The Dark Knight

[Gold Trumpet]

but does this mistake not show how hard you look for the negative in everything?

No, it does not. It just shows mistakes happen. I've raved about films for specific details that I was wrong about. It happens.

i wonder what it was you expected to like.  because judging from the trailers and as a follow up to Begins, it should have produced fulfillment.

No. As most everyone agrees, the film is different than Batman Begins. Plus the trailers don't advertise the unecessary amount of time spent to details in the film that has nothing to do with Batman and Joker. The trailers just show the Joker and Batman so as far I'm concerned they are misleading.

[Pozer]

just curious why you expected to like it.  i wonder sometimes if when a flaw comes about in a movie, it provokes you to focus the majority of your attention on the ones to come.  cause that is no way to enjoy a movie.  i would've given up on them long ago if this was my case.  do you ever wonder why you're in the minority most of the time?  even when giving credit to fluff you are, yes?  maybe the answer is you discovered you love to be in the minority long ago and just kept at it.  the mistake you made here seemed like such an obvious one not to make therefore seems like you are on a quest to find flaws.  the movie is not perfect.  this doesn't mean it is pretty terrible.  and the reality is they didn't set out to make a pretty terrible movie or try to make fluff.  they aimed high and achieved greatly as your friends or whoever you saw it with most likely expressed.  but the clockwork in your head seems to receive and digest the good qualities negatively because the imperfections started at whatever point they started at.  maybe you need to delete some cookies & files in your head cuz it's remembering and recognizing bad movies you saw at the time you're watching decent ones. 

i kid, i kid.  this all comes from my perspective and is strictly curiosity.     

[tpfkabi]

i just took the Burton Batman as the legit story having never read any of the comics, but it presents quite a different situation than Nolan's:

The Joker is directly responsible for killing Bruce's parents
and Batman is directly responsible for dropping The Joker in the vat (although not likely purposefully) and causing his physical state.

from my extensive research **cough**wikipedia**cough** i garner that it's never said in the comics that The Joker was responsible for the elder Wayne's demise.

comic fans feel free to tear this apart, i really don't know.

[Kal]

I wonder if the reviews are driving this, the hype, Heath Ledger, or what it is... but this movie just made 200 million in 5 days, which is incredible. Its on route to make way over 400 million, but even considering that everyone who already saw it says they will see it again, who knows.

I guess we discussed before that a lot of people in this board dont give a shit about these things, but anyone who is trying to make movies for a living has a lot to learn analyzing these cases.

[Gold Trumpet]

just curious why you expected to like it.

Because I liked a lot of Batman Begins and felt that with Batman now developed they would get into better themes and adventures with him. A lot of my problems with Begins has to do with the filmmakers feeling it necessary to explain every iorta of detail to how he came about. Some was necessary, but much of it wasn't. I felt the film series would take off because of that. 

i wonder sometimes if when a flaw comes about in a movie, it provokes you to focus the majority of your attention on the ones to come.

Sometimes it makes me wonder if the flaw will continue and so I look for that, but with Dark Knight I spent the first hour wondering where the film was going with the storyline. I wasn't into the story but still relaxed and letting the images just sink in. Once I saw how stupid the first half of the film was then I started to dissect the story more. Later scenes got me back into the flow because I started to enjoy the plot, but I realized too many mistakes were made to make the overall film good.

do you ever wonder why you're in the minority most of the time?

I know why. I look for things in movies to be good that most other people don't have as high priorities. Having been on the board for a while I can tell which films will make an impact on the board when they will do little for me. People on the board care more about technical details in the filmmaking than I do. I consider style important, but I don't consider it to be so important. Films still haven't broken the three act play structure where you can solely criticize a film on its stylistic content. I think style a lot of times makes people overlook other things. I look at a lot of things within the film, like story, characterization and purpose of content. You can talk for a while about those things without mentioning style. If I was dealing with non-linear experimental films then I would be totally into the stylistic questions.

even when giving credit to fluff you are, yes?

I just don't turn on my critical hat for thinking films, but I'm also the kind of guy who admits he has a soft spot for action films and the like. But, with a film like Iron Man, I think a lot of disfavor on the board came because the film was considered so good and it was just what it was. Like Burton's original Batman, it has no major innovation with the structure at all. It is a basic action film so I believe a lot of people here were confused with the praise. It held firm with a genre I liked and I loved the little things the director did to change things. The changes weren't as dramatic as Dark Knight but it made the film more enjoyable to me.

maybe the answer is you discovered you love to be in the minority long ago and just kept at it.

I really only post when I feel I have something to say. I agree I have a different vantage point with movies in general, but I don't force myself to post disagreements to just do it. I've been on this board since the beginning and only really post when I feel I can contribute something. Usually that comes with a disagreement. I saw Wall E and had nothing to add with what's already been said. I do go on marathon arguments about certain movies, but I also avvoid numerous topics and don't care to post on them. I like that my posts are a little longer because I don't believe I'll ever post as frequently as some. I check the board everyday but am never tempted to just post to post.

the mistake you made here seemed like such an obvious one not to make therefore seems like you are on a quest to find flaws.  the movie is not perfect.  this doesn't mean it is pretty terrible.  and the reality is they didn't set out to make a pretty terrible movie or try to make fluff.  they aimed high and achieved greatly as your friends or whoever you saw it with most likely expressed.

I saw the film with people who were experts of the Dark Knight comic books. I just found out today they were very unhappy with the film. I felt I was alone because I was coming from a different viewpoint than them, but I just got back from hearing how upset they were. One couple who came sorta liked it but I'm surprised I didn't hate it the most out of my group. The hardcore comic book fans did. The truth is the more people I talk to the more I find out not everyone really loved it. Lots of people had probems.

but the clockwork in your head seems to receive and digest the good qualities negatively because the imperfections started at whatever point they started at.  maybe you need to delete some cookies & files in your head cuz it's remembering and recognizing bad movies you saw at the time you're watching decent ones.

The point of my long reviews is to make you to stop with the bad assumptions. It's suppose to lay out why I disliked the film for such and such reasons. The fact you can't accept what i say is all about you and has nothing to do with me. If anything I should suspect all of you who say with three sentences or less why you love something and continually question me and feed me shit about everything I say. You guys don't criticize what I say, but go on long diatrabes about your weird ideas to why I say them. It's ridiculous. You can question anyone with such an intent of focus. My reviews give people enough evidence to question my opinions.  

i kid, i kid.  this all comes from my perspective and is strictly curiosity.     

You've always had me on your radar. I never knew you existed until I was repeatedly getting slammed by you. Alexandro will go after my reviews, but you fit the demographic of people who will go after me. Honestly, you don't bug me as much as others because you do come with a little bit of a sense of humor so I appreciate that.

I'll always be happy to explain myself. I don't try to hide behind any veil of arrogance. I say things you may say are arrogant, but I always believe I have to defend and prove what I say. I think I should considering I do take on negative reviews more often because I feel they are more useful.

[Ravi]

Realize what I commented on. All I said is that the film had no parallels to Batman being Bush and Joker being Bin Laden. That's going too far. I understand a lot of genre films like to recall 9/11 in non-specific ways when dealing with brutal subjects in a NYC setting. That's understandable. Nobody will take the film and interpret it as political but films have always recalled tragic settings going back to Godzilla movies with the atomic bombings. I accept that but I believe its wrong to get into political talk which is what you do with bringing up Bush and Bin Laden.

Action and horror films (not to mention comic books) frequently tap into the contemporary political climate, whether or not the audience notices it.  Not that most HW films are allegories like The Crucible, but the political element is usually there in some form when a film has villains and heroes on a grand scale.  The hospital exploding in such a visceral matter in The Dark Knight clearly was meant to evoke 9/11.

I loved The Dark Knight.  Yes, there are flaws, but for me the film was greater than the sum of its parts.  It didn't feel like I was watching a Comic Book Movie.  The film totally brought these characters to life.  I agree, though, that the last half hour or so was anti-climactic.  Aaron Eckhart (and even Christian Bale) were overshadowed by Heath Ledger as the Joker.

[Gold Trumpet]

Realize what I commented on. All I said is that the film had no parallels to Batman being Bush and Joker being Bin Laden. That's going too far. I understand a lot of genre films like to recall 9/11 in non-specific ways when dealing with brutal subjects in a NYC setting. That's understandable. Nobody will take the film and interpret it as political but films have always recalled tragic settings going back to Godzilla movies with the atomic bombings. I accept that but I believe its wrong to get into political talk which is what you do with bringing up Bush and Bin Laden.

Action and horror films (not to mention comic books) frequently tap into the contemporary political climate, whether or not the audience notices it.  Not that most HW films are allegories like The Crucible, but the political element is usually there in some form when a film has villains and heroes on a grand scale.  The hospital exploding in such a visceral matter in The Dark Knight clearly was meant to evoke 9/11.

Do you really argue me or agree with me? I pretty much agree with you while feeling what I originally said was accurate too. The Godzilla reference, I believe, is the best one. It speaks to a climate that was in Japan after the Atomic Bomb dropping. It doesn't specifically depict the situation, but reminds viewers of what kind of world they now live in.

[modage]

i think its a little bit hypocritical to give Iron Man a pass because it had no aspirations to be great and beat down the Dark Knight because it did.  shouldn't Iron Man be punished for laziness?  better to try and fall short then not to try at all.

[Pozer]

rougerum, roger what you said.

[Gold Trumpet]

i think its a little bit hypocritical to give Iron Man a pass because it had no aspirations to be great and beat down the Dark Knight because it did.  shouldn't Iron Man be punished for laziness?  better to try and fall short then not to try at all.

No, because intention matters. I can't fault Iron Man for what it doesn't try to be. And no form of Iron Man before this film was really masterpiece material so its not like the new film was skimping or anything. It tried to be entertaining and funny and I felt it accomplished that. When I say my critical senses weren't alerted I meant I understood the film was only trying to be a piece of entertainment. You watch the film differently. Dark Knight was trying to be innovative in serious ways so it was asking to be criticized on a higher level. The film asks to be applauded with more serious works so it deserves the scrutiny.

[Pas]

This just in! The Dark Knight OFFICIALLY named best movie of all time

Yes indeed dear movie connoisseurs, you have casted your votes and after mere hours out : The Dark Knight has taken the #1 spot in the IMDB Top 250 list.

Thank you for your participation !

[I Love a Magician]

i like reading what you have to say (though i never agree with you) so Keep Ya Head Up

[Ravi]

Do you really argue me or agree with me? I pretty much agree with you while feeling what I originally said was accurate too. The Godzilla reference, I believe, is the best one. It speaks to a climate that was in Japan after the Atomic Bomb dropping. It doesn't specifically depict the situation, but reminds viewers of what kind of world they now live in.

A little of both.  Bush = Batman and Bin Laden = Joker is too specific, but that kind of parallel might be useful in discussing the political climate within the film.  Its certainly not a 1:1 correlation.

[bonanzataz]

this movie was fucking gaaaaay.

i want to believe that you guys know what you're talking about, but after reading this thread, i trust no one. a better movie must be opening up this summer. but what? i suppose the truth is out there. somewhere.

[picolas]

Do you really argue me or agree with me? I pretty much agree with you while feeling what I originally said was accurate too. The Godzilla reference, I believe, is the best one. It speaks to a climate that was in Japan after the Atomic Bomb dropping. It doesn't specifically depict the situation, but reminds viewers of what kind of world they now live in.

A little of both.  Bush = Batman and Bin Laden = Joker is too specific, but that kind of parallel might be useful in discussing the political climate within the film.  Its certainly not a 1:1 correlation.

i was never saying the movie makes a direct, intentional comparison to bush v. bin laden. i was saying that the fact people can draw those parallels credibly means there's a deepness to the story and the relationships in the film beyond 'just talk'.