Minority Report

Started by pumba, May 12, 2003, 05:30:21 PM

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SoNowThen

#30
May 20, 2003, 03:08:20 PM
Quote from: ewardmost people who don't like spielberg are fucking snobs.  not saying that their not entitled to their own opinion, which they are, but most of the haters do so without much conviction.

minority report was fuckin great.

How am I a snob because I don't get sucked into his bullshit feel-goody cinema? My conviction is: when I'm finished watching one of his movies I feel like I've been deprived of two hours of my life that I'll never get back, where I was not entertained, moved, or enlightened in any way.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Alethia

#31
May 20, 2003, 03:57:48 PM
let me rephrase:  it seems that most people who don't like spielberg do it simply because he's "spielberg" and because his films tend to make more money than most others.  ive talked to many many people who give the impression that they don't like him simply because of that.  now if his movies make you feel that way you described, then it's quite obvious why you don't like him and thats fine.  his movies dont do anything for you and thats that.  see youre not just saying he sucks because your afraid to say anything different.  i think he's very very talented and you don't.  thats that.  what you described feeling after his films is pretty much how i feel after...say a michael bay film.  and there are many many people out there who think michael bay is a genius (but come on, you gotta at least take spielberg over michael bay....).  remember, i said MOST spielberg haters are snobs...[/i]

SoNowThen

#32
May 20, 2003, 04:02:42 PM
Okay, that's cool.

I guess I would have to go with 'Berg over Bay, just because of overall cinematic accomplishments. But... this may draw some fire.... I honestly get more enjoyment out of The Rock than I have over any 'Berg movie.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

phil marlowe

#33
May 20, 2003, 04:09:16 PM
the problem with a lot of film lovers is that they get the major turn off by a director wich is commercial succesfull and/or makes big budget films. then they get all negative on it and then, even if the want it or not, they wont be able to see the film with an open mind.

SoNowThen

#34
May 20, 2003, 04:11:21 PM
I wish more of my fav directors had more success and got bigger budgets.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

godardian

#35
May 20, 2003, 04:35:49 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenI wish more of my fav directors had more success and got bigger budgets.

Absolutely. Problem is, though, to get a whole lot of money, you have to guarantee a blockbuster, which often leads to artistic/creative uselessness or failure. Spielberg (along with Lucas) created that paradigm, and he's fit rather seamlessly into it.

I do judge his films based on what they are and him as a so-called creative force based on what he's done, though. I don't resent him for his success or money or big budgets; I resent how bad his films tend to be, how overpraised, and how their almost inevitable commercial success then sets the bar for every other film-maker.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SoNowThen

#36
May 21, 2003, 08:51:40 AM
Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

NEON MERCURY

#37
July 04, 2003, 06:45:53 PM
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetI really wish I could debate someone on this movie, because I think it is a pure masterpiece. The thing is though, this topic is spouting more lines of hate than observance. Even the fucking title to the thread doesn't promise much in way of saying why it was bad or not up to par to the hype it is being given. That would be great.

The things I can comment on though:

Dialogue Cecil complained about being a little too cheesy: Done with purpose to capture the film noir feeling and structure the movie has. Its science fiction on the outside, but a film noir all the way in the mode of Double Indemnity. That dialogue and way of speaking was just the style for the genre. Dark City was similiar too. Personal feelings can say which one was more "hoaky" than the other, but followed the same streams.

Ending: That too, completely film noir. In film noir, it always the fight between the good and bad side, the light and the dark, and in most instances, the ending found the characters reaching the light and living happily ever after or whatever. I'm not saying it is the best creative decision to make, but it did have purpose and really, it is an ending that stands no match time wise to the rest of the film which a lot of people consider brilliant anyways. Not enough to judge an entire film by.

Actually, the reason I think most dissention comes from in Minority Report is that operates on a structure that has been for the most part dead for 50 years. Its not a bad decision, but Speilberg's and an interesting one because he is able to variatize his movie so much in way of editing, action and acting and storytelling even that it seems to be giving the final remarks on an entire genre while still perfectly acting as a film made now with the science fiction added in. But most things in this movie scream film noir and most dissention seems to be dislike of that entire genre instead of the movie specifically.

~rougerum




I AGREE w/THIS 100%  Good job!

mutinyco

...
#38
July 05, 2003, 10:57:34 AM
Yeah, Minority Report was the best, most assured piece of filmmaking in 2002. I don't really trust people who are anti-Spielberg. It's usually cause he's too successful. You're SUPPOSED to like his movies. That's why they're so successful.

Anybody who claims he's a hack couldn't tell a screwdriver from a hammer. He is shot-for-shot the best working filmmaker there is right now. Period. Imagine being in such command of your filmmaking that you actually smooth out your narrative, that you can constantly vary your visual approach and switch settings...

If you walked out of A.I. or Minority Report or Catch Me if You Can feeling like you hadn't been informed, like you hadn't learned, been made to think or entertained, then you're looking for the wrong things in movies. The first 2 are classics. They will be studied in time. Their ideas are so far beyond what we're seeing in films right now. And neither of them had HAPPY ENDINGS. IF YOU COULDN'T EVEN DISTINGUISH WHAT ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE AT THESE FILMS' CONCLUSIONS THEN YOU SHOULD GIVE UP AND GO BE A LITERARY CRITIC OR SOMETHING.

For my video review go to:

http://www.movienavigator.org/minorityreport1.htm
"I believe in this, and it's been tested by research: he who fucks nuns will later join the church."

-St. Joe

Cecil

#39
July 05, 2003, 11:18:11 AM
im always insulted when people make the assumption that i dont like a spielberg film just because hes spielberg. and by always making that assumption, you are yourselves doing the same thing youre blaming others of doing. i can say the same things about you: i hate it when people like spielberg just because hes spielberg. talk about sucking dick "oh, man, wasnt the latest spielberg flick a blast?" "whens it comming out?" "well it hasnt been shot yet, but im sure itll be great!" "yeah, cause spielberg made it!"

some of his films i like, most i dont. excuse me for having a fucking opinion.

yes, spielberg is probably the most talented director working today. does that mean i have to like his films? good for him, his piece of shit film minority report is well framed and well shot.

Alethia

#40
July 05, 2003, 11:22:00 AM
this argument has gotten a little old, doncha think?  some people like him, some people dont, lets move on...

MacGuffin

#41
July 05, 2003, 11:45:44 AM
Quote from: cecil b. dementedi hate it when people like spielberg just because hes spielberg. talk about sucking dick "oh, man, wasnt the latest spielberg flick a blast?" "whens it comming out?" "well it hasnt been shot yet, but im sure itll be great!" "yeah, cause spielberg made it!"

Insert PTA for Spielberg. Does that feeling only regard Spielberg, or the fanboy idea in general?
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

Cecil

#42
July 05, 2003, 02:01:46 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: cecil b. dementedi hate it when people like spielberg just because hes spielberg. talk about sucking dick "oh, man, wasnt the latest spielberg flick a blast?" "whens it comming out?" "well it hasnt been shot yet, but im sure itll be great!" "yeah, cause spielberg made it!"

Insert PTA for Spielberg. Does that feeling only regard Spielberg, or the fanboy idea in general?

with that, i was responding to this line:

Quote from: mutinycoI don't really trust people who are anti-Spielberg. It's usually cause he's too successful. You're SUPPOSED to like his movies. That's why they're so successful.

oh brother.

pta hasnt dissapointed me so far and if he ever does i wont be afraid to admit it.

bonanzataz

#43
July 05, 2003, 02:05:32 PM
but i will be.
The corpses all hang headless and limp bodies with no surprises and the blood drains down like devil's rain we'll bathe tonight I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls Demon I am and face I peel to see your skin turned inside out, 'cause gotta have you on my wall gotta have you on my wall, 'cause I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls collect the heads of little girls and put 'em on my wall hack the heads off little girls and put 'em on my wall I want your skulls I need your skulls I want your skulls I need your skulls

Cecil

#44
July 05, 2003, 02:12:52 PM
its okay, if you wear your gdidm suit, people will think hes the pta-hater
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