Irreversible

[pete]

see, now you're just hurting my feelings.

Fuck, never seen the movie (waiting for video) but not only does Pete have a kick ass avatar, but I'm a fan now because he can bring some good arguing to the board.

~rougerum

It's too bad he has nothing original or interesting to say.

[cowboykurtis]

this film was a pudrid, burlap sack of SHIT... if you like this movie, i feel somewhat bad for you -- bad taste runs deep as blood -- it ca not be changed.

[chainsmoking insomniac]

Hey priceless, what's your avatar of???

[modage]

are you serious?  if you are, its from irreversible.

[onoff]

pete
let's start with "a universal mistake" that i thought exploitation as a genre...

onoff
exploitation is not a genre. It became known as a "genre" ever since this term was wrongfully associated to the more risqué,pretentious and excessive kind of films. (i spit on your grave fits in that category for example).But anyway, associating the term 'exploitation' as a genre is and always will be a monumental error.

here's another example, of what i call "a universal mistake" (or frequent,common mistake)...French fries are not originally from France, but, due to the populas' obtuse knowledge de la chose.They still can't compute that the so called French fries came from Belgium's flatland.

pete
along with i dunno, most major film scholars and dozens of books that have been written on the subject..

onoff
dozens? probably more..(much more)..But I couldn't care less since film scholars' savoir of "exploitation" is inefficacious, simply because  it never was a genre to begin with.

pete
Did you just compare me to a brainwashed Hitler youth? what's going on here.

onoff
Did I?

I said:[/i]for ex, jewish is not a race, but a religion...a good majority of people can't make the distinction between the two.

So no, I didn't 'compare' you Pete, I gave you an example..You accidentally misread the phrase in question.

pete
Then somehow you're able to link believing exploitation as a genre to Roman films where the meaning thumb up thumb down gets mixed up.

onoff
I didn't Pete...I was in fact comparing 2 universal common mistakes
the original sentence was..

its like that common mistake in every roman epic films, where thumbs down = death/execution and thumbs up = live.

In other words this misconception is just as inadequate as to say that exploitation is a genre. But I guess we could debate endlessly on this subject matter since we both have different convictions.

pete
Then you gave me a 50/50 for my universally mistaken logic of mistaking the jews as a race..

onoff
False...You are either deliberately or unconsciously reformulating my previous comments again...

pete
then you cite the latenight conversations you had with Noe

onoff
So?

pete
Then you told me you did that so that you "could follow" [my] logic..

onoff
Nop....I didn't...to follow your logic, I had to quote/  imagine that exploitation is a genre...To force myself to believe that it is a genre.

pete
then you fell in love with the actors because they were making shit up as they went along.

onoff
No, I knew these actors long before irréversible was released. So I didn't fall in love because they were "making shit up "

pete
I knew there was no screenplay involved in that conversation that went on forever with a few attemps to hindshadow what was about to happen. I knew all of that without ever having a conversation with Noe. How did I know that?

I could tell.

onoff
So? anyone could....At one point during the film there's a moment when vincent cassel mistakenly says that his name is Vincent instead of Marcus (during the techno-party) its a mistake like many others..There's even moments when the actors never finished their phrases. And that's the beauty of Noé's film in the sense that each of these takes can't be performed with the same imprevisibility. There's no repetitions, no catch phrases that reminds you that you're watching a film. For me the ensemble worked.

pete
...and the low budget-independent-b-films-from-30's-on are simply titled "Films that pretend to Adress Social/Moral/Artistic Issues in Order to Show Stuff Not Okay by the Hollywood Code...

onoff
that's an approx-definition of the so called "exploitation" film.That is.. according to the majority. And since the majority rules, there's nothing more I can say because it would be like talking to a wall.

pete
In fact it takes away from arguing for its greatness because then you can't argue that the film's validity as a criticism of the said-non-existent genre..

onoff
btw I personally don't think irréversible's validity can be resumed as  a criticism. (of "exploitation") or let's say Z-grade films (which is also not a very appropriated definition).

To me, irréversible is more of an "experiment".
Irréversible is also the total opposite of Nolan's Memento because there's no real intrigue in Noé's film..No mistery. The reversed structure of Irréversible works more on an emotional level. At the end/beginning of the film, the sense of loss is more tragic and prevalent. If the film's plot wouldn't h been reversed. The emotional impact would've been affade.

pete
Which is the main reason a lot of the critics recommended the film in the first place.

onoff
I follow my own instincs, I never (or rarely) pay attention to critics because they are too judgemental.

pete
and finally, how stupid do you take people that you think you've brough up an even remotely fresh point in telling people that films are produced for profits?

onoff
Actually, Pete..When I made that remark, I wasn't trying to brough up an even remotely fresh point...But to pinpoint the moronic and thin aspect of your criticism.

pete
My advice: go read up on some film history, take some SAT practice tests in analogies..

So that I could be as erudite as you? ...riiiight..Hey guess what? (not to brag about my personal life but..) Within the next month I'll be in charge of a $ 700 000 short film, after that (maybe in a year) I'll also co-direct a $ 4 100 000 indie film. I'm just commencing my career as a director and and also as an executive producer. And I've never wasted my time in film school. and i'm not even 22 yet. How's that for an ignoramus who needs to read up some film history? Thanks for the advice tho.

ps: I've seen the very boring "Betrayal"  (only because Irons was in it)...Even the reversed animated short film T.R.A.N.S.I.T. (directed by Piet Koon) is 10 times more captivating...If you wanna see a brilliant reversed film, forget "betrayal" and watch Peppermint candy (by Chang dong Lee)

bye!

[priceless_cinema]

Hey priceless, what's your avatar of???

Scene in Irreversible with Monica and Vincent.

[Cecil]

exploitation may not be an "official" genre, but its a genre. just because films ARE exploited, it doesnt necessarily mean they contain gratuitous sex, violence or whatever.

and, no offense to you personally, but, these days, just because youre directing a film, it doesnt mean you know shit about cinema.

[pete]

yeah onoff, too bad you never wasted your time at the film school.  'cause I'm not even 14 yet, and I'm about to co-direct a $25 million indie short feature.  and I'm not only the co-director, I'm also the executive producer AND the head of the Clearwater, MD. Police Department.  On top of that, guess what kind of film am I directing?

oh that's right, an exploitation film!

oh yeah, and I lost my virginity and my ink to the daughter of the CEO of Virgin Inc. last summer.

[Gold Trumpet]

I did a lot of catching up this week by traveling to a big city and blind buying lots of indie dvds to catch up on them because my own city fucking sucks with films...This is one of the ones I bought and I expected nothing but thought this film was brilliant, one of the best of last year.

I never got the feeling of exploitation in this film at all....the manic camera work at the beginning (or end) never allowed me to focus on one single image long enough to feel its shocking imagery take over, except for the last murder. During Belluci's rape, the camera was in stand still, but there never was the huge amount of nudity I expected. No tits, and only a little showing of the ass. A lot was implied so I found it to be terrifying.

But, I do think the backwards nature of this film has a purpose. A major purpose. See, at the beginning, with the arrest of the two men, we think they are like any other criminals that could have raped Belluci. As time goes back in the story, we understand how normal their lives were but we also understand the idea of male aggression in general when Belluci's boyfriend was almost as aggressive with her at the party as her rapist and murderer. Its all an understanding that our culture is continually getting more pornographic and the dividing line between what a murderer and any average guy will think is diminishing. At the end (beginning), the boyfriend wants to fuck Belluci in the ass, the rapist does it at the beginning (end). Having the film go backwards make us put into the judgement more the people before all the craziness at the typical end of the film. We are shocked by the beginning, but reflecting at the end. I think in a straight forward film, we would just the leave the theatre shocked by the ending and lose some of that reflection.

The manic camera work at the beginning is excellent. A successful transformation of a nightmare onto screen. The progress of the film to more controlled and limited movements is understandable to the filmmaker really being in control with this film.

[Henry Hill]

Is there any other way to see Monica Belucci naked WITHOUT seeing this film? If not then I may have to go against my better judgement and see it.

[modage]

Is there any other way to see Monica Belucci naked WITHOUT seeing this film? If not then I may have to go against my better judgement and see it.

yes,
http://imdb.com/title/tt0237534/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0213847/

[MacGuffin]

Is there any other way to see Monica Belucci naked WITHOUT seeing this film? If not then I may have to go against my better judgement and see it.

or go here.

WARNING! FEATURES EXPLICIT BANNERS

[SoNowThen]

yeah onoff, too bad you never wasted your time at the film school.  'cause I'm not even 14 yet, and I'm about to co-direct a $25 million indie short feature.  and I'm not only the co-director, I'm also the executive producer AND the head of the Clearwater, MD. Police Department.  On top of that, guess what kind of film am I directing?

oh that's right, an exploitation film!

oh yeah, and I lost my virginity and my ink to the daughter of the CEO of Virgin Inc. last summer.

[pete]

ABOUT MALENA!
first of all, Belluci gets raped in there too, but you know, in a traditional, erotic kinda way.  Secondly, if you wanna watch this film, GET THE ITALIAN version.  The American version has cut out a lot of very very hot scenes, SO FREAKING HOT!
Oh yeah, Belluci was totally topless and made out with two other chicks, along with Keanu Reeves, and Bram Stoker's Dracula.

[NEON MERCURY]

If not then I may have to go against with  my better judgement and see it.

....and GT that was a good review..........i agree w/ you 100%.........