I'm thinking of starting watching some of the old school directors I see sometimes mentioned on Xixax. This includes Fellini, Godard, Bergman, Kurosawa, Hitchcock, Truffaut, Clouzot, Cocteau, Melville, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions on movies by them or other directors that I should start with? Any suggestions will help.
Oh, and has anyone seen Kalatozishvili's I am Cuba or Riefenstahl's Triumph des Willens (Triumph of the Will)? I'm interested in seeing them for some of the camerawork and all that and would like to know if they're worth watching.
some good american ones (not necessarily in ethnicity, but hollywood based) - capra, ford, curtiz, fleming, robert wise, john huston, howard hawks......
Here's some of my favorites, I'm not an expert on any of them by any means, I still have a lot to see (never even seen any Kurosawa!)....see, I am getting into 6 different decades at once while still trying to keep up withall the good contemporary stuff so I'm a little overwhelmed....but here's what I can give you for now, glad you have interest.....
WELLES -- Citizen Kane, Touch of Evil, The Trial (might be my favorite Welles film)
GODARD -- Breathless, Band of Outsiders, My Life To Live, Contempt, Pierrot le Fou
TRUFFAUT -- The 400 Blows, Jules and Jim, Shoot the Piano Player, Small Change, Day for Night
MELVILLE -- Bob le Flambeur
HAWKS -- Rio Bravo, The Big Sleep, His Girl Friday, Red River, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings
LEONE -- Once Upon a Time in the West, The Good The Bad & The Ugly, For A Few Dollars More, A Fistful of Dollars
FORD -- The Searchers, The Quiet Man, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, My Darling Clementine, Stagecoach
HUSTON -- The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, The Maltese Falcon
PREMINGER -- The Man with the Golden Arm, Anatomy of a Murder, Carmen Jones, Laura
HITCHCOCK -- Psycho, Rear Window, Vertigo, The Birds
KAZAN -- On the Waterfront, Splendor in the Grass, A Streetcar Named Desire
WILDER -- Some Like It Hot (only one I've seen)
KEATON -- see it all, get the boxset
CHAPLIN -- The Kid (my favorite), Modern Times, City Lights, The Great Dictator, The Gold Rush
STURGES (JOHN) -- The Magnificent Seven, The Great Escape (never seen any of Preston's stuff)
SIRK -- All That Heaven Allows, Written on the Wind
FRANKENHEIMER -- The Manchurian Candidate
DE SICA -- The Bicycle Thief, Umberto D
MURNAU -- Sunrise
BRESSON -- Pickpocket, Mouchette
CUKOR -- Gone with the Wind, Holiday, The Philadelphia Story,
STEVENS -- A Place in the Sun, Shane
Then just see all these guy's other great films that I didn't recommend you only because I haven't seen them PLUS as many Astaire/Rogers movies as you can as well as "The Third Man", "Singin' in the Rain" and "Night of the Hunter" and before you know it, you've seen most of the real essentials of the 20's through the 50's. And make sure you do one thing, START WITH WELLES....if you haven't already seen of his stuff, start with his stuff....I found myself wishing I had done that. He's the most essential of them all after all. Don't ignore Fellini and Kurosawa and Bergman and all them just cause I left them out either, I'm sure their stuff is fucking amazing, I just haven't seen any of it. Like I said, I have a long way to go.
Not really that old. But I've always enjoyed most of Hal Ashbys stuff.
Quote from: StefenNot really that old. But I've always enjoyed most of Hal Ashbys stuff.
Absolutely, if you haven't seen Ashby, check out Ashby. By the way, clarify if you were talking about the 70's....cause I'll just recommend you "A Decade Under the Influence" which will make you an expert on that golden age. I was trying to list the 60's and back with the exception of Kubrick who I assumed you already knew and Cassavetes who I've always associated with the 70's moreso than the pre 70's - I'm mentioning him now anyway. Run, don't walk to blind buy "Shadows" and "A Woman Under the Influence" right now....buy the Kubrick box set too while you there if you haven't seen any of his stuff. You deserve to be set back a 100 bucks or so for ignoring him this long.
Quote from: ebeamanQuote from: StefenNot really that old. But I've always enjoyed most of Hal Ashbys stuff.
Absolutely, if you haven't seen Ashby, check out Ashby. Clarify if you were talking about the 70's too by the way. Cause I'll just recommend you "A Decade Under the Influence" which will make you an expert on that golden age.
Definetely agreed on Decade Under The Influence. As a matter of fact do yourself a favor and invest in the $20 a month it costs to become a netflix member.
Quote from: StefenQuote from: ebeamanQuote from: StefenNot really that old. But I've always enjoyed most of Hal Ashbys stuff.
Absolutely, if you haven't seen Ashby, check out Ashby. Clarify if you were talking about the 70's too by the way. Cause I'll just recommend you "A Decade Under the Influence" which will make you an expert on that golden age.
Definetely agreed on Decade Under The Influence. As a matter of fact do yourself a favor and invest in the $20 a month it costs to become a netflix member.
I'm going to have to second that too, lol - if you haven't already, join Netflix, no question. I saw so many of the films I mentioned above through them. I have to mention Tuner Classic Movies too, always keep an eye on that for some of this stuff man, it's 24 hours a day with no commercials, imagine all the films they can show. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they've already shown 90% of the stuff listed above, no joke. They repeat all their stuff too though so don't worry, you haven't missed out by any means. I think Cukor's "Holiday" is on tomorrow night (Monday) as a matter of fact. Tape it then rent Welles' stuff and watch it afterwards.
You could always start by watching the Criterions from the beginning.
When I first started getting into older stuff, it always 'seemed' like the big directors and films were:
Fellini - 8 1/2 (I recommend Nights of Cabiria)
Bergman - Seventh Seal
Kurosawa - Seven Samurai (Yojimbo is great too)
Truffaut - 400 Blows
Godard - Breathless
Hitchcock - Rear Window (The 39 Steps is a fucking masterpiece, Vertigo is supposed to be classic too)
I've seen I Am Cuba, it's one of the best movies I've seen, sure you get jerk off over the camera work, but the stories it tells and the whole movie are the best parts.
If you want to go way back, start with D.W. Griffith. Birth of a Nation in 1915 was the Gone With the Wind/Star Wars/Lord of the Rings of its time. Then Intolerance followed in 1916. Many critics consider both films to be the best of all time -- they certainly helped create the medium of cinema we enjoy today. Griffith also directed Broken Blossoms in 1919, which is considered another masterpiece. There are other silents of note -- Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, and Eisenstein's Battleship Potempkin -- in the 1920's.
Someone mentioned netflix -- I use greencine.com, which has a better selection of foreign and obscure films.
Quote from: ebeamanCUKOR -- Gone with the Wind
wasnt it mostly victor fleming though? i know cukor was uncredited, but does anyone know how big his contribution was to the film?
Quote from: ewardQuote from: ebeamanCUKOR -- Gone with the Wind
wasnt it mostly victor fleming though?
Cukor was onboard but Gable didn't like him at all so he was replaced by Fleming, who ended up being replaced by Sam Wood after a while due to health issues.
some other greats are sam peckinpah
leone (i know he was mentioned but hes worth mentioning twice)
peter bogdanavich
cecil b. demille
david lean
john schlesinger (pre-midnight cowboy, like darling and billy liar)
w.s. van dyke II (he did manhattan melodrama with clark gable)
joseph l. mankiewicz (all about eve)
another great george cukor film is a bill of divorcement with john
barrymore and katherine hepburn
king vidor (billy the kid, some scenes of the wizard of oz, duel in the sun)
and of course elia kazan.....and a definite thumbs up to the welles suggestions too, i agree with those
thank you cinephile......do you know why only fleming was credited?
Thanks ebeaman for those tips, and yes, I have already seen everything of Kubrick's post-Lolita, except the Kirk Douglas ones, oddly enough...something about his chin...
and thanks gamblor. Those ones you listed were the first ones I was going to be buying, except I can't get to 400 Blows without having to buy the whole damned set, and I was going to start with Godard's Contempt for whatever reason. But definitely the first one I wanna start out with overall is 8 1/2, probably La Strada or Le Dolce Vita next for Fellini.
And I was seriously looking into Birth of a Nation (I had previously read about it years ago), but my older brother watched it in a history class and said it sucks, because its so...racist. I don't really care about that though, so I'll probably try to find it. Haven't heard anything of Intolerance or the other silent films.
Is I Am Cuba really that good? Well goddamn, now I really wanna buy it. I'm not sure of Triumph des Willens, though. I've heard it's the best-shot film. ever.
Either way, I'll start looking for the Criterions for cheap. Thanks. Any more help that comes will be most appreciated.
Quote from: Chest RockwellAnd I was seriously looking into Birth of a Nation (I had previously read about it years ago), but my older brother watched it in a history class and said it sucks, because its so...racist.
that's a kinda simplified and unfair summation....
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: Chest RockwellAnd I was seriously looking into Birth of a Nation (I had previously read about it years ago), but my older brother watched it in a history class and said it sucks, because its so...racist.
that's a kinda simplified and unfair summation....
Not really. It sucks because it's not only sickeningly racist, but it's really, really boring. One of the worst ever in my opinion, and if D.W. Griffith didn't come up with the so-called revolutionary techniques of that film, someone else would. They're that basic. So, the film doesn't really deserve to be revered at all.
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: Chest RockwellAnd I was seriously looking into Birth of a Nation (I had previously read about it years ago), but my older brother watched it in a history class and said it sucks, because its so...racist.
that's a kinda simplified and unfair summation....
Yea, well...I guess my brother isn't exactly the best role model as far as movie-buffs go
Here's an excerpt from a Coen Bros interview briefly denouncing "The Birth of a Nation", Joel might be kidding but you can never be sure with those guys. This is one of the main reason I haven't sought out the film...this and all the talk of racist overtones in it. But such a bad reaction from one of America's best filmmaker's is enough for me to ignore it right now. I'll stick with FW Murnau, he's not racist.
Q: Have you ever walked out of a film?
TOGETHER: Oh yeah!
JOEL: "Birth Of A Nation", that's one boring movie, man.
Scorsese seems to think it's important...
here's a snippet from a review by the fellow at dvdmoviecentral:
you have to take it for what it is, and the time period it came out of. For better or worse, a film like this could only have been made in the freedom of pre-studio system Hollywood. It happens to be one of the greatest examples of storytelling on film ever made, that just happens to have a disturbing point of view. There's no reason to view a picture made in 1915 as politically topical in today's world. In fact, even though the Klan of the teens and twenties used this picture as a rallying point, both Griffith and novelist Dixon publicly and loudly denounced them, and Griffith in his own writings expressed sorrow and hurt over the fact that people, especially African Americans, considered him a racist.
birth of a nation..you have to see it...it's definitly worth a view no matter who you are
edit - nm.
I'm shocked that Birth of a Nation is getting such negative remarks. If you're into film history at ALL, its a must. A MUST. You don't turn it down because its racist. That's all the more reason to watch the film - to see how the African Americans were perceived. This is one of the greatest films ever made. For anyone to say a 3 hour + Griffith epic from 1915 is boring, well I can safely assume that's not the film's fault. :roll:
Everyone do themselves a favour and purchase Kino's Griffith Masterworks Set.
Any recommendations on the DVD edition or anything from where I can get Birth of a Nation?
I really think everybody should see this. Fuck whether it's entertaining or not -- the fact of the matter is that this is an important film and you need to have an opinion about it. D.W. Griffith was a visionary who also happened to be a racist. Sure somebody else would have broken ground the way he did eventually, but that's not the point.
jesus christ, some ppl just don't know shit about movies.
Quote from: Chest RockwellAny recommendations on the DVD edition or anything from where I can get Birth of a Nation?
Buy it here. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007CVSB/qid=1072760599//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl74/002-3970243-2545617?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846)
Quote from: ebeamanFRANKENHEIMER -- The Manchurian Candidate
.
.and Seconds......or whatever the name is.......
but a perfect list by ebeaman.....
Quote from: NEON MERCURYbut a perfect list by ebeaman.....
Except for not enough Billy Wilder.
Quote from: NEON MERCURYQuote from: ebeamanFRANKENHEIMER -- The Manchurian Candidate
.
.and Seconds......or whatever the name is.......
another frankenheimer essential would be Reindeer Games..... :lol:
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: NEON MERCURYbut a perfect list by ebeaman.....
Except for not enough Billy Wilder.
Sunset Blvd kicks ass.
Quote from: Chest RockwellQuote from: MacGuffinQuote from: NEON MERCURYbut a perfect list by ebeaman.....
Except for not enough Billy Wilder.
Sunset Blvd kicks ass.
As does The Apartment... and Double Indemnity... and Love in the Afternoon... and the Seven Year Itch... and Witness for the Prosecution... and Sabrina... and Stalag 17... and The Lost Weekend... and the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes... and do I have to go on?
Also, this thread is not complete without Orson Welles' The Magnificent Ambersons.
lost weekend is my favorite wilder, and magnificent abersons is one of the welles films i have not seen.... :(
Quote from: CinephileQuote from: Chest RockwellSunset Blvd kicks ass.
As does The Apartment... and Double Indemnity... and Love in the Afternoon... and the Seven Year Itch... and Witness for the Prosecution... and Sabrina... and Stalag 17... and The Lost Weekend... and the Private Life of Sherlock Holmes... and do I have to go on?
Yes, until you mention "The Fortune Cookie".
The Fortune Cookie. :wink:
don't forget spirit of st. louis or avanti! either, quite good IMO
We listed 12 Wilder films and you're telling us not to forget some...
yep.
don't forget the fortune cookie.
Don't forget Fedora, Front Page and Buddy Buddy.
Quote from: Pdon't forget the fortune cookie.
Oh my god... I LOVE
The Fortune Cookie!!!! Some of the stylistic flourishes are so prescient of New Wave, and it's just a great, breezy, charming picture. Good one.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: NEON MERCURYbut a perfect list by ebeaman.....
Except for not enough Billy Wilder.
Yea, sorry about that, I was trying to stick to movies I had actually seen, I'm ashamed to say that that's the only one I've seen by Wilder unfortunately. There's no doubt in my mind all his other movies are great, I just didn't want to lie and list them for the sake of looking smarter or more knowledgeable than I really am, I figured I'd just be truthful about it. I don't pretend to be an expert after all.
Thanks Neon by the way, "perfect" is a strong word. Glad you think that.
By the way, I just want to formally add "Bob the Gambler" (Melville) to the list rathering than just editing my previous thread. I just blind bought it earlier today, just finished watching it minutes ago and my god, it may be one of my top 5 favorite films out of all the ones that I listed! It's that good! It's charm and beauty is that immediate, that I can already say this! I can't wait to watch "The Red Circle".
its so funny, i started the exact same thread when i was brand new here. you can take a look at its quick death if you like...
http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=1605
Quote from: themodernage02its so funny, i started the exact same thread when i was brand new here. you can take a look at its quick death if you like...
http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=1605
Thanks. Not bad suggestions in there.
Shit. I still have to get those Hitchcock Criterions before they're out of print.