So tonight I showed the 400 Blows at my school. I started this club called film team, and the idea is to expose kids to great movies that they'd probably never see--mainly classic foreign movies. 400 blows was the first one we showed. next week is la strada (my personal favorite of fellini)
we projected the criterion version and it looked great. kids that i would have never thought really liked it.
sounds cool, (the name needs some work though). what was the turnout like?
i seriously thought about trying to start something like this at MTSU, but never got around to it.
my first film would have been Vertigo, as it is my favorite film.
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 08, 2005, 08:18:07 PM
So tonight I showed the 400 Blows at my school. I started this club called film team, and the idea is to expose kids to great movies that they'd probably never see--mainly classic foreign movies. 400 blows was the first one we showed. next week is la strada (my personal favorite of fellini)
we projected the criterion version and it looked great. kids that i would have never thought really liked it.
very cool, but try to make the next one a colour film.
Quote from: Pubrick on December 08, 2005, 11:22:38 PM
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 08, 2005, 08:18:07 PM
So tonight I showed the 400 Blows at my school. I started this club called film team, and the idea is to expose kids to great movies that they'd probably never see--mainly classic foreign movies. 400 blows was the first one we showed. next week is la strada (my personal favorite of fellini)
we projected the criterion version and it looked great. kids that i would have never thought really liked it.
very cool, but try to make the next one a colour film.
why's that
what age group is this for?
if college, The Graduate, may be a good choice.
too, i don't know if you're allowed to show R rated movies or if they're are any stipulations as far as content.
if high school w/no stipulations, Rushmore may be a good one.
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 09, 2005, 03:27:01 PM
Quote from: Pubrick on December 08, 2005, 11:22:38 PM
very cool, but try to make the next one a colour film.
why's that
for variation. there's plenty of good colour foreign films. you said so yourself that you were surprised the other kids liked the 400 blows, and next your playing La Strada.. why push your luck? give them the pretentiousness of foreign film with the spectacle of colour once in a while and the numbers won't dwindle.
Quote from: bigideas on December 09, 2005, 10:01:51 PM
if college, The Graduate, may be a good choice.
if high school w/no stipulations, Rushmore may be a good one.
he said "mainly classic foreign movies."
Quote from: Pubrick on December 12, 2005, 09:41:24 PM
Quote from: bigideas on December 09, 2005, 10:01:51 PM
if college, The Graduate, may be a good choice.
if high school w/no stipulations, Rushmore may be a good one.
he said "mainly classic foreign movies."
not to mention that a movie like rushmore is what i'm trying to move away from. kids think if they know wes anderson, they know good directors. they think if they've seen pulp fiction, they've seen an old movie, a classic.
don't get me wrong, i love rushmore (the only wes anderson film i love), but a lot of these kids have seen wes anderson.
so take a movie that these kids know/love and trace its roots/inspirations backwards showing movies made 30 or 50 years before that were doing some of the same things these kids thought were new. it'll blow minds.
well what our idea is is for the first few movies we're gonna kind tour around the world and teach the kiddies that movies can be art.
week 1--france, 400 blows
2 -- italy, la strada
3 -- sweden, some bergman
4 -- japan, some kurosowa
5 -- germany, metropolis (this is like a double whammy)
etc.
at first we just wanna expose these kids to the foreign classics. i already had a couple kids who would have never thought of watching a foreign movie (because the subtitles make it hard to follow) said that they're now gonna go out and rent other truffaut. kids genuinely appreciated it. i'm not gonna lie though, a couple kids laughed at the end of 400 blows. but they were kids who took french class and were only there cause they're french teacher was offering extra credit. i had to explain my interpretation of what the ending "meant" to a few kids as well.
400 blows is the perfect transition movie. not too much talking. not too dense. and it's just really warm and hard to hate.
modage, for a bunch of kids that like wes anderson, what would you recomend.
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 13, 2005, 08:44:06 PM
the kiddies
these kids
a couple kids
kids
a couple kids
but they were kids
a few kids
a bunch of kids
aren't they the same age as you? i called them kids because i can.
and at least play Fanny and Alexander when doing bergman.
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 13, 2005, 08:44:06 PM
the kiddies peeries
these kids peers
a couple kids peers
kids peers
a couple kids peers
but they were kids peers
a few kids peers
a bunch of kids peers
fixed
I'd go with some Hal Ashby (Harold and Maude) or possibly Polanski cause there are plenty of 20ish year olds who have never seen
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I think it might be easier to break them in with some American classics.
i'm not mod, but since you said "mostly" foreign films, when you get done with the foreign only kick The Graduate would be perfect for people that like Wes Anderson since WA admitted he feels like he's ripping it off all the time.
Fucking Herzog man. It's your duty.
Also, split, right?
try To Live. not too old, but feels old, and it is a great and often overlooked movie. I saw it in 7th grade and loved it, so I'm sure your peers can sit through it too. It is probably the most soulful movie of the 20th century.
We have a couple of clubs like that here in oklahoma (as weird as that sounds)...one is called unseen cinema that shows about 4 or 5 movies a semester and another group called the Claude Raines Appreciation Society (CRAS)...CRAS shows mostly obscure films that they praise because of their enormous camp value or other such reasons...(they played All American Murder..a film made in the 80s that just happens to feature Christopher Walken and was shot on our campus)..but the unseen cinema is great..I had already seen OLDBOY but that was the first one they showed this semester and seeing it on the big screen was fantastic...Unseen Cinema has also showed some greats like A Knife in the Water, Gun Crazy (AkA Deadly is the Female), Osama, Hyenas, and most recently Errol Morris's Gates of Heaven (which i enjoyed immensely)...both of the programs are great because i can't tell you all how ignorant most okies are when it comes to film (except of course for FilmStudent and RegularKarate)...and i'm happy to say i'm partially responsible for the playing of OLDBOY...next semester i suggested Downfall...hopefully they'll play it
camp value...kids need to chill out with the whole camp value craze. I mean, the whole thing got old in the late 90s when UPS was making campy ads. what's wrong with just liking a bad movie? why do kids these days feel the need to be snide in order to show that they're having a good time in public?
i'm not a member of CRAS..mostly cause the kids are pretentious douches
A good intro to Bergman is Wild Strawberries. Persona is too complex to start with.
Bresson's Au Hazard Balthasar is good because it's mostly visual.
Godard's Weekend, or My Life to Live.
Battleship Potemkin.
Umberto D.
Rules of the Game.
Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.
Shadows.
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 08, 2005, 08:18:07 PM
So tonight I showed the 400 Blows at my school. I started this club called film team, and the idea is to expose kids to great movies that they'd probably never see--mainly classic foreign movies. 400 blows was the first one we showed. next week is la strada (my personal favorite of fellini)
we projected the criterion version and it looked great. kids that i would have never thought really liked it.
good luck.......but please change the name....film team sounds so...well, you know :yabbse-grin:
I don't know if I'd choose to show Metropolis or not. Silent films have a bad name, really, among those who never watch them. When one says "silent film" they think of Vaudeville or over acting and silly speeded up film. Metropolis garnered a few laughs when shown in my Modern Art class, it's good for the sheer spectacle, but I think it has some of those issues I've mentioned.
I remember The Passion of Joan of Arc changed the way I thought of Silent films. It's beautiful and moving (especially with "Voices of Light") and has totally stood up over time.
And it's foreign. :wink:
Quote from: soixante on December 15, 2005, 02:49:05 AM
Rules of the Game.
Deffinitely. :yabbse-thumbup:
I picked Wild Strawberries because that was the first Bergman film I ever saw. I saw it when I was in high school, and I felt like I could basically grasp what was going on. I saw Persona in my 20's, and I don't think I understood it at all.
Umberto D is good because it is rather simple -- an older man tries to find his dog. It is really about the daily routine of an old man, and the isolation brought on by age.
Battleship Potemkin shows that the quick cutting style wasn't invented by MTV.
Ken Russell's Tommy would be good just for weirdness. Nic Roeg's Performance is pretty out there, although it might be unsuitable for high school kids, what with all the nudity and drug use. However, there is a great scene in which a Rolls Royce is coated with carbolic acid.
Quote from: pyramid machine on December 15, 2005, 07:35:15 AM
Quote from: JimmyGator on December 08, 2005, 08:18:07 PM
So tonight I showed the 400 Blows at my school. I started this club called film team, and the idea is to expose kids to great movies that they'd probably never see--mainly classic foreign movies. 400 blows was the first one we showed. next week is la strada (my personal favorite of fellini)
we projected the criterion version and it looked great. kids that i would have never thought really liked it.
good luck.......but please change the name....film team sounds so...well, you know :yabbse-grin:
Film team isn't my idea. I had it just as foreign film club but the kid that helped me start thought it would be funny.
he has a horrible sense of humor. "the" is funny. make it "THE film team" and he'll pee his pants and explode from laughter.
Show an Alan Clarke film if you get the chance. Made in Britain, preferably.
^^ definitly.....show as much cassavetes, herzog, clarke, peckinpah, godard, bresson, dreyer, fassbinder, chaplin, keaton, murnau, kazan, fuller, bergman etc that u can....
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but not dune
but after the ones i listed! cuz i listed first! and theyre all better (nothin against him)!
so we finally got around to showing our third movie a week or two ago and (against my will) we showed seventh seal. no one liked it. and it's not like it's even a movie that i love. i could think of plenty of bergman that i would show before it but the club advisor suggested this one. but it's a hard movie for a bunch of high school kids to enjoy.
and the numbers have dwindled, so for next one it's gotta be big. my club advisor is thinking rashomon, and i say no. first of all, if we're showing kurosawa, i want to to be the best/my favorite. second of all, kids are even less likely to come to a movie from any place in asia.
now, we do wanna keep with theme of one movie per country for a lil while longer.
i'm a strong advocate of city of god because i think everyone will like it, but it's not exactly a "classic" yet. i mean to me it is but not world renowned. so we've already done italy (which i regret showing la strada because it is no longer my favorite fellini (and because i think everyone should see 8 1/2 as many times posssible), we've done france, and sweden (think it woulda been cool to show scenes from a marriage?)...thoughts on what i should know next?
Quote from: JimmyGator on March 18, 2006, 11:44:31 PM
and the numbers have dwindled, so for next one it's gotta be big. my club advisor is thinking rashomon, and i say no. first of all, if we're showing kurosawa, i want to to be the best/my favorite. second of all, kids are even less likely to come to a movie from any place in asia.
Rashomon would be interesting to show people that non-linear cinema has been around since before Memento or Pulp Fiction. Yojimbo would be pretty accessible. You could make cool flyers with samurai on them.
Surely there are people at your school interested in anime or Asian action films.
Quote from: JimmyGator on March 18, 2006, 11:44:31 PM
(think it woulda been cool to show scenes from a marriage?)...
so you think the "kids" won't watch rashomon because it's asian (wtf?), but you think they'd give a shit about a married couple discussing their relationship for 3 hours? answer this question in morse code using a shoe against your head.
This club sucks.
EDIT: Erased a bunch of modern suggestions after reading the whole thread, and realizing that you're going for classic foreign only.
-----------------
Scenes from a Marriage would have been better. You would have had to work hard to convince people to see a 3 hours Swedish movie, yes, but that movie draws everybody in within the first 20 minutes. Hell, I saw the 5 hours version and it flew by. Fanny and Alexander is a popular choice as well. Ain't nobody would've walked away not loving either movie.
IF you're attracting "kids" who wouldn't come to any Asian movie, then this club is a lost cause. Asian is the most popular of foreign films, probably, so if they don't like that, they won't like anything with subtitles. If they wouldn't like Rashomon, then they really wouldn't like any classic foreign movies, it sounds. If that really is the case, then just go with the more City of God kind of "cool movie" that you could argue would be a classic in your mind, as you were thinking. You're gonna have to do crowd-pleasers if you want the crowds...
That's why running movie clubs suck, man. They'll only serve to erode your probably already-dwindling faith in humanity. We have some movie clubs here, too. The only ones that attract more than a couple of people show cult movies--anything that's better to see with your pals versus watching it alone. I think maybe you're picking movies that are better to see alone.
The club needs an Almodóvar. I vote Live Flesh. Oh fuck high school huh. The club needs Basquiat. Oh fuck is it only foreign. If the focus of the club is something a bit broader than The Usual Titles, the club needs Youth of the Beast.
Quote from: Pubrick on March 19, 2006, 01:09:28 AM
Quote from: JimmyGator on March 18, 2006, 11:44:31 PM
(think it woulda been cool to show scenes from a marriage?)...
so you think the "kids" won't watch rashomon because it's asian (wtf?), but you think they'd give a shit about a married couple discussing their relationship for 3 hours? answer this question in morse code using a shoe against your head.
first of all, i'm not being condescending with the kids things, that's just how we talk around here. sorry about that. second of all, the reason i'm wary about showing rashomon is that asian culture is so different from ours, i think it will be harder for them to enjoy. knowing some of them, they'll be confused and put off by stuff like the girl's eyebrows. some of them thought seventh seal was "wierd" cause they have a funny language. based on the their reactions to this point, i think the bigger the culture barrier the harder it is to relate.
but then again, they didn't understand what was going on in La Strada, so I think this club is a little doomed to begin with.
and the reason why i think scene's from a marriage would've been better than seventh seal cause it's more on the surface and more engaging, if you ask me. the only problem is the length.
Quote from: Ravi on March 19, 2006, 01:00:18 AM
Surely there are people at your school interested in anime or Asian action films.
Some kid I know actually started an anime club, but there's only like two kids in that. Again, I think I could do a Kurosawa, but I just don't think Rashomon is the most accesible.
Quote from: Bethie on March 19, 2006, 01:36:05 AM
This club sucks.
Yes, yes it does.
Thanks for the help guys.
the problem is you've started with too many difficult films. if you're selling these kids on this idea that old (foreign) movies are cool you need to ease them into it with stuff you know they will like for one reason or another. even if it isnt your favorite, because you can save those for later. also: i'm not sure if there's any discussion but it always helps to have a context for every one of these. before you watch the film explain a little about the circumstances in which the film was made, its reaction when it was released and any other little tidbits people might find interesting. even help to 'prepare' (without spoiling) them for a film like 8 1/2 or something by saying 'theres not really much of a story here, its about a director who is having trouble making his next film, but its more about taking away a feeling.' and just that little warning might help put people in the right mindset to take in something different. after the film you can go a little more in depth to draw parallels to more current films that you know people like and see if they notice where those films were influenced. also try to explain for people who may not get it just WHY this film is considered so great. and you should break it up with american films. theres plenty of old american movies they might not have seen and it'll help the foriegn ones out more when they're sprinkled in instead of forced down throats. i mean how many of these kids have seen 2001? try to make it fun for everybody.
Who wants to joins mod's club?
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The first rule of Film Club is you do not talk during the movie.
The second rule of Film Club is you DO NOT Talk During The Movie.
I do give an opening before the movie and try and set up the movie in terms of historical context and why it's considered essential. So far the theme seems to be famous director's first great movie (i think seventh seal is considered bergman's first great one, no?). i thought la strada was easier than other fellini, and at the time it was my favorite fellini. 400 blows was clearly the right choice, especially considering the response. and i think we blew it with seventh seal, but that wasn't really my choice.
i agree mod, i think a few american movies that most probably haven't seen would be good: 2001, maybe a lynch movie. way more are automatically likely to come. mod, what foreign films would you consider more accesible?
Is there any way you could organize field-trips to movies now playing - or local film forums playing classics - during the school-day?
Tips.
1. Get a teacher's support (obviously). Permission slips and paperwork the whole magilla. Sponsors. Make sure you emphasize the educational foundation of the project, butter these administrators up like a cob of corn, you just gotta.
2. Require post-movie essays, discussions, some other assignment. Somehow link the films in with the curricular subjects, like a historical film followed by an essay or project that could be submitted to History class for credit/extra-credit. That sorta thing.
Sorry to hear the club's goin' shitty.
Eh fuck it all, just show Pulp Fiction. :shock:
Quote from: MacGuffin on March 19, 2006, 10:32:25 AM
Who wants to joins mod's club?
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The first rule of Film Club is you do not talk during the movie.
The second rule of Film Club is you DO NOT Talk During The Movie.
Third rule of Film Club... somebody yells "stop," goes limp, taps out, the film is over.
Fourth rule, no shirts.
Quote from: polkablues on March 19, 2006, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: MacGuffin on March 19, 2006, 10:32:25 AMThe first rule of Film Club is you do not talk during the movie.
The second rule of Film Club is you DO NOT Talk During The Movie.
Third rule of Film Club... somebody yells "stop," goes limp, taps out, the film is over.
Fourth rule, no shirts.
Fifth rule, one film at a time, fellas.
Sixth rule, no cell phones.
Seventh rule, films will run as long as they have to.
And the eighth and final rule, if this is your first night at Film Club, you have to bring the popcorn.
haha, i'm in!
Quote from: Hedwig on March 19, 2006, 02:33:43 PM
Is there any way you could organize field-trips to movies now playing - or local film forums playing classics - during the school-day?
Tips.
1. Get a teacher's support (obviously). Permission slips and paperwork the whole magilla. Sponsors. Make sure you emphasize the educational foundation of the project, butter these administrators up like a cob of corn, you just gotta.
2. Require post-movie essays, discussions, some other assignment. Somehow link the films in with the curricular subjects, like a historical film followed by an essay or project that could be submitted to History class for credit/extra-credit. That sorta thing.
call me jaded (some smart ass: "jaded!") but i don't think these "kids" are worth so much effort. unless jimmygator is the next GT or Leonard Maltin (oh yes, in that order) i don't believe he has the chutzpah to carry out such a plan, nor do i think any of us would. as mod pointed out, he doesn't know how to reach his peers. clearly the pretentious foreign film approach is failing miserably. and the fact the club's constituents apparently wouldn't enjoy a movie like OLDBOY, or even the PG-rated Grave of the Fireflies, doesn't bode well for its future. a community made up of idiots (i think the eyebrow thing qualifies them as that), no matter how well moderated or how pure its intentions, will ultimately become a club FOR idiots. why do you think i discourage ignorance?
if modage has any suggestions of any "accessible" movies, i would advise JG to go for it. it's best to approach his problem from an educated unpretentious populist position than where he's coming from now. i mean, if member satisfaction is an issue.
400 Blows = :yabbse-thumbup:
Seventh Seal = :yabbse-thumbdown:
The 'kids' will like/love The Loves of a Blond
I've been in the middle of many film clubs, starting and running them.
Right now, I'm involved with two girls who are trying to get an Art Film club going for the entire university campus. They know nothing about foreign cinema but want to make a club that represents foreign and art cinema. They realize the one sponsored club for older films shows only selected films and usually they are just offbeat films.
So, they asked me to get involved. I immediately realized how limited they were in just procuring DVDs and picking titles. I had the girls in a few film classes so I already knew them. They immediately asked me about certain titles our professor mentioned like 'L'Avventura" and I said titles like that wouldn't be good idea. They didn't care. They wanted me to use those titles and others I picked out. I said "OK" but then realized we wouldn't be picking out the titles. They wanted everyone in the film classes to pick out what films were to be shown and for me to give plot synposises of all the films I listed so they had an easier time picking. I said that was insane because describing the plot of L'Avventura wouldn't be describing the film. They said people still would have a good idea and giving the people the freedom to choose would gurantee more people showing up. I still refused and because I am not committing myself to what they want, they just pick out titles every week to show like "Jackie Brown" and "His Girl Friday" and no one shows up.
See, I was already putting some work in for them before this. I had a friend create an amazing poster that was a collage of great art film covers and I was going to disperse it around the campus. I was talking to the local school paper about getting columns written and notices out about our film club. I was talking to professors who had digital cinema classes to procure their screening room for all the film showings. I was making myself available even to give introductions that I could have made really insightful. These girls said no to all my ideas. They wanted the showings to be in a classroom that had terrible sound and a shotty projection. They only wanted it because it was the room were all the film studies classes was and they wanted a certain professor to sign off on the class. I wanted people to show up and not sit in terrible seating. The screening room had perfect projection, stadium seating and lounge chairs. They still didn't care.
But, I'm picking this week's movie. I begged and pleaded with them to show "The Wild Bunch" and for me to give an introduction. I promised them I had 20 friends and associates showing up. I even have a journalist for the school paper going who is going to write a corresponding piece. The only thing I asked for is a 10 minute introduction. They said it had to be 5 minutes. They never heard of the film and I told them this type of film needed a proper introduction that explained the film's art so half the people weren't up in arms about the film's disturbing treatment of women. I especially thought of these two girls getting mad. They still said 5 minutes but fuck it, I'm procuring all the people to show up and I'll definitely go 10 minutes.
I think I now hate film clubs. I'm going to start one next semester and be in complete control. I at least know I will be able to make it successful.
"Film clubs" are the reason Xixax exists.
what would be the less pretentious, more appealing approach be? I suppose it'd be smart to show some American films intermittently, but the whole idea of the club was to introduce movies to seemingly intelligible kids that they normally wouldn't see. And, right, I guess there are many American/english-speaking films that fit that category, so i spose that could work.
also, let me say -- i don't think any asian movie won't work. i said that wrong. just rashomon specifically, because of the reasons i mentioned. does this sound like stupid reasoning? it might be. maybe i should show rashomon, but i am wary.
concerning hedwig's suggestion: pubrick is right, it's not worth it. not only would it not fly with the school, but not enough are interested. maybe 2 kids, tops. me included. and my advisor. if anything this club has caused me to be a little less faithful in humanity.
I'm in this class called "media literacy" where we dissect the media and anaylze art. this quarter we watched network, and then my teacher was open to suggestions. i suggested 8 1/2. the class has about 6 kids...two of them refused to watch it cause it was subtitled. we watched it anyway, but their minds were already made up. the other 3 that went into it with an open mind did love it. just to show you that i am working with some narrow-minded indivduals. psh, and they say the northeast is full of liberal thinkers.
...and if we're going to continue discussing this thread can we quit sarcastically quoting "kids" already? Sheesh, I know it seems like I'm being condescending, but I assure you -- I'm not. I do not have an elitist attitude, people i know would address their peers in the same manner.
i'm the vp of the film society at purchase... probably'll end up running it next year. i find that double-billing is a good strategy for getting attendance up (people might come for one and not so much for the other, but stay because they're already there), encouraging discussion sandwiched between films, and also just keeping people who like movies together for longer periods of time... all are positives.
also... indie theaters usually do group rates for film clubs. so (find out and) use that as a selling point for people to go on your field trips if you can.
Quote from: matt35mm on March 19, 2006, 02:26:27 AM
That's why running movie clubs suck, man. They'll only serve to erode your probably already-dwindling faith in humanity.
Quote from: JimmyGator on March 22, 2006, 08:49:11 PM
if anything this club has caused me to be a little less faithful in humanity.
Called it.
Quote from: JimmyGator on March 22, 2006, 08:49:11 PM
...and if we're going to continue discussing this thread can we quit sarcastically quoting "kids" already? Sheesh, I know it seems like I'm being condescending, but I assure you -- I'm not. I do not have an elitist attitude, people i know would address their peers in the same manner.
i wasn't being sarcastic.
The Epilogue
So we never did show Rashomon. We kept debating about showing other movies, kept postponing due to scheduling difficulties, & now there's only two weeks left in school. At the end of the year my amazingly cool advisor is leaving to teach at another school, the only three loyal followers i had, one of them being the owner of the sound system and DVD player we used, are going off to college. I could try and start it up again next year, but I don't think I have the determination or patience. So that's three movies total, one of which was a success. Certainly in retrospect, the last two we showed were a terrible idea. one day i'll start another film club (this time not called "film team") and i'll learn from this. can't be limited to foreign movies, , occasional a color film, and no level of airiness that i may have unintentionally conveyed.
one thing that sticks out in my mind from this whole experience is a conversation i had with a girl in my afore-mentioned media literacy class, which started out as a discussion about the idea of watching 8 1/2 in the class and branched into my film club. She didn't wanna watch 8 1/2 because she feels you "need to take baby steps first" or whatever that adage is. She had seen La Strada at my showing and didn't feel that she totally got it (side note: it seemed cause it was foreign people immediately assumed there was so much more to get). I told her that I don't think she gives herself enough credit.
Aside from La Strada and Seventh Seal, which were just plain bad choices, is it too much to ask to challenge people with their art? everyone who attended was smart and i just feel like they're not asking enough of themselves if they don't try and get a little more out of movies. or any form of art even. the last thing i want to be is the pretentious dick who walks around condescending to people who aren't as "cultured," y'know? Admittedly, and this is based in part on an obsessive review of all the posts I've made here, i have a tendency to talk as though i know better. its unintentional and i hope its not like this in the real world.
The "then" Jimmy Gator did so many things wrong. The "now" Jimmy Gator promises to do things different.
i liked that story. there's hope for you yet jimmygator. there's hope for you yet.