I was wondering what the filmmakers here were doing about the sound in their movies. I've gotten to the point where I want something more than the onboard mic of my camera but I dont think a £200-500 investment in a shotgun mic is worthwhile. This sort of price range seems to be what most sites are saying.
So what solutions are you using? Is a cheap and nasty microphone a noticeable improvement? Or is something like that only suitable for, say - minidisc recording voice overs/narration (syncing for on location recording too painful!)etc?
It definitely makes a difference. Good sound is just as important as good visuals (if not more).
I have an Audio Technica 815B shotgun. It ran me about 250 dollars, but that was three years ago, I'm sure there's something better available now. When I'm doing a more substantial project, I usually rent a Senheiser shotgun microphone and some lavalier mics as well (and a mixer, too).
But anyway, a shotgun mic is definitely a good investment.
Bad sound ruins a film - it's as simple as that. It's such a tell when you go to film festivals, a film can have these Fincher style visuals all day long but poor sound and it's jarring and cheap.
Spend the money get a mic, and even better is to purchase a inexpensive mixer and a portable mini-disc recorder and run your sound to both your camera and the mini-disc, all in all you can spend $500ish and your sound will be 200 times better.
Since you're most likely doing non-linear editing syncing the sound is not a problem.
Also invest in a cheap sound program $30 or so and you'll drastically improve your sound. I use Audio Cleaning Lab 3.0 and it is such a vast improvement. Some of the sound on my web series was awful (I learned all this from experience) and audio lab helps tremendously in cleaning, boosting, etc...
But definatly upgrade. It will make a HUGE difference.
I've added a page to my website on basic audio setups for DV filmmaking. Just click on the www button below and go the filmmaking section.
It just covers the basics, since I'm not really a sound expert, but it'll give you some ideas on how to improve your audio. I'll try to update it in the future with some post production techniques for cleaning audio.
Thanks for your tips GB and MA.
There's some useful stuff on your page, especially: "If you are shooting on DV, make sure you NEVER plug the camera into the wall; always use batteries. The ground current from a wall outlet will create a horrible hum in your audio."
Ive manged to find the mic you suggested for £199. Whats it like outside?
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electromusic.co.uk%2FShop%2Fmedia%2FAT815b.jpg&hash=77b220b9a0f7ccde741b593cfd138c7e20b3ad8a)
Im using the XM2 and it has pretty good controls for levels, attenuation and 16bit channel recording. And from plugging in some headphones into the mic socket it would appear that this disables the onboard mic.
What are the advantages of using mindisc for recording audio? Considering that I'm running a Robert Rodriguez style operation here, would the added complication of clapper boards etc. that minidisc would 'require' be an unrecommended hassle?
The true advantage of having the mini disc is the better control over the sound quality that you won't get off a DV tape, mini-disc or DAT are the way to go, however the important thing truly is the mic, and then build from that.
Also - when plugging the mic in to the camera, really watch the connection, the input jack on the camera can tend to loosen with camera or mic movement, and this causes pops or static and channel drop out, which is another plus to recording on seperate media, the ability to have the camera move independently of the microphone cord.
But truly, secure the mic cord into the camera, duct tape it so there's some slack that the camera doesn;t have to pick up.
Thanks again, Michael.
so how much should a PORTABLE DAT recorder run me? and what's the cheapest site to get one? and how do those work exactly? Does it use little cartridges?
Also, for lapel mics, can I use two at the same time at a cheap expense?
I already own mics and cords (i'm a musician) and have a digital 8-track with not enough memory. But I'm willing to spend a couple hundred for other things like lapel mics and Dat recorders.
Portable DAt recorders shouldn'r run more than a few hundred, you can also go with a portable Mini-Disc recorder with MUCh success and those are fairly inexpensive.
Lapel mic's are great, as long as you can buffer rustling noises etc... But they're a great source for the main conversations, but a shotgun mic is really the catch all mic you need for your basic vbideo/film shoot.
If you have a mixer, that can be key on set to have someone able to adjust levels and tones on the fly if you are using more than one mic at a time. Even a cheap mixer, spending 50-100 bucks for a two channel if you only use 2 mics'
What EXACTLY does a mixer do? Let you change the levels of sound for different shots so they sound the same?
I am interested in purchasing a inexpensive mic as well....all the mics listed in this post are still fairly expensive ($300-400)...ok..., i know this isn't expensive for a mic, but i'm not quite there yet. What are the best mics in say under $100 and under $200 price brackets?
Sorta on topic...but Sonic makes some decent software for audio...Sound Forge and/or Acid Pro are pretty niffty....specially if you are using Vegas to edit...
I have only used these a couple times, anyone (...cough, cough, Michael, cough) know more about these, or any good help sites?
kinda expensive though
I was wondering if anyone thinks that it' s good enough to just run the mic into the camera and then clean that up with something like "Sound Lab Forge Fixer Upper 4.0" because I don't have any money and that's what I'm looking to do.
I used an external mic plugged right into my camera and am using audio cleaning lab 3 to fix some awful probs it had, so yes, this is an option.
The thing to make sure of is that you wear headphones and really listen to the sound through the headphones and NOT what your hearing in front of you, because your mic will pick up tiny clicks, shuffles and whirs you won't otherwise notice.
Sound is key and tricky, and if you use a BOOM pole of some sort be sure it does not conduct sound or you muffle it, or your boom operator doesn't slide their hands on the pole or tap their fingers, because the mic will pick up every vibration.
Using a cleaning program after all is said and done will be key though.
Best of luck
Michael,
Assuming you're not just clicking a button on the cleaning program that reads, "Clean!" what are you doing specifically to the audio to improve it?
It depends on what happened during recording, but one major issue we had was that a connection loosened between the mic cord and the camera plug in, this was an internal cam thing, and we had one channel audio and dropping in and out.
So for that I have to take one channel turn it into stereo output, split to 2 channels.
After that the most common things I am having to do is use a DEHISSER to melow out room tone.
Also having to filter out small inconsitant sounds, background noise, etc by taking room tone and swaping it under some.
will most shotgun mic's plug and work fine in my Sony 950? i'm looking at the audio technica AT835b ...where do you buy these things reliably? best buy doesn't sell'em
You'll have to pick one up at a more pro-oriented store. A lot of music stores, like Guitar Center, will have them. Or you can order one from an online video equipment place, like B&H. As for your camera, they'll plug into anything with an XLR Jack. If your camera doesn't have one, you'll probably be able to get an adaptor for it. Check out Beachtek's website and you'll be able to find one.
No matter how much legwork it takes, always record your dialogue on a separate device from your camera. There's more to sound than dialogue. A good short will average 10 tracks of sound.
I recently completed a mini-DV short for $50, and we were able to record each sound in the film and foley it all together to create stereo sound. Final Cut 3 on up will give you decent sound controls.
http://www.movienavigator.org/3200.htm
i'm so lost..i was planning on buying a shotgun mic and plugging it into the camera to record the dialogue...i was then hoping to record background noise after (but i didn't really know with what)..and then add in music...what do i need here?
i'm already high on budget..
camera 1650
mic 250
premiere 599
aftereffects 799
Quote from: zerocool41i'm already high on budget..
camera 1650
mic 250
premiere 599
aftereffects 799
I don't know exactly what you are doing (filmwise), but do you really need After Effects?....I mean are you going to be doing a lot of special effects and stuff??? A way to maybe save money is to get Vegas Video instead....it's about the same price as premiere but allows you to do some of the basic things you would be using After Effects for. Just a thought.
Otherwise, I wouldn't sweat it....put your money into sound, picture, and story. If you have a good story, decent sound, and it's interesting to watch ....well, that's all you need.
Get rid of the fucking After Effects. You don't need it. You're overspending on everything. Find somebody with a student ID and you can get Final Cut Pro for $250. You can also get decent Sony mini-DV cameras for $300, that have great stabilization.
i was going to get after effects for the film-look thing they offer...
i'm getting the sony trv950 or whatever it's called...it's the best 3ccd camera i can afford. And i wanted a camera that i wouldn't want to be trading up from so quickly.
i need premiere because i'm a pc guy....no special effects really..after effects was just a maybe if i wasn't happy with the look of the picture.
as for sound, HELP!! will this shotgun mic cover me? i figure i can capture background noise on my camera and just use the audio track with other video. i've never done this, so i'm using my mind to its fullest.
First up, switch to Mac from PC. But that's another topic entirely.
Don't sweat it. You're not making 2001. Pick a place to start, then once you're comfortable with the tools and process you can start upgrading. Yeah, the mic will probably be fine. Forget After Effects. You're shooting on digital, it's gonna look digital. Doesn't matter. The story is what's important.
Recording on a DAT is nice, but don't worry too much about it. Just make sure you get really clean dialogue, and then go add all the ambience and whatever other sounds you need later. It'll be fine. Just get that shotgun mic plugged into the camera.
Don't worry about the film look in After Effects. Try to get as good a picture going into the camera as possible, that's what's going to make the most difference. You can't fix bad lighting or composition in After Effects.
although it's better to get sound right the first time, premiere does have some nice noise gate filters up it's sleeve that work magic if you know how to use them
just so you can all be up to date...i'm finishing up a feature script i'm going to start shooting july 4th weekend and finish it up mid-late august. can only shoot on weekends and night...but since i'm in alaska right now i get daylight till 11pm and later. going to be real quick stuff...no kubrick shots, but mainly for fun and to practice editing....put my money where my mouth is kinda thing...i've been talking movies to everyone including you guys forever and i'm finally getting my a$$ in gear.
does that interlacing thing happen during shooting or with premiere?
One really important thing. Get a good external hard drive. Every 5 minutes of DV equals 1 GB of memory. If you're doing a feature get an external drive with like 60 GB. Save everything onto that or kiss your computer's memory goodbye. Make sure to set all of your rendering to save on the external too.
Deinterlacing is best done during capture, as most decent capture boards and software will ask, OTHERWISE you can do it in premiere on export and I am not sitting at my control panel at the moment to give you more detailed instructions, but I can IM them to you.
Lastly - IM me if you'd like some help on the whole After Effects / Premiere / Audio issues and software, I might be able to help you in keeping your budget down.
Such as this - You need Premiere 6.5 and it costs $4-500 bucks. Instead spend the 4-500 hundred on Pinnacle's DV500 DVD capture card and breakout box and you'll get Premiere 6.5 retail already included. You get a two fer there.
Anyway, email me or IM me here and we can talk, I'll be happy to help you out.
Also, if its at all possible you want to plug the shotgun mike into a secondary recorder and record seperately from your video source, it makes things so much easier and quality higher in the end. Mini Disc recorders aren't expensive and they're excellent quality. DAT recorders even better, more $ but worth it.
Ultimately you CAn record directly onto your tape, but a thousand things can go wrong and then you'll have to do Foley work you didn;t anticipate and a bunch of ADR stuff.
Anyway, best of luck
Quote from: redlumI was wondering what the filmmakers here were doing about the sound in their movies. I've gotten to the point where I want something more than the onboard mic of my camera but I dont think a £200-500 investment in a shotgun mic is worthwhile. This sort of price range seems to be what most sites are saying.
I think it's worth it. I use a two system approach. A grip holds a boom mic for dialog which is ran through my Yamaha ProMix 01 and then digitally transferred to DAT. Great digital sound that is easy to dump in and sync.
anyone know the difference between getting the audio technica atr55 (60$) designed for camcorders or getting the audio technica at835b (250$)??
$190.
Yeah, this looks like a good low-no budget solution to me. (ATR 55)
http://www.1shoppingsource.com/jandr/audio/prod_detail.php?ProdID=24501
Objections?