Xixax Film Forum

which is the best?  for all around cinema.

did a search and couldn't find it anywhere.

-sl-

Ooh, good poll. the worst decade in cinema would be great. The 80s would win hands down, I think, in that case.

Quote from: Gamblor Posts DrunkOoh, good poll. the worst decade in cinema would be great. The 80s would win hands down, I think, in that case.

which is ironic because 90% of us grew up during the 80's and it should be the decade most fondly remembered.  (and probably is for me).

I don't think I've seen anything made between 1900 and 1910.

I don't think I'm alone, either.

I'm surprised no one (besides me) has voted for the 90s. The 70s were great, sure, and even the 60s, but I'm so much more connected and familiar with the 90s.

I like the 90's to but for me even though the 60's seem so far away I really connect with a lot of the films. Even more so than the 90's

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanI'm surprised no one (besides me) has voted for the 90s. The 70s were great, sure, and even the 60s, but I'm so much more connected and familiar with the 90s.

I'm too most connected with the 90s, but thats because I grew up to it. I voted the 60s because I think it was the critical decade where art in film really progressed to its own identity. The progression was because it was the first decade a generation had already grown up to film and weren't just accepting the norm of what film was years before. Movements started and theories were applied. Even for me, being programmed to desire newer films, most of the exciting films I've ever seen came from the 60s. And I'm still discovering more films all the time from that decade.

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanI'm surprised no one (besides me) has voted for the 90s. The 70s were great, sure, and even the 60s, but I'm so much more connected and familiar with the 90s.

I'm gonna copy and paste my argument from the other thread...

"No one wants to say the 90s [is the worst decade] because it's too soon. There were great moments in independent cinema, and these are movies we've truly grown up with, but seriously, I think the 90s were more mediocre than we can consider. The truly great 90s movies off the top of my head: Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction, Fargo, but past that, I can only see that all the new directors are cashing on cheap or cute premises. (this is a broad, sweeping generalization). They're all wannabe greats, but not the real thing. Even Tarantino, the savior of modern auteurs, is starting to whither, or has been for a while. "

To expand, I think the 90s had very shallow films compared to the important films of the 60s and 70s. I think it was William Goldman (I'm probably totally wrong) who said that screenwriters back in the day had backgrounds in dramatic writing, and today people just start writing movies without any background, they just jump with no experience in writing or life. He says one should be put in jail and go through a few divorces before you can write anything important.

Watching Million Dollar Baby recently, I really felt this statement. I felt that Eastwood was really, truly making something important that expanded our knowledge of the human condition. It's a truly great movie, like the great great movies of the 60s and 70s that say something about humanity. I don't think the 90s has movies that prove this. I think they all just reiterate.

I agree I'm connected to the 90s, but I see most of it as very fickle, shallow cinema actually. Cinema is like a thick sandwich or a hearty beer. I have to feel full after watching it, I need to feel satisfied all over. Older movies do this, newer ones don't. This could be just me.

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanI'm surprised no one (besides me) has voted for the 90s. The 70s were great, sure, and even the 60s, but I'm so much more connected and familiar with the 90s.

I'm too most connected with the 90s, but thats because I grew up to it...
Even for me, being programmed to desire newer films...

Growing up in the 90s, I wouldn't say I was programmed to desire newer films... but the newer films were all I knew. As a kid, I wasn't seeking out old movies. Beethoven and the Mighty Ducks were fine. I don't think that the 90s were a horrible era, but it's too soon for me to say that the 90s were a great era.

If anything, lately I've been programmed to appreciate older films.. with artistic merit, etc. etc. because of my recent experiences as a film snob/student/cinephile. And, yeah, there are some films that I cherish with my life, that come from the 60s and 70s. And I wouldn't have watched them if I didn't actively seek them out to further my education and film knowledge. But, I'm trying to break out of that behavior, because it's a bit too self indulgent and close-minded.

I think modern cinema (00's) are the most exciting and "important" right now because I sense a lot of progress is being made. And there's a lot of newer movies that are as good if not better than anything else that's already been made.

Gamblor, it's mindblowing to me that you can criticize 90s films for being cheap and then praise Million Dollar Baby.

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanGamblor, it's mindblowing to me that you can criticize 90s films for being cheap and then praise Million Dollar Baby.

Even though I think this statement is too condescending for its own good, I sorta have to agree. Million Dollar Baby had a story dusted from a melodrama warehouse and no one noticed because that line of films haven't been mass produced since the 1950s. If I made a top ten list for the worst films of 2004, Million Dollar Baby would be #1.

Quote from: MIf anything, lately I've been programmed to appreciate older films.. with artistic merit, etc. etc. because of my recent experiences as a film snob/student/cinephile.

I understand that. I even sympathize. I use to be a whipping dog for that line of thinking. I prolly still am in many ways. Its just I've stepped on enough "praised" films to know you can listen to the crowd and not consent. I believe there are exciting films being made now, but I think larger knowledge comes from looking back. Nevermind, its just personal in the end.

So your saying Million Dollar baby was the WORST film last year? :shock:  you know garfield was made last year.

Garfield made me laugh twice (I think). Besides, the situation of Jennifer Love Hewitt continuing to play wholesome characters who run around in little tops keep hope alive for those twelve year old boys who are restricted from PG-13 movies.

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetGarfield made me laugh twice (I think). Besides, the situation of Jennifer Love Hewitt continuing to play wholesome characters who run around in little tops keep hope alive for those twelve year old boys who are restricted from PG-13 movies.

With broadband, who needs JLH and PG-13 movies?

Back in my day we had to wait all day to download porn.  Kids these days, with your broadband and your DSL, you don't cherish the porn like we did, son!

Quote from: Ravi

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetGarfield made me laugh twice (I think). Besides, the situation of Jennifer Love Hewitt continuing to play wholesome characters who run around in little tops keep hope alive for those twelve year old boys who are restricted from PG-13 movies.

With broadband, who needs JLH and PG-13 movies?

Back in my day we had to wait all day to download porn.  Kids these days, with your broadband and your DSL, you don't cherish the porn like we did, son!

So, what you're saying is that this is the best decade for pornography?

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanGamblor, it's mindblowing to me that you can criticize 90s films for being cheap and then praise Million Dollar Baby.

God dammit, where is Ono? He knows what's up.

JB, sorry you feel that way. When I saw MDB, I was in the middle of writing this stupid screenplay for class at the time, and watching the movie, I thought to myself, "Why in the fuck am I writing the stupid shit in my screenplay when people like Eastwood are making films that are this important? I'm writing a waste of time."

Anyhow, I don't feel like arguing for MDB. Except for I'll say, 90s movies rehash old movies, while MDB is that old movie.

Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanGamblor, it's mindblowing to me that you can criticize 90s films for being cheap and then praise Million Dollar Baby.

God dammit, where is Ono? He knows what's up

Anyhow, I don't feel like arguing for MDB. Except for I'll say, 90s movies rehash old movies, while MDB is that old movie.

What's up is your hero worship.

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? MDB is the first movie I've seen with Eastwood starring in it. Other than that, I've seen and loved Mystic River. Please, start using size 1 so I can be spared of actually having to read what you say.

Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk90s movies rehash old movies, while MDB is that old movie.

I kind of get what you're saying, but I think it just wants to be a big, classic, important movie. I think it crumbles under its own weight. And I don't think I saw a more derivative movie in 2004. I still haven't heard one substantial defense of MDB, and that includes the debate we had months ago.

Maybe this would be a better discussion if you named the older films that you're comparing 90s films to.

I think you might be taking a few dominant 90s figures (Tarantino and other openly derivative filmmakers) and unfairly naming them representatives of the decade. I think the 90s films that I love are not the ones that you're knocking down like so many straw men.

You could say that as the history of film piles up, the mainstream naturally becomes more derivative. But those are all more reasons for outsiders to innovate and struggle against the mainstream. Isn't that what the 90s was all about? Wiping out the 80s? The alternative was mainstreamed and so the new alternative is instantly more radical. Didn't the same thing happen with music?

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman

Quote from: Gamblor Posts Drunk90s movies rehash old movies, while MDB is that old movie.

I kind of get what you're saying, but I think it just wants to be a big, classic, important movie. I think it crumbles under its own weight. And I don't think I saw a more derivative movie in 2004. I still haven't heard one substantial defense of MDB, and that includes the debate we had months ago.

Maybe this would be a better discussion if you named the older films that you're comparing 90s films to.

I think you might be taking a few dominant 90s figures (Tarantino and other openly derivative filmmakers) and unfairly naming them representatives of the decade. I think the 90s films that I love are not the ones that you're knocking down like so many straw men.

You could say that as the history of film piles up, the mainstream naturally becomes more derivative. But those are all more reasons for outsiders to innovate and struggle against the mainstream. Isn't that what the 90s was all about? Wiping out the 80s? The alternative was mainstreamed and so the new alternative is instantly more radical. Didn't the same thing happen with music?

it happened with music for a year and a half then it became shit all over again.  

nineties did wipe out the 80s for cinema, but any other decade could have hands down.  it didn't take too much of an effort.  i agree that the 90s is over rated.  it was good, but shit look at the 50s to 70s.  solid gold.

-sl-

I don't think the 90s is overrated at all. I've only heard complaints about the 90s.

Quote from: MI don't think the 90s is overrated at all. I've only heard complaints about the 90s.

just from this site?  or you mean in general?

-sl-

Quote from: socketlevel

Quote from: MI don't think the 90s is overrated at all. I've only heard complaints about the 90s.

just from this site?  or you mean in general?

-sl-

Just in general. Everybody complains about blockbusters.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman
Maybe this would be a better discussion if you named the older films that you're comparing 90s films to.

I think you might be taking a few dominant 90s figures (Tarantino and other openly derivative filmmakers) and unfairly naming them representatives of the decade. I think the 90s films that I love are not the ones that you're knocking down like so many straw men.

When I think of great past films, here's what I think of:
Strangelove, 2001, 8 1/2, Psycho, Godfather, Taxi Driver, Rear Window, Citizen Kane, The Third Man....this is just a who's who...these are movies that are well known for being great to a lot of people.

JB, I'll admit, I am hanging guys like Tarantino out to dry, but you have to admit, without further hindsight, Pulp Fiction will be the movie remembered for the 90s. And maybe Shawshank because Ted Turner plays it so much.

pulp is remembered for the 90's just as much as taxi for the 70's.  the only difference is that we were there for pulp so it seems nostalgiac and 'trapped in its era'.  but we can still romanticize and  seperate any films that came out prior to our (being alive or being old enough to notice) but i dont think they're more timeless.

It is interesting to note that the passage of time can turn a poorly-received movie into a classic.  When Taxi Driver first came out, many critics took a dump on it, and it landed on few top 10 lists for 1976, but by the end of the 70's it was considered one of the best films of the decade.  Now it's considered a classic.  Even Raging Bull received mixed reviews upon its first release in 1980.  By 1989, it was called the Best Film of the Decade by numerous critics.  When The Godfather came out, it got great reviews, but no one thought it was going to become one of the most highly regarded films of all time.

Thus, a lot of films from the 90's have yet to attain status as classics, because not enough time has passed.  

For me, Unforgiven was something I enjoyed upon first viewing in 1992, but I didn't think it was a classic, or even a semi-great movie.  It is only after a few more viewings, after 10 or so years, that its greatness became evident.

William Goldman said the 90's were the worst decade for film, but I think he didn't get out enough to see more independent films.  There was a rich vein of great films in the 90's, and it will probably take another 10 years for everyone to realize how many great films were made.

Even in the 70's, a lot of folks kept saying, "They don't make movies like they did in the good old days."  Now the 70's are the "good old days."

so then it's none of the movies we mention from the 90s, it's the other ones.  that's an interesting thought.

i always thought "the minus man" was never appreciated.  i loved that film.  not to mention that it has the best trailer ever.

-sl-

sorry, i thought you said something else.  i thought you ment all the gems were undiscovered when they came out, so those would be the remembered ones in the future.

but i see your point now, and for what it's worth i think you're bang on.

but it's still an interesting thought that maybe the classics of now are not being seen till the next generation of filmmakers let them out of the bag.

-sl-