Does The Matrix Make Sense?

Mesh · May 12, 2003, 04:57:08 PM

Quote from: MacGuffin
Quote from: MeshI understand how the phones are used as plot devices. What I'm asking, though, is "Does it makes sense that Morpheus's rebels would need to get to such portals, seeing that they're all trained to some extent in defying the rules of the Matrix?"

Yes. Those 'defying the rules' are used inside the Matrix. The portals are used to send the team in and out of the Matrix, using the spikes in the back of their heads. "The mind makes it real" and they need to jack into the mind to enter the Matrix and exit back to reality.

OK, but see the film says that the Matrix is a construct that exists only in minds. It is not a place and therefore the concept of locations (like, say, telephone booths) isn't consistent. The phones don't exist; how could they function as technological portals? If those chairs on the Nebuchadnezzar can send people into the Matrix at any given place, why can't they pull them back out from any given place?

(Remember, I've seen this film only twice; I could be missing something.)

Mesh · May 12, 2003, 04:59:10 PM

Quote from: tremoloslothBut then you wouldn't have asked in the first place. The Matrix makes sense to me.

But I'm not sure it does. Apparently you disagree. Fine. Thanks for your two cents.

Sleuth · May 12, 2003, 05:02:49 PM

May I please add more, or have you severed my line of opinion

Sleuth · May 12, 2003, 05:08:33 PM

Well here I go anyway (and is this really opinion anyway?
)

Quote from: MeshIf those chairs on the Nebuchadnezzar can send people into the Matrix at any given place, why can't they pull them back out from any given place?

(Remember, I've seen this film only twice; I could be missing something.)

They don't send them to any given place. Remember when they were going to see the Oracle(I think it was when they were going to see the oracle, it's when all of them went along) they appeared around a phone.

MacGuffin · May 12, 2003, 05:08:54 PM

Quote from: MeshOK, but see the film says that the Matrix is a construct that exists only in minds. It is not a place and therefore the concept of locations (like, say, telephone booths) isn't consistent. The phones don't exist; how could they function as technological portals? If those chairs on the Nebuchadnezzar can send people into the Matrix at any given place, why can't they pull them back out from any given place?

It exists in the minds of those enslaved as batteries. So everything is real to them. Think of it this way, the phone lines are like the phone lines used with your modem to let you get online, and you have to find the right service number to be able get online.

Mesh · May 12, 2003, 05:38:18 PM

Quote from: MacGuffin
It exists in the minds of those enslaved as batteries. So everything is real to them. Think of it this way, the phone lines are like the phone lines used with your modem to let you get online, and you have to find the right service number to be able get online.

Dude, I don't think you're getting my point.

1. I understand what the plot tells us the phone lines are for.

2. Morpheus's rebels are no longer enslaved as batteries. The Matrix no longer "exists" for them; they recognize it as a construct and use that recognition as a weapon against those in control of the Matrix (they are, in effect, enlightened and exhibit supernatural ability because of it).

3. The phone lines don't exist (see my point #2). Morpheus's rebels should know that they don't exist, yet the plot tells us that they use those non-existent phones as a way to transport in and out of the Matrix. Does that make sense?

I'll think about this more tonight and get back to you guys later. Gotta go to my "No-Internet" job now....

Meanwhile, argue amongst yourselves and, hey, somebody take up my "The Matrix may not make much sense" position...

RegularKarate · May 12, 2003, 06:54:37 PM

See the phone booths aren't there but the portals are. The phone booths are just numbers represented visually by the phones. They're just interface, like icons on your desktop.

While Morpheus and his gang understand that they're not really phones, Neo is really the only ONE that can see everything for what it actually is, which gives him more control. Look at what happens in that last battle, he sees the walls and ceiling as ones and zeros, that's what it is... he sees beyond the interface, he can see the code and can therefore defy it better.

So, we can't see beyond one yet... Ghostboy has, but most of us haven't... maybe Neo can now move back and forth without the phones because of his new abilities.

Banky · May 12, 2003, 07:42:39 PM

I have a friend, we'll call him ASSFACE, who always claims that THE MATRIX is really good but full of plot holes. When i ask him what plotholes he only can come up with this. ASSFACE-"If neo knows that its all just ones and zereos then he is unstoppable. What is the point of another movie? He knows the truth and cant be stopped so he is invincable." I always come back with "Yeah he knows its all just code. But so does Morpheus and Trinity. Neo is just better at breaking the rules of the code than anyone else. Yeah i agree that he cannot be killed in the matrix but dont you think he could be contained?" I think that is a valid answer to his question. Anyone else agree or care to elaborate so we can shut down people like ASSFACE who throw slander at a movie just because it is to complex for them to understand?

bonanzataz · May 12, 2003, 08:34:25 PM

http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=1598

picolas · May 12, 2003, 10:42:47 PM

just 'acause Neo can break the rules doesn't mean he can just forget most of all of mankind, enslaved in pods they can't even see...how's he going to save everyone? and Neo ain't immortal in the real world. remember the sentinels...

Sal · May 13, 2003, 12:08:42 AM

The "what is the point?" is actually a valid question for the matrix, especially "Reloaded," or so I read. All the kung fu stuff, all the glitz...while entertaining, ultimately does not bear much importance if Neo can see the code and do...pretty much whatever the hell he wants in the matrix. So one would start to question why he remains so constrained in it.

Jeremy Blackman · May 13, 2003, 01:09:08 AM

I don't know, the whole thing is kind of stolen from Star Trek...

MacGuffin · May 13, 2003, 03:05:17 AM

Sure Neo can see the code, but look at the trailer for "Reloaded". The Agents say "He is still only human." And the computers quest was not to find or get Neo, it is to find Zion and kill all the freed humans. They were only persuring Neo to get to Morpheus because Morpheus has the codes to the city. That is until Cypher made a deal with Agent Smith.

Pwaybloe · May 13, 2003, 08:36:38 AM

*nerd.......overload........bzzzzzzkt........*

chainsmoking insomniac · May 13, 2003, 08:51:17 AM

Quote from: RegularKarateSee the phone booths aren't there but the portals are. The phone booths are just numbers represented visually by the phones. They're just interface, like icons on your desktop.

While Morpheus and his gang understand that they're not really phones, Neo is really the only ONE that can see everything for what it actually is, which gives him more control. Look at what happens in that last battle, he sees the walls and ceiling as ones and zeros, that's what it is... he sees beyond the interface, he can see the code and can therefore defy it better.

So, we can't see beyond one yet... Ghostboy has, but most of us haven't... maybe Neo can now move back and forth without the phones because of his new abilities.

Mesh, he nailed it.