Batman Begins

[Gold Trumpet]

I've hardly looked at this thread, so if anything comes off as running dialogue to what everyone is saying then I really am that lame.

Anyways, having seen it a third time, what is impressive is how fresh it still was on my third time. Acting wise, the one person who diminished was Katie Holmes. Her Dawson Creek casting really was perfect. She's still an older actor than she looks and when she tries to play adult roles, she comes off with little sway or interest. A teenager's body too.

On the lack of focus to the bad guys, I appreciated it. Each bad guy was picked and used as building blocks to really detail Batman and why he become who he is. As far as I know, no super hero has ever used villians to such a sensible tool. They never try to. Super hero movies are just build up of unbelievable characters to a point so basically they can fight each other. This film actually follows the role of a true character movie.

Also no major criminal of interest in the film so the fact Scarecrow is nothing more than a doctor at Arkham doing hustle work for a bigger criminal actually suggests some realism in a hopless genre. But mainly it just allows the film to flow better without getting invested in bad scenarios of how someone became evil due to whatever freak accident they can make up based on limited scientific information. The Spiderman clause really has been over done.

Also proves to me the best super hero movies have little influence from their comic book origins. Claiming the first two Superman movies the ideal, Batman follows suit in traditional storytelling that has little to do with snappy edits or over the top, quick (again) snappy lines. This film isn't very realistic or very deep, but it uses enough drama to tell its fantastic story a little bit better. Realism is in this film really is its decor.

Looking forward to the sequel, I think the title could be "The Joker" instead of "Batman". This film gave us Batman's story. It only makes sense for the second to really give us the story of Batman's arch nemesis in its entirety, even if Batman will be entangled in it. I'm just glad this series has the promise to really push forward in a story and not a franchise.

Basic, blah thoughts.

[Brazoliange]

nicely said

[Two Lane Blacktop]

I finally saw this today, and I admit I had my doubts about it going in, but it absolutely kicked my ass.  Awesome movie.  

2LB

[MacGuffin]

Libertarians are on Batman's side
The Caped Crusader's latest film exploits strike a chord with advocates of individualism.

Holy smaller government and lower taxes, Batman!

"Batman Begins," Christopher Nolan's brooding comic-book blockbuster, has been embraced by its fans for many things: Nolan's dark, shadowy aesthetic; the detail with which he has teased out Batman's mythic origins; and Christian Bale's wholly credible performance as the psychologically complex billionaire-turned-Dark Knight.

But "Batman Begins" has become something of a cult hit among fans of free markets, individualism and Ayn Rand, among other things. Perform a cursory Google search with the terms "Batman Begins" and "capitalism," for instance, and you come up with a blogosphere love-fest, with conservative and especially libertarian commentators praising the film's pro-business, anti-statist themes.

The film explores how Bruce Wayne, an otherwise mild-mannered heir to a billion-dollar fortune, became Gotham City's Caped Crusader, representing his good-hearted parents as paragons of noblesse oblige, who use their wealth to build a high-tech monorail system for Gotham, among other civic projects.

When the Waynes are murdered in front of their young son and their killer is sent not to prison but to a psychiatric hospital, Bruce goes away for seven years, trains as a vigilante and returns to Gotham — now a cesspool of criminal and governmental corruption — to mete out justice.

Along the way, he stages a hostile takeover of the publicly traded Wayne Enterprises, puts a dent in an evil mental health system, proves that individual initiative and guts are more effective than entrenched bureaucracies (in this case, Gotham's compromised police department) and, perhaps most notably, turns the typical Hollywood trope of rich-businessman-as-villain on its immaculately coiffed head.

David Boaz, executive vice president of the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, saw "Batman Begins" recently at the encouragement of a friend at the Objectivist Center, which, according to its website, champions "reason, individualism, freedom and achievement."

Boaz was happily struck by the fact that the hero was a businessman, he says, "but I think what was more interesting ... is that the movie takes a strong stand that some things are evil, some people are evil. Crime is bad. And criminals need to be punished, not to be understood and coddled and let out of jail for more therapy."

Boaz says he was gratified as well to see a heroic portrayal of individualism and the idea "that it's up to each person to take a stand and [that] each person has his own talents, abilities and opportunities. Bruce Wayne, because of his money and training, has more talent and opportunities to do these things than most of us, but it's made clear that it's important for everybody to take a stand."

Although Hollywood often takes the rap for touting reflexively left-wing pieties, Boaz says the ideas that run through "Batman Begins" actually aren't that rare at the multiplex or on TV; he cites such hits as "The Aviator," with its multimillionaire hero, and "The Incredibles," with its sly critiques of egalitarianism ("If everybody's special, then nobody is"), as only the most recent examples.

"America is basically a libertarian country," Boaz says, "so Americans are going to put libertarian themes into the art they create, and sometimes it's more explicit and sometimes it's less so.

"But it's not a big surprise to see individualism, anti-totalitarianism and fighting for freedom and social tolerance showing up in American art."

[Two Lane Blacktop]

"America is basically a libertarian country," Boaz says, "so Americans are going to put libertarian themes into the art they create, and sometimes it's more explicit and sometimes it's less so.

Psst...  who's going to tell this doofus that this Batman was written, directed, and largely acted by Brits?  (Be gentle...  he probably hasn't been out of his parents' basement in a while.)

2LB

[MacGuffin]

Batman Sequel Game Plan
The latest rumors about the Dark Knight's return.

The online rumor mill has already kicked into overdrive on the inevitable Batman sequels. There have been some interesting casting rumors flying around (such as Paul Bettany or Sean Penn as The Joker) and just as unsubstantiated but far less believable ones (like Justin Timberlake as Two-Face).

As it was during the long development and production period for Batman Begins, Batman-on-Film remains the leading authority on what's happening with the Dark Knight onscreen. BoF now reports from a longtime, trusty source that the Bat-sequels might film back-to-back, a la the sequels to Pirates of the Caribbean and Back to the Future.

"This makes sense as the 2 stories are going to be connected. Whether Mr. Bale will be able to handle all that time in the Bat suit is another matter of course," claims Bof's source.

The two stories the scooper refers to is another rumor that BoF first reported. Apparently, the gist of the follow-ups is that, with The Joker "introduced" at the end of Begins, the second film follows Batman's first battle with the Clown Prince of Crime. In addition to (a still not yet commissioner) Jim Gordon, Batman will be aided by Gotham's new district attorney, Harvey Dent. You may recall that Dent's predecessor, Finch (Larry Holden), was killed near the end of Begins. The third film reportedly follows Dent's ill-fated prosecution of The Joker, where acid will transform Dent into the twisted Two-Face.

Besides Timberlake, the rumored contenders to portray Harvey Dent include Guy Pearce and Liev Schreiber (The Manchurian Candidate).

[fletch]

Loved BB.  Cilian Murphy kicks ass.

And Vincent Cassell IS the Joker.

[Sigur Rós]

Does anyone know where to find pictures from the set in Iceland. They filmed at Skaftafell in Austerland (east Iceland) where I were a week ago. So I really enjoyed the part filmed there. Can't wait for the sequel! Let's hope Nolan, Bale, Freeman, Murphy and Cane is back.

[MacGuffin]

We've gotten word from sources on the contents of the 2-disc DVD set (tentative street date 10/18 ), which we now expect to include anamorphic widescreen video, Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, audio commentary with director Christopher Nolan and co-writer David Goyer, 10 behind-the-scenes featurettes (including The Journey Begins, Genesis of the Bat, Path to Discovery, Shaping Mind and Body, Gotham City Rises, Cape and Cowl, The Tumbler, Saving Gotham City, Reflections on Writing and Digital Batman), the film's teaser and theatrical trailers and at least a few Easter eggs. Most of this information appears to be confirmed by a quick search of the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) website. The BBFC reviews film and DVD content in advance of release and issues ratings (much like the MPAA does in the U.S. for theatrical films).

[MacGuffin]

The Joker is a Virgin?
Steve Carrell addresses those Batman rumors!

The chit-chat these days around the Internet water cooler is that Steve Carrell (TV's The Daily Show, Anchorman) is in the running for the role of The Joker in the next Batman movie.

Carrell's first leading role in a feature film is in The 40-Year-Old Virgin, which opens August 19th. Carrell also is attached to star in the big-screen remake of Get Smart, which is being produced by Batman Begins' Charles Roven.

Batman-on-Film first reported that Warner Bros. "wants to get someone relatively known, and can do comedy and drama. One guy brought up the idea of Steve Carell ... and the studio is starting to like the idea." BoF adds, however, that "Carell is not one of the actors who are being screentested [for the role of The Joker] this Fall or early Winter."

IGN FilmForce attended a press junket today for The 40-Year-Old Virgin and here's what Carrell himself had to say about The Joker buzz. "I just heard that for the first time this morning and I had no… Yeah! That would be hilar - I would love to do that! But I doubt that it's true. (Laughs) ... No, he's [possibly Charles Roven] never said anything about that, so I think that's probably completely fabricated. But I love it. I love the rumor. That would be cool. (laughs)"

So there you have it.

BoF adds "that one of the 'big names' said to be in the mix to play The Joker, isn't. ... 'Don't look for another 'Nicholson' situation this time,' a sourced informed BOF. The actor(s) that is/are getting a screentest - according more than one BOF source - would not be considered a 'star' or a 'big name' per se."

The thesps most oft-mentioned for The Joker nowadays are Sean Penn, Paul Bettany and unknown Lachy Hulme.

Moviehole, meanwhile, "can finally debunk reports that Isla Fisher is up for a role in the sequel. Apparently there's no love interest even pencilled in for the film yet, so it's too early to even talk about who'd be donning the dress in such a part, says an insider."

[MacGuffin]

Scarecrow in Batman 2?
Cillian Murphy talks about a Batman return.

As talk brews of an impending sequel to Batman Begins, speculation on which cast members may return and which new characters will be a part of the sequel is swirling around the internet.

IGN FilmForce was on hand for the Red Eye junket at the Regent Beverly Wilshire this weekend where we had the chance to ask Cillian Murphy about returning to the role of Scarecrow.

"If they decide to make another Batman I'd love to be in it. The main attraction to me for that film was Chris Nolan directing it, but I don't know what I'm gonna do next…"

Murphy is indeed signed for sequels should producers decide to leverage his option. "I think they have options on us, yes."

I asked Murphy whether he thought that a sequel might further explore the back story of Dr. Jonathan Crane. "Yeah. That would be cool, wouldn't it? I'd love to do that. I just read - DC sent me all the comics. He was one of the oldest villains from the comic books, so I read all of those. That's where you get all the back story, you know?"

Since playing Scarecrow, Murphy says that his life hasn't changed that much. "Not really, you know? People tend to be very sweet. In Ireland, obviously the level of recognition is quite high, and people tend to be very sweet. I have quite a quiet life. I don't tend to go to openings or parties or any of that stuff, so as a result you don't tend to end up in the paper, then as a result people don't have such a huge recognition of you…"

Playing one of the legendary Batman villains undoubtedly opens the door to comic conventions and the like. "I did Comic-Con last year. That was mad. That was quite overwhelming… [The] press conference was, like, 6,000 people… It was f***ing crazy. With those, for the comic book movies, obviously because people have so much invested in these characters for so long. They really, really want you to treat them well, you know, so you really feel that… Yeah, of course you want to give back to the fans and everything because they're the people you're making it for."

[modage]

I just remembered that I never reviewed this.  I really liked Batman Begins but I didn't love it.  I was a little disappointed it was not the ultimate/definitive Batman film I had been hearing & hoping it was going to be and something about it kept me at an arms length.  In fact, and perhaps I'm in the minority here, I still prefer Batman and Batman Returns to this film.

The fight scenes were too disorienting.  Rachel was unneccesary. Scarecrow was underused. Ras was overused. Bale's voice was a little strange (and unnatural) in the suit. I kinda prefer Keatons bat-voice. Or the one from the Animated Series. They spent too much time in Ras mountain hideout.  Gotham still felt isolated and didn't seem to 'breathe' like a real city.  Little nitpicks, I guess.

But even beyond those, I felt the movie was missing certain beats I think would've helped it a great deal. The movie needed Bruce to attempt to fight crime without his Bat-costume to discover that he NEEDS the costume to make the criminals afraid of him (like in Year One). Otherwise, why go to SUCH lengths right off the bat? He needed to try to foil some thugs and almost get killed doing it. THEN before the Falcone round-up being the FIRST Batman sighting there should've been a short montage (like Spider-Man) showing Batman starting to clean up the city and starting a groundswell of rumors about him. Is he real? Is he crazy? You know, from the criminals up to the police force it should've showed the word getting out and people being interested. Perhaps Nolan & Goyer stayed away from this because it was touched on in the first Batman film, but without it, it feels too isolated.  

His relationship with Gordon also shouldn't have been so easy. He wouldn't have known he could trust Gordon so easily and Gordon CERTAINLY wouldn't have been so trusting of a vigilante without knowing a little more about him. All that should've culminated with the Falcone arrest. It would've probably taken about 4 minutes they could've easily shaved off the training during the first hour and I think would've improved the film greatly.

I loved many of the supporting characters and thought Gordon especially but also Falcone, Crane and Fox could've all used more screentime. Though that would've made the movie even longer. I also thought for the romance to be more convincing that could've used a little strenghtening as well, but it was sort of shoehorned into the story and unneccesary though Holmes was still pretty good at what she was given. They definitely could've done without that angle.  So the movie was probably a little too crowded with characters and stuff to the point where the big plot to destroy Gotham felt a little out of place with the rest of the film. Taking down the corrupt police force and starting to restore Gotham would've been enough.

With all the work they did to ground the film in reality I guess maybe I wanted a little more of a grand presentation with things like the score (a Batman theme somewhere?) Or the villlain, the Joker is just so much more interesting. Though I can understand why they wanted to focus on Batman, they sort of shortchanged Ras and Scarecrow and Falcone in the process by having all of them. Though I see how they were linking everything in the movie with the 'fear' theme but it got a little crowded even if they werent all action figure villains. The twist with Ras was interesting and I didn't really see it coming.  One of my biggest pet peeve's was letting Rachel into the Batcave.  Can ONE superhero movie go by without someone learning his identity?

What did I love?

I loved the approach they took with the first Batman scene as far as playing it like a horror movie.  That was something that we had never seen before and the scene was executed perfectly.  Bale, despite my early reservations proved to be a great Bruce Wayne & Batman.  The acting all around was top-notch, the material was treated seriously & the focus on Bruce Wayne's character was what helped the movie connect on an emotional level.  (Like I mentioned elsewhere, I teared up when Bruce's parents were killed).  And like many others, probably my favorite part of the movie was the damn last 30 seconds!  THAT was truly perfect.  

I guess from the people involved/early word/pictures/trailers/reviews, I had built in my head the perfect (Batman) film, which was not what I got.  But over time I've come to look at the movie for what it really is, a very good movie but not a perfect one.  So overall an A maybe? or A- (where I wanted an A+.) So this may not have been the definitive Batman film but I have hope that the next one will be.

[awesome4]

DVD News: http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=1&c=7452&n=1&burl=

[modage]

damnit! i like the single disc art better.  just like spider-man (with full-screen).

[fletch]

The Joker is a Virgin?
Steve Carrell addresses those Batman rumors!
The thesps most oft-mentioned for The Joker nowadays are Sean Penn, Paul Bettany and unknown Lachy Hulme.

Sean Penn as the Joker?  LOL....Paul Bettany wouldn't be bad, but Sean Penn?  Come on now.