http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117957718.html?categoryid=13&cs=1
Aronofsky to direct 'Black Swan'
Universal fast-tracking ballet script
By MICHAEL FLEMING
Universal Pictures and Darren Aronofsky have turned to the world of ballet for what they hope will be his next directing effort.
The studio has acquired "Black Swan," a psychological thriller to be produced by Aronofsky's Protozoa and Mike Medavoy's Phoenix Pictures.
Aronofsky is attached to direct, and John McLaughlin has begun writing a thriller that looks at the manipulative relationship between a veteran dancer and a rival. The studio is fast-tracking the project for Aronofsky, who most recently helmed "The Fountain."
Eric Watson, who partners with Aronofsky in their U-based Protozoa shingle, will produce with Phoenix's Medavoy and Arnie Messer. Brad Fischer and David Thwaites will exec produce.
Aronofsky and Watson previously worked with McLaughlin on an HBO series pilot on haunted housing, as well as "Song of Kali," a Protozoa-produced adaptation of Dan Simmons' terror novel for New Regency.
"Black Swan" was set up at Universal on the basis of a detailed outline hatched by the director and writer.
Phoenix, which debuts the Rod Lurie-directed "Resurrecting the Champ" at Sundance this weekend, has a busy spring. Paramount opens the David Fincher-directed "Zodiac" on March 2, and Fox bows the Marcus Nispel-directed "Pathfinder" in April. Warner Bros. releases the Ken Kwapis-directed comedy "License to Wed" on July 4.
Natalie Portman to sing 'Swan' song
Actress attached to Darren Aronofsky thriller
Source: Hollywood Reporter
Darren Aronofsky's "Black Swan" could soon be taking flight.
After being set up in early 2007 at Universal, the project -- a supernatural thriller set in the world of New York City ballet -- has been reconstituted after being put into turnaround by the studio. It has been making the rounds to studios and specialty divisions, several of which are keenly interested.
Among the elements giving it a boost: Natalie Portman is attached to play the lead.
Several other changes have occurred since the Aronofsky-helmed project was first developed by Universal.
Mark Heyman, a development exec at Aronofsky's Protozoa Pictures, has done a rewrite of John McLaughlin's original script for the pic, which Mike Medavoy's Phoenix Pictures and Protozoa are producing.
Aronofsky, meanwhile, has gone on to helm the critical and commercial favorite "The Wrestler," putting him in high demand.
CAA packaged and is selling "Swan"; it also reps Portman and Aronofsky.
"Swan" centers on a veteran ballerina (Portman) who finds herself locked in a competitive situation with a rival dancer, with the stakes and twists increasing as the dancers approach a big performance. But it's unclear whether the rival is a supernatural apparition or if the protagonist is simply having delusions.
Those who've read the script say it's a spine-tingler with elements of "The Others," the Nicole Kidman breakout in which viewers are left to discern what's real and what's imagined.
If a sale happens imminently, "Swan" could begin shooting as early as this year. Aronofsky has not committed to a movie that's ready to go, though he has been developing the "Robocop" reboot at MGM.
I hope this is something Aronofsky is passionate about. He's got a lot of clout right now and this is his kind of get out of jail free card. If there was ever a time to make something he's passionate about that he may never be able to make again, this is that time. I wonder how The Fountain would have turned out if he had this same sort of clout when he was attempting to get that made. Regardless of how his next project turns out, he'll get another chance to make something.
Mila Kunis hunts 'Black Swan'
Starring opposite Natalie Portman in Aronofsky's drama
Source: Hollywood Reporter
SAN DIEGO -- Mila Kunis will be Natalie Portman's nemesis.
The actress is in discussions to star opposite Portman in Darren Aronofsky's supernatural drama "Black Swan." The pic centers on a talented ballerina (Portman) in the New York City Ballet who is tormented by a rival who might or might not be a figment of the dancer's imagination.
Kunis will play the rival, Lilly, with strange occurrences between the two increasing as they prepare for a big performance.
Kunis, who broke out with her role as Jason Segel's love interest in last year's "Forgetting Sarah Marshall," was among the standouts at Comic-Con during the weekend. The actress, repped by CAA and Curtis Management, turned out to promote turns in Denzel Washington starrer "The Book of Eli," the Ben Affleck-toplined comedy "Extract" and her voice role in the animated Fox series "Family Guy."
Kunis also is set to co-star in the relationship comedy "Date Night" alongside Steve Carell and Tina Fey.
"Swan" is set to begin shooting in the fall in New York. Aronofksy's Protozoa Pictures is producing with Mike Medavoy's Phoenix Pictures. The project is being financed independently, with Michael London's Groundswell Prods. believed to be one of the lead financiers.
The project does not have distribution, but Fox Searchlight, which distributed Aronofsky's "The Wrestler," could come on board as it moves into production.
Script review:
http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2009/08/black-swan.html
Aronofsky's Swan Attracts Ryder, Cassel
Source: ShockTillYouDrop
Darren Aronofsky's next directorial effort, and supernatural thriller, Black Swan has found its co-stars.
According to Slash Film, Vincent Cassel, Winona Ryder and Barbara Hershey will join previously announced cast members Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis.
The film centers on a veteran ballerina (Portman) who finds herself locked in a competitive situation with a rival dancer, with the stakes and twists increasing as the dancers approach a big performance. But it's unclear whether the rival is a supernatural apparition or if the protagonist is simply having delusions.
I liked this script, which you can find here (http://www.mediafire.com/?4jxajmmvmwj).
If you'd like to know my thoughts, highlight the text below because there will be mild spoilers (but not as spoilerful as the script review two posts above this one).
This script is a slow burn, which bothered the script reviewer from ScriptShadow, but I enjoyed it. Then again, I found Robert Altman's The Company, which is meandering and patiently observant, absolutely riveting (and it's become one of my favorite films). This script for Black Swan takes some time with the detail of putting on a ballet show, and is fairly good at taking you into the world of ballet. The whole first half of the script is about this world and about Natalie Portman's character, who is very insecure, struggling to find the confidence to play the lead role in Swan Lake.
I thought it was all very effective and I really sided with her and felt her struggle. I appreciated that it took the time to set this up, because it makes the last half all the most intense when it comes. I won't say anything too specific about that, though. Anyway, I was never bored with the script.
The script suits Aronofsky well, I think. The end has moments of horrifying absurdity, which would look silly in the hands of an incapable director, but Aronofsky has shown that he can pull off horrifying absurdity (i.e., Sara Goldfarb's refrigerator coming to life in Requiem for a Dream) and actually make it horrifying. But this will be a challenge for Aronofsky, just because he'll really have to sell us on the ballet stuff, and this has movie stars instead of real dancers. Aronofsky did a good job with taking us into the world of wrestling with The Wrestler; he'll have to do the same with this film, but ballet dancers train forever to be as good as they are, and I'd hate to see weak dancing in this film. I'm optimistic though, because I don't think Aronofsky would let it slide, and he has a good eye for what looks realistic and what looks actory.
Natalie Portman's "rival" is supposed to look a lot like her, and I don't feel like Mila Kunis looks enough like her to have been the best cast person for this role. Also, I am worried about their abilities as dancers. They're really supposed to be amazing dancers, and there are a lot of scenes that rely on the dancing being jaw-droppingly good. We'll see what happens with that. But there are moments when Mila's character repeatedly fades in and out of looking exactly like Natalie Portman, and I thought that would have worked better of the actress playing Mila's part looked a lot like Natalie to begin with. However, it's only Natalie Portman's character who ever points out that they look similar, and she is not really of sound mind when she says this stuff.
As far as the two looking similar and how that gets repeatedly blurred so that you're not sure who's who, it's reminiscent of Persona and Mulholland Drive and Fight Club, but this is a much more straight-forward film than those are. The film is a psychological drama/gothic tragedy, and a pretty good one.
There are a few things that could use better development, but I know that I haven't read the latest draft. I think what I've read is close to the final draft, but I think Aronofsky did a pass after this one. The draft I read was written by Mark Heyman, which is a re-write of the original draft by John McLaughlin. Probably the weakest element for me is the generic, kinda cliche bitchiness/competition/jealousy among the dancers. A movie like The Company showed that that stuff doesn't really exist in that way, but it's kind of a tradition of dancing movies and it raises the dramatic stakes... so it's here.
There's probably more I could say, but I think I've said enough for now. I look forward to seeing it.
Agreed on the dancing. I bet they'll do some face replacement, a la Cate Blanchett dancing in Benjamin Button.
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manic chris martin is in this?
and he has a hover-scarf that he operates with a little hand-pad
you left out the freakiest photo:
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a friend has noticed how different nat and mila's meals are in this photo.. perhaps port takes the ballet super seriously (exotic salad dish) but mila doesn't even have to try and is just as talented (big ol cheeseburger)? sort of a falooza-esque rivalry?
Yes also notice that one is super hot and that the other has done nothing for me lately.
Naw. They're both really pretty. Especially NatPo.
I feel like Natalie's approximately five years away from being described as "a handsome woman".
To put it another way, she's currently about a six on the Blanchett scale.
JUST ANNOUNCED! Darren Aronofsky's BLACK SWAN Will Open On December 1st
The film starring Natalie Portman, Vincent Cassel and Mila Kunis will open in select theatres on December 1st and expand from there.
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http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/blackswan/
Wow! Will this beat Inception as film of the year??? Looks awesome.
This looks really beautifully executed. I'm still a little worried about the dance sequences, but I really dig the style (Aronofsky/Libatique is a hard team to beat for style).
It's probably going to be really effective at creeping people the fuck out.
I wasnt ready for how Cronenberg-ian that would be, this looks great. and hot.
i dunno. it's a lot like the wrestler trailer. or the never let me go trailer scream. too much intense emotion + not enough context. i still know this'll be amazing, i just don't think they'll do a good job marketing it.
I want as close to zero context in my trailers as possible: I want to know the visual style, tone, mood, and a hint of narrative. This does that pretty damn well, so I'm happy.
That last shot of her removing the whatever-the-fuck Brundel fly hair that was on her shoulder was very, yes Cronenberg, but also very much like Pi with the scar or Requiem with the needle wound on the arm. VERY EXCITED NOW. Could 2010 turn out ok?
Quote from: Pas on August 17, 2010, 04:36:11 PM
Wow! Will this beat Inception as film of the year???
Yes.
Along with ten other films.
Which? Haha first one that came to mind was Kick Ass but probably not what you mean haha.
ha! Your interpretation was miles better than my intention. Well done.
i'm sold.
aronofsky has yet to disappoint me.
i really think he's on his way to become one of the greats. just give him 20 years.
This is tied for best poster/trailer combo with Let Me In.
Faux lesbianism! Whip pans! Elegantly shot masturbation scenes! Honestly if Aronofsky's name wasn't on this I would have pegged it as a straight-to-premium-cable Single White Female ripoff with ballet but the premise is intriguing and it's Aronofsky so of course I'm in.
I am really trying to ween myself off trailers though. I just saw Winter's Bone without knowing anything about it (more on that later) and the experience was amazing, like tasting your first beer or popping your cheery all over again. How do you anti-trailer freaks do it?
Quote from: ©brad on August 19, 2010, 11:25:41 AM
Faux lesbianism! Whip pans! Elegantly shot masturbation scenes! Honestly if Aronofsky's name wasn't on this I would have pegged it as a straight-to-premium-cable Single White Female ripoff with ballet but the premise is intriguing and it's Aronofsky so of course I'm in.
I agree to all of this. Every last word.
It's almost like something DePalma would do, but probably more like something Antonioni would do. So more Blow Up than Blow Out.
Which is fine, I guess... but Blow Out was really fucking fun. So here's hoping this will be a pretty good time, as well.
so is this officially DA's Perect Blue?
Quote from: 72teeth on August 20, 2010, 02:36:39 AM
so is this officially DA's Perect Blue?
didn't think of it that way but you're right!
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi35.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd179%2Fpolkablues%2FFatSwan-1.png&hash=c427e9b044d4c7276211ecda33e0bf60f7ec6d79) (http://ratnerfilms.tumblr.com/)
haha oh my. he looks like nat po.
"academy award attendee" haha
Polka you've outdone yourself.
You should center the logo! Then it's a masterpiece. :bravo:
Quote from: modage on August 23, 2010, 10:16:25 AM
You should center the logo! Then it's a masterpiece. :bravo:
Yeah, that was a pretty lazy oversight. Fixed.
Quote from: polkablues on August 23, 2010, 06:49:05 PM
Quote from: modage on August 23, 2010, 10:16:25 AM
You should center the logo! Then it's a masterpiece. :bravo:
Yeah, that was a pretty lazy oversight. Fixed.
Fits the Ratner theme though.
'Black Swan' Director Darren Aronofsky On Ballet, Natalie Portman And Lesbian Kisses
Source: MTVNews
In one corner, you have Mickey Rourke, all serrated flesh and oozing blood, leaping from the top rope because that's how wrestlers roll. In the other corner, you have Natalie Portman, austere and intense, turning pirouettes because that's what a ballerina is born to do.
The two are connected, if you can believe it. And why not? As Darren Aronofsky explains, 2008's Oscar-nominated "Wrestler" is in essence a companion piece to his forthcoming "Black Swan." The athletes he focuses on are so consumed with their professions that they are swept up and eventually overtaken, with the end result being that there is no dividing line between ballerina and ballet, between wrestler and wrestling.
In the new film, Natalie Portman stars as Nina, a New York City ballerina about to assume the lead position in her company for a production of "Swan Lake." Competition and disturbing psychological warfare arrive in the form of the rival dancer Lilly (Mila Kunis), who awakens in Nina a dark side that brings objective reality into question.
Aronofsky has been wanting to make a film about the world of ballet for a decade. In a recent interview with MTV News, the director spoke about the movie's psychological and supernatural undertones, the research he did for the film and the much-buzzed-about make-out session between the two leading ladies.
MTV: Let's begin with the "Black Swan" trailer, because it really seemed to capture people's imaginations. How involved to you get in the process? What are you looking to communicate and also withhold?
Darren Aronofsky: It's funny, because I literally finished the film yesterday. It's been a incredible mad dash to the finishing line, and to be frank, I really surrendered to the studio and I have to credit Fox Seachlight with doing a lot of the heavy lifting. In the past, I've worked very hard on the trailers, but I just didn't have any time. I had to finish the movie. When I saw the trailer for the first time, I was very impressed. I thought it was exciting. You never know how audiences are going to react. I generally do these films that are hard to fit into boxes and they're hard to sum up in two minutes. I'm glad people are enjoying it.
MTV: And I guess it doesn't hurt to have .
Aronofsky: Yeah, I know. A lot of people already knew that was happening. A screenplay got out there and someone wrote about it on the Internet and the next thing you know CNN is reporting on it. It's definitely something that happens in the film, but it's just the tip of the exciting things that happen.
MTV: I think it's kind of interesting for you to be going from wrestling to ballet, because there's probably more of a similarity there than people might think, just in terms of choreography and competitiveness and things like that.
Aronofsky: Exactly. I've always considered the two films companion pieces. They are really connected and people will see the connections. It's funny, because wrestling some consider the lowest art — if they would even call it art — and ballet some people consider the highest art. But what was amazing to me was how similar the performers in both of these worlds are. They both make incredible use of their bodies to express themselves. They're both performers. At one point, way before I made "The Wrestler," I was actually developing a project that was about a love affair between a ballet dancer and a wrestler, and then it kind of split off into two movies. So I guess my dream is that some art theater will play the films as a double feature some day.
MTV: I have a feeling if you suggest it, someone will take you up on it. They'll just make you run the projector and scoop the popcorn.
Aronofsky: Exactly. I'm fine with that.
MTV: I know you did a lot of research for "The Wrestler," going to matches and talking to wrestlers. What was your process like for "Black Swan"?
Aronofsky: Ballet is a very insular world. There's a lot of privacy, and it's hard to get in. Normally when you say, "I want to make a movie about your world," the doors open up and you get tremendous access. The ballet world could give two sh--s about anyone making a film about their world. For people that do ballet, ballet is their universe and they're not impressed by movies. I did find dancers that shared their stories with me, some retired, some working. Eventually I got to stand backstage when the Bolshoi came to Lincoln Center, standing in the wings watching some of the greatest dancers in the world. I got to see some amazing athletes up close and experience what they were going through.
MTV: Are you standing there watching as a director, like storyboarding your movie, or are you just taking in the spectacle?
Aronofsky: Most of my time, I'd be thinking, "This is an amazing closeup, but how am I going to let audiences appreciate this?" Wrestling, it's very clear how to show that. My goal there was to show how much it actually, physically hurt. People always think it's fake, and my point was, "Sure it's fake, the outcome is already decided, but the stunts are not fake. These are real people falling onto a concrete floor." For me, what was so interesting about ballet was these athletes have done it for so many years — some of them start at four or five years old — and they make it effortless, so that you cannot see the skill involved. It's almost impossible to experience how hard it is to get your leg over your head when you're standing on the tip of your foot. It looks so easy. But when you're up close, you can see the muscles ripping. For me, it was about, "How do I make that effort visually exciting?"
MTV: I spoke with Natalie back when she was promoting "Brothers," and she talked about wanting to get away from "cute and girly" roles. "Black Swan" clearly doesn't seem cute and girly. What's your sense of why she wanted in?
Aronofsky: It's kind of weird. It came together really well. One of the best things about the film is the casting of Natalie. She took the part and ran with it. I don't know if when I was working with the writers we were consciously channeling Natalie or Natalie somehow transformed herself to the part, but they grew together. I first talked with Natalie about this project at least 10 years ago. We were in Times Square and had a coffee at the old Howard Johnson. I had this idea of setting something in the ballet world. It was very loose. I didn't have a script. And then I found out she was fascinated by ballet and wanted to play a dancer.
MTV: Was that when it was still that ballet/wrestling film?
Aronofsky: No, that was after. I realized pretty quickly that taking two worlds like wrestling and ballet was much too much for one movie. So we met and for years it was something I've been developing and struggling with and when I finishing up "The Wrestler," a guy who worked in my company, Mark Heyman, he had done a lot of writing and producing on "The Wrestler," and I asked if he wanted to give the ballet project a shot. He jumped in and he turned it into something we could make.
MTV: For Mila's role, you needed someone who looks like Natalie, but obviously it can't just be about looks. It's got to be the right actor. How do you approach that sort of casting challenge?
Aronofsky: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw "Forgetting Sarah Marshall," and she just leapt off the screen. So natural and so beautiful. I'd never seen her TV show. So she was in my head, and then Natalie said, "Hey, for the part of Lilly, what about my friend Mila Kunis?" I was in Europe, and we met over iChat and she was natural and cool and seemed relaxed and excited and then I just hired her. It was a leap of faith.
MTV: At Comic-Con, Natalie compared the movie to a psychological thriller like "Rosemary's Baby." Does that ring true for you?
Aronofsky: I'm a huge Polanski fan. Probably "Repulsion" and "The Tenant" are better comparisons than "Rosemary's Baby." They were big influences on "Black Swan," as they've been on all my films. Unfortunately for my checkbook, I don't really make movies that can be put in a box. I don't know what it is. It's not like much out there.
MTV: It definitely seems that it toes that line of, "Is this purely psychological? Does magical realism come into play?" Not that you're going to tell me the answer, but were those ideas in your head?
Aronofsky: It's definitely an experience. But the trailer should give you everything — it's all in there! No, no, it's got a lot of sources that I get inspired by and influenced by. It's like, "What the hell was 'Pi'?" I'm not really sure. Definitely "The Fountain" was outside the box. I guess "The Wrestler" was the most straightforward thing I've done. I think I was trying to make a sports film. I guess I don't do genre very well.
MTV: You seem to be doing OK so far.
Aronofsky: I don't know. Everyone will see in a few days.
MTV: Yeah, you're opening the Venice Film Festival. Do you get nervous for stuff like that or are you cool, calm and collected?
Aronofsky: I always get nervous when I show work to an audience. Eventually they're going to have to see it. When "The Wrestler" showed at Venice the last time, I walked out in the middle. I couldn't handle it. I snuck back in the end. It was not a pleasant experience.
MTV: You're staring at the people, going, "Are they liking it? Are they liking it?"
Aronofsky: Unfortunately, I don't make the kind of films where you can tell if they're liking it. It's not a laugh-fest. It's a tough job. It's a tough job.
First Impressions: 'Black Swan' Drawing Comparisons To Roman Polanski & David Cronenberg At The Venice Film Festival
Source: ThePlaylist
Darren Aronofsky's "Black Swan" has opened the Venice Film Festival and reviews are now coming in fast; most describe a film that wears the influences the director has pointed to -- "All About Eve," "The Tenant," "The Red Shoes" -- very clearly, but also very powerfully. The film centers on the relationship between a veteran ballet dancer (Natalie Portman) and a rival, played by Mila Kunis, who may or may not be a figment of the dancer's imagination, and co-stars Winona Ryder, Vincent Cassel, Sebastian Stan and Barbara Hershey. Here's what critics are saying about the film.
Variety's Peter Debruge makes the clear the connection between "Black Swan" and "The Wrestler" (which Aronofsky called companion pieces) noting that the film "serves as a fascinating complement to Darren Aronofsky's "The Wrestler," trading the grungy world of a broken-down fighter for the more upscale but no less brutal sphere of professional ballet." Even more intriguing, he notes that "Aronofsky seems to be operating more in the vein of early Roman Polanski or David Cronenberg at his most operatic.....the latter third of "Black Swan" depicts a highly subjective view of events that calls to mind the psychological disintegration of both 'Repulsion' and 'Rosemary's Baby.'"
Mike Goodridge at Screen International (via Awards Daily) says the film is an Oscar lock, with Natalie Portman in particular earning high praise. "If the film is ultimately too unsettling to snag main prizes, it has at least one nomination in the bag for lead actress Natalie Portman who gives one of "those" performances, transforming herself after ten months of training into an accomplished ballerina, almost uncomfortable to watch as she consumes her difficult role....like Catherine Deneuve in 'Repulsion' or Mia Farrow in 'Rosemary's Baby,' she captures the confusion of a repressed young woman thrown into a world of danger and temptation with frightening veracity."
In his four-star review, Guy Lodge at InContention reveals the film to be "a contemporary fairy tale of sorts: the story of a little girl, in the fierce grip of controlling adults, who wants nothing more than to dance, and learns that she must exchange part of herself for the opportunity....that's only after it has successfully masqueraded as a taut, witty and wickedly kinky thriller that pulls off the tricky double-bluff of following precisely the narrative course one has mapped out for it, yet emerging as all the more surprising for that adherence."
IndieWire's Todd McCarthy opens his review by calling the film "'Red Shoes' on acid," but isn't quite as taken with it. He finds that the film eventually goes "goes over the top in something approaching grand guignol fashion," though he gives praise for Cassel's "commanding performance" as a French choreographer, and Hershey gets singled out for her "grating" performance as Portman's mother who nurses "a perennial grudge over having given up her own career to raise her daughter, to the point where she resembles the mother in 'Carrie' more than someone who actually lives in the real world."
Kirk Honeycutt of The Hollywood Reporter is perhaps the most clear cut about his displeasure with film, giving "Black Swan" its first outright pan, admiring its technical achievements but not buying its narrative. "'Swan' is an instant guilty pleasure, a gorgeously shot, visually complex film whose badness is what's so good about it. You might howl at the sheer audacity of mixing mental illness with the body-fatiguing, mind-numbing rigors of ballet, but its lurid imagery and a hellcat competition between two rival dancers is pretty irresistible," adding that the "horror-movie nonsense drags everything down the rabbit hole of preposterousness."
But if you're just looking for unabashed praise, Robert Beames at Obsessed With Film blows a pantload calling "Black Swan" "A perfect film that blends 'The Red Shoes' with 'Antichrist,' via Cronenberg," and saying it's the "best film I've seen all year. Left me devastated, excited, tense and emotionally drained. Tarantino will be a fool if he doesn't give this the Golden Lion (unless something even better is coming up!). Aronofsky has made his first masterpiece and Portman must now be favourite for the Oscar."
It's weird -- after seeing the trailer and reading the script, it feels as if I've already seen the movie. And it was just okay. These articles haven't said anything yet to make me change my mind. I don't see how it can be a masterpiece (quoting from the last article's last paragraph's high praise), when it fails to transcend anything and its emotional punch seems to be a bit of a cliche. Stylish and well made, well, obviously. Take me anywhere, show me anything new? Remains to be seen.
Best girl kisses first scene ever?
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It would have been really cool if they looked more similar, because then the breaking of the line (which I wouldn't be surprised if Aronofsky does throughout the film) would be extra trippy.
Saw it last night at the TIFF gala. I dont really have much to say about it. i liked it.
another awesome post by me.
i hate to break this to everyone but curb your enthusiasm.
the good: this is clearly an aronofsky film. it has the care, the visual inventiveness, the terrific blocking etc. and it's incredibly visceral. your stomach will churn/get flipped upside down.
unfortunately, as an artistic statement, it falls short.
*incredibly vague, quasi-spoils. just talking about the overall shape of the film*
i think aronofsky overrates simplicity. at the time of the wrestler he was still saying he believed the fountain was his best, which it so isn't. and i've absolutely warmed up to it since my initial, painful reaction, but still, it suffers from its straightforwardness/overall obviousness. black swan isn't too different. everyone has a clear, defined role. the story has a fairly obvious arc to it, and nothing really happens beyond what you will probably guess. there are hints of a more interesting movie strewn throughout, but they are left vague. i think there's a movement right now towards characters without backstories, and it works for no country/blood, but that's because those characters represent something greater. giving them details would undermine their symbolism. in black swan, the lack of detail in portman's character only felt to me like a lost opportunity. btw, portman is really great and could not have done a better job with the material. vincent cassell, on the other hand, is clearrrly miscast. i'm very surprised aronofsky let a lot of his readings through, as it's clear english is not his first language, and about 70% of what he says just doesn't sound like how someone would actually talk. it's akin to saito in inception. he just can't speak english properly. i get that he's a french artistic director, but that's not an excuse for such weird/unintelligible timing.
as a 'companion' to the wrestler, it's very clear which film is superior. it's also clear where all the humour went. portman's character is fairly ridiculous and the closest we get to someone exposing that is kunis, but that's not close enough. the audience was laughing at moments that were definitely not supposed to be funny (at least not lol funny) because they were hungry for something to balance portman's pomposity. the film utterly lacks what the wrestler had in spades: the ability to jump between seriousness and hilarity. i'm not saying black swan needed to be as funny as the wrestler, but nothing this simple should be this self-serious.
*real spoils*
the ending has a nice degree of ambiguity to it, but coming on the heels of the wrestler, it feels unoriginal and uninspired. almost like going through the tragic motions. i would have been a lot more impressed if portman hadn't died, and achieved not only a great performance, but her own independence and character. i think it would have put a great spin on the movie as a whole, capturing the idea that great artists have to go through hell to make real art, and that sometimes people need to go through seriously fucked up periods to feel normal again. it would be a great emotional twist, since the movie paints her experience as fairly negative, but objectively she is finally coming to grips with who she is, and what she's been hiding from the world.
also, the final transformation into the swan is pretty effing anticlimactic. it just happens. cg's okay.
Austinites, it's going to be at AFF
Wow, lots of great stuff will be at AFF! Meek's Cutoff! 127 Hours! Blue Valentine! ... a Japanese remake of Sideways called Sideways!
Excited!
i haven't seen 127 hours, but a friend did at TIFF. he is a very level headed guy, and he totally lost his shit over it.
Check out four of the coolest posters your likely to see in a while. (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=29205)
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.empireonline.com%2Fimages%2Fimage_index%2Fhw800%2F45354.jpg&hash=5e55a986452fbadcecefc02ae5d303e87f36ebb6) (https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.empireonline.com%2Fimages%2Fimage_index%2Fhw800%2F45353.jpg&hash=8e41fc9b20a83b34499a72f46633b03f9b6cef08)
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MM MMMM Good!
Um holy fuck
Yes! Those look like proper movie posters!
So where do we buy tht?
This was great. Natalie Portman will never in her life get a role as good as this one again. It's just a complete showcase and she is amazing. More later/soon.
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That movie is a great poster.
from my blog (http://modage.tumblr.com/post/2082884833/black-swan):
It's crazy to think that I've been a Darren Aronofsky fan for a decade now. I saw Requiem For A Dream in Philadelphia on opening night in 2000 and was blown away. In 2006 I caught a CMJ advance screening of The Fountain and 2 years later attended the NYFF premiere of The Wrestler. After the perceived failure of The Fountain, (a film I love), I see the need for him to hit reset on his career, which The Wrestler did brilliantly. It wasn't as meticulously shot as his previous films and it was also the first script he didn't have a hand in writing. But The Wrestler, though his most critically acclaimed film, was the only disappointment for me. It was a good film built around Mickey Rourke's performance, but missing that crazy ambition present in all Aronofsky's other films.
Well that crazy ambition is back in Black Swan. Stylistically it's the best of both worlds. His regular DP Matthrew Libatique is back (after sitting out The Wrestler), mixing that film's looser style with the camera acrobatics of their earlier collaborations. The singular performer in this film is Natalie Portman, gives the performance in her career. She's in almost every shot and for 90% of the film the camera is never more than a few feet from her face. I can't imagine she'll ever get a role as great as this one again, something that allows her to transform herself physically and emotionally. It's pretty incredible. Some complaints have been lobbed at the film for being too melodramatic but it is a melodrama that builds to a thrilling climax. I loved the film but it's not going to be for everyone.
aronofsky's lesser qualities that i thought he rid himself of to his benefit in the wrestler are back in full, dubious force here. as well executed as black swan is, it's all mood with no discernible purpose other than shock value. it's an elegant-looking but thoroughly cheap amalgamation of repulsion and carrie (with ballet!), from which neither aronofsky nor his writer(s) learned that there's more to achieving character psychology through the macabre than insane visuals and disconcerting sound design. it doesn't hold much (or any) water in the way of interesting, developed insight to take anything remotely valuable from, nor is it enough of a trip to sustain an entire viewing as a sensory overload. and jesus does it get redundant. in the end it's all pretty tepid.
natalie portman's performance reminded me of charlotte gainsbourg's in antichrist, a visceral display of range for an unworthy film.
THANK YOU.
no one is saying this!!!!
what fucking brilliant camerawork.
I liked how stupid everything sounded on paper and how everything was pulled off. I also liked how all the gory double takes and psychotic episodes masked a pretty simple fairytale type of story. I also thought natalie portman was good enough to freak out without being hysterical. or maybe she is hysterical in your book - but I can't stand it when an actor becomes unwatchable from screaming and overacting too much, however "Realistic" he was supposed to be. natalie portman and her character never had the problem. her motivation was always pretty strong and never alienated anyone.
those handheld tracking shots did good.
I think it's a really good movie, but it still failed for me.
I wish I could pinpoint what went wrong (I don't necessarily disagree with Pic, but I don't really know if that's why it didn't work as well for me).
Acting, Camera-work, sound-design, editing, set-design... all were fantastic.
It just didn't make me feel anything. The only feelings I got from this were awe at the above elements and disgust at the physical pain she goes though. There was no hope, love, sympathy, or regret (all of which I felt during The Wrestler).
Saw this a couple of days ago. Understandably brilliant and had the feel of a horror film from the first frame. Sad and compelling. But like RK I didn't have an emotional cartharsis like I thought I would.
Saw this a 2nd time tonight. The last 20 minutes are just amazing.
Q: Who is the woman that Natalie Portman keeps seeing in the film? It's not her and it's not Mila Kunis. She appears a handful of times incl. during the hookup scene.
Visually it's a marvel. A technical masterpiece. It's like an A.S.C. wet dream. I can't wait to watch it on BD with my pants off. Some of the stuff Libatique does leaves you with your jaw on the floor. Vincent Cassell is total cheese in this. Seriously, WTF? He was a giant dumbass. I blame the script partially, but he shouldn't get out unscathed. Winona Ryder was pretty bad too. Barbara Hershey was pretty good. It's always good to see her. The real stars are Mila Kunis and Especially NatPo. I couldn't believe that was the annoying girl from That 70's Show. She was so good. Just perfect in her role as the polar opposite of Neena. I would have never picked her as the most talented one from that show (would have picked Topher Grace), but she nails it here. And NatPo -- it was almost distracting how pretty she is in this. Sharon Tate in The Fearless Vampire Killers pretty. Some of the scenes in this were, well, I can't wait to watch it on BD. As mod said, she will never get a role as good as this ever. When she makes her transformation, it was PERFECT.
It's kind of an empty film tho. You never really give a crap what happens. I wanted to be invested in the actual story and what happens next but found myself looking forward more to the gore and hawt secks. It picks up at the end, but by then, I didn't really care and just wanted to see what was going to happen on screen technically as oppose to what happens with the story. Overall, technically it's brilliant, but it will leave you wanting more. Still, out of all the films that seem to be getting clout this awards season, this is the one I hope does well.
Spoilers.
So she stabs herself while dressed as the white swan, gets dressed as the black swan, dances awesome, comes back to her dressing room, dresses back to the white swan, hears a knock on the door and sees Lilly alive, then realizes she stabbed herself. She didn't know this while switching from her white outfit that was blood infested, to her black outfit, and then back again?
End spoilers.
Here's some pictures of Aronofsky and his scarves.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flicksandbits.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2Faronofsky-natalie-portman.jpg&hash=126d3e752f01957f84391ef5036611e4bf8936c0)
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haha look at this one.
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Philip Roth's The Human Stain has a hilarious take on writers' obsession with wearing hats. I think Arnofsky is creating the cultural niche for scarves and directors. I can only hope if it takes, it's as amusing as these images here.
Quote from: modage on December 19, 2010, 06:32:44 PM
Saw this a 2nd time tonight. The last 20 minutes are just amazing.
Q: Who is the woman that Natalie Portman keeps seeing in the film? It's not her and it's not Mila Kunis. She appears a handful of times incl. during the hookup scene.
it's some kind of look alike I reckon, it's supposed to be Nina I think (but it's not played by NatPo)
anyway that film was hot as fuck. Can't believe it's PG13 here in Quebec. I know I will buy that bluray asap. My friend had a phone call during the little homework scene, poor fool!
the blackswan transformation was masterful
lol @ Aronscarfsky
i have no idea how this works, because if you sat there and described it to me i would think it was the stupidest piece of shit ever. i don't know that it really "means" anything in a larger sense, but it is quite the experience.
I think more than any movie, I'll compare this to the Sixth Sense in terms of style and tone. I mean, the Sixth Sense is taking all the supernatural elements literally, but this film is so embedded in the character's head that in the end it kinda does the same.
It's so nice to come here and read a variety of views and opinions on the film and agree with all of them.
I loved and was disappointed by this film. It's Aronofsky from start to finish, which is just a joy to watch, but the script is just not quite there. This film seems much more like PI than any of his other films. The camerawork, the paranoia, the wounds, the NY backgrounds, even the gritty film right down to the dude on the train. He has this thread of characters enduring physical trauma on their journeys (scar on head in Pi, arm wound in Requiem, Rourke's whole body in the Wrestler, and now this. I'm sure we'll see the sore wounds from Wolvie's claws in The Wolverine). The trauma creates a visceral connection to the characters, but not necessarily one that we, the audience, want to have.
I think Aronofsky would be the Kubrick of our day if he just had better material to work with. So much of Black Swan was innovative but, like someone said of NatPo's performance, so much brilliance wasted on a film that didn't deserve it. I laughed during the film from the pure joy of watching Aronofsky do ridiculous things, but I shook my head a lot as I wondered why he couldn't just change this dialogue or that piece of story. The melodrama takes over Aronofsky in the same way the swan takes over NatPo.
Didn't think this was a masterpiece, but would definitely buy the DVD and certainly put it up there as one of the best films of 2010. (Not that I've seen many yet, Inception still being tops). The acting was consistently the best thing about the film. I always resent myself afterwards for doing so, but here goes some bullshit awards talk: While NatPo is a likely contender for the Oscar win, I hope that Barbara Hershey gets some attention too. I agree with the sentiment of good performance, undeserving film too. I just found Nina's character to be really inaccessible. For all the Lynch-lite qualities of the film, I didn't feel like there was any descent into madness. To me, Nina was already wacko at the outset and although her crazies undeniably became more extreme as the film went on, the fact that was no real sense of normality at the beginning hurt the film for me. Another thing I really liked about the film was the recurring reflections throughout. By the time the pianist stormed out leaving her alone in the practice room I knew I should be afraid of mirrors. Also - and I'm not sure if this is just my poor facial recognition skills - but it seemed there was some moments where within a single scene it seemed Nina was played by NatPo/Kunis/Ryder/NatPo Celebrity Lookalike. That had to be intentional. Overall two thumbs up and it left me itching to rewatch The Red Shoes. Very cool film which could best be described as a tragedy about a sexually repressed woman's sexual awakening. I liked it.
P.S. Seeing the trailer for The Tree Of Life was an incredible experience in and of itself. Wow!!!
I've criticized every Darren Aronofsky film. Definitely was never a real fan, but Black Swan is amazing and one of the best films I saw from last year. Wrote a review of the film to explain why Black Swan is different from his other works.
http://filmsplatter.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/black-swan/
Oh, GT always defying the masses.
I didn't read any reviews here but I skimmed the thread and I thought most people liked the movie.
GT, you spelled "Aronofsky" wrong. I think the main difference between his earlier films and his last 2 films is the earlier ones he was more concerned with finding a visual way to tell the story. And in the newer ones he's centering them around a performer. Aronofsky said the reason was he didn't know how to direct actors before and now it's his favorite part of the process.
11 Things Learned About Darren Aronofsky's 'Black Swan' From Last Night's NYC Q&A
Source: The Playlist
With all this "guaranteed" Oscar talk for the haunting "Black Swan," it's easy to forget that Darren Aronofsky's exceptional 2008 Golden Lion holder "The Wrestler" not only lost the two nominations it had garnered (which includes the deeply moving game-changing performance by Mickey Rourke), but was completely snubbed for a Best Picture nomination, with the Academy amassing a pretty weak final five ("Frost/Nixon"? Really?). It's something to keep in mind as the date for the award ceremony's next iteration draws closer and closer, even if the Academy has been known to give "apology" awards, generally reserved for any time they have fucked up decisions in the past (which, taking a look back, is quite often). Really, though, anything could happen; those fogies are a queer bunch.
We're sure Aronofsky would love an Oscar connected to his latest project, but he seems to be in high, productive spirits regardless. Attached to numerous projects, including the now much-anticipated "The Wolverine" (who would've thought?) and "Machine Man," the man has a lot on his plate and we have plenty to look forward to. The Film Society of Lincoln Center recently just wrapped a retrospective of his oeuvre, with the man himself present at "The Wrestler" to chat about various subjects with the audience, which ranged from his views on "The Passion of the Christ" to why his movies are so grotesque. He does not, however, talk about his seemingly obsessive examination of the body—playfully laughing the subject away. Ah well. Here are 11 things we learned from the director's various musings:
1. Mickey Rourke's Oscar may have come at the cost of Aronofsky's affinity for the intense; he enjoys any reaction.
There's always that one person in the audience, and some are more vocal than others, but the conversation after January 5th's screening of "The Wrestler" was fairly lucky. A woman managed to ask, rather bluntly, why "Black Swan" was so grotesque. The filmmaker responded kindly and in a sort of self-deprecating way. "It's a very hard line to know when it's too much, and I'm generally on the wrong side of it. (laughs) I think the fork scene in Mickey's forehead cost him the Oscar. (laughs)" He elaborated further, "I've always had an attraction to the extreme. There's so many distractions out there, you have to be memorable if you want people to think about it 40 seconds afterwards. It's all incredibly serious, though it's great that people are reacting to it with horror, or laughter, or crying or whatever... I don't think the reaction matters, so long as they are reacting."
2. Aronofsky sees "Black Swan" as a werewolf movie.
While responding to the physicality of a ballet movie being important, he also mentions his angle to his newest offering. "It's about transformation, it's ultimately a werewolf movie. Swan Lake is about a girl trapped as a swan, at night she's half swan half human, so I saw it as a werewolf movie."
3. Many sound effects in the picture were a manipulation of a swan's cry.
We all knew that Darren often employed sound in a much more effective way than most modern American directors do, an example being Rourke's character walking from the grocery store back to the deli counter to the rousing, cheering crowd of a wrestling match. Call this something we didn't catch the first (or third) time around, but it turns out certain ordinary sound effects have an interesting creation point, giving them an eerie aura. "Most of the sounds in this film are manipulated swan sound. Everything from a flushing a toilet, subway... a swan noise... Sound is what takes it to the next level, I always make it part of that collaboration in filmmaking."
4. An early version of "The Wrestler" dates back to 1996.
It appears his comeback picture needed some time to marinate—more than a decade. "I was looking through my old e-mail, and I found an old e-mail from '96, basically the whole outline for "The Wrestler."
5. The pervert in the subway of "Black Swan" is a recurring character.
"That is the same pervert. He's also the ass-to-ass guy in "Requiem For a Dream." I felt bad for the guy, making him work for a day and calling crediting him 'the Pervert' so I called him Uncle Hank." Don't take the 1 train alone, New Yorkers.
6. Hand-held Dardenne-O-Vision for "The Wrestler" was bore mostly due to the casting of Mickey Rourke.
"I was trained in documentary, cinema-verité, so it was always in me. When I got to "The Wrestler," I was like... there's no way Mickey Rourke's gonna hit a mark, let alone remember his lines. So we had to come up with something else and we tried that, and I loved the way the shots handed off to one another."
7. Filmmaking is mostly a craft, acting is art.
While this writer disagrees and thinks the director should not be so modest, he claims "Filmmaking is barely an art, it's mostly a craft. I think in acting there's an art. 95% of my job is bureaucracy. Originally I had no idea what to do with actors... I took acting classes, I set up a test, all I wanna do is cry in front of a class and then I quit. I took Eisner until I cried, left the next day. Now I love directing actors, it became the most pleasurable part of the job as opposed to setting up shots for stunts, things like that."
8. He is writing a new project by himself, but it is in its infancy.
"The worst part of writing is going off alone to write it. 98% of it sucks, I like it but I love the collaboration. I do want to write again, I'm just very lucky to be at a place where I'm working with great writers. I have a brief outline of something but it's very early." Exciting, but there are numerous other long-gestating projects that seem to be much further along, such as his take on Noah's Ark, "The Tiger," or "Jackie." (All detailed in our Open Letter to the director, trying to dissuade him from "The Wolverine.")
9. He has reservations on "The Passion of the Christ."
No surprise here, but Mel Gibson's controversial picture that details the ass-kicking of our lord and savior is questionable in Aronofsky's eyes. "I definitely had problems with it. Now it's obvious, but I was like... man this guy hate's Jews. (laughs) I think the 'Passion' is a legitimate story to tell, but with the casting there were many Jewish stereotype roles, so I had a problem with that. There's no doubt he's an exceptional filmmaker, they're all very powerful, but I did have problems with it as a Jew."
10. Editor Andrew Weisblum, along with the director himself, make fun of actors in post-production.
Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt take note. "I have a really brutal editor... and you wouldn't want to be the actors as we sit there and make fun of all the performances. I'd lose all trust of actors if they knew what I said. We have to distance ourselves from the emotions and get the best for the film."
11. The only reason to do the next 'Wolverine' movie is to get into the New York Film Festival.
On why he is doing the sequel to one of Marvel's biggest disasters committed to celluloid, he sarcastically responded with a big wink, "I'm doing it because it's probably the only way to get into the New York Film Festival." Of course, the same movie he was presenting had closed the festival back in 2008. What a kidder. After this playful jest, he admitted something which we all knew but probably needed to hear again, as much as we don't like to. "We'd all love to do "Chariots of Fire" for $200 million, but all Hollywood is making are comic-book and video game movies right now. For me, it's a different type of challenge, for these other pictures, the challenge in getting the money for them has been greater than actually making them in a lot of ways. I've been the only person in the room that wanted to make them. I have to keep trying new things, and I do think there are interesting stories and characters in those world."
"Black Swan" is still playing in a theater near you and you should see it if you haven't already.
Quote from: modage on January 09, 2011, 10:16:06 AM
GT, you spelled "Aronofsky" wrong.
um, both wrong. it's spelled
Quote from: Pozer on December 20, 2010, 01:32:45 PM
Aronscarfsky
Quote from: RegularKarate on December 13, 2010, 01:25:39 PM
I wish I could pinpoint what went wrong.
Acting, Camera-work, sound-design, editing, set-design... all were fantastic.
It just didn't make me feel anything. The only feelings I got from this were awe at the above elements and disgust at the physical pain she goes though.
need to see this again asap to hopefully discover why this is for this is the way it is. it almost feels unfinished. it feels like it needed a few more passes in the editing cave or something. the final sequence was brilliant yet it didnt serve as any sort of payoff. cant say what needed more refining, script or the cut. i dunno. i MOSTLY love it. mostly love it but slightly dont.
Quote from: Pozer on January 10, 2011, 11:04:38 PM
Aronscarfsky
That reminds me, last week when I saw the Q&A (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=9447.msg299578#msg299578) with Mr. Aronscarfsky I was thinking "he's not wearing a scarf!"
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But as soon as he got up, he put one on. Score for Pozer.
So here's how i'm nominating. Five movies.
Black Swan
127 Hours
Social Network
True Grit
Inception
Social Network was great. It was definitely the funniest of the five . Inception was the most fun and the most intriguing. True Grit felt the best, i love the western, i love the coens, this was perfect combination of the two. The coen's making a film in the tradition of film. I've been studying the "western" for the past 3 years in college and they hit every note with that one. 127 hours i like because of the very idea of filming an entire movie in one location with one actor (franco gets my best act nod). But....
Black Swan is the best film of the year.
The reason i visit this site, i think, is because i'm in love with the craft itself of filmmaking. No other director even came close to what Aronofsky achieved. I'm not really understanding where all this guff about "not being invested in the characters" or the story or whatever. I thought this was magnificent. The acting, sound, cinematography, MISE EN FUCKING SCENE!, everything about this movie was great and no other (american) movie even comes close.
I agree with you, man. I usually rate how good a film is by its re-watchability and this is one of those I'm gonna need to see a few more times and probably own. Here I was thinking 2010 had been slacking on horror movies, and this comes out of the woodwork to bite me in the ass just when I was starting to feel safe. It happens every year, but what a treat and surprise.
NatPo, best actress fa sho'.
Good special effects reel for film, SPOILERS THOUGH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n71sjmd-bM&feature=player_embedded#
admin edit: spoilers alert
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on January 30, 2011, 01:20:25 AM
Good special effects reel for film,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n71sjmd-bM&feature=player_embedded#
Seriously don't watch this if you haven't seen the movie. But that shit was fucking dope
man, getting rid of the crew was so natural i didn't even think about it until just now even though the film is like 99% mirrors.
amazing work.
legs still look dumb tho.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.nymag.com%2Fimages%2F2%2Fdaily%2F2008%2F10%2F20081001_mbay_250x250.jpg&hash=5f759c54a971e5ba0dd0e53ac90acd880027abec)"Easiest visual effects ever. All you did was fuck with skin and shoes. Hey, try making fire, brimstone, explosions, Armageddon. Yeah, any bozo with an idea and a hot girlfriend could make dancing look badass, but try making Apocalypse look cool. I might make that too. Who knows? Only thing for sure is I won't make a dancing movie. I blow shit up and make it look awesome. Wolverine II? LOL. I might make that too."
wow, some of you guys (picolas particularly) are being pretty tough on this awesome movie. I'm basically reading your complaints and not understanding a word. When this ended I wanted to stand up and clap. Portman is spectacular. All this talk about never caring what will happen to her is really weird. I thought she was the real thing, she sold this character from the get go and you just wanted her to overcome whatever obstacles were coming for her.
This is the story of an artist unable to break free of her search to perfection. The conflict is will she be able to do that or not. What illuminating truth were you guys expecting from this old age story?
spoils
it's not just about trying to be perfect and whether or not she'll succeed.. it's about her struggle to repress anything she sees as ugly and the eventual acceptance of her ugly side as part of that 'perfection.'
i was expecting something unexpected. it's pointless to tell an age old story if nothing is different about it this time. they keep referencing the whole arc of the movie within the movie. and then it just kinda unfolds exactly how you think it will. sure it feels crazy and it looks great and it makes you all shocked and stuff, but a strictly visceral experience of a limited story is shallow cinema. as i said, the only thing that could have surprised me in the final few minutes was if it had ended happily. she deserved to feel great and not die after coming to accept and harness all the fucked up things about herself. but of course it has to be some kind of tragedy where perfection costs you your life.. of course. that's how art works. it can never be a healthy release of creative, or even bordeline-violent energy. nope. it's a THEATRE OF DEATH. NO OTHER WAY. i know aronofsky is better than this. unfortunately he was tempted and ensnared by the simple, good-looking apple this time around, similar to the fountain.
natpo was great. she deserves to win. but i'm stunned by how overrated this insanely predictable movie has become. where was this adoring general public when the wrestler happened?
i'll watch it again eventually because i want to be wrong so it stops bugging me that finally aronofsky has been embraced by the mainstream for one of his weakest films.
Quote from: picolas on February 05, 2011, 11:15:33 PM
i was expecting something unexpected. it's pointless to tell an age old story if nothing is different about it this time. they keep referencing the whole arc of the movie within the movie. and then it just kinda unfolds exactly how you think it will. sure it feels crazy and it looks great and it makes you all shocked and stuff, but a strictly visceral experience of a limited story is shallow cinema.
It wasn't unexpected? Aronofsky is taking elements of psychological horror and applying new methods of realism to it. It's funny because Roman Polanski invented the modern form of psychological horror and he borrowed American attributes to form his European background of storytelling while Aronofsky is borrowing European touches for his American sense. I saw a lot of the Dardenne brothers and other tougher filmmakers in this film.
This is a form of genre so the stories will never fully extend out or add obvious layers of depth. That takes it outside of its genre form, but I found the construction of the film to be pretty thrilling, intense, and also revelatory. The visual visceral aspect of the film helps to extend out to a possible incest theme within the story. It has to do with Portman and her mother.
Since Portman's character is delusional and the camera feeds through her psyche, a moving storyline within the film is the possible incest with her mother. They interact in weird ways where Portman doesn't seem to have a comfortable sexual history with anyone and she will suck her mother's finger for a slab of icing from a cake. When Portman believes she had sex with Mila Kunis, she finds out she was mistaken, but who did she fantasize with? Was it a mere dream? Evidence suggests it could have been sex with her mother because the piece of wood she used to keep her door shut was removed when Portman woke up and rushed out. There had to have been someone there for it to have moved like it did. Her mother looked sullen when she was leaving, but she could have been looking that way for a host of reasons. Either way, the enclosed world between her and her mother is everywhere in the film. The possibilities of deeper issues and things are flavors for a visceral take on a general taboo story.
For me, the visual identity of the film allows the story to be told in this way. The story becomes a little more superficial when it fully nods to these incest factors. Polanski is a genius to me, but I don't think he had the full filmmaking resources and imagination to tunnel an incest horror element in this kind of realistic fashion. He always had his horror stories be about elements of human pain and taboo topics under the surface in some way, but he doesn't realize it like this. Black Swan displays the story in an experience-like manner. Polanski was a little more traditional in having formal nods to genre and what not. Aronofsky has a good development of the genre here. I think it's fully deserving of the consideration it is getting.
I also feel a little weird being boastful of the film since I have been one of his biggest critics, but here he merges a great filmmaking platform with a perfect level of simplicity.
spoils again
I don't see it like a theatre of death. It's a theatre of birth. I prefer the ending as it is to what you are suggesting. The closed conclusion you are envisioning here goes completely against the nightmarish "am I losing my mind?" aesthetic the film had, and I would even say that showing her being "normal" is irrelevant to the story. When I mention the word "birth" is because what we witness is the birth of Nina as a true artist, as a vessel for real art. An artistic masterpiece (as the film implies she is creating with her dancing at the end) doesn't die, on the contrary it's a constant flow of life. The film has the bittersweet ending of Nina "dying", giving herself to the artistic work. I know is nothing new, but damn it was moving and perfectly executed. What in the whole of all this crazy movie makes you so sure this is an actual, literal death? However, I don't know how could you foresee the sex scene, or the way the final sequence was going to unfold.
I also noticed what GT mentions, which was a weird topic the film kept coming back to.
About The Wrestler, I was always disappointed about how predictable it became after the first half, so I guess we are all crazy
What fucks it up for me:
Spoils
Too many things are there to make the viewer feel crazy, but not nessesarily the character... if you take Mila Kunis out of the whole fight scene in the dressing room, its just stupid/ theres also the part where shes practising alone, and with her back turned to the mirror, then we see her reflection turn around to stare at her, but before she could react, lights go out. So that means that really happend, she didn't even react it, nor realize it, there was no one else there who halluciated it, it was just there for us, the viewer... it not like fight club, or usual suspects, where i could go back with a second viewing and see all the pieces fall into place, its just a series of really well put together creepy momments, but creepy for our sakes, not always the stories sake. sometimes yeah, but not always. its cheating. it the same as a jump scare. do i am making sense? besides the fact im drunk i dont think i have the biggest vocabulary to get my point across. respond
spoils
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on February 06, 2011, 01:31:03 AMThe visual visceral aspect of the film helps to extend out to a possible incest theme within the story. It has to do with Portman and her mother.
Since Portman's character is delusional and the camera feeds through her psyche, a moving storyline within the film is the possible incest with her mother. They interact in weird ways where Portman doesn't seem to have a comfortable sexual history with anyone and she will suck her mother's finger for a slab of icing from a cake. When Portman believes she had sex with Mila Kunis, she finds out she was mistaken, but who did she fantasize with? Was it a mere dream? Evidence suggests it could have been sex with her mother because the piece of wood she used to keep her door shut was removed when Portman woke up and rushed out. There had to have been someone there for it to have moved like it did. Her mother looked sullen when she was leaving, but she could have been looking that way for a host of reasons. Either way, the enclosed world between her and her mother is everywhere in the film. The possibilities of deeper issues and things are flavors for a visceral take on a general taboo story.
this reminds me of another thing i disliked: the sheer amount of missed opportunities to expand the character. i like your theory, but it's basically unexplored within the movie. yes she's crazily sexually repressed, but WHY?? why does it have to be such a big secret?? the masturbation scene was one of the most intriguing, like she'd never done it before, but that whole virginal undercurrent is left hanging in the wind. so much is left as a giant question mark. and i think the movie takes pride in leaving these questions so underdeveloped. i'm all for ambiguity but not when it's less interesting than going deeper.
i'd reiterate the lack of humour too. nina neeeeds to be laughed at, parodied etc. for her ridiculousness, but the movie never takes advantage and stays almost 100% self-serious.
alexandro-
i don't think there's any ambiguity about her actually dying.
you raise a good point about the wrestler. and tragedies in general. why does predictability work for some things and not others? it probably has to do with the richness of the characters and their flaws. nina is flat and intentionally vague as a character. rourke is actively trying to change his life throughout the film but can't escape the only thing he knows how to do.. his personality is hardwired into a lost time. maybe it's the character's level of active thought. i don't think nina is a particularly smart or self-aware character. (i have to go into shakespeare land right now cause i'm getting immersed in this stuff at school) you can write books about hamlet because his character is so expansive and philosophically detailed, and he tries and fails repeatedly at a clear goal established early in the play, but you watch because he's so effing compelling, smart, witty etc... how can such a keenly intelligent character fail so hard? we know what will happen in romeo + juliet within a minute. it's spoken aloud. but there's always that lingering possibility that maybe one chain in the elaborate sequence of tragedy won't happen this time... there's always a flicker of hope because it's such a pure expression of love that we
need to believe it'll be different this time. black swan is about ignorance of the self, repression on many levels etc. which can be a rich subject, but it's like a children's drawing of that. it's bright, colourful, weird, but flat as paper.
Quote from: picolas on February 06, 2011, 05:17:06 PM
this reminds me of another thing i disliked: the sheer amount of missed opportunities to expand the character. i like your theory, but it's basically unexplored within the movie. yes she's crazily sexually repressed, but WHY?? why does it have to be such a big secret?? the masturbation scene was one of the most intriguing, like she'd never done it before, but that whole virginal undercurrent is left hanging in the wind. so much is left as a giant question mark. and i think the movie takes pride in leaving these questions so underdeveloped. i'm all for ambiguity but not when it's less interesting than going deeper.
We are quickly going to get to a territory where it's agree to disagree because I know there are some movies where I'm feeling the same way as you are and I feel my complaints about it not doing enough are justified.
For me, the reason why I don't think it could have gone further is because it wanted to be a tight thriller like that. Like Vincent Cassel says when he is talking about with what he wants with Swan Lake, a "stripped down, raw" show. The film focuses on a style and structure before anything else. It wants to elude to all of its themes with production details in the film. It reminds me of how Stanley Kubrick approached things in the later part of his career. He disregards the obvious methods to extend the story out and hid all the major theme indicators within small production details within the film. Some people may believe he does enough because compared to a film like Black Swan, there is more story in all of his films. However, I think those films are oriented in trying to be visceral experiences where you start to see the themes bleed out afterward in small pockets of the story. The films never do fulfill in full discussion of the themes because they are just alluded to in obscure ways.
Still, no big deal with just disagreeing. I would like to continue the conversation further because I think there are more production details within the film that point to the themes I was talking about, but it's an ongoing discussion.
SPOILERS
Quote from: picolas on February 06, 2011, 05:17:06 PM
this reminds me of another thing i disliked: the sheer amount of missed opportunities to expand the character. i like your theory, but it's basically unexplored within the movie. yes she's crazily sexually repressed, but WHY?? why does it have to be such a big secret?? the masturbation scene was one of the most intriguing, like she'd never done it before, but that whole virginal undercurrent is left hanging in the wind. so much is left as a giant question mark. and i think the movie takes pride in leaving these questions so underdeveloped. i'm all for ambiguity but not when it's less interesting than going deeper.
Nina's mother has been keeping her under her thumb forever. She wants Nina to be her little daughter forever. Even her room looks like a child's room. I think the idea was that her blossoming as an artist would come with her maturing as a person.
I saw this forever ago but haven't written anything about it until now. I admired aspects of the film more than I liked the film as a whole. The treatment was so archetypal and surface level that I felt like I got everything I needed to out of my first viewing of it, and that there wasn't much a second viewing could reveal to me. I guess that's what melodrama is. Immediately recognizable themes, story arcs, and character types. I'm fine with melodrama, but for the most part I was distant from the film. I totally recognized aspects of Nina in myself and people I know, and yet I felt disconnected from the film. Melodrama should carry the audience along for the ride before they're aware of how all the elements are falling into place.
Quote from: picolas on February 05, 2011, 11:15:33 PM
it just kinda unfolds exactly how you think it will.
"why" she's sexually repressed?
I didn't care and the movie's missed nothing by not giving it a clear answer.
by all means, gt. i want to know what other clues you're finding. we're definitely getting into super subjective territory. how much stuff do we need to feel satisfied with a movie? there's no technical answer.. it just happens or it doesn't. i think the reason why it doesn't for me is because nina doesn't feel like a complete character.
pete, i cared. i don't need an encyclopedic backstory, just more than what i saw. i recognize there are tons of brilliant characters that are never given any kind of context. i mentioned that in my first review. an explanation for where anton chigurh came from would mess him up. darth vader etc... so, alright.. maybe i didn't need an explanation from the past. maybe i just needed nina to be more interesting in the present. i pretty much always felt one step ahead of her.
I thought the mother was pretty much the only semi-good character in the movie. Good as in means well. The rest of the characters are just slimy, awful people. I think Nina's problems started WAY before the movie begins. Her mother seemed to be the only one who could keep her in check and when she lands the big role, it's too much, Nina can't handle it. Most everything was in Nina's mind because she's a headcase so I came to the conclusion that most of the mother issues were as well.
I think what's important is that the film never hides it's campy intentions or it's archetypes, and what the filmmakers are able to do with them.
I don't know about the backstory issues you have. Never bothered me, in fact I like that we don't get any. But I would never connect Nina to a character like Chigurgh in a million years. Plainview maybe, granted that it's way more richer as a character than Nina was ever intended to be. The real character work comes from Portman and how she breathes life into this non-person. I gues subsequent viewings will make all of us appreciate her work here more.
I also don't understand why she needs to be mocked beyond the obvious. Everyone pretty much mocks her any chance they get, even her mother unintentionally. What the film does wonderfully is make you feel her insecurity and awkwardness about it. She doesn't take it lightly, so why should we?
Anyway, I think just this discussion between you, GT, me and all the others is starting to reveal that there are enough interpretations for everything in the movie and that makes it rewatchable and I would say a little more rich than just a simplistic thriller.
BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR!
end of discussion.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn03.cdn.thesuperficial.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F02%2F0217-darren-aronofsky-17-480x720.jpg&hash=2bca257fdeff4df45b1ed975d894b443a13c8c49)
Scarfie strikes again!!
He's just trolling us now.
We need a Darren Aronofsky w/scarf bobblehead on the main page by the Xixax Feature sign. It's been a while since we added something like that for a temporary period of time.
Quote from: Gold Trumpet on February 17, 2011, 04:29:52 PM
We need a Darren Aronofsky w/scarf bobblehead on the main page by the Xixax Feature sign. It's been a while since we added something like that for a temporary period of time.
Between this and the drunkpostathon idea yesterday, we might be entering a golden age!!
Quote from: picolas on February 05, 2011, 11:15:33 PM
spoils
i'm stunned by how overrated this insanely predictable movie has become. where was this adoring general public when the wrestler happened?
i love you picolas.
i couldn't believe how disrespectfully predictable it was, how similar it was to the wrestler, and how unappealing ballet still is to me.
still, i've never cared about wrestling but the wrestler made that world interesting.
if this had been a shyamalan movie, we would all be in awe, i think. i can't be blamed for expecting way more from a director who's made versatility his trademark.
I see entirely the opposite. the wrestler was the predictable one (maybe the trailer had something to do with it) and this, while not exactly strong in the plot department, was much more immersive and beautifully shot.
Quote from: pete on February 22, 2011, 01:50:05 AM
I see entirely the opposite. the wrestler was the predictable one (maybe the trailer had something to do with it) and this, while not exactly strong in the plot department, was much more immersive and beautifully shot.
^ For serious. Plus, I just don't get the accusations of 'predictability' or 'obviousness' when we're talking about this movie - it seems to me that the film doesn't try to be anything else than powerfully blatant in virtually all aspects. Allow me to repost something I wrote elsewhere (http://www.alternatetakes.co.uk/?2011,2,235):
(
Spoils, though I doubt anyone who hadn't seen the film would want to read this anyway...)
By and large, people who dislike this film seem to think that it takes itself more seriously than it should - that is, they believe it sees itself as 'art' rather than a simple, melodramatic, slightly sleazy genre picture. Those who love it, on the other hand, tend to appreciate it either precisely because it revels in 'lowbrow' pleasures, or because the fact that it's so hysterically camped-up means it avoids attempting an entirely straight face. I count myself a member of the latter group, albeit with a few caveats.
A little like Blue Valentine (2010), it seems to me that elements of this film's style and context can lure us into expecting something that the film ultimately isn't interested in delivering. Aronofsky's status as an indie auteur, the high art milieu of ballet, the classical score - all these things can encourage the feeling that the movie is itself aiming to be something of an arthouse picture.
In one way, this sense is increased by all the symbolism on show in the sets, costume, and plot. But let's look at what kind of symbolism this is exactly. Most ostentatiously, there are mirrors everywhere in this movie: they make dramatic sense in the ballet school, but Nina and her mother's apartment also seems festooned with them. There's the fact that Nina constantly wears white even outside rehearsals, while the ironically-named Lily wears black. Indeed, Nina even wears a feathery white scarf. There are the excess of toys in Nina's room, the swan that sits by her bath, her ringtone being a piece from Swan Lake, the black dragon-like wings on Lily's back and the fact that Nina keeps scratching in the same spot on her shoulders, the overall interest in doppelgangers, and so on and so forth.
If all these things were intended to be clever - things that an astute viewer could applaud themselves for picking up on - then this would be a hilariously obvious arthouse movie. L. A. Times critic Kenneth Turan is one who has complained about unsubtlety, adding contemptuously that "expecting subtlety from a Darren Aronofsky film is like expecting Pixar to announce a slasher movie". This entirely misses the point, however, that a lack of subtlety is exactly what this film requires, and strives for. This is because this isn't a work of "high-art trash", as Turan calls it, but rather what we might choose to call a 'trashy' movie that just happens to take place in the world of high art, and is made by an auteur.
Every single one of Black Swan's themes is not so much developed or hinted at, as might happen in an arthouse movie, but explicitly stated, repeated, and insisted upon. It quickly becomes clear that, for example, the mirrors are not being used as a visual motif that symbolically suggest split personality, but rather as devices that openly express that split personality: Nina's mirror-image becomes detached from her own, and she eventually uses a shard of mirror to stab Lily. The central themes of duality and the pursuit of artistic perfection are not things we are expected to somehow work out, but things we are told about: within the first twenty minutes Thomas has laid out the hardly complicated white/black swan dichotomy, and Nina has said that she just wants to be "perfect". The remainder of the film proceeds to work through these themes brazenly, using the plot of the ballet as a guide (which, again, is helpfully synopsized for us in the opening), until they lead to the movie's wholly unavoidable conclusion. So much for subtlety.
To criticize the movie for being obvious or lacking depth, though, is to ignore the fact that the very obviousness of all the symbolism is wholly fitting for Black Swan, which never hopes to be anything other than an archetypal story combined out of various different genres: fairytale, horror, melodrama, and so on. All these types of stories contain symbolism, but it is symbolism of a particular kind - a direct, visceral sort of symbolism which the reader or viewer could never be expected to struggle to see, but is instead offered to us fully-formed: the link between sex and death offered by vampires, say. It is only possible to accuse this film of being shallow if you hope that it will convey something 'deep', and by this we usually mean something that is not immediately obvious - something a viewer can pat themselves on the back for discovering.
David Lynch, say, may invoke horror or film noir, but he isn't finally making movies in these genres - he makes arthouse films which use genres. Their symbolism is thus made diffuse, ambiguous, and thus easily understood as 'art'. Aronofsky's film, on the other hand, doesn't just employ genres - it embodies them, and its style of symbolism is thus horror film or fairytale symbolism, which are altogether different prospects. Neither approach is better or worse than the other, but it is important to gauge which we are dealing with, or we may end up looking at a film through the wrong lens. A measure of just how to-the-point Black Swan is interested in being is that its end credits list Portman's role as Nina/White Swan, and Kunis' as Lily/Black swan. This is a film entirely unconcerned with ambiguity.
A more appropriate comparison for the movie might be something like the excellent little 2007 horror flick, Teeth, which is about a young, abstinent teenage Christian girl who discovers she possess vagina dentata; gory sex scenes ensue. There is nothing subtle about this: we don't interpret a metaphor, but rather see it played out - openly and powerfully. Black Swan works on similar levels. Its concerns are uncomplicatedly primitive, and its means of conveying them are thus similarly unadorned. Sexual repression is expressed in Nina's white costumes and piles of toys; the need to become both the extremes demanded by Thomas is literalised in Lily actually becoming Nina; the sick emphasis placed on physical beauty is played out in multiple scenes of applying make-up and Beth stabbing herself in the face; and, of course, there is the basic fact that Nina doesn't just transform herself figuratively, but via actual metamorphosis.
As with any film, this movie's achievement lies not in its meanings but in the way it makes its meanings. Black Swan does what it sets out to do extremely well. Some clearly wished that it had attempted something different and judged it a failure on these terms. Others have recognized the simplicity of the film's basic elements but still suggested that it somehow manages to exceed them: for instance, Manohla Dargis speaks in the New York Times of "those clichés, which Aronofsky embraces, exploits and, by a squeak, finally transcends". Yet there is no need to transcend a cliché if it is conveyed with such impressive force.
At bottom, this is exactly what it seems: a blunt and beautiful story of a woman pushed to insanity by unrealistic and dangerous demands: to be both a 'perfect' artist and, in the process, the 'perfect' embodiment of an age-old virgin/whore dichotomy. That is all, and it's more than enough. Neither original nor complicated in conception, this project is executed in practice with a power and flare that is no less valuable for being direct. To ask for anything else is to desire to watch a different kind of movie.
Quote from: pete on February 22, 2011, 01:50:05 AM
I see entirely the opposite. the wrestler was the predictable one (maybe the trailer had something to do with it) and this, while not exactly strong in the plot department, was much more immersive and beautifully shot.
exactly.
the public is reacting because they care about nina, they get immersed because it feels like is life or death for her from the beginning. for the most part the audiences have been forgiving with the most ludicrous aspects of the third act here because in the end, it's exciting, and movies these days tend to be not only predictable but boring.
i just don't buy that any of you guys saw on a scene by scene basis how black swan was going to end.
SPOILS
So you knew she was going to die and after the show and that's predictable? I suppose that knowing this would prevent anyone from enjoying the film, obviously!
You knew she was going to turn literally into a swan? That Winona was be all crazy and shit in her last scene? That Nina was going to "kill" Mila Kunis and then find out it was herself?
Sure.
END OF SPOILS
the wrestler was very predictable from the start, and in that case, I could foresee every single moment of how it was going to develop after a certain point, and it lost and lost steam as it got close to the predictable ending. the wrestler is nothing compared to this. sorry.
Bah... I don't care about the predictability of either of these movies. I just feel that the simplicity of the Wrestler's script is more appealing and I actually felt something for the characters. Meanwhile, Black Swan was more beautifully shot, for certain, but when I can't give a shit about the characters, I don't have much of a desire to come back.
The world noticed 2 months after Stefen did (http://xixax.com/index.php?topic=9447.msg299071#msg299071). Today I'm proud of Xixax.
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/02/darren_aronofskys_scarves.html
http://twitter.com/devincf/status/41707658293678080
We're always ahead of the curve here. Go us.
Quote from: Stefen on February 28, 2011, 05:46:58 PM
We're always ahead of the curve here. Go us.
Don't you mean "we're always ahead of the...scarf?"