Inherent Vice - SPOILERS!

Axolotl · January 23, 2015, 01:11:34 PM

I'll end all my posts with 'jk' from now on to be absolutely clear.

Something Spanish · January 23, 2015, 01:15:10 PM

that pic reminds me of one of my favorite moments in Vice, which is Coy's parting barely audible words to Doc at the end of that lengthy convo, something like "find shasta fey. shasta fey", leaving our hero inexplicably floored and quivering. gives me chills every time.

and no need to apologize raptor, your response was pretty funny.

and JB, I think IV has the most soul in the PTA oeuvre.

porgy · January 23, 2015, 01:41:21 PM

Quote from: Axolotl on January 23, 2015, 12:30:31 PM
We've already talked about this at length in the shoutbox and have officially agreed that the cameo(if there even is one) is the guy in the background looking in on Coy and Doc's conversation at the Boards house. Anyway it doesn't even matter because no one will ever know which is why it's cool so let's move on.

Edit:had it saved

I dont believe that's Pynchon. I'm pretty sure it's Paul Dano. Seriously. I went to the premiere at NYFF and found myself standing behind him in line for the bathroom - When I saw it the first time I thought it was him too. Make of that what you will.

modage · January 23, 2015, 03:18:11 PM

It's not Pynchon or Dano. See this for a clearer look at that dude (from one of the TV spots).

JB, check back after viewing 2.

modage · January 23, 2015, 04:08:18 PM

That scene was originally filmed with Mars Crain and recast with Michael K. Williams so that must've been when they decided on the ugly white wall.

Jim Steele · January 23, 2015, 08:12:24 PM

Quote from: porgy on January 23, 2015, 01:41:21 PM
Quote from: Axolotl on January 23, 2015, 12:30:31 PM
We've already talked about this at length in the shoutbox and have officially agreed that the cameo(if there even is one) is the guy in the background looking in on Coy and Doc's conversation at the Boards house. Anyway it doesn't even matter because no one will ever know which is why it's cool so let's move on.

Edit:had it saved

I dont believe that's Pynchon. I'm pretty sure it's Paul Dano. Seriously. I went to the premiere at NYFF and found myself standing behind him in line for the bathroom - When I saw it the first time I thought it was him too. Make of that what you will.

On my third viewing I thought Pynchon was the one of the patients at the "Straight is Hep" rehabilitation place. When Doc first walks in someone's serving soup to some old guy who gets an low (but audible) line in the background of Docs conversation.

the voice reminded me of Pynchon's voice from

its probably not, i never really looked into it. still fun to speculate.

porgy · January 23, 2015, 10:43:12 PM

I saw this today for the third time and had a dumb fan theory moment. I dunno if this was mentioned here, so maybe I'm parroting something I forgot I read - and maybe it was clear in the book and I'm a fool- but is Shasta dead once she returns? I hate alternate reality Fight Club theories but there's a lot of implications that suggest it...
Stuff like - 'Doc had seen this before, people who couldn't admit someone was dead.'
There's a scene like halfway through the movie where she's narrating her postcard - ominous piano tinkling - "Nothing was supposed to happen this way, Doc. I'm so sorry."
Wolfmann has a very maudlin reaction to hearing her name.
It's never stated what went on on the boat but it can be implied.
After the sex scene Shasta mentions how she couldn't be insured per the title - kind of a dark shadowy way of saying that she knows too much, is too much of an innocent/civilian and has to be killed.
In the car at the very end she references to how it's like "being underwater", the last place her being seen was the boat.

Viewed in this light her actions have a weird tinge to them. (Remember, "Not Hallucinating?") Her showing up and being doting, and simultaneously being a sex object while playing into Doc's jealousy in reference to his deep dark thoughts about her sexuality and Wolfmann. Then on the beach it's like Doc can't believe this dream come true, she's come back, seemingly wants to be all his, and is his by virtue of the weird change in identity. She's back and she's a hippie again.

Even if this isn't the case, which I don't really know cause I hate this way of watching/reading movies, it's still a great look at that specific kind of relationship- when you break up with someone or are broken up with, go back to/with them and the lingering feeling of "this is too good to be true" is just too present.

Axolotl · January 23, 2015, 11:41:37 PM

It's not a dumb theory. She might be a Thanatoid. Which is like death, only different. Like gone but not gone. Because they have some karmic balance to help correct before they move on. Shasta was one of the reasons Coy got involved with the Golden Fang.

Drenk · January 24, 2015, 08:49:10 AM

I thought the same thing, Porgy. This is a ghost story. When Shasta comes back for the couch scene, she could be a dark specter. A shadow. Also, she is a fantasy, what Doc thinks she was to Mickey. And we can also think he's hallucinating because, well, it strangely looks like a variation of the first scene. Of course, I'm with you, I hate the "THAT CHARACTER DOESN'T EXIST" theories, and in the book the fogginess of Shasta's presence is different. But Doc is haunted by Shasta. Shasta and the hippie's dream are fading; I love the last shot of the movie. In the book, Shasta isn't with Doc. But I'm not sure she's with him at the end of the movie either.

That's why Coy is important. Coy is, for Doc, a way to have a victory against death/corruption/what's going away. Coy is resurrected.

About what it says about America, it is in the movie. Strolling talks about "vertical integration", does she? Or maybe it isn't the exact term. Vertical something, anyway. America itself wins money with drugs with the help of the federals then wins money again fixing their teeth before transforming them into anti-communists with the help of nazis. Or something like that with different connections. Doc says: « Much, much more, what you would call, vast. », it isn't clear to give you an idea of the vastness.

With the boat, you have the idea of a sudden transformation by evil, hidden forces. What happened? How did it go away? (Sashta in the first scene/couch scene, the communist actor/anti-communist actor, Wolfmann totally broken after his "dream")

The nostalgia of America is harsh; at the end, Sortilège says there is no way to go back, basically, that we have to live in this world. And this nostalgia works, to me, because of the ex-old lady. Something I connect to. This isn't only about 60/70 the same way TWBB isn't only about capitalism. It's the feeling of something that goes away. An era or a lost love.

Look at Bigfoot. He hates hippies but he's a victim of America. Adrian Prussia is loved by the feds, and he killed his partner. Doc lost Shasta. And Don and Bigfoot become, in a way, a couple of broken couples -- if what I say makes some sense. Not a real couple (most of the time they're on the phone), but something strange. I didn't laugh when Bigfoot ate the weed, I felt like Doc. Where does Bigfoot belong? No-fucking where.

modage · January 24, 2015, 09:07:21 AM

I like this theory. It's wild, and maybe not intentional or some key to understanding the film or anything but certainly seems like a valid reading.

There's also the phone call where Bigfoot is fucking with Doc and saying, "She's gone, man" and Doc believes that she's dead.

Jeremy Blackman · January 24, 2015, 10:32:38 AM

That's what I got from it too. Nothing with Shasta at the end seemed right, especially her reason for being gone (visiting family?). The way she's slinking around, the beach shots, and the car moment all feel like Doc fantasies.

It might be too far to say she wasn't there at the beginning.

Do people believe Joanna Newsom was real?

Axolotl · January 24, 2015, 11:04:36 AM

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 24, 2015, 10:32:38 AM
especially her reason for being gone (visiting family?)

That's what she says initially. She later admits she was on the golden fang(she and puck have the same shell necklace or whatever) doc also checks her neck for bite marks(which puck later gives him).

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on January 24, 2015, 10:32:38 AM
Do people believe Joanna Newsom was real?

She's in his head but she's real. She's never actually in the car with him

putneyswipe · January 24, 2015, 06:19:31 PM

Just noticed this. Lanky, gray-haired elder gentleman on the bottom right. Given pynchon's history with orthodontics, this would be a clever coincidence, no?

JG · January 24, 2015, 06:27:41 PM

i think that's a good guess!

Axolotl · January 25, 2015, 12:51:19 AM

She's not a ghost. I don't think anyone believes that she's a literal booooo ku klux klan hood type ghost. It's not a puzzle movie. Calling her a ghost is just one of the ways to express a specific type of cinematic irreality that's all over this movie which I think is a natural progression from the Master(it's like calling that theater dream phone call telepathy). It's one of those things that are ok to do in literature but when you do in movies people take issue with because they're so used to movies being externally explainable and logical.