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Oscars....Yes or No?

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Fuzzy Dunlop

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Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 09:28:33 PM

wilberfan

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Reply #31 on: August 28, 2018, 12:57:33 PM
Bret Easton Ellis on The Oscars and probably my favorite documentary so far this year (Scotty and the Secret History of Hollywood).   And then some other stuff.


From his podcast.


I found it fascinating--but maybe that's just because I mostly agree with him.
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eward

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Reply #32 on: August 28, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
I love his podcast, been hooked on it since it started. I find myself agreeing with him more often than not, and still appreciate his point of view and candor when our, hm, general values, shall we say, don't exactly align.

Sleepless

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Reply #33 on: August 29, 2018, 08:50:41 AM
What does he say that you (mostly) agree with?
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.

wilberfan

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Reply #34 on: August 29, 2018, 03:37:50 PM
One thing he said that really struck me was that movies used to be the center of the culture.  That really rang true for me, having come of cinematic age in the 70s.  I hadn't really considered that movies really aren't that anymore.   He also shared my contempt of the latest "Best Popular Picture" addition to the awards, and how the voting rule changes following the 'snubbing' of "Dark Knight" have resulted in very "safe", but often mediocre choices for Best Picture winners.   
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Sleepless

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Reply #35 on: August 29, 2018, 03:59:03 PM
Fair points all. Last week's Indiewire podcast had a few nice lines about it all. Basically that the Popular Film Oscar isn't the right way forward (and it may not come to pass - at least not yet) but that something does need to be done to make the Oscars more relevant to a bigger audience again. The Academy is supposed to highlight the best filmmaking... and that's the films coming from speciality labels and indies, not the studios, which is kinda sorta the problem. Also, we all want the Academy to survive, so hope they figure this all out.

I've also heard some repeated arguments (from Indiewire and elsewhere) that the current slump began when they shifted from 5 BP nominees to up to 10, and the shift to preferential voting. Incidentally, both symptoms of Dark Knight missing out on a BP nomination.
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.

wilberfan

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Reply #36 on: August 29, 2018, 04:14:28 PM
Quote from: Sleepless on August 29, 2018, 03:59:03 PM
I've also heard some repeated arguments (from Indiewire and elsewhere) that the current slump began when they shifted from 5 BP nominees to up to 10, and the shift to preferential voting. Incidentally, both symptoms of Dark Knight missing out on a BP nomination.


This was the example Ellis cited, exactly.  He also offered some interesting history on the origin of the Oscars, specifically how Louis B. Mayer started them as a P.R. game to counteract the outrage by the bluenoses and others that Hollywood was a cesspool of immorality.  He wanted to start an organization that would let the world believe that Hollywood was a noble and virtuous business that was high-minded and socially conscious. 

And I need to keep reminding myself that all of the modifications by the Academy are really just about retaining or increasing viewership of the Oscar ceremony (and it's attendant ad revenue).   Given cinemas displacement at the center of the cultural solar system, I think they've got a real battle on their hands.   Whatever changes they feel compelled to make for more eyeballs I can't help think will only dilute the "credibility" of the awards in the process.
"Trying to fit in since 2017."

eward

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Reply #37 on: August 29, 2018, 04:37:26 PM
I only really start disagreeing with him on political points. He's generally liberal (he claims) but increasingly derisive of what he deems "left wing hysteria" and "Trump Derangement Syndrome" etc. I mean I get his basic thesis, but also find it over the top, and very curious considering he rarely if ever speaks similarly about the Right.

His thoughts on film and the broader cultural spectrum make generally good bedfellows with my own. Except he liked A Quiet Place and hated Eighth Grade, so....no one is perfect.

Sleepless

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Reply #38 on: August 30, 2018, 09:03:21 AM
Quote from: wilberfan on August 29, 2018, 04:14:28 PM
Whatever changes they feel compelled to make for more eyeballs I can't help think will only dilute the "credibility" of the awards in the process.

It's a difficult and unenvious balancing act to be sure. But the Oscars ceremony is how they make their money. So it's not a problem they can shy away form confronting.

A more welcome question, though no less knotty, is how does cinema become closer to the "center of culture" that it once was? There seem to be so many odds against it - the absolute glut of content that is produced, the studio's tunnel strategy of four-quadrant established IP, even preconceived notions of Hollywood elites across all political/social segments...
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.

wilberfan

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Reply #39 on: August 30, 2018, 04:03:58 PM
Maybe this falls under your "four-quadrant IP" comment (one I'm not familiar with, to be honest), but I also think Hollywood's penchant for making films that will appeal to literally as many people as possible (ie, world-wide distribution) is also diluting the aesthetics of artful filmmaking.   And where's the cultural center when you're dealing with multitudes of cultures?
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ono

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Reply #40 on: August 30, 2018, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: wilberfan on August 29, 2018, 03:37:50 PM
One thing he said that really struck me was that movies used to be the center of the culture.
What would you say is?  I'm trying to pinpoint that, but I can't because let's face it, after 35, we're kind of out of touch.

wilberfan

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Reply #41 on: August 30, 2018, 08:57:39 PM
That's an excellent question.  And I'm pretty sure I'm not the guy to answer that one.   I'm the guy that's baffled by an article about some YouTube Influencer that I've never come CLOSE to hearing of.   (And the guy that often fast-forwards thru the musical guest on SNL every week.) 


But here's a thought: I wonder if the center of the culture these days might be the Politics of Outrage, or identity, etc.  Or maybe even the Culture War itself is the center of the culture?   It certainly garners a whole lot of brain cycles every day from from every part of the human intelligence spectrum.
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Sleepless

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Reply #42 on: August 31, 2018, 09:45:45 AM
TV is closer to center of culture than film these days, I feel. But there's still such a glut of TV being produced right now, even that doesn't seem like a decent answer. I think you've come close to hitting the nail on the head by suggesting the ADD daily cycle of outrage/backlash as one of the best possibilities. But that's not really culture, is it? Not in the traditional sense of culture as art in any form. Maybe we have a vacuous centre of culture right now.
He held on. The dolphin and all the rest of its pod turned and swam out to sea, and still he held on. This is it, he thought. Then he remembered that they were air-breathers too. It was going to be all right.

jenkins

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Reply #43 on: August 31, 2018, 07:04:44 PM
it's the internet of course it is. it affects culture in the way the center does: how we think, what we do, what we talk about, what we wear, etc. i can easily find people who don't watch tv, but good luck finding those who avoid the internet ("the new rebellion")

earlier i had a lengthier thing about this, it was a pretty good post tbh, i shittalked BEE as well, but i wrote it following ono's post and i deleted it because i didn't want ono to feel uncomfortable

BEE is ridiculous

ono

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Reply #44 on: August 31, 2018, 10:44:18 PM
Lol wut.

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