person says:
Perhaps the viewer is not encouraged to condone to the horrible deeds performed by one of the men. In fact, the viewer is not encouraged to take a stand at all. One gets easily sucked in by the fine pictures and the charming music..

I agree here..

the same person also says:
My objection: the film leaves room for too great a variation or reactions -  it is vague. Why is that so bad? Well, because the deeds that are performed, and the attitude shown by the men towards the two women, are such that vagueness can't be anything but a misplaced,corrupt perspective. The viewer is tempted to sympathize with things that one can sympathize with only if one doesn't see their real meaning, their seriousness.

and to me, that's where almodovar's manipulation intervened. Benigno's salacious deeds are inexcusable. Therefore this film is filth, because disguising the graveness of the film's situation is immoral.

cecil b. demented
stop putting yourself in the shoes of the father

onoff
I'm not surprised that you're saying this. Because, obviously you pertinently know that as long as it doesn't concerns you, it isn't important.
But How would you react if that rape victim was your daughter? would you just let it go? As far as i'm concerned,  I'd blow Benigno's head off that's for sure.

cecil b. demented
and start putting yourself in the shoes of benignos friends and coworkers as well

onoff what for? they're scum since they felt pity for a raper. (not all of them If i remember correctly).

cecil b. demented
its about the tragedy he has caused, and how people deal with this. (as you can see, some deny that he even did it.)

onoff
that's what the film really should be about. But the forgivingness towards Benigno is just too omnipresent..but like i said earlier,there's just something wrong about the underlying apology of crime.

[Cecil]

right. all rapists are stark raving mad lunatics who indulge in every sin possible.

right, benigno is forgiven at the end of the film.

almodovar has made a movie about a realistic situation with complex, 3 dimensional characters.

and for the record, i didnt even like the film very much. it was okay, but i didnt see what the big deal was. im defending it because i believe youre wrong.

EDIT: i too would like to hear your response to cbrads taxi driver comment

[modage]

it looks like onoff has a greater problem with the morals of the film than its craftsmanship or storytelling.  perhaps someone he knows has been raped, or he is some sort of religious zealot?

[©brad]

cecil is right here. did u read my post a few posts up? cuz i'd luv to read ur italicized response to it.

personally i've had enuff of onoff.

aw, now you're just upset because you fell for that Pro-Rape Propaganda.  which, was really nothing more than an explotation film to begin with.

god u suck.

i'll bet people in onoffs 'intro to film' class are really blown away by his stunning insight.  maybe we should be more appreciative.

pfft.. if i were in the class i'd be  

alright, reread all of cecils/my posts in this thread carefully and get over it, cuz the argument is done. gt u wonder why i don't really care to argue too much, its b/c arguing is like beating a dead horse when ur dealing with ppl who just dont get it

[onoff]

it looks like onoff has a greater problem with the morals of the film than its craftsmanship or storytelling.  perhaps someone he knows has been raped, or he is some sort of religious zealot?

yeah tortured, raped and killed.

[onoff]

almodovar has made a movie about a realistic situation with complex, 3 dimensional characters.


EDIT: i too would like to hear your response to cbrads taxi driver comment

I agree, but I didn't like almodovar's moral (or even his point of view about his character's morals).

ps: what taxi driver comment?

[onoff]

the spoiler warnings?

(off subject), I love your avatar (imo underground is one of the best film ever made.)

[Cecil]

To me, Talk to her felt like a pro-rape propaganda reformulated à la typical Almodovar 'touch'.

A real stab in the back to rape victims.& I felt no pity whatsoever when Benigno killed himself. On the contrary...If your comatose daughter, your own flesh and blood was abused, impregnated by a schizo, in real life..You probably wouldn't have any compassion for a guy like Benigno.

Rape is not an act of love. An act of love has to be mutual. No matter how nice Benigno seemed, He's still  a serious degenerated mental case. If I was the father of tht abused girl, I would strangle the guy to death with my bare hands.

There's more honesty in a Larry Clark film than in this cleverly dissimulated rape-drama,cause that's what this film is about. Only Almodovar's film is formulated in such a way, that it is hard not to sympathize with his lead character.  Manipulation at its very best.

rape towards comatose patients exists, and there's nothing romantic about it.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/26/patient.abuse/

Talk to her

8/10 for the craftsmanship

0/10 for the message.


Alicia becomes pregnant when Benigno rapes her, and it is the delivery of her child, which dies, that wakes her from her coma. There is something deeply disturbing about this idea, that in the end it takes a rape to free her from her captivity. How far is this from the fantasy that raped women end up enjoying it?
Michael W.philips Jr

what a gross post. okay why do u assume the film condones rape, first off, because i don't think it does. what happens to him at the end? yeah thats what i thought. geez i would luv to hear ur opinion on martin scorsese sittin in the back of a taxi cab discussing what a certain firearm would do to a black woman's vaginal area. i guess he's a racist bigot, right?

ur missing the point of the film. u can have sympathy and compassion for a person, even if u don't condede w/ their every action.

[onoff]

geez i would luv to hear ur opinion on martin scorsese sittin in the back of a taxi cab discussing what a certain firearm would do to a black woman's vaginal area. i guess he's a racist bigot, right?

ur missing the point of the film. u can have sympathy and compassion for a person, even if u don't condede w/ their every action.[/quote][/quote]

your comparison is inadequately chosen. there's a difference between talking about something and doing it.
Benigno is a criminal and nothing more.

[©brad]

your comparison is inadequately chosen. there's a difference between talking about something and doing it.
Benigno is a criminal and nothing more.

u better watch yoself cuz ur about to-





-all over ur punk ass.