Best ironic use of music in a movie?

[SoNowThen]

Kick ass. That was beautiful!

Yeah I saw it when I was younger too, and in no way could I have got the reference without reading about it, but that shot has always been one of my favorites, and I used to sooooo look forward to it at the end of the movie. It just caps the film.

[Alethia]

no, i also agree with everything you guys have just said, i dont think it was put there to show marty's vast knowledge of film history.  but i, however, recognized the reference, cuz i recognized the shot from great train robbery, i saw it in a book and i always thought it was really cool.  ive never seen the great train robbery as a matter of fact, and what you guys said about the shot in terms of story and stuff is right, i agree with you, that's what i think too, but upon my first viewing my immediate feeling was like "oh, look at what scorsese done".


keep in mind that i was four when it was released, and i never actually saw it until i was about thirteen, having just discovered marty.

[mutinyco]

Not a question of who I saw it with when I was 15, it's a common reaction from people who've seen it. And it doesn't look like Henry's looking at Tommy, but at the audience. The shot seems out of place and I think everybody I've ever seen it with has a strange reaction to it. Regardless of whether they get it. In fact, I think the only reason we're talking about it is because it stands out. It stands out because it doesn't fit.

It would've been funny actually if they'd equated a gangster trying to whack Henry with the flying newspaper -- the only thing he needs to duck now in boring suburbia.

And I've never met anybody who feels so strongly about Tommy's death. He was the biggest piece of shit of all of them. You see, unlike a lot of people, I've never had any interest in gansters or ganster movies. They're inherently about stupid people doing stupid things and usually in a violent way. I'm not particularly excited by their actions and I don't feel a great deal of compassion for them. If anything, I think movies have glamorized these people who are about as low and materialistic as it gets. Reread my arguments. They're pretty fuckin' valid.

[Alethia]

all the arguments are, but I still think the shot fits perfectly.

[thedog]

In fact, I think the only reason we're talking about it is because it stands out. It stands out because it doesn't fit.

Nah the only reason we're talking about it is because you think it doesn't fit, and we are all trying to tell you why it does fit, and you aren't listening to us. The points you are making are valid, but they lose all credibility when we realize you wouldn't like the movie anyway.

Besides, it would be really dumb if the last shot was just him picking up the paper and walking back inside. In fact, that would be such a terrible anticlimatic ending. It would also be pretty dumb if there were Great Train Robbery references throughout the film

And I've never met anybody who feels so strongly about Tommy's death. He was the biggest piece of shit of all of them

Um, I think you missed the point of what I wrote, but while we are on the subject, I think it's quite an accomplishment when a filmmaker can make the audience feel very sad about the death of such a terrible "piece of shit."

You see, unlike a lot of people, I've never had any interest in gansters or ganster movies.

Oh. Well... Nevermind then. You are obviously better than everyone else.

They're inherently about stupid people doing stupid things and usually in a violent way.

Yeah but watching people doing smart things all the time is so boring.

[mutinyco]

Um, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and would probably be better off just finding another panda to screw so your spieces doesn't become extinct. I do like Goodfellas. And if you've ever read anything of mine you'd know that. It doesn't change the fact that the shot doesn't belong. I just mentioned this debate to my roommate and he agreed. He knew exactly what I meant.

My points are totally valid and the fact that I do like the movie only serves to better reinforce them. I am listening to you, but you're not making an argument in response to support why it works other than an emphatic opinion. The movie's ending IS anticlimatic -- with or without the shot. IT HAS NO DRAMATIC CONTEXT. And you don't need multiple references to The Great Train Robbery throughout -- but to make a single reference THAT FAR into your film as your conclusion is weak, random, and poorly conceived.

As for feeling sad about Tommy's death, if that's what you felt, you've got worse problems than a bad filmic sense. He was a piece of shit. He died. I thought the overhead shot of his blood spilling was pretty at least. Watching smart people on film isn't necessarily interesting, however watching hours of dumb people has a distancing effect. It's essentially justifying their behavior -- just by alotting them the time. Like you said, you felt sorry for Tommy. What for? Because the director manipulated you to? You're that gullible?

[oakmanc234]

I didn't feel sorry for Tommy in 'Goodfellas' (I was glad they blasted the little prick) but I did feel sorry for Nicky (Pesci again) at the end of 'Casino' (and I hated that guy too). Only because of the sheer brutality involved (crying while watching his little brother get beaten to death before the same happens to him). I guess Scorcese manipulated me there. Successfully too.

[SoNowThen]

And I've never met anybody who feels so strongly about Tommy's death. He was the biggest piece of shit of all of them. You see, unlike a lot of people, I've never had any interest in gansters or ganster movies. They're inherently about stupid people doing stupid things and usually in a violent way.

Not to defend gangsters here or anything, but think about the people you care about in your life.... there's no one that other folks think is a jerk? You don't know anybody with big character flaws? We all have them, it may not be murder, but we tend to overlook the bad shit about people who are our friends, simply because, well, we like them. The beauty of this flick was that it let us sit in on this group of guys, and Henry, he knew Tommy was a hot-headed bastard, but look how much he likes him, they're buddies, Tommy makes him laugh, etc. Look how fucking sad Jimmy is when he finds out about Tommy. Forget for a second that Tommy was a rat bastard and realize that really, it's a shame when ANYBODY is caused pain, even a fucker who caused it in a lot of other people. I was not so much affected by Tommy's death than by Jimmy's reaction. It played a lot more truthful to me than a lot of bullshit movies where someone's relative dies, and they sit by the bed crying. Scorsese took these scumbags and pulled us into their world and gave us a unique look at them, so that we (me anyway) can feel just how terrible they probably felt when he died. This was one of their best friends. Think about all those mothers you see crying in the paper when their punk son gets shot in a drive-by. We always think "the little criminal deserved it", but to her, it's just her poor baby boy gone forever. It's not glamorizing it (Marty shows us the shit people end up in when they follow this lifestyle), it's putting us for a second on the other side of the fence. I think that, if you see a death/pain in a movie, and you don't feel for it, then the character was drawn too one-dimensional (ie. to be a "bad guy"), and that doesn't sit well with me. Tommy was a rounded character, maybe a violent prick, yes, but still with good points, as we all are. Good and bad, all at the same time. Essentially, human.

[Alethia]

that says it all.  i think this debate is now ended.

[coffeebeetle]

In fact, I think the only reason we're talking about it is because it stands out. It stands out because it doesn't fit.

Nah the only reason we're talking about it is because you think it doesn't fit, and we are all trying to tell you why it does fit, and you aren't listening to us. The points you are making are valid, but they lose all credibility when we realize you wouldn't like the movie anyway.

Besides, it would be really dumb if the last shot was just him picking up the paper and walking back inside. In fact, that would be such a terrible anticlimatic ending. It would also be pretty dumb if there were Great Train Robbery references throughout the film

And I've never met anybody who feels so strongly about Tommy's death. He was the biggest piece of shit of all of them

Um, I think you missed the point of what I wrote, but while we are on the subject, I think it's quite an accomplishment when a filmmaker can make the audience feel very sad about the death of such a terrible "piece of shit."

You see, unlike a lot of people, I've never had any interest in gansters or ganster movies.

Oh. Well... Nevermind then. You are obviously better than everyone else.

They're inherently about stupid people doing stupid things and usually in a violent way.

Yeah but watching people doing smart things all the time is so boring.

Hey, mutinyco has interviewed celebrities...he's obviously right about everything!  How dare you have an opinion that differs from him.

Seriously though, gangsters are just fascinating to watch.  Watching an accountant do really smart things with numbers isn't half as exciting as watching Tommy get into a ridiculously dumb argument with his compatriots over a plate of fucking Rigatoni.  Sorry, but that's just my take on this.

[mutinyco]

That's funny that you liked DeNiro's reaction. I always thought it was one of the worst examples of fake crying on film I've ever seen.

[Raikus]

"Stuck in the Middle with You" - Resevoir Dogs.

[ProgWRX]

obvious choice for me but its all i can think of :

Can We Still be Friends - to the murder scene in Vanilla Sky

[Sigur Rós]

Ballad Of the Easy Rider - Easy Rider

[Alethia]

and moving on........