Game of Thrones (spoilers)

[Sleepless]

I've fund these first two episodes to be surprisingly hollow, but maybe that's just in the context of all the morning-after reactions online which ALWAYS contain the word "shocking" in the headline. At least the whole "is Jon really dead?" nonsense has been put to bed now. I did get a goofy grin when I realized that was Hodor in the opening scene. Would have liked more from the Tyrion/dragons scene - it felt like it has no resolution. Based on his speech immediately prior, I was expecting him to either set the dragons free or at least start to bond with them. I felt that the "if I ever have an idea like that again..." line undercut the whole thing and made it seem like it really didn't matter.

Also - even though Dany is now going to be imprisoned (??) didn't the respect otherwise shown to her contradict what we previously learned about the Dothraki and how they treat the widow of the former leaders?

[Jeremy Blackman]

Would have liked more from the Tyrion/dragons scene - it felt like it has no resolution. Based on his speech immediately prior, I was expecting him to either set the dragons free or at least start to bond with them. I felt that the "if I ever have an idea like that again..." line undercut the whole thing and made it seem like it really didn't matter.

He was only saying that as a quip because it was a scary experience. That was absolutely an important scene. It heavily hinted that he's half Targaryen. And now he's basically the uncle of dragons.

In fact, they put three major puzzles pieces together, all in this one episode, pushing us further toward (SPECULATION SPOILERS) the much-anticipated Targaryen trio — Daenerys, Jon, and Tyrion — and the eventual climax involving all three of them:

1. Jon coming back
2. Tyrion making dragon friends & being all but outed as a Targaryen
2. Introducing Lyanna Stark, which set off all kinds of alarms for book readers, because she is arguably the key to the whole thing

And anyway, I believe Tyrion has set the dragons free. Isn't there a larger exit somewhere in the back? Surely they won't be going out through that little door.

Also - even though Dany is now going to be imprisoned (??) didn't the respect otherwise shown to her contradict what we previously learned about the Dothraki and how they treat the widow of the former leaders?

I think they'll end up joining her army.

[Sleepless]

He was only saying that as a quip because it was a scary experience. That was absolutely an important scene. It heavily hinted that he's half Targaryen. And now he's basically the uncle of dragons.

I get that, I've been paying attention to the speculation here from people who know more than me. On reflection, it probably would have been too heavy handed if they'd made a bigger deal of the scene or not had the quip to undercut it all. The geography of the dungeon is bugging me now though - it's so dark in there, must be a heck of a walk to the larger dragon-size door.

So dragons rescue Dany, torch the Dothraki, all the merry widows join Dany's army, Jorah pissed that he couldn't be Dany's savior?

Had to Google Lyanna.

[Jeremy Blackman]

You're right, that dungeon is problematic. I'm struggling to fill in the blanks for them. I guess it's possible Tyrion wants to feed them something before they're fully released.

The consensus seems to be that the Dothraki will join Dany's army... but I have no idea how or why. Should be interesting.

(More speculation spoilers on the same subject)

As much as I love Hodor, he kinda served as a red herring in that flashback. Lyanna is the Helen of Troy of this whole story, and her introduction is explosively important. Casting reveals that we'll be seeing the older version of her, too. Her abduction led to Robert's Rebellion, and her progeny (which resulted from that abduction) may just save the world. It's like a beautiful redemptive loop.

[Jeremy Blackman]

I know GoT is working when I'm genuinely angry that the episode has ended. Why not another hour? I have a legit free trial of HBO Now; am I not entitled to more?

Jon's story worked the best for me in this episode. I don't know how that could have been done better — every step felt pitch-perfect. I especially loved Jon's awakening. The execution scene was fantastic, too. Is it bad that I was excited to see Ollie die?

Really not sure who to root for in King's Landing. My head tells me that Olenna Tyrell is the most legit person there, but my heart wants Cersei to slay all her enemies and bathe in their blood. Surely they must join forces to defeat the church.

I hope some of these stories come to fruition earlier than others. Please don't put all the payoffs in one episode. As much as I enjoy it, I don't know how much setup and anticipation I can handle.

Arya's scenes are barely holding my interest. Perhaps it doesn't enthrall me that her progress is mostly achieved by being beaten with a stick for a long time. I'm not sure it's working as intended... just seems a little substanceless. Maybe it's one of those things that will be more interesting in retrospect, once we see where it's leading.

Speculation spoilers:

Yet more movement toward R+L=J. So close that they're almost showing their hand. I hope the reveal will be subtle enough. It could be an impossible task to please everyone, i.e. those who may not remember Ned dropping a hint in Season 1, and those who are impatiently expecting a very specific thing.

[Drenk]

I know GoT is working when I'm genuinely angry that the episode has ended. Why not another hour? I have a legit free trial of HBO Now; am I not entitled to more?

I don't think they know what they're doing, that's why almost nothing happens in this episode. I mean, there is a whole scene with Tyrion who doesn't know what to say...

[Jeremy Blackman]

almost nothing happens in this episode.

Something important happened in every scene, including the one you reference.

"Nothing happened..." I even heard this said about last week's episode, in which an absurd number of things happened. In which two of the most powerful men in this universe were assassinated. In which Lyanna Stark was introduced and Jon Snow came back from the dead.

What more do people want? Are GoT fans really so fickle that they freak out when there's one quiet scene? I sincerely don't understand this phenomenon.

[Drenk]

almost nothing happens in this episode.

Something important happened in every scene, including the one you reference.

"Nothing happened..." I even heard this said about last week's episode, in which an absurd number of things happened. In which two of the most powerful men in this universe were assassinated. In which Lyanna Stark was introduced and Jon Snow came back from the dead.

What more do people want? Are GoT fans really so fickle that they freak out when there's one quiet scene? I sincerely don't understand this phenomenon.

Yes, my sentence was easy, I didn't explain myself correctly. I'd take a whole episode with Bran instead of them killing characters from the books they don't want to deal with (it was even supposed to be comic, I think...)

I actually prefer the quiet scenes. The ones with Cersei this season were all great. Last week (except the silly murders) was a good episode. But I do think that they're stuck. Arya and Sansa have awful storylines. Arya has that overlong storyline in the books, too, but she's less destined to become a killing machine, I think. But they could have done way better with Sansa. At this point, she's not the one who needs to be comforted by Theon. I don't mind when you change the material. It's already different story! But when you change the storyline and don't care anymore about your character...


About Jon: all the fuss about his death will be forgotten and I'm glad that it made him leave Castle Black. I just hope that a convergence will begin, and if they needed that episode to make that happen, all right. The Starks back at Winterfell to save Rickon and take what's theirs?

And: Tommen is great. He should stay king.

[Fernando]

Jon's story worked the best for me in this episode. I don't know how that could have been done better — every step felt pitch-perfect. I especially loved Jon's awakening. The execution scene was fantastic, too. Is it bad that I was excited to see Ollie die?

Yes it worked, I like that they are consistent with the fact that there's nothing on the other side, which is what Beric Dondarrion said too to Melisandre.
I would have loved to see more of her with Jon, now he's gone but I hope they bring them together again.
I notice he left without Ghost, but I guess he will follow him.

Really not sure who to root for in King's Landing. My head tells me that Olenna Tyrell is the most legit person there, but my heart wants Cersei to slay all her enemies and bathe in their blood. Surely they must join forces to defeat the church.

Same thing happens to me, I want to see Cersei get her revenge and probably she will get at least some of it, but in the end it will back fire like many decisions she's made, it surprised me that the scene at the small council didn't end in a bloodshed.

Arya's scenes are barely holding my interest. Perhaps it doesn't enthrall me that her progress is mostly achieved by being beaten with a stick for a long time. I'm not sure it's working as intended... just seems a little substanceless. Maybe it's one of those things that will be more interesting in retrospect, once we see where it's leading.

I actually liked Arya's story this week, and more importantly, she mentions Walder Frey for the first time in her list, which now only has three names.

Speculation spoilers:

Yet more movement toward R+L=J. So close that they're almost showing their hand. I hope the reveal will be subtle enough. It could be an impossible task to please everyone, i.e. those who may not remember Ned dropping a hint in Season 1, and those who are impatiently expecting a very specific thing.

JB, what hint are you talking about? I only remember Ned mentioning to Jon that he will tell him about her next time they see each other, right after Jon goes to Castle Black and Ned is heading to Kingslanding.

I don't get the speculation that Tyrion is a Targaryen, there hasn't been any hints (as far as I remember) in the show or the books, last week scene with the dragons was even explained by Tyrion, dragons are even more intelligent than men he said, at least to me that doesn't mean Tyrion has Targaryen blood.


Rickon is back! and yet another direwolf is gone

[Jeremy Blackman]

But I do think that they're stuck.

I can understand that. Arya, Brann, and Daenerys are all very much stuck. Others are also a bit stuck, but more by choice. Theon and Sansa are on the move, and Jon will be too, so that's kind of enough for me right now. I'm making an effort to be patient, because you can really feel an epic convergence on the horizon.

I think it's going to work, as long as they don't try to blow our minds by cramming too much of it into one episode.

But they could have done way better with Sansa.

I've probably expended thousands of words here complaining about the show's Sansa choices. But this season's premiere was redemptive for me. I think she finally has promise.

JB, what hint are you talking about? I only remember Ned mentioning to Jon that he will tell him about her next time they see each other, right after Jon goes to Castle Black and Ned is heading to Kingslanding.

That's basically what I'm referencing. In retrospect, it's more how it was said. It was the show dropping a heavy hint very early that Jon's parentage was a completely open question. Also, it seemed very incongruous at the time that Ned would have been unfaithful to his wife (not honorable) and then brought back the baby. I think there was enough to make us suspect that wasn't the truth.

I don't get the speculation that Tyrion is a Targaryen, there hasn't been any hints (as far as I remember) in the show or the books, last week scene with the dragons was even explained by Tyrion, dragons are even more intelligent than men he said, at least to me that doesn't mean Tyrion has Targaryen blood.

I'm trying to remember the source for that, but I think it's 90% likely that he is a Targaryen. The way Tywin was so resentful of him seemed to go beyond his appearance or the fact that his mother died in childbirth. That would make a lot more sense if Tywin knew he wasn't the father.

Found some good evidence here:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-likelihood-that-Tyrion-Lannister-is-secretly-a-Targaryen

Example from that link. Tywin says this to Tyrion: "You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature, full of envy, lust and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine."

We already have one vehicle for discovering these secrets, but we will soon have another — Sam — when he starts studying to be a maester.

[Jeremy Blackman]

LOL, I just read another AV Club comment: "And yet another episode in which nothing happened!" Which did in fact make me laugh out loud. Do people understand what "happened" means? This is seriously getting out of control.

I've been sampling some GoT podcasts, and there is one ("A Cast of Kings") which is at least 50% complaining about the show. This season is such an improvement over last; will people settle for nothing but absolute perfection? It's made by humans. I'm reminded of something Matt Zoller Seitz often says. Audacity should be rewarded and appreciated. I have a genuine sadness for viewers who don't even realize how much they're taking this show for granted.

Anyway...

I think this might be the best episode of this season so far, although the premiere was more emotionally affecting. I guess I'm less interested in judging GoT episode-by-episode, though. Sure, they do like to wrap an episode in a theme sometimes, but outside of that it's like "which episode had the greatest number of scenes with my favorite characters or places."

Daenerys's big scene had me more excited than a schoolgirl. I'm not even sure what noises I made. Benioff compared it to her first "fire rebirth," but for me it struck the same chords as this.

Sansa & Jon meeting was the other major highlight. I was so grateful that these characters were mercifully allowed to reunite and join forces. Sansa is really stepping up, isn't she? And thankfully, it seems to have less to do with her rape, and more to do with wanting Winterfell back. Reasons for optimism: Surely it's too soon for Jon or Sansa to suffer another defeat, story-wise. Littlefinger's "army of the Vale" plus other Northern houses plus the Wildlings (specifically threatened in that letter) should be enough to take Winterfell, right?

There was a lot of great humor in this episode. Tormund being smitten with Brienne. Sand in the face not working.

I think Meereen yielded mixed results this time. I'm going to blame it on Misandei and Greyworm's acting abilities, honestly. Their eyes were almost bugging out of their heads. The camera picks up subtlety, you guys! Less is more! And Greyworm's accent is not great. (I suppose he would sound stilted speaking a foreign tongue, though, so it's tough to judge.)

Lots of brief important moments in this episode were handled pitch-perfectly. Like Theon and Yara.

[Sleepless]

^ A perfect response to the ep. I agree with everything you said, including best ep of the season so far. Soooo much happened.

[Drenk]

Well, that was a great episodes. Everything was moving toward an end goal with great scenes. Great characters moments, too. And Sansa is finally Sansa!

[polkablues]

There's a joke to be made about Ramsay and OSHA violations, but I can't be bothered to work it out.

[Sleepless]

There's a joke to be made about Ramsay and OSHA violations, but I can't be bothered to work it out.

It's not so much that he killed her, rather that he was wearing sandals while he did it.

Disclaimer: I don't know if he was *actually* wearing sandals.