DSLRs for video

[Pubrick]

did I miss someone posting this link?

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

comparison with a lot of the dslrs out there.

yeah, RK posted it.

The Great Camera Shootout

It's comparing DSLRs to each other and to film.  Unfortunately, that's not what I would really like to see (I'd like to see other HD cameras used), but wow, the results are pretty incredible.

hmm. i guess people just hate reaing this thread.

and now even moreso since i just pulled a stefen (new page)!

[Neil]

So, i'm considering getting this package
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Canon-Kiss-X4-Rebel-T2i-550D-SLR-Camera-7-lens-Kit-/130421735434?pt=Digital_Cameras

Does anyone have any thoughts on the quality of the lenses that come with it and or if the accessories that come with it are even worth it etc.

I've used the camera and i was very impressed with the footage.  The accessories are what i'm wondering about.  I'm sure the lenses can't be that nice for this price.

Thanks
&
Thanks p for directing me here.

[I Love a Magician]

60D, y'all



http://philipbloom.net/2010/08/26/canon-60d-officially-er-official/

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2010/08/25/canon-launch-eos-60d-1080p-articulated-screen-and-manual-audio-levels/

[Pubrick]

yeah, fuck, i just read about that on engadget..

to anyone who uses these, how important is it to have an articulated screen really?

the appeal to me is hopefully this will drive the price of the older models down. i love it these days when two-year old technology is still state of the art for my purposes.. i would be very happy with a 550D (maybe not two year old, but two generations or whatever).

[I Love a Magician]

screen wouldn't be too big a deal to me (i like to use a z-finder when i can), but i can see it coming in handy when you don't have a monitor on hand (i never have a monitor on hand). big thing for me is the controls. the t2i doesn't have a wheel so you have to adjust the aperture with buttons and shit, which is a hassle.

the price is nice, but it's still a bit out of my range when you throw in all the other stuff you would need (that z-finder is expensive as hell for some reason, some sort of mic [i use this because i'm usually shooting by myself], LENSES, plus the editing software)

[Reinhold]

i thought this article was worth sharing, though it's pretty easy to find:

For image quality buffs, DSLR video is off the table

by Devin Coldewey on December 2, 2008

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/12/02/for-image-quality-buffs-dslr-video-is-off-the-table/



The 5DmkII is, it should be said first, an excellent camera, and it takes amazing still photos. Many people seem to think, though, that along with their professional still camera they are getting a professional video camera. While the video it takes is leagues ahead of cheapo handheld HD cams like the MinoHD and Zi6, the video is fundamentally lower-quality than true, dedicated digital cinema cameras. This wouldn't need to be said if people weren't saying otherwise, and it's no slur against Canon either, but if misconceptions like this are allowed to continue, that's a problem.

Above you see a crop of a zone plate, a set of concentric circles often seen in photographic testing (like here but imagine circles) to determine sharpness, chromatic aberration, and that sort of thing. The image above is a still from some 1080p 5DmkII video taken by Jim Jannard, creator of the RED camera which the 5D is mistakenly compared to (partially RED's fault). Here's a resized version of the full image:



As you can see, there is some really egregious Moiré effect going on. Good example of how the circles should look here. Note that Moiré is seen in almost any capture of a zone plate or focus test, but this is particularly bad. What causes this? An assessment by Pango at the Reduser.net forum based on the sensor size and resolution suggests that the 5DmkII keeps every third line in the 16:9 AR area and resizes it horizontally to 1920 pixels, creating a 1920×1080 image. No one knows for sure, but something like that is almost certainly going on. The following image is very much an exaggeration, since normally you'd have much more information to interpolate, but it gets the idea across:



This method of throwing away lines, resizing and recombining them is of course much more noticeable when you can check out the individual frames and when the pixels are made super-visible, as above. However, when the technique is used to resize video, it results in a predictable pattern of aliasing, or jaggy lines and unnatural motion, along the edges of things that are diagonal, most so when they are close to horizontal. Near-vertical lines, faces and some details are interpreted all right, but edges signs, horizon lines, building edges, all these things, depending on their orientation, may have a shimmer or stepped quality to them. The Moiré pattern seen in the concentric circles above is an indicator of this problem, and shows at what angles and with which colors is it most likely to happen.

It's true that once resampled down to plain ol' HD or lower than that, it's nearly imposible to notice, and perhaps it's not so easy to see in the first place if you're not looking for it. But for real cinema, it's an insuperable barrier for DSLR video right now because they can't output video from their whole frame — thus the need to use every third line, or whatever technique is in use. I don't have a Moiré detection plate for a Nikon D90 or I'd have mentioned it more prominently; it may be that it's better, or worse, although the sensor of the D90 appears to read slower, resulting in more skew and jelly-motion.

I'm not sure how many people were really making a big deal about the new set of DSLRs being professional video cameras, but the few movies we've seen come out sure aren't doing anything to dispel that notion (other than the first one being really bad). If you were to see 5D or D90 video at full size projected in a theater, the disparities would be obvious.

I just thought I'd throw this out there so people know what's going on that makes a professional digital cinema camera different from a professional still camera that shoots video. Doubtless the problems go both ways as well: the RED may show up the 5DmkII in video, as well it should costing over ten times as much, but it can't touch it for still image quality and capability. Let's just stop comparing the two altogether. DSLRs will get better and their video is great for basic stuff, but there's just no comparison.

[pete]

my mentor/ filmmaking partner had a short little bitch session on his blog about this too, recently:
http://prolost.com/blog/2010/9/2/ha-ha-very-funny-canon-now-get-back-to-work.html

[Reinhold]

Jim Jannard (head of RED) said last week that the scarlet will not be a prosumer camera, effectively surrendering this part of the market to the big 3 HDSLR makers and Panasonic. So, no competition to encourage RAW video any time soon, and worst of all no scarlet under 10,000.

[Gamblour.]

my mentor/ filmmaking partner had a short little bitch session on his blog about this too, recently:
http://prolost.com/blog/2010/9/2/ha-ha-very-funny-canon-now-get-back-to-work.html

He makes a good argument. I've had my Canon T2i (same video as the 7d) for about a month, and hadn't noticed the loss in resolution from stills to video. But now that he points it out, I can see it. It's not crystal clear.

However, my camera was $900 with the kit lens, it shoots a really large image, and it's small. For indie filmmakers, this is a game-changer. Instead of the huge disparity between DV and film, you have amateurs looking a lot less amateur. I think trading off quality for cost is worth it, but that's just me.

[Pubrick]

He makes a good argument. I've had my Canon T2i (same video as the 7d) for about a month, and hadn't noticed the loss in resolution from stills to video. But now that he points it out, I can see it. It's not crystal clear.

However, my camera was $900 with the kit lens, it shoots a really large image, and it's small. For indie filmmakers, this is a game-changer. Instead of the huge disparity between DV and film, you have amateurs looking a lot less amateur. I think trading off quality for cost is worth it, but that's just me.

indeed, i think it's an issue for hardcore image enthusiasts.

i would only be shooting short films that would then be viewed online anyway. how many of these things will actually be seen on a big enough screen to make any discernible difference? even if a short film you make with the t2i gets selected to screen at some festival, they've been dealing with shitty video for so long that this upgrade (albeit imperfect) will just look amazing. also the general public doesn't give a shit, and they're the ones who watch things.

can someone direct me to a reputable non-ebay place to buy this camera in america with a selection of lens kits? it's down to $1300 here but that's way overpriced considering that the australian dollar is worth the same as the american dollar now. i should be able to save a few hundred dollars by importing it but i don't know the names of like respectable camera retailers in the US..

[Gamblour.]

I bought mine on Amazon, but there's also this site: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/675618-REG/Canon_4462B003_EOS_Rebel_T2i_Digital.html

I don't know if there's a problem with them shipping to Australia or not.

[Reinhold]

it's on sale at J&R in store. check out jr.com to see if they ship to AU

[pete]

ok once again quoting my mentor Stu, this is his blog where he argues why 60D is the best bet for those filmmakers solely interested in getting a HDSLR for video.

http://prolost.com/blog/2010/11/14/hdslr-shopping-what-you-want-is-a-canon-60d.html#comments

[Neil]

ok once again quoting my mentor Stu, this is his blog where he argues why 60D is the best bet for those filmmakers solely interested in getting a HDSLR for video.

http://prolost.com/blog/2010/11/14/hdslr-shopping-what-you-want-is-a-canon-60d.html#comments

I doubt that there would be too many people who would argue, but depending on the budget most of these cameras (DSLR) ,are game changers.

I know that isn't really the issue at hand, just adding that obvious bit.

[Reinhold]

http://m.edealinfo.com/deals/dealinfo.php?dealdate=2010-11-25&seqno=201

500 bucks off of canon bundle (not the stock lens) with a mem card and two canon IS lenses. Dunno if you can also apply the code that pete's friend mentions in his blog for another 100 off.