Xixax Film Forum

I always have these questions that are too small for new threads but still worthy being asked.

I'll be using 'Kotte asks...' to prevent flooding.


What do you feel about self-consciousness in movies?

Which, in your opinion, are the 3 most self-conscious movies?

i think you need to better explain you question

Well...movies that within point out it's a movie we're watching...

For example, Hudsucker Proxy. The dialogue is so highten. Very unrealistic but in a good way.

The Coens are a good example of self-conscious...except Fargo.

Even Fargo is self-conscious in its own way. It knows exactly where it's going, and exactly what it's doing to the audience as it does so. It's very calculated, but in [as you say] a good way.

kevin smith's films are almost the definition of self-conscious.  not that it's always a bad thing, but in the cases of mall rats and maaaybe JASBSB (but no, it was mostly enjoyable wasnt it?) it was...

i think i have stated the obvious tho.

Quote from: ewardkevin smith's films are almost the definition of self-conscious.  not that it's always a bad thing, but in the cases of mall rats and maaaybe JASBSB (but no, it was mostly enjoyable wasnt it?) it was...

i think i have stated the obvious tho.

I really hate those 'look into the lens' jokes. Makes a joke out of it's own self-consciousness...which makes it self-conscious in a bad way.

I think movies that uses certain techniques in the story telling, like memento, are self-conscious. I liked the movie. It's inventive, it's cool, it's fresh...but it pulls you out of it everytime it jumps to the previous event.

i think ur redefining what self-conscious means. cos if it's heightened style like u said in the coens, then that's just pretty much ever movie. every movie is heightened reality,.

then with memento,. i can see how that's self-conscious but that's different altogether. cos it's making u aware of general movie convention. by that new definition any gimmicky movie is self-conscious.. Spy Kids 3D for example.

the best type of self-conscious, the one i thought about originally, is the one that is aware of its audience and plays with it. these films are difficult to list, sumthing like Reservoir Dogs would be one. Barry Lyndon is an even better example. then it becomes interesting to define just what exactly it makes the audience aware of, through it's own movie-self-awareness.

it's all a bit confusing and vague.

the end of And The Ship Sails on, where the camera pulls out from the ship to show the camera crew filming the fake ship on a fake sea might be a good example.

I love this kinda self-consciousness.

...sorta like the coda to Taste Of Cherry, but that didn't work as well for me.

I don't think every movie is self-conscious, only the ones that involve the camera in the storytelling...like another character.

Most movies use the camera as an observer.

Sure, movies aren't real but a majority of directors try to convince us it's set in our world, the world we live in. Hudsucker never wants us to believe it's real...an obvious example.

Quote from: SoNowThenthe end of And The Ship Sails on, where the camera pulls out from the ship to show the camera crew filming the fake ship on a fake sea might be a good example.

Damn. I have to check that one out. That sounds great. :)

It is.

Ya gotta love Fellini.

Another good one is when Guido whips the chick in 8 1/2, and she turns to the camera and says "what a man!".

Dogville and Adaptation are the only movies that i can come up with right now.

High Fidelity

But just like Adaptation, it's more of a personal narrative than anything else--a way for the main character to relate to the audience in an easy way.

the thing with High Fidelity is that a big part of the movie (at least half of it),  you get the feeling that you're watching a book. but not because is self-conscious, it's a bad adaptation, IMO.

Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

...........mel brook's films are ...sssssself cccoonnnscience....some of them


or the character of jar jar binks..ya?????

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

I think it's wrong to call Dogville a filmed play.  Not only it's an unfilmable play( because of weather effects and cars , to name some examples) but the subtleness , or the big idea, could only work in a cinematic way. Point in fact,  i can't imagine another director other than Lars Trier pulling 'that' off . His hypnotic editing style comes very handy on this movie.

What i meant when i said  self-consious is that when you start watching it,  you are aware that you are not watching a normal 'anything' .

Quote from: chuckhimselfo

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

I think it's wrong to call Dogville a filmed play.  Not only it's an unfilmable play( because of weather effects and cars , to name some examples) but the subtleness , or the big idea, could only work in a cinematic way. Point in fact,  i can't imagine another director other than Lars Trier pulling 'that' off . His hypnotic editing style comes very handy on this movie.

What i meant when i said  self-consious is that when you start watching it,  you are aware that you are not watching a normal 'anything' .

But it is a play. It lacks everything material a film has. Which is what makes it so wonderful and amazing.

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfo

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

I think it's wrong to call Dogville a filmed play.  Not only it's an unfilmable play( because of weather effects and cars , to name some examples) but the subtleness , or the big idea, could only work in a cinematic way. Point in fact,  i can't imagine another director other than Lars Trier pulling 'that' off . His hypnotic editing style comes very handy on this movie.

What i meant when i said  self-consious is that when you start watching it,  you are aware that you are not watching a normal 'anything' .

But it is a play. It lacks everything material a film has. Which is what makes it so wonderful and amazing.

Still, the 156 crane shots put together make me think different...

Quote from: chuckhimselfo

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfo

Quote from: kotte

Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

I think it's wrong to call Dogville a filmed play.  Not only it's an unfilmable play( because of weather effects and cars , to name some examples) but the subtleness , or the big idea, could only work in a cinematic way. Point in fact,  i can't imagine another director other than Lars Trier pulling 'that' off . His hypnotic editing style comes very handy on this movie.

What i meant when i said  self-consious is that when you start watching it,  you are aware that you are not watching a normal 'anything' .

But it is a play. It lacks everything material a film has. Which is what makes it so wonderful and amazing.

Still, the 156 crane shots put together make me think different...

So just because he shows things ten feet up it's a film film? Then, theoretically, the audience watching a broadway show from the balcony are watching a movie?

I know Dogville is a film but I still think it is, in a way, a filmed play. The crane shot argument won't make me think differently.

then we'll have to disagree.    while we're on the subject,  after watching it (i mean, days after)  did you get the sensation that the bushes,houses, and even the landscapes where really there?    that's one of many aspects i loved of the movie.

Quote from: chuckhimselfothen we'll have to disagree.    while we're on the subject,  after watching it (i mean, days after)  did you get the sensation that the bushes,houses, and even the landscapes where really there?    that's one of many aspects i loved of the movie.

Not really. It's too artificial for that. The whole point of the style was to strip out everything but the core: The characters and the story.

Let's movie this dicussion to the Dogville (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=2572) thread.

a wonderully self conscious movie is annie hall.

it definitely is very broad and vague as P said, i guess you can stretch it so far that almost every movie is self conscious in some way...

Quote from: chuckhimselfothe thing with High Fidelity is that a big part of the movie (at least half of it),  you get the feeling that you're watching a book. but not because is self-conscious, it's a bad adaptation, IMO.

Now hold it right there. I've just recently read High Fidelity and I think they did a great adaptation job on that one. It's a very self-reflective narrative, told by one man's point of view and I think they did a fresh, funny and, well, certainly self-conscious movie in... the good... way...  :)

time to ask something new , Kotte

would austin powers apply..

i recall a scene where bazzle looks at the screen and says 'you all have a good time too' and austin looks with him...or am i off topic

godard films!!!
especially band of outsiders

What's the name of the guy that died of filmmaking? A german guy.

klaus kinski?

could it be?

that's the way to go. Filmmake oneself to death.

it might be him i'm not even sure. but he always went to extreme when it came to acting like in the herzog directed movie "woyzeck". kinski had just wrapped with herzog the shooting of "nosferatu" and went straight on to make "woyzeck". you've probably seen the doc "my best fiend - klaus kinski (directed by herzog) where herzog mentions that kinski burned himself out after making his directorial debut "kinski paganini". that would mark the end of his work in the movie business and he later passed away of a heart attack in 1991 at the age of 65.

I don't know if he's the guy.

"My guy" had so many ideas he wanted to realize he never slept.
He directed a film about a skipper and whore...I think... :?

What commentary should I listen to tonight when I go to bed?

http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kotte

VS


where are you from?

me?

Sweden...

Not to bring up the old topic...but I will anyways.  Goodfellas I think was a very self-concious movie.  That scene in the courthouse where he gets up and starts talking to the camera always freaked me out.

I think one of the most self-conscious films I've ever seen was Full Frontal.

Quote from: kotteWhat commentary should I listen to tonight when I go to bed?

http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kotte

u already made a thread about that.. http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=1975&start=0

pas was right, u are creepy.

Listen to the magnolia commentary. The secret xixax one.

Quote from: Pubrick

Quote from: kotteWhat commentary should I listen to tonight when I go to bed?

http://www.dvdaficionado.com/dvds.html?cat=1&id=kotte

u already made a thread about that.. http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=1975&start=0

Yeah, I know but I was just asking for advice...ended up listening to The Godfather track...

Quote from: Pubrickpas was right, u are creepy.

yeah, like it didn't turn you on...

Kotte, how're things in Sweden? I covered a Swedish film festival for Lincoln Center about 1 1/2 years ago. Got to have lunch at the consulate and have drinks with lots of filmmakers. Are you familiar with Baker Karim or Mans Herngren and Hannes Holm?

Quote from: mutinycoAre you familiar with Baker Karim?

i am, i've talked with him for about an hour. nice guy.

Agreed. I believe his first feature was the cheapest in Sweden's history. $2000 in mini-DV.

Quote from: mutinycoKotte, how're things in Sweden? I covered a Swedish film festival for Lincoln Center about 1 1/2 years ago. Got to have lunch at the consulate and have drinks with lots of filmmakers. Are you familiar with Baker Karim or Mans Herngren and Hannes Holm?

I know them too. So you had drinks with them, that's cool.

It's good here. It's spring and it makes me happy...