Movies about transsexuals.

[budgie]

Such a lot here, I'm overwhelmed. Thanks everyone. All those books look great, Mac, especially the first. I've just now picked up a huge volume from my library but only have it for the weekend. That personal story and photographic documentation sounds terrific though. I'm keen to read As Nature Made Him too.

I just remembered Orlando this morning. I didn't much like it (too arch) at the time but haven't ever seen it since so maybe it's time to give it another shot, with a new perspective. Ma Vie En Rose is just wonderful. I caught it on tv late one night and adored it.

As for discussion on this:

Gold Trumpet, I think whether your body (and I am talking the whole thing, not just the genitals, although obviously they are a focus for curiosity) is an issue for you depends on your own individual make-up and sense of identity. It isn't really about exciting or not, but about feeling right. I'm sure there are a lot of men for whom their bodies are something to think about, as mine is for me. I appreciate your perspective, though.

Cecil, I know. You always hear that the big problem for ftm is the prosthetic nature of the genitalia. I guess for mtf it's not being able to conceive. I'm wondering whether things are progressing here, though it's still such a taboo really that I doubt there's much work being done to help the situation.

cbrad, I love your description of pain! I was wondering about that specifically actually. Thanks. When I was a little girl I remember being out with my brother and straddling a fence and, cause I'd heard him and his mates say it, shouting 'Ooh, my balls!', at which he told me off.  

RK, I thought about tv movies, cause that always seems to be where these issues get 'dealt' with. But yeah they are so soapy usually. Don't know how I'd get to see Normal, though.

[Sigur Rós]

Also Flawless...didnt PSH have a vagina? Or was he just a drag queen? Maybe it was sposed to be ambiguous.

´

He was going to use the stolen money to get a sex-change! So by definition that would make him a transsexual

[MacGuffin]

mac knows way too much about this.

I can't help it if I'm in touch with my feminine side.

Also Flawless...didnt PSH have a vagina? Or was he just a drag queen? Maybe it was sposed to be ambiguous.

´

He was going to use the stolen money to get a sex-change! So by definition that would make him a transsexual

Then John Cazale in "Dog Day Afternoon" was one too.

As for discussion on this:

budgie, I'm more curious why you're not interested about being a woman anymore rather than the want to be a man? Is there a certain level of vanity a woman has to be at all the time that you are tired of? I guess there is less focus on men's looks (including body), thinking about Fight Club when the guys get onto the bus and see the washboard abs ad and Jack says, "Is that what a man looks like?" and they laugh. Meaning it's more attitude that makes one a man. But terms like "Clothes do not make that man," "Be a man," "Grow some balls" or "Man of the house" suggests, or rather, expects, that you have to be tough and take charge all the time regardless of body size.

And, as always, you are most welcome.

[Sigur Rós]

Then John Cazale in "Dog Day Afternoon" was one too.

Wasn't he???

[budgie]

mac knows way too much about this.

I can't help it if I'm in touch with my feminine side.

As for discussion on this:

budgie, I'm more curious why you're not interested about being a woman anymore rather than the want to be a man? Is there a certain level of vanity a woman has to be at all the time that you are tired of? I guess there is less focus on men's looks (including body), thinking about Fight Club when the guys get onto the bus and see the washboard abs ad and Jack says, "Is that what a man looks like?" and they laugh. Meaning it's more attitude that makes one a man. But terms like "Clothes do not make that man," "Be a man," "Grow some balls" or "Man of the house" suggests, or rather, expects, that you have to be tough and take charge all the time regardless of body size.

I'm not 'not interested in being a woman anymore', if you are talking (which you seem to be) about gender rather than sex (as I was originally). I am interested in how having a male body and going through the hormone treatment etc would perhaps change my perception of things and make me feel different to the way I do now, but really it's more to do with feeling more yourself, like putting on the right set of clothes. Your question assumes I feel like a 'woman' as opposed to a 'man', but do you honestly think it's that simple?

I like dressing up sometimes (don't we all?) and being/looking feminine, if that's what you're talking about when you mention 'a certain level of vanity' (I'm sorry, but I'm not really sure what you mean), but it's not the whole deal.

Fight Club is apparently questioning the way men are being pressured to conform to certain ideals to the extent that women have always been, but really that ideal of a man as not caring about his looks is just as much of a pressure isn't it? The joke's on Tyler really, which is the point, I think, reinforced by Brad's obvious narcissism. So then it comes down to which role (literally) are you most comfortable playing, the man or the woman. But none of us are ever really one or the other, we just try to fit in. I identify with men and women, I don't feel that I make a very convincing woman, and if I imagine being a man sex-wise I feel more comfortable. It doesn't mean I would make a convincing man in some circles, but maybe I could do/experience some things more easily that are difficult for me at present.

[Pubrick]

i don't blame ya. a lifetime of shrivelled up british men would be pretty underwhelming.

[budgie]

i don't blame ya. a lifetime of shrivelled up british men would be pretty underwhelming.

Suck my dick you ignorant fucker.

[Tiff]

a lifetime of shrivelled up british men would be pretty underwhelming.

British men? wtf?

[budgie]

This resurrection reminds me...

Serious, serious question, purely out of curiosity and not looking to bash anyone: reading the book I got out on this topic, I was intrigued by one of the case studies' comment about the way his perceptions and feelings changed as she followed hormone treatment. Everybody talked about increased libido and aggression, but he also added that whereas before the therapy she would be made angry by men objectifying women, as a man he found it fun and couldn't understand why the women didn't enjoy it too.

I find that really interesting, because it says that this kind of pleasure is at least partly biological. I can well understand the pleasure in fantasising about women as I enjoy pornographic images of women, but I'm curious about the this idea that the women should enjoy being seen as a fantasy object. I'm ambivalent about it - I can see harmlessness and harm, and it does sometimes make me angry. Am I wrong to get upset? The way you see it, as biological men, does it confuse you that women don't enjoy being sex objects?

I just really want to know. Maybe it's just the type of person this guy was anyhow, but it's weird to think that your hormones could change your outlook and understanding of others like that.

[MacGuffin]

I'm curious about the this idea that the women should enjoy being seen as a fantasy object. I'm ambivalent about it - I can see harmlessness and harm, and it does sometimes make me angry. Am I wrong to get upset? The way you see it, as biological men, does it confuse you that women don't enjoy being sex objects?

You are not wrong to get upset, and as an intelligent woman, you should be. But men mainly set on the superficiality of good looks seem to believe that just because I find you attractive, you should take that as a compliment because I would want to fuck you.

And I've seen women who fall for it and roll over with their legs open. Can you explain that to me? How is it that some women can't see the obvious 'come-on' and go along with it? Insercuities about themselves? Toying with the man; building him up only to cut him off? Horniness? Or plain stupidity?

[ludovico]

Then John Cazale in "Dog Day Afternoon" was one too.

Wasn't he???

John Cazale wasn't the one getting the sex change, it was Pacino's male wife Leon (the voice of skeleton jack).

[chainsmoking insomniac]

I might have missed it, but did anyone mention Hedwig and the Angry Inch? That movie cracks me the fuck up.  Definitely in my top five.

[budgie]

And I've seen women who fall for it and roll over with their legs open. Can you explain that to me? How is it that some women can't see the obvious 'come-on' and go along with it? Insercuities about themselves? Toying with the man; building him up only to cut him off? Horniness? Or plain stupidity?

Obviously it's for all those reasons, and no single reason.

What you're assuming is that 'falling for it' is necessarily 'stupid', though. From the way you describe the possible options, you seem to see the whole thing as some kind of fight or game that someone has to win, as though it's always a case of 'toying' or trying to trick the other person. Try considering a situation where the woman who seems to not see the obvious actually does, and also sees the man playing his game and enjoys watching him thinking he's getting away with something, and yes, also gets off playing her own kind of game. You wouldn't know it, but there's also intense joy in risk-taking and pushing your own limits, not just others'.

But, MacGuffin, stop being such a coward. What do you really want me to confess? Why I fell for you? Why I kept falling for you? Why I don't want anything to do with you now? You're such a pervert. I love it.

[MacGuffin]

But, MacGuffin, stop being such a coward. What do you really want me to confess? Why I fell for you? Why I kept falling for you? Why I don't want anything to do with you now? You're such a pervert. I love it.

And the string of misunderstandings between us continues.

You know, not everything I post for you, a self-proclaimed narcissist, is about you. Although this one entirely is.

But what is a coward if not one who knows the questions (even though there aren't any being asked), but avoids giving the answers and the person asking them?