Xixax Film Forum

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Trailer here. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/the_dreamers/)

Directed by: Bernardo Bertolucci

Written by: Gilbert Adair

Produced by: Jeremy Thomas

Cast: Michael Pitt, Eva Green, Louis Garrel

Premise: An American college student, Matthew (Pitt), pursuing his education abroad in Paris in 1968 becomes friends with a French brother, Guillaume (Garrel), and sister, Danielle (Green), through a shared love of the cinema, while the May, 1968 Paris student riots (which eventually shut down most of the French government) are happening in the background.

I dont know about the movie but the chick is very hot

i love french women.

so did this get raped/cut to hell by the ratings board or what?

or will we get to see the master's latest work proper?

The former. (http://www.imdb.com/SB?20030902#2)  You'll probably have to wait for the DVD to see the version Bertolucci intended.  Thank you, Fox Searchlight.

awesome

Larry Clark makes quasi-porn with ugly young people, and it manages to squeek by with an R.

One of the living legends of cinema uses attractive people -- oh, and they have to cut it.

fuck

wait for the dvd I shall

* oh... someone tell me if I'm wrong about Clark (maybe he got NC17's??). I'm just going by what I remember*

Kids was NC-17.  Bully snuck by with an R, but has an Unrated version.  Ken Park sure as hell will be NC-17 from what I've heard of it.  But yeah, I totally agree; the MPAA has their priorities all out of whack, especially after seeing the "orgy" caps from Eyes Wide Shut.

oh, well if all those got NC 17, then my comparison was idiotic. I take it back.


I don't necessarily think it's an MPAA fault. Why won't Fox just distribute the picture as NC17? Get a good campaign, sell it as an arthouse adult film, do right by the movie and its maker.

Of course, I'm being naive...

More bad news SNT. From imdb.

Bertolucci Film To Be Censored for Sundance Screening.

Fox Searchlight is expected to screen a highly censored version of Bernardo Bertolucci's controversial The Dreamers at the Sundance Film Festival this week, the London Sunday Times reported. In advance of its scheduled domestic release in March, the studio has reportedly made cuts of as much as 60 seconds to scenes involving frontal nudity and male masturbation, the newspaper said. In an interview with the Sunday Times, the cuts were condemned by one of the film's stars, Eva Green. "It is quite paradoxical, because in America there is so much violence, both on the streets and on the screen. They think nothing of it. Yet I think they are frightened by sex." (Bertolucci himself has previously expressed concern that his film would be "mutilated" by U.S. censors.) The newspaper said that the film will be shown uncut when it is released in the U.K.

I wonder who would be hurt more by a cinema boycott/DVD consumer-support of this film? I wouldn't want to hurt Bertolucci's film by skipping it 'til DVD, but then again, I don't want to give my money to a company that's skimping me on what I'm buying AND screwing Bertolucci. Torn...

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Fox Searchlight Pictures is daring to challenge the NC-17 taboo. The specialty films division of 20th Century Fox said Monday it will release the uncut version of Bernardo Bertolucci (news)'s "The Dreamers," marking the first time in more than six years that a studio belonging to the Motion Picture Assn. of America has distributed a film rated NC-17, a tag that generally means commercial death. The last time a major studio ventured into NC-17 territory was in 1997, when MGM released "Bent," which documented the plight of homosexuals under Nazism. "Dreamers," which will be rolled out in platform release starting Feb. 6 in New York and Los Angeles, contains graphic sexual content and full frontal male nudity. Helmer Bertolucci said in a statement: "'The Dreamers' is finally making it to the U.S. in its uncut version. I'm relieved -- in so many ways -- that the distributor has had the vision to release my original film. After all, an orgasm is better than a bomb." Set against the political backdrop of France in the spring of 1968, the film centers on the relationship of three students played by Eva Green, Louis Garrel and Michael Pitt (news). Left alone while their parents are on holiday, Isabelle (Green) and her brother Theo (Garrel) invite Matthew (Pitt), a young American, to stay at their apartment. There, they make their own rules as they experiment with their emotions and sexuality while playing a series of increasingly demanding mind games.
In making the decision to roll out the NC-17-rated version, Fox Searchlight distribution president Steve Gilula said company brass "looked carefully at the historical evidence on the rating." "We found that it's largely unused and mostly dormant," he said. "There are films with similar content that get played as unrated movies, so by using this rating you are just testing audiences' perception. And we found that the rating doesn't carry as much baggage as it did some time ago."
Movies in recent years that have earned the rating include such indie titles as "L.I.E.," "Crash" and "Requiem for a Dream" and studio releases "Henry and June" and "Showgirls."
But studios have often insisted that their specialty divisions steer clear of the NC-17 rating because many in the industry believe that some newspapers will not carry advertising for such films and some theater chains will not play them. Miramax, a division of the Walt Disney Co., had to abandon plans to distribute "Kids," which was released unrated through Shining Excalibur Films, a separate company set up to handle its rollout. And Universal Pictures refused to allow its October Films arm to release "Happiness" in 1998; it was distributed instead by indie firm Good Machine. Gilula said Fox Searchlight has not yet encountered any problems with theaters agreeing to play the movie or newspapers agreeing to carry advertising. He said executives at his company were dedicated to allowing Bertolucci's vision for the project to remain intact.
"This is a filmmaker who has a history of dealing with daring and provocative subject matter that tests the limits in film," Gilula said of Bertolucci, whose previous works include "Last Tango in Paris," "The Conformist," "Stealing Beauty" and "Before the Revolution." A success in 1973, Bertolucci's "Last Tango" was originally released with an X rating, which predated the MPAA's current adults-only rating, the NC-17.
"It's a film of serious subject matter that is very entertaining and deserves to be seen in the form that he intended by appropriate audiences," Gilula said of "Dreamers." Searchlight is prepared to unspool the film in more than 100 theaters, Gilula said, but will take it wider depending on the public's response. "'The Dreamers' provocatively explores human sexuality in a frank way," Fox Searchlight president Peter Rice said in a statement. "By releasing the film as Bernardo originally intended, we are following in the footsteps of classic films like 'Midnight Cowboy' and 'Last Tango in Paris.' We believe that NC-17 is the appropriate rating for 'The Dreamers' given that this is not a film for children under 17; it is an audacious and original film for intelligent critics and discerning adult audiences." Sundance Film Festival (news - web sites) attendees will have a chance to see Bertolucci's "The Dreamers" when the film makes its North American premiere in Park City on Jan. 20.

Best fucking news I've heard this year. Sound like someone making the decisions at Fox has a brain in their head.

Cannot wait to see this!!

*does a little happy dance*

I'm marking March 19th on my calendar.  Er, wait, last I checked, IMDb said a March 19th limited release.  Now that's changed?  Anyway, when is it set for a wide release?  That's more important.  Either way, I won't get to see it until a few weeks after that, most likely.  Art houses around here are a little slow like that.

Bertolucci's badge of honor: NC-17
The director trumpets the uncut release of 'Dreamers' as a victory.
Source: Los Angeles Times

LONDON — NC-17 may represent a scarlet letter to most movie marketers, but for Bernardo Bertolucci, it's a badge of honor and artistic integrity.

"This is a victory," Bertolucci said Tuesday. "And not just for me — it's a victory for freedom of expression."

The Italian director was exulting in the decision of Fox Searchlight Pictures to release his controversial, erotic new film "The Dreamers" uncut with an NC-17 rating (no one younger than 17 admitted).

The company's apparent U-turn, announced Monday, came after last year's attack by Bertolucci on Fox Searchlight's parent company 20th Century Fox, when it suggested "The Dreamers" should be cut to gain an R rating.

The film, set in the summer of 1968 in Paris, when students and workers clashed with riot police, is about three movie-buff teenagers — a French twin brother and sister, and a young American. Left to their own devices in the twins' apartment while their parents are away on vacation, the trio play film trivia quizzes and psychological games involving sexual forfeits. "The Dreamers" includes candid scenes of masturbation, graphic sex and full-frontal nudity.

"I'm happy with the fact the film is coming out [in America] in its entirety," said Bertolucci, speaking by phone from his office in Rome. "No one will ever know why it took so long to get to this point."

Fox Searchlight's decision is an intriguing one. For years, major studios who are signatories to the Motion Picture Assn. of America have opted to cut contentious movies in order to secure an R rating. The last major studio film to open with an NC-17 rating was "Showgirls" in 1995. Some studios, such as the Disney-owned Miramax, even have clauses in their contracts prohibiting the production or distribution of NC-17 films.

Peter Rice, the head of Fox Searchlight, said his bosses, 20th Century Fox Chairmen Tom Rothman and Jim Gianopulos, respected his decision to keep the NC-17 rating.

"There was a lot of discussion but ultimately we, as an independent company within a larger organization, are incredibly lucky in the amount of support we get from our parent company," said Rice.

Bertolucci, 63, is widely regarded as a master of world cinema, thanks to such work as "The Last Emperor" (his 1987 film that won nine Oscars), "The Conformist," "1900" and "The Spider's Strategem." But he also is no stranger to controversy; his 1973 movie "Last Tango in Paris" (originally rated X, now rated NC-17) caused an outrage when it was released. Coincidentally, that film was also about sexual partners in a Parisian apartment.

He was contractually obliged by Fox Searchlight to deliver an R-rated film. But in September at the Venice Film Festival, he flamboyantly made public his grievances about the proposed cuts to "The Dreamers."

At a crowded press conference, he declared it was likely to be "amputated and mutilated" for its U.S. release. Noting that the film would be seen uncut throughout Europe, he added: "Some people obviously think the American public is immature." Bertolucci disclosed Tuesday that he had been talking with Fox Searchlight executives since Venice. "I said I was very sorry that I had to make the cuts to deliver an R-rated movie," he recalled.

"Then I stopped fighting, because it seemed to me there was no way a major movie studio would release an NC-17 movie. That was what I had always been told."

But last week Fox Searchlight informed the film's British producer, Jeremy Thomas, that "The Dreamers" would open with an NC-17 rating. "That came out of the blue," Bertolucci said. "But they've said they're doing this because of their respect for my work. So let us accept what they say."

Despite suggestions the NC-17 rating may hamper the marketing of "The Dreamers," Bertolucci said Fox Searchlight had given assurances that only a few American theaters would balk at exhibiting the film and that TV advertising would not be affected.

Executives at Fox Searchlight insist the movie will live or die by its critical reception in the U.S. — not by the rating. Its first big test will be how well it is received when it premieres at the Sundance Film Festival. Searchlight's distribution team already is booking theaters in major cities such as New York and Los Angeles. In the next few weeks Searchlight will find out if exhibitors in more conservative places like Salt Lake City and Omaha, Neb., are willing to book the movie.

One memorable quote has already emerged from the resolution of the dispute. Bertolucci, as well as other filmmakers and critics such as Roger Ebert, have often been scathing about Hollywood studios' greater tolerance for violence on screen than for portrayals of sexuality. In a statement issued Monday by Fox Searchlight, Bertolucci remarked: "After all, an orgasm is better than a bomb."

"I was just making a link with 1968, when people used to say 'make love not war.' It was a little joke." Bertolucci is now interested to see whether other studios will follow Fox Searchlight's lead and take a different view on the NC-17 rating: "It wouldn't be bad," he said. "I'd be very happy if this could start a new direction."

That remains to be seen. Of the nearly 70 movies the MPAA website lists as rated NC-17, all of them are for explicit sexual content or nudity. Violence is not mentioned in a single description, unlike many films that end up with an R rating. Quentin Tarantino's crimson-drenched "Kill Bill: Vol. 1," for example, was rated R "for strong bloody violence, language and some sexual content." "The Dreamers" earned its NC-17 "for explicit sexual content."

Bertolucci is scheduled to arrive Monday at Sundance in Park City, Utah, for the U.S. premiere of "The Dreamers." It opens Feb. 6 in the U.S.

I don't understand why Bertolucci won't just send it to theaters as "Unrated."

But I do understand the buzz this is going to cause, which will hopefully return in dollars.  

Regardless, I will be very surprised if this movie shows in my town with the "NC-17."

By the way, does anyone know where I can get a The Dreamers poster?  The little version of it at IMDb looks pretty sweet.

one of those guys looks very pretty womanlike

I saw it today. Really dug it. It could've used a drop of editing perhaps. But I think even with the NC-17 it'll find an audience. And Eva Green will leave people drooling for hours afterward.

Bertolucci's 'Dreamers' Challenges Society Norms

PARK CITY, Utah (Reuters) - No stranger to controversy, Italian film director Bernardo Bertolucci has debuted "The Dreamers" at the Sundance Film Festival here, two weeks ahead of a U.S. release that has already caused a stir over the film's graphic sex.

The movie -- about a French brother, his sister and an American university student engaged in a love triangle during the Paris riots of 1968 -- earned an NC-17 rating from the Motion Picture Association of America, which means no one under 17 years-old will be admitted.

Such a rating often raises the ire of conservative groups and flattens box office sales and recalls the controversy that accompanied the release of what many consider to be Bertolucci's masterwork, the sexually daring "Last Tango in Paris" in 1973.

But in a telephone interview on Wednesday, Bertolucci praised the U.S. distributor, Fox Searchlight, which only last week decided to release "The Dreamers" with the cautionary NC-17. The director also said he hoped the film would lead young adults to question society norms and government rules.

"I hope it's a change of direction" in film, he said. "I hope there will be more movies not intended for kids (because) those movies can be more liberating, in some ways educating, to view more complex ideas. Otherwise, if we go only for the kids' stuff, (audience) minds will be soon dried up."

Bertolucci is considered a master filmmaker for movies like "Last Tango," 1964's "Before the Revolution" and his Oscar winning "The Last Emperor" in 1987.

Over the years, he has tackled many taboo topics. In 1979's "Luna," he spoke to incest, in 1971's "The Conformist" a boy's brush with homosexuality drives him to fascism, and in "Tango" he explored sexual intimacy in an affair of strangers.

"Tango," which starred Marlon Brando, also carried an adult-only rating, and at the time, some people branded it obscene. But now many deemed one of Bertolucci's masterworks.

"What I showed then wasn't being shown by anybody" said the director, "Sometimes you have to break some conventions."

BREAKING CONVENTION

"The Dreamers," like "Tango" and "The Conformist," is set in Paris. Michael Pitt plays an American student in Paris, Matthew, who befriends brother and sister, Theo and Isabelle.    

While the parents of Theo (Louis Garrel) and Isabelle (Eva Green) are on holiday, the siblings invite Matthew to stay with them in their Paris apartment.

Once there, the three engage in a triangle of sexual adventure and sex play. While the relationship between Theo and Isabelle borders on incest that Matthew finds strange, he nevertheless is drawn into a love affair with Isabelle.

Outside the apartment, the Paris streets have become a war zone with students and workers revolting against the government. Eventually, the outside world breaks into the apartment, forcing the three from their insulated environment into the real world.

Bertolucci uses sex -- there is frontal nudity, masturbation and sexual intercourse in the film -- to show that the kids were conducting their own sort of 1960's sexual revolution that questioned society's conventions, while on the streets of Paris, people are challenging government authority.

The director said that in current times, people have become too conforming, and that he hoped "The Dreamers" would help people see that questioning norms and policies is acceptable. Indeed in the 1960's, it was a rule, not an exception.

"Today, you never hear the word transgression. Today it is completely forgotten. I want people seeing the movie to know that if you could have been transgressive then, why can't you be today?," he said.

Sundance is a good place to debut "The Dreamers" in the United States because it is the premier U.S. film festival for independent cinema, but unfortunately back problems kept Bertolucci in London.

"The Dreamers" opens in New York and Los Angeles on Feb. 6, and spreads across the country in the weeks afterward.

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: OnomatopoeiaBy the way, does anyone know where I can get a The Dreamers poster?

Right here. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3378821168&category=1419)

Thanks.  Won the auction, can't wait to get the poster.

i fucking hate that kid michael pitt.

Why?

He hates him because there's a long close-up on his cock.

Quote from: mutinycoHe hates him because there's a long close-up on his cock.

Well if that's not a good reason to hate someone, I don't know what is.

Was there a quick shot in the trailer of the characters running inside a museum (the Louvre?), a la Band of Outsiders?

Quote from: RaviWas there a quick shot in the trailer of the characters running inside a museum (the Louvre?), a la Band of Outsiders?

That's what I thought, too...

yes, from some reviews ive read they try beating the time for the fastest run through the Louvre, a la band a part

Quote from: SoNowThen

Quote from: RaviWas there a quick shot in the trailer of the characters running inside a museum (the Louvre?), a la Band of Outsiders?

That's what I thought, too...

I noticed that as well.  I saw the trailer for it this weekend and I have to admit how bad I am at identifiying actors.  I thought that Leonardo Dicaprio was in this (I also watched fellowship of the ring the first time thinking Dicaprio was Legolas).  Anyways. the only other Bertolucci film I saw was Last Tango in Paris and I wasn't much of a fan.  I know that Kael blew an ovary in excitement over this film but I didn't see it.  Either way, I am intrigued about this.

Quote from: SHAFTR[the only other Bertolucci film I saw was Last Tango in Paris and I wasn't much of a fan.

You need to RUN, not walk, and go see Before The Revolution, The Conformist, and The Last Emperor.

Quote from: SoNowThen

Quote from: SHAFTR[the only other Bertolucci film I saw was Last Tango in Paris and I wasn't much of a fan.

You need to RUN, not walk, and go see Before The Revolution, The Conformist, and The Last Emperor.

I want to see the conformist...but no dvd.  I loved Once Upon a Time in the West, wasn't the screenwriter?

Stealing beauty

Bernardo Bertolucci's film-making hallmarks are politics and sex. But mostly sex. His latest, The Dreamers, is no exception. He talks to Xan Brooks about 1968 and all that

Thursday February 5, 2004


Bernardo Bertolucci:The Dreamers, he says, is 'a message of hope to the youth of today.'
 
Physically, Bernardo Bertolucci keeps a house in Rome and another in London. But his heart, one suspects, has always lived in Paris. This is the city he first ran to as a teenager, lured by the films of the nouvelle vague, and the one he installed as the backdrop for Marlon Brando and Maria Schneider's infamous last tango back in 1972. With his latest picture he's back there again. Played out against the student uprisings of 1968, The Dreamers is a hothouse valentine to sex and politics and cinema ... but especially sex. Inevitably, wags have been dubbing it his First Tango in Paris.

The Dreamers tells the tale of an American student (Michael Pitt) who gets seduced by a pair of enigmatic siblings (Eva Green, Louis Garrell) and moves into their sprawling Left Bank apartment. Outside it's the Age of Aquarius and the cinemas are screening Godard, Bresson, and the Hollywood classics. Inside there's heated arguments about life and art and stuff, and a tangle of naked limbs in the bathtub. Small wonder the  
viewer gets swept up in the drunken, lusty abandon of it all. According to The New Yorker, The Dreamers "is intense and languid, gritty and dreamy, sexy and silly, sentimental and profound, didactic and inconclusive - that is, pure Bertolucci." It also happens to be the best film he's made in decades.

So Bertolucci takes a seat - specs dangling about his neck, a bottle of champagne at his elbow - and explains that he wasn't actually in Paris at the time of the '68 uprisings but that friends kept him updated on each new development, "each fresh painted slogan on the walls". And while the finished product may be "pure Bertolucci", it didn't start out that way. The Dreamers began life as a novel (The Holy Innocents) by Gilbert Adair, who also wrote the screenplay. But the director retooled it in his own image. He peppered the narrative with clips from the films he loves. He cut out the gay sex and emphasised the straight. So instead of a menage-a-trois drama that tips towards homosexuality, we're left with the tale of a callow Yank who has sex with a foxy French girl while her possessive brother broods on the sidelines.

Bertolucci gives a very Latin shrug. "The gay sex was in the first script, but I had a feeling that it was just too much stuff. It became redundant. I told Gilbert: 'Please don't feel betrayed, but when a book becomes a movie it becomes a whole new conception.' And he told me: 'Be totally unfaithful'. So I think that I've been faithful to the spirit of the book but not the letter. I had to make it mine."

Certainly Bertolucci had been planning a film about the 1968 uprisings for years before The Dreamers came along. He insists, though, that this is no nostalgia trip, an old man's retreat to his bygone youth; claiming that the film has a crucial resonance today. On the one hand he points out that the last scene refers, very deliberately, to recent protests in Genoa and Seattle. On the other, he says that he sees the film as offering "a message of hope to the youth of today. There's a big difference between then and now. In 1968 there was a perception of the future, an assumption that the world could get better and that you'd be a part of that. Today that's not the case. So I wanted to talk about that feeling."

Even so, the director has arrived at a point where there is more road behind him than ahead. Born in Parma, he was a published poet by the time he turned 20, a film-maker at 22. International fame arrived with The Conformist in 1970, while his 1987 epic The Last Emperor won him an Oscar for best director. But today he is very much the elder statesman of world cinema, a balding, bull-like man of 63, who limps a little when he gets up to have his photo taken. "You look at me and you see a very old man, don't you?" he laughs.

For the past 25 years Bertolucci has been married to the British film-maker Clare Peploe. But he has never had any children. He once claimed that he was always too busy being a son to have any of his own; too conditioned by his relationship with his beloved father, Atilio, an Italian poet and critic. "My father died three years ago," he explains. "And having a father who is 90 means that you are still in the position of being the son. Then he dies and you grow up, and already you are an old man. So I feel as though I have gone straight from adolescence to old age without ever being an adult." He confesses though that he felt very paternal towards the young cast of The Dreamers. "For the first time in my life. Ever."

Was his father a mentor to him? "You could say that. Everything I learned, I learned from him, although he would never have referred to himself as something as pompous as a mentor. But he was very supportive of me. He was in love with all my films - except once, when he saw Last Tango in Paris. He came up to me afterwards and was very pale and had a panic attack. He said: 'Have you gone mad? What have you done?' He thought the whole family would be put in jail because of me."

In fact, his father wasn't far off the mark. Packed to the rafters with explicit, de-glamourised sex scenes, Last Tango provoked a major storm in Italy. The film was banned, and Bertolucci received a four-month suspended sentence, and had his civil rights revoked for five years, leaving him unable to vote. Even today the movie continues to cast a shadow. After the film's release, its stars took their director to task over his supposed exploitative tactics. Marlon Brando said he felt "raped" by the film, while co-star Maria Schneider - 19 at the time of filming - has claimed that the movie ruined her life. For her Bertolucci is "a gangster and a pimp" who taught her a harsh lesson: "Never take your clothes off for a middle-aged man who claims that it's art."

These days the director has grown used to shrugging off these charges. "Both of them were more than 21," he says, and then corrects himself: "Or more than 18 anyway. With Brando, we are now very close. But it is true that Maria was very young when we shot the film and maybe she couldn't articulate what happened, so what remains is a confused moment where I am the killer or the bad guy."

Does he feel any sense of responsibility for his actors? "Yes. During the shoot, but not afterwards. Otherwise I would [be left with] a family of dozens of actors. My responsibility is to give them an adventurous or exciting time while we are filming, and then that's it."

That said, Last Tango gave Bertolucci a reputation that continues to dog him. It accounts for his image as an unreconstructed Latin cavalier, flagrant in his treatment of nubile young actors (be it Schneider or Liv Tyler in Stealing Beauty); always political but never politically correct. And truth be told, Bertolucci hasn't gone out of his way to shoot down this perception. Collecting his award at the 1987 Oscars, he provoked an ecstasy of embarrassment when he quipped that: "If New York is the Big Apple, then LA for tonight is the Big Nipple." You could have cut the atmosphere with a knife.

Weighed against all this, of course, is his renown as one of cinema's most acclaimed and distinctive film-makers. On balance, it seems, there is no shortage of female actors eager to work with him. When I wonder if performers such as The Dreamers' Eva Green approach him with some trepidation, he snorts and shrugs and claims that it is all water under the bridge. "I don't think Eva Green even knows who Maria Schneider is," he says.

Actually, this isn't quite true. After our interview I ring the actress at her home in Paris (naturally). Twenty-three last birthday, Eva Green makes a vibrant acting debut on The Dreamers, starring as the sophisticated but virginal cineaste who gets deflowered on the kitchen floor. She tells me that she first watched Last Tango in Paris at the age of 12 and was fully aware of Schneider's gripe with its director. She admits that her mother, her father and her agent all begged her not to star in The Dreamers because "they were scared that I would have the same destiny as Maria Schneider". For good measure, she adds that her parents still object to the film. "My mother really hated it. She didn't sleep afterwards. She is scared that I'll be typecast as some sexual icon."

What was Green's own response? "I saw the film in rough cut, and I was quite shocked," she says. "I looked down when I saw my body and saw the sex scenes. For me it was as though I was wearing a costume while we were making the film. It was as if I had another story in my mind. So I was left speechless."

Green is at pains, though, to defend the director against his accusers. "Bernardo can be manipulative, but at the same time he makes you feel very free. It was a real exchange of ideas. And maybe he is different from how he was in the past. He is sixtysomething, not thirtysomething. Perhaps he is wiser and kinder now." She pauses to consider this. "It's not like he's a pervert," she says. "He is like my dad."

Quote from: chuckhimselfoMaria Schneider - 19 at the time of filming - has claimed that the movie ruined her life. For her Bertolucci is "a gangster and a pimp" who taught her a harsh lesson: "Never take your clothes off for a middle-aged man who claims that it's art."

*Nelson voice* Hahaha!


Maria should chill out and realize that: A. if you read the script and it's full of sex, and on set, you're constantly doing sex scenes, chances are the final product is gonna have a lot of sex in it..., and B. she got to be in one of the greatest films of all time, most actresses will never come close to that, so be thankful.

i have to see this movie.

Quote from: SoNowThen
Maria should chill out and realize that: A. if you read the script and it's full of sex, and on set, you're constantly doing sex scenes, chances are the final product is gonna have a lot of sex in it..., and B. she got to be in one of the greatest films of all time, most actresses will never come close to that, so be thankful.

I think she was just mad that they used butter instead of margarine.  Butter is so fattening.

^  by far the best post of the week!!!!!

David Denby's extensive (and lukewarm) review on page 74 of the Feb. 9 New Yorker, along with a full-page B&W Richard Avedon of strangely beautiful star Michael Pitt (who plays "Matthew, a young American movie buff who goes to Paris in 1968"- could that sound any more intriguing?).

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsalon.com%2Fent%2Findie%2F2004%2F02%2F06%2Fdreamers%2Fcover.jpg&hash=41200dc64667b38ac19ab906f082454592a9cb59)

Charles Taylor's Salon review (http://salon.com/ent/indie/2004/02/06/dreamers/index.html)

such a fantastic poster.... the UK version is also sweet.   again, i have to see this movie.

Lookin' forward to seeing this film this weekend. I recently stumbled across a picture of Eva Green in this month's edition of British Esquire in which she looks impossibly attractive.

Have heard nothing but shit about this movie.  

and that little Mini-Leo kid makes me want to strangle somebody (namely him)

Quote from: RegularKarateHave heard nothing but shit about this movie.

Specifically?

fuck i hate when ebert gives away the ending in his reviews.

'tis why I only read paragraph 1, 2, and the last one, in his reviews... until I've seen the movie.

Quote from: SoNowThen'tis why I only read paragraph 1, 2, and the last one, in his reviews... until I've seen the movie.

me too. it was in the last one that he said sumthing about the final actions of a character. he usually never does that, but he spent most of the review talking about his own experiences in the late 60s.

Hmm... he violated his own internal structure. That's no good...

Well, thanks for telling us anyway, I'll be sure to skip that one until (if ever) Dreamers comes to town.

Quote from: RegularKarate

and that little Mini-Leo kid makes me want to strangle somebody (namely him)

hahahaha...it does look like him......

You mean...that's not Leo?  :?  In all seriousness the only thing I know from Bertolucci is his involvement with Once Upon a Time in the West. I saw Ebert's review on his show and it looks like a really neat film. I'll see it.

It was funnier than I thought it would be.

Here's in an interesting review (from Stanley Kauffmann):

The news of a new Bernardo Bertolucci film gave me a double pang. The first was nostalgia for the high postwar days of Italian film. Bertolucci is much younger than the vanguard of that postwar group--he was born in 1940, Antonioni in 1912; but he was so active in the later days of the period, and his first notable film, Before the Revolution (1964), was so patently influenced by Antonioni that he almost seems the group's protégé. The second pang was fear--about the subject. For a long time Bertolucci seems to have been ravenous for subjects, sometimes grabbing at matters quite far from his temperament (The Last Emperor, Little Buddha), sometimes wallowing in poor material because it was close to his temperament (La Luna, Besieged, Stealing Beauty). Well, at least The Dreamers is in the latter group, close to what we might think of as Bertolucci's realm, but it is fraught with new poignancies.  

The screenplay is by the English film critic Gilbert Adair, who adapted it from one of his novels. Its title is too oblique: it might better have been called The Fantasists. The place is Paris in 1968. A twenty-year-old American named Matthew is there, supposedly studying French. We learn from his voice-over comments (bits of letters to his mother) that he has started going to the Cinémathèque and has become intoxicated with film, especially the American films that are often shown there. It is the year when Henri Langlois, the co-founder of the Cinémathèque and now its head, is slated for discharge by the government, which subsidizes the place. This act provokes fierce student riots that persist until Langlois is reinstated. During the riots Matthew meets two French students, Théo and Isabelle, twins of about his own age who speak English. They take him home to meet their English mother and their poet father. (Incidentally, Bertolucci's father was a poet.) Papa is mild about Matthew until the youth absentmindedly works out a sort of Paul Auster pattern on the tablecloth with a cigarette lighter. Papa is now impressed with the youth. As the parents are off to the country, Papa suggests that Matthew be invited to stay with Isabelle and Théo in this palatial Art Nouveau apartment.

Thus these three young people are ensconced in luxury, well equipped with food and wine and gonads. Outside the apartment the student riots are still boiling. Inside, the three go through various stages of friendship, intimacy, disputation, reconciliation, conveyed in gnomic dialogue. The three are linked by, among other things, their passion for film. They quarrel about Chaplin and Keaton, they imitate a death in Scarface, they mimic Garbo in Queen Christina, and much more, abetted by appropriate film clips that Bertolucci slips in. (The one grating insert in this movie-buff mélange is the death of Mouchette in Bresson's crystalline film.) All through the long stay in the apartment the relatively innocent Matthew is fascinated with this plunge into, as he thinks, continental depths, and the twins tease him, step by step, with their sexual freedom.

The twins are quasi-incestuous; they are often nude together, though apparently they never actually have sex. Matthew, too, is soon nude with them: full frontal nudity is the order of the day--and night. Amidst the numerous incidents, the three of them loll together in a foamy bathtub, which I suppose indicates that at heart they are still children. But they are not often innocent babes. One critic said that he found The Dreamers "disarmingly sweet and completely enchanting." The sweetness and enchantment must then include the scene in which Théo masturbates on a photo of Marlene Dietrich because Isabelle commanded him to do so, while she and Matthew watch. Then she scrapes Théo's semen off the wall and sniffs it. Sweet and enchanting, too, must have been the kitchen scene where Théo is frying eggs while Isabelle and Matthew are screwing on the floor behind him.

What is eventually dispiriting about these scenes, about the whole film, is that it all proceeds to no purpose. Possibly these sex episodes are meant to deride taboos and are performed by people somehow liberated by a passion for film, but, because these scenes are so overweeningly sophisticated, are in a smug way mere showing off, they soon degenerate into the escapades of naughty children who happen to be old enough to screw. These episodes just go on and on until a rioter's stone breaks a window. This presumably reminds them of their cinephile duty: the trio move into the streets and re-join the rioters. Politics and sex have often been conjoined in Bertolucci but never to so little point.  

Two of the young actors are adequate. Louis Garrel as Théo carries on competently in the Jean-Claude Brialy tradition--the young French intellectual who seems to be sitting at a café table even when he is walking around. Eve Green is lovely and generally sincere. But Michael Pitt as Matthew, trying hard, never cracks the cellophane in which he seems to have been shipped to France.

Bertolucci's directing has its usual sweep, its deft and startling use of close-ups, and the editing that, though logical, always seems a bit impatient. (The cinematography by Fabio Cianchetti is suitably lush.) But the overall effect of the film is melancholy: it seems desperate for the past. First, there are the several reminders of Last Tango in Paris. They begin with the glimpses of Jean-Pierre Léaud, who was the young film-maker in the earlier film, and who is involved in the riots here. (He is shot from a distance so that he can look as he looked in 1972.) Second, there is the very setting: once again Bertolucci wanted to stage his sexual circus in Paris. (And in Paris he could also have student riots about film.) Third, there is the use of the apartment as discrete sexual arena. In Last Tango it was an unfurnished place, this one is lavish. It is almost as if Bertolucci had thought, "Let's vary it this time. And, for further variation, this time let's have three people instead of two. And no Brando equivalent. This time everyone is young."

Sadly, this helps to make it an old man's picture. Bertolucci is now only sixty-three, after which age many a director has done good work, but in this film he strives so strenuously for the past that he seems to be facing backward. The very blatancy of the sex, its calculated lazy bravado, make us suspect that Bertolucci dyes his hair and worries about his chin line. In Last Tango the sex was only moderately explicit, but that apartment reeked of erotic musk: in this film the sex is much more explicit, but the effect is much more voyeuristic than engulfing.  

Saddest of all is his ache for 1968, for the cinephilia embedded in it, for the Bertolucci and the world that existed then. He longs for the time when students would riot because the Cinémathèque director-founder was assailed. He longs for the time when young people interwove cinematic passion with almost everything they thought and did--including, he posits somewhat enviously, torrential sex.

In 1966 I published an essay called "The Film Generation," which was about the American counterparts of those French students. Twenty years later I published an essay called "After the Film Generation," an obituary. It wouldn't have done any good to send Bertolucci a copy of the second piece. He knew everything in it and also knew that, when the chance came, he intended to disregard it. He wanted one more tango in Paris.

SoNowThen gets to see this movie this weekend. All rejoice!!

I'm seeing it Sunday.

So I saw this on Saturday night. At a nice arthouse theatre with real big red curtains and a balcony. For some reason that always makes the movie experience better.

I was about to write this off halfway through, however. Seemed Bertolucci wasn't coming up with the great shots I expected of him, and just falling into a soft-core turnaround. But... the last 15 minutes or so really brought everything together nicely, and proved that he did have a greater point, after all. And I quite enjoyed the clip of Mouchette, as that is the one Bresson movie I've never really loved, yet the way BB used it in this movie made me wanna see it again.

2 last things:

1. Music, although decent, was too Hendrix/Doors/Joplin heavy. I woulda liked Dylan/Beatles/Stones, but I suppose that would have cost more. Sucks all the same.

2. That french girl (Eva Green), wow, she has a killer body. BOOM :shock:

Flick won't be for everyone though.

I just got back from this....

What can I say? It made my chest hurt. I was astounded, astonished, exhalted. I flooooooaaated out of the place. It was much, much more in every way than I had hoped for.

A paean to cinema for all the cinephiles... a touching, bittersweet, lovely memento of the passion and freedom and exhilaration of youth... beautiful camerawork and cinematography... quite sophisticatedly polyerotic and accepting of sex and anatomy in the good European way, (happily) to the disappointment of some of my infantile fellow attendees who snickered at every glimpse of nudity like good 'ol sexually retarded Americans... I suppose I agree with SNT about the music on a personal-preference level, but it really seemed to work (so glad I had "Tous le Garcons..." on my headphones- I played it all the way home- and of course the borrowed music from the great films was fantastic)... loved the many little incidental bows to greats of the time like Sontag (Matthew's even reading Death Kit!!), Barthes, Francoise Hardy, Langlois, and of course all the films and filmmakers so lovingly given tribute...

I was overjoyed with it. It's the best Bertolucci I've seen since The Conformist. It's an exemplary work from a filmmaker who hasn't always given us his best... if he was holding out on us only to let us gorge ourselves on this triumph, though, it was well worth it. I can't wait to see it again. And again. And again. And then buy the DVD.

To top it all off, as a complement to the breathtaking Mouchette interpolation in the film, I saw that a revival of Au Hasard Balthazar is coming to the cinema that was playing The Dreamers.

It was just one of those purely happy cinema-days for me... and the sun even showed itself in Seattle today, so no scurrying in the rain.  :)

GOD ALMIGHTY LORD THIS IS THE BEST FILM EVER

and yup, i couldn't help thinking that Godardian would love it. Specially because of that Susan Sontag book on the desk.

i regret not jumping on this bandwagon earlier.

what does that mean, P?  explain... you and your bandwagons...  :?

haha, i mean that i wish i could claim that i knew this movie would be so awesome before anyone could confirm it. i remember seeing it listed on Sundance and i dismissed it cos the title wasn't good enuff. and then the poster was the second sign i ignored..

now i'm just a regular loser who likes sumthing after everyone else  :shock:

:D

I FINALLY saw this movie this morning, after a series of frustrating delays. I went into the theater charged up and ready to see my love of cinema reflected back at me with the vibrant passion suggested by the reviews of Ebert and various individuals in this thread. I wasn't disappointed (nor did I leave unaroused -- seriously, this movie is vivaciously erotic and not in a teasing sort of way). If the adrenalien rush it provided was hindered in any way, it's because the first forty minutes are so consistently electric that, after the first sex scene, I felt somewhat exhausted. I am now about to delve into some research on the political climate the film takes place in, since I don't know the first thing about it.

I want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

Quote from: Chest RockwellI want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

NC-17 rated movies never get wide releases.

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: Chest RockwellI want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

NC-17 rated movies never get wide releases.

Well I guess that's better than seeing it come here and then not being able to see it because of my short 5'9" stature.

Quote from: Chest Rockwell

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: Chest RockwellI want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

NC-17 rated movies never get wide releases.

Well I guess that's better than seeing it come here and then not being able to see it because of my short 5'9" stature.

They'd probably giggle and send you to Eurotrip.

I must say, I haven't had a cinematic experience like this since Magnolia... from the opening voice over prologue I was smiling from ear-to-ear.  This movie encapsulates everything I love about film.  Godardian most definitely put it best, so I'll spare you the long-winded review, but i have to say i was completely blown away. Like I said, I haven't been this excited or inspired by a movie since I saw magnolia.  It left me completely delirious.

Its playing, with print ads, here in oklahoma (specifically tulsa, where I drove two hours to see it), and this is the buckle of the bible belt, so hopefully it will play successfully across the country.  the theatre was packed too, and unlike the passion, no one was angered or shocked to the point of leaving early.  Most of the patrons seemed to react in the same way I did; I looked around and everyone was grinning, laughing, gasping, and just enjoying the spectacular experience of seeing a hypnotically wonderful film.

My God, this movie is INCREDIBLE.

I've come to conclude that those who hail The Passion of the Christ as the first great and most important film of the 21st century haven't seen THIS film.  First, though, I must admit that this was my first experience with a Bertolucci film.  But when a virigin to a director's work, I can't think of a better way to have had my cherry popped.

Godardian, Ghostboy, and Film Student have all expressed similar thoughts and mine will be no different.  I don't think I've ever been this giddy about a movie since, well, ever.  The Dreamers couldn't possibly be better.  I'm convinced that it's one of the greatest films ever made... that said, one must take into consideration that I am still trying to catch my breath, attempting to recooperate from my experience... but I guess in the end it's all futile.  And to tell you the truth I don't ever want it to end.

A famous Truffaut quote I'm sure all of you know is this: "I demand that a film express either the joy of making cinema or the agony of making cinema. I am not at all interested in anything in between."  In no other film have I felt such a love for cinema that expresses the "joy of making cinema" as vividly and powerfully as The Dreamers.  It pulsates with love, passion, obsession, completely and utter desire for cinema.  I found it amusing that Theo quoted Godard's statement about Nicholas Ray ("Nicholas Ray is cinema"...and hell yea he is) in a film that is pure cinema.  I would like to say that Bertolucci is motherfucking cinema.  If ever I see a better representation of both my passion of cinema and why I love it, I'm not sure if I could handle it.  In fact, I was glad The Dreamers started to slow down a bit after the best 40 minutes of my life.. had that not happend I would've had a seizure.  

To list the specific things I loved would be in impossible task.. or would require me to describe in full detail the movie in its entirety.  Most of you know about the great things this film has to offer and to those who don't, I'd MUCH rather leave it for you to experience on your own.  But something I love about Bertolucci's masterpiece is that it makes cinema feel alive... alive in the most monumental way.  Watching The Dreamers was like watching the resurrection of the masters who made the art we love what it is today, as well as the rejuvenation of the legends that still live today.  It is a spiritual cleansing for any and all lovers of cinema.  

I guess all that was really general... but I come baring the truth.  I'm sure others who have had the good fortune of seeing the film can atest to that.  But on a personal leve... the film achieves a sort of Bunuelian surrealism and dream logic that completely blew me away (along with just about everything else in the film).  Lately I've been trying to see as much Bunuel as I can, and I absolutely love the man and I could definitely see his hand in The Dreamers... or at least I think so.  Yet another reason I love the film.

All I can reallly say is that I believe that The Dreamers is perfect... it was for me anyway.  If there's anyting wrong with it, I can't see the flaws.

I doubt I will see a better film this year.  I haven't had a film speak to me and resonate so deeply as this one has since I first saw Sunrise.

Thank you, Bernardo.

damn my age

alright alright, i'm going to see this now...

Quote from: Pedro the Wombatdamn my age

Where do you live? I ask because I just turned 17 this past Sunday (which is when I saw it) and shouldn't have been let in according the WONDERFUL MPAA's standards.  But I'll go on if (and only if!) you live in Southern California.

Quote from: Pedro the Wombatdamn my age

Just sneak in. So many easy ways of doing it. Everyone does it and the only thing they do if they catch you is just kick you out. Sneak in! And if you're unsure about how to sneak in, then make a thread about it in Idle Chatter. I'm sure everyone has a technique they are willing to share.

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet

Quote from: Pedro the Wombatdamn my age

Just sneak in. So many easy ways of doing it. Everyone does it and the only thing they do if they catch you is just kick you out. Sneak in! And if you're unsure about how to sneak in, then make a thread about it in Idle Chatter. I'm sure everyone has a technique they are willing to share.

well, yeah, that's probably what i'll end up doing.  they'll probably be surprised i went to such an arty thing anyway.

oh, have you seen this yet, gt?

This weekend......this weekend.

Haha - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309987/.  Under Genre this is listed as a "Family" picture.  Looks like someone at IMDb is having a little fun.  Great.

I saw this Friday night.  I was a bit annoyed in the theatre I was in as the sound was horrible, causing me to miss out on some key bits of dialogue.  It almost made me wish the movie was entirely in French instead of just partially, because that would've helped it more thanks to the subtitles.  I sat in the back and saw four-ish people walk out, after the first 40 minutes involving the most graphic of sex scenes, fittingly enough.  I loved this film despite its flaws, which I will admit to it having.  The thing about this film is there are so many moments of greatness that overshadow its flaws.  Little bits of dialogue that are so telling (like Matthew lashing out at Isabelle when she wants to shave his pubic hair), shots that show the director and cinematographer really know what they're doing, and the whole mood of the movie in general.  The idea of these young adults acting so childlike, yet not really childish, and all of them oblivious to the world around them and naive in their own way.  I would've liked more explanation of the history behind the riots, and a more concrete resolution rather than an ellipsis, but I guess that can be forgiven because of the overall effect which this film creates.

The music was great.  I really was sucked into the movie immediately because of it and the opening sequence of shots.  Seeing this film reminded me how many films I hadn't seen, and though I wasn't too fond of A bout de souffle, it was cool to see it referenced, as it was probably the only film reference I was immediately familiar with.  There are two sides to the argument of whether the interweaving of shots was a gimmick or more than that.  The friend I was with didn't really like the film and seemed to think of that and the overt sexuality both as gimmicks.  I'm undecided, and there are some things that really needn't be analyzed to death, especially when the effect they create is such a nice, euphoric one.

One of those giddy moments, odd as it may seem to me, was in the bathroom when the three are in the tub, with the three-sided mirror on the side.  How that is set up, with the reflections basically shifting where the three of them in the frame, well, I can't put my finger on it, but it's such a nice touch and I don't know why.  Normally, shots such as these are amateur, but the way this one is done really elevates the scene to that of a future archetype.

There are little things like this sprinkled all throughout the film, such as the way Isabelle's virginity was revealed and lost, her having a period while sleeping in the tub with the boys, and the way Isabelle's and Theo's parents find them which really adds to this overall ambiguous, euphoric tone.  It conveys, I think, a longing these three have for the best of both worlds.  This dream they have of a certain type of life, a wanting to remain as children while exploring adult situations and dodging the realities of life re: the riots.  They are all naive, even Matthew, the most level-headed one, the anti-violent one, when he cries out as the twins start to "rape" him, saying "I won't resist!"  Obviously there's a lot here Bertolucci wants you to think about, and it is a bit messy, but no film is perfect, and it is usually the messy, reaching ones that dare to touch greatness.  I can't wait for the DVD.  This is one I'll revisit over and over again through the years.  **** (9/10)

has this film hit a wide release yet?

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: Chest RockwellI want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

NC-17 rated movies never get wide releases.

damn. that was asked at the top of this page.

that's sum wack reading skills filmboy.

with this and the Be Cool ratner thing, i gotta ask.. hav u suffered any head injuries lately?

Quote from: Chest Rockwell

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: Chest RockwellI want to see this sooo much. Is there a chance it will ever see a wide release?

NC-17 rated movies never get wide releases.

Well I guess that's better than seeing it come here and then not being able to see it because of my short 5'9" stature.

By whose standards is 5'9" SHORT?

I'm 5'7", and I don't feel so short. I guess 5'9" is "average" and I'm a bit shorter than average... but I'm still much taller than Tom Cruise, Madonna, or Ben Stiller.

Hahaha, I have a buddy who's about 5'8". Me, I'm 6'1". Now, people are always calling me 'tall', and him 'average', I think because of those stupid surveys that put men between 5'7"-5'11". I don't know where these surveys find their midgets, but when I walk around in a public place, besides old men (and Asians), all guys TOWER over me. My friend is particularily touchy about this, because of his so-called 'average' height, he feels he is owed more company among other 'average' height people, so he doesn't look so short.


But I digress...

:oops:

I'm really angry. Yesterday I tried to sneak into the Dreamers and was caught inside the theater, so close to my goal. I just typed up an awesome and incredibly lengthy account of the whole thing but then my computer fucked up and erased it all, so now I'm even angrier than before.

pfft, kids today...

The Dreamers, first and foremost, is a fantastic tribute to classic cinema and classic acting.  From the discussions regarding Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin to mimicking dances with Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, this films shows the respect that Bertilucci has for the classics.

Secondly,  the inner conflict of Danielle is fantastically laid out without giving us too much information.  I loved that the end of this film allowed the viewer to use his/her imagination to explain the decision that Danielle makes.

Ultimately, this is a simple story involving a one complex decision that the centerpiece character must make.  Fortunately for some and unfortunately for others, she makes the unlikely decision to follow what her mind tells her to do as opposed to following what her heart tells her to do.  Though it was not necessarily a decision I would have made, I admired the girl for making it just the same.

One downfall, however, was that the nudity in the movie, in my opinion, was not entirely necessary.  I feel that some was important.  For example, when the girl loses her virginity, it was important for us to notice the impact that it made on her.  However, the naked bathtub scenes were just for the purpose of showing the "hot girl" naked again.  

Finally, I thought this was a great film that showed both tribute and class in every aspect of it's existence.  I would recommend this movie to anyone with a respect for the art of film.

--Pictures are Pals

Quote from: Pictures are PalsFinally, I know I have probably bored all of you with my opinions on the film, but tough shit.  You didn't have to read it if you didn't want to.  Bottom line:  This movie doesn't suck.  That is about as good a review summary as you will ever get from me.

wtf. relax dude, a week into ur posting career and already ur having paranoid dellusions.

apparently one of my statements was offensive, so I edited a bit to fix it.  Sorry.

Quote from: Pubrick

Quote from: Pictures are PalsFinally, I know I have probably bored all of you with my opinions on the film, but tough shit.  You didn't have to read it if you didn't want to.  Bottom line:  This movie doesn't suck.  That is about as good a review summary as you will ever get from me.

wtf. relax dude, a week into ur posting career and already ur having paranoid dellusions.

cut him some slack, P. Its his first week of posting. as he eases into the place, feels up the people (and 2% female population) and realize how discarded his opinion really is, he'll be fine. Besides, he's a close buddy of mine (yes, from the real world) and he's cool. After 100 posts, assault him.

i'm not assaulting anyone, dont' start that bullshit.

is his reaction not bizarre? i didn't know he was ur buddy, that explains little, it's just weird that in the middle of a review that was otherwise fine he goes all defensive, when no one has said anything.

i'm weary of those kinds of attitudes, cos like u said when he actually finds reason to be that defensive i'm afraid it'll escalate to unfortunate levels.

Isn't this website supposed to be mindless bitching about movies and not mindless bitching about other people?  I just won't post anymore if people are going to get all riled up.  It's no hair off my sack. I just wanted people to know that I enjoyed a movie very much and sometimes when this happens I get a little over-excited.  I already apologized once and retracted that statement, so let's just drop it.  I know I came across sounding like a horse's ass, so there is no need to argue anymore.

Please read my review again.

It's OK, Pal. You'll soon realize no one reads anything around here anyway. The only long and boring posts people read around here come from either Godardian or The Gold[en] Trumpet. Anyone else is just wasting time. That said, I enjoyed your review, and it just makes me want to see it more (and more angry that I was caught.  :evil: )

Quote from: Pictures are PalsIsn't this website supposed to be mindless bitching about movies and not mindless bitching about other people?  I just won't post anymore if people are going to get all riled up.  It's no hair off my sack. I just wanted people to know that I enjoyed a movie very much and sometimes when this happens I get a little over-excited.  I already apologized once and retracted that statement, so let's just drop it.  I know I came across sounding like a horse's ass, so there is no need to argue anymore.

no one is bitching about anyone. well u were but now it's cleared up and there's nothing to argue about.

i agree. let's chill and continue the good reviewing. i only posted after ur retraction to clear up GT's argument-perpetuating "assault" comment.

for those just tuning in, everything after PaP's review is meaningless.

It's hard to review a movie when it's only played in local theatres for, oh, say, a fucking week.  There is no culture in the suburbs.  I'm dying to see this.

I feel your pain Thrindle.  I live in a small town in Upper Michigan.  Most people in the United States think we are part of Canada and we rarely get good films here. When we do, they are only here for a week.  I have wanted to see The Barbarian Invasions for a while and it still hasn't come here, so I know how that goes.

Quote from: Pubricki agree. let's chill and continue the good reviewing. i only posted after ur retraction to clear up GT's argument-perpetuating "assault" comment.

For the record, what I said was a joke. My humor continues to allude...

I finally saw the Dreamers though. It was a pretty bad film overall. Interest to the situation where the three people explore sex so casually didn't elevate it beyond the very unbelievable plot set up. When Eva Green got naked, I was happy. By the last time she got naked, I was tired of seeing her body. Too much casual nudity for even a soft core porno. Of course, the film was trying to be more.

Artistically, I saw a love letter to 60s cinema beyond the characters quoting films. Almost all the situations seemed to mirror one film or another. The dramatic threesome tangle mirrored Jules et Jim, the exploration of sex Last Tango in Paris. Eva Green seemed like she was hired on the spot because she replicated Jeanne Moreau so well (role was written for a young Moreau anyways). The first sex scene where blood was rubbed over the face hinted at Cries and Whispers. The dramatic purposes was different in both films, but the same in the effect of shock and awe.

I really enjoyed the movie at the beginning when it was running though the history and life of times I frankly wish I was apart of. It was a great feeling of nostalgia. Then the film did try to become something but in the lackluster story of what I thought was an easy way to explore sex, I saw conventional set ups and pretensious ideas. There was no heart at the center of this film that intrigued me.

Well I just saw it (my first NC-17 film), and I liked it. I saw some real respect/love for the times and the cinema therein. I don't know, I can't quite explain yet what made me like it. I have to think about it some.

Just came back from this an hour ago. Got to say I liked it, yet it was a let down. Too high on the expectations I guess. All the teeny tiny details and nods to various movies were the great parts, as was the music, and the film's ability to make me feel like I was there, in the sixties (or ache inside, for not having been able to be there). But at the end, that was about it. The sex was nice, but I went out of the theater thinking more about the movies and the era The Dreamers was honoring, than the film itself.

here is a page with 3 pics from the film.
Eva Green looks amazing in that 2nd pic.
i guess she has on long black gloves in that pic and since it makes her arms disappear into the shadows, it reminds me of a Greek statue.
i don't really know how to make a pic appear on a different page, so here is the link:
http://www.cinefile.biz/dreamer.htm

The first shot, the one with that set of three connected mirrors, that's the one I was referring to, one of the scenes that really blew my mind as I was watching this film.  The film has already come and gone in my town, though, so here's hoping for a quick DVD release.  I really want to see this thing again and again.  That Venus De Milo shot was amazing, too.

Yea, I loved both shots quite a bit.

That three-mirrors shot is, indeed, perhaps the most memorable of all the beautifully composed shots in the this beautiful film...

Still my favorite of the year (out of the new movies, that is).

I don't think this has been posted so here it goes...
Source: DigitalBits.com
Bernardo Bertolucci's The Dreamers (NC-17 version) for 7/13. The Dreamers will include anamorphic widescreen video, Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, audio commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci, writer Gilbert Adair and producer Jeremy Thomas, 2 featurettes (Events of May '68 and The Making of The Dreamers), Michael Pitt's Hey Joe music video, the theatrical trailer and trailers for other Fox titles.

Quote from: SiliasRubyBernardo Bertolucci's The Dreamers (NC-17 version) for 7/13. The Dreamers will include anamorphic widescreen video, Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, audio commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci, writer Gilbert Adair and producer Jeremy Thomas, 2 featurettes (Events of May '68 and The Making of The Dreamers), Michael Pitt's Hey Joe music video, the theatrical trailer and trailers for other Fox titles.

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A standard theatrical cut will also be available from the same day, with identical features.

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Oh man, don't you just love the colour changes for each case? And the small little imagine on the top left hand side that's different.. How subtle.

altough i would've prefered the UK cover on the DVD, this isn't bad at all.

And the Rated cover looks better than the Unrated one....  :(

Since when was this movie a "thriller"?

Honestly, they have to stop putting review quotes on boxcovers.

Quote from: cronopioAnd the Rated cover looks better than the Unrated one....  :(

Well, I see the unrated one looking like 21 Grams. And the theatrical cut looks to very much like 24 Hour Party People, colour-wise.

Quote from: SoNowThenSince when was this movie a "thriller"?

Honestly, they have to stop putting review quotes on boxcovers.

It is hardly "steamy," "erotic," OR a "thriller" in the cover-blurb sense (where they mean, "It's just like Basic Instinct!"). This is total Miramax-ism, where they create horrifically ugly and misleading cover art and take blurbs all out of context to make you think Velvet Goldmine is a murder mystery or that Exotica is sofctore porn.

I like the image okay, hate the blurbs. I will, of course, be buying it.

Well, it was kinda steamy...

There should be a law that prohibited blurbs.

The only quotes that I like are by the filmmakers themselves. For example, in my Region 2 DVD of Persona, there's a quote by Ingmar that says something like "I feel that with 'Persona' I was able to graze those boundaries that only Cinema is capable of."

That's not the exact quote.

Quote from: cronopioThere should be a law that prohibited blurbs.

Every blurb should say, "Best thing since sliced bread."

Everytime I think of a blurb, I think of that part from The Critic:

"I laughed, I cried"  -- A Manic Depressive

Quote from: SoNowThenEverytime I think of a blurb, I think of that part from The Critic:

"I laughed, I cried"  -- A Manic Depressive

Seriously, I'M POSITIVE there's an algorithm that generates those silly quotes.

Quote from: SoNowThenEverytime I think of a blurb, I think of that part from The Critic:

"I laughed, I cried"  -- A Manic Depressive

Even worse, from Family Guy, something like: Dyslexic Film Society presents Chevy Chase in Feltch.

how can anything be better than this? i spose that's nostalgia.. right down to the bittersweet end.

buying this ASAP, i know the DVD details were posted on the previous page, has there been a new thread with news of an earlier release?

I'm confused about the two releases -- I thought the uncut NC-17 version WAS the standard theatrical version.

I guess one of them is the version that was shown at Sundance that was going to get an R rating before Fox Searchlight came to their senses?

That's something I was wondering about, too.  I don't even know why Fox is bothering with the R-rated version at all.  People who would even want to see this film in the first place won't want the cut version.  Then again, there is Blockbuster to consider.

I just saw this movie yesterday and I think that its just wrong. During Matthew and Isabelle's sex sence, they didn't use a condom. What happens if I had taken my little brother to watch this with me and he sees that they don't use a condom and so he thinks that its ok not to use one. Why won't they think of the children?



right out from the IMDB forums.

I'm a stupid moron with an ugly face and big butt and my butt smells and I like to kiss my own butt.


right out of the imdb forums.

troll. hahaha

but yeah,  after this dvd, there's no good reason of getting another dvd in the world.

I am offended!!!!!!!!!! I AM OFFENDED!!!!!!

just kidding

Quote from: cronopioI just saw this movie yesterday and I think that its just wrong. During Matthew and Isabelle's sex sence, they didn't use a condom. What happens if I had taken my little brother to watch this with me and he sees that they don't use a condom and so he thinks that its ok not to use one. Why won't they think of the children?



right out from the IMDB forums.

That guy was joking, it was a pretty good joke too.

Anyway, this movie finally made it's way to this island. I was pretty impressed, mainly because it has had some pretty bad reviews in Portugal.
I don't want to repeat a lot of what has been said, I really really liked this film. It made me want to watch alll those films that they talk about, mostly band a part.

July 13th sure came quickly.  Anyone gonna get this today?

I went to rent this today and they wouldn't let me.

LOL!

I'm gonna try to go pick it up at Blockbuster. My local store carries it.

Quote from: InsomniacLOL!

I'm gonna try to go pick it up at Blockbuster. My local store carries it.

just keep in mind you're getting the censored butchered rated R version (made specifically for Blockbuster video), not the NC-17 version that went to theatres.

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: InsomniacLOL!

I'm gonna try to go pick it up at Blockbuster. My local store carries it.

just keep in mind you're getting the censored butchered rated R version (made specifically for Blockbuster video), not the NC-17 version that went to theatres.

that's what they wanted to to rent... I refused.

Hmm that's funny. This store had the Y Tu Mama Tambien Unrated version and yet they won't carry the original version of The Dreamers. Must be the fatal NC-17 rating on the dvd. Unrated might've been debatable.

Blockbuster is the Wal-Mart of video stores.  Don't waste your time or money.  Don't know where you live, so I don't know if you have any smaller chains.  Vis-Art Video is a great one, though I don't know how widespread they are.  All else fails though, just use Netflix for that kind of thing in the future.  No more hassle.

i saw this went i spents my money and bought it tuesday and i even watched it that night while wearing my khaki shorts and an fitted baseball cap eating icecream with a spoon and milk [like an unmixed milkshake] then i would took the spoon and layed it on my chest..the spoon felt neat and cool whilst laying on my chest.........but anyway,

besides writing my thoughts down i will let the others do it for me whose feelings/thoughts/orgasms resembled mine...........

Quote from: mutinycoEva Green will leave people drooling for hours afterward.

Quote from: SoNowThenthe last 15 minutes or so really brought everything together nicely, and proved that he did have a greater point, after all. Music, although decent, was too Hendrix/Doors/Joplin heavy. I woulda liked Dylan/Beatles/Stones

>right on man, highlight was queen jane approximately

Quote from: godardianbeautiful camerawork and cinematography...
I was astounded, astonished, exhalted.
...A paean to cinema for all the cinephiles... a touching, bittersweet, lovely memento of the passion and freedom and exhilaration of youth...

>i want to point out that whats in bold is the bottom line of what thi sfilm is about and how i felt inflicted upon me.....also, what godardian wrote would be a proper critic quote slapped on the cover of the dvd........

Quote from: GhostboyI wasn't disappointed (nor did I leave unaroused -- seriously, this movie is vivaciously erotic and not in a teasing sort of way). If the adrenalien rush it provided was hindered in any way, it's because the first forty minutes are so consistently electric that, after the first sex scene, I felt somewhat exhausted.

Quote from: Film StudentMy God, this movie is INCREDIBLE.

Quote from: samsong... the film achieves a sort of Bunuelian surrealism and dream logic that completely blew me away (along with just about everything else in the film).

>thats exactly the vibe i got........

Quote from: ono.bot.opoeiaI would've liked more explanation of the history behind the riots, and a more concrete resolution rather than an ellipsis, but I guess that can be forgiven because of the overall effect which this film creates.

Quote from: Pictures are Pals"One downfall, however, was that the nudity in the movie, in my opinion, was not entirely necessary. I feel that some was important.

>although i dont mind looking at boobies....and close ups of a unilateral vortexing vagina, some was not needed to fuel the film..........

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetWhen Eva Green got naked, I was happy.

Quote from: Pubricki spose that's nostalgia.. right down to the bittersweet end.

> i will also conclude on this .the final end/image was brilliant w/ the credits....i just stood their and hovered/reflected what i watched.......[SPOILER]............i cant believe a bench could be so haunting/poweful...................

the end.

Can someone that has a Screen Capture majigy please take a screen of the Venus de Milo shot (I'm sure you all know which one it is, the one where Isabelle is in the dark doorway with the black dining gloves) for me? I don't have any means to take captures and I need this shot. I'll pay you with some of my post count  8) .

Quote from: themodernage02just keep in mind you're getting the censored butchered rated R version (made specifically for Blockbuster video), not the NC-17 version that went to theatres.

I saw the NC-17 version in the theater, and I saw the R-rated version (courtesy: Blockbuster) a couple days ago.  For those that are worried, there was not much cut out.  I was guessing about 30-45 seconds.

SPOILER There was nothing integral to the plot that was cut.  The scenes in the kitchen were shortend (closeups of Matthew's penis, sex, bloody kiss) but not cut.  Closeups of Eva Green's pubic hair was shortened a few seconds.  The Venus De Milo oral sex scene was shortend a little, too.  END SPOILERS

But... if you're like me, you will be annoyed.

P.S.  Did anyone else crack up at the video of Michael Pitt's version of "Hey Joe"?

Quote from: PwaybloeP.S.  Did anyone else crack up at the video of Michael Pitt's version of "Hey Joe"?

Haven't bought the DVD yet, so I haven't seen this. Crack up as in laughing with or laughing at?

Quote from: Chest RockwellCan someone that has a Screen Capture majigy please take a screen of the Venus de Milo shot (I'm sure you all know which one it is, the one where Isabelle is in the dark doorway with the black dining gloves) for me? I don't have any means to take captures and I need this shot. I'll pay you with some of my post count  8) .

this is from a link i posted a few pages back, i just figured out how to post images a few weeks ago.....i never even noticed the "message body:" portion under the "subject" line

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Quote from: bigideas

Quote from: Chest RockwellCan someone that has a Screen Capture majigy please take a screen of the Venus de Milo shot (I'm sure you all know which one it is, the one where Isabelle is in the dark doorway with the black dining gloves) for me? I don't have any means to take captures and I need this shot. I'll pay you with some of my post count  8) .

this is from a link i posted a few pages back, i just figured out how to post images a few weeks ago.....i never even noticed the "message body:" portion under the "subject" line

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That's rather funny. They covered her top. I'd prefer an uncensored shot, but I suppose I probably should use a censored shot for this assignment, anyway.

I haven't read this thread, nor do I care to.  The best part of this movie was Eva Green.  Stunning.  Gorgeous.  Beautiful.  Ingenue.

Having said all of this, I never finished the movie.  Thrindle, canoodling expert, got bored.

Quote from: ThrindleI haven't read this thread, nor do I care to.  The best part of this movie was Eva Green.  Stunning.  Gorgeous.  Beautiful.  Ingenue.

Having said all of this, I never finished the movie.  Thrindle, canoodling expert, got bored.

I agree that Eva Green was good. I think you're incorrect as per your opinion of the film itself. I thought it a beautiful film and aside from that I found it fun trying to catch all the references (besides the obvious ones).

And lastly I think we need to give this 'expert in the art of canoodling' thing a rest. Canoodle was a charming word when we first introduced it to xixax, but now the word's getting overplayed and losing its novelty. Peace.

Quote from: Pwaybloe
P.S.  Did anyone else crack up at the video of Michael Pitt's version of "Hey Joe"?

hahahahaha!! right on man  .i am glad i am not the only one who thought that the video/remake was phucking stupid......i know this is cliched but he really doesnt need to quit his day job.........

the worse part is when he starts "getting into it" and over acts the song like hes performing in a high school battle of the bands.......

so you're saying that Venus shot above was digitally altered?
they did quite a job then!

Quote from: Chest RockwellAnd lastly I think we need to give this 'expert in the art of canoodling' thing a rest. Canoodle was a charming word when we first introduced it to xixax, but now the word's getting overplayed and losing its novelty. Peace.

*Pat's Chest's head* It's OK, really. I understand where you're coming from. I almost got mad and acted in a vindictive manner, but see, if this matter really has no importance to XIXAX at all... in your opinion, then why reply to my thread with such a tone? I think I know the answer... and not to butt heads... but, its jealousy. It really is.   :P

I've made no attempt to pride myself on being the champion of canoodling (well... maybe a little), but merely to reply to what everyone else says about me. So please, lay off and just allow me a sense of personality and uniqueness on the board - just as everyone else here seems to have.  Replying like you did does a disservice to everyone on the board, not just canoodlers like me.

Quote from: Thrindle*Pat's Chest's head* It's OK, really. I understand where you're coming from. I almost got mad and acted in a vindictive manner, but see, if this matter really has no importance to XIXAX at all... in your opinion, then why reply to my thread with such a tone? I think I know the answer... and not to butt heads... but, its jealousy. It really is.   :P

I've made no attempt to pride myself on being the champion of canoodling (well... maybe a little), but merely to reply to what everyone else says about me. So please, lay off and just allow me a sense of personality and uniqueness on the board - just as everyone else here seems to have.  Replying like you did does a disservice to everyone on the board, not just canoodlers like me.

Classy as always, Thrindle.  Kudos!   :yabbse-thumbup:

Quoteand not to butt heads... but, its jealousy. It really is.  

And he's jealous of what? That he's not the xixax cyber slut?

Quote from: StefenAnd he's jealous of what? That he's not the xixax cyber slut?

I hope your manhood has been validated for today.

Quote from: bigideasso you're saying that Venus shot above was digitally altered?
they did quite a job then!

Yes, I think I've decided to use that one. Thanks!

And Thrindle, I don't know what you're talking about. You presented an opinion. I disagreed, presenting my own personal opinion of the film briefly. I never once undermined your opinion of it by insisting it be wrong or by insulting your intelligence or anything.

And the canoodle comment wasn't directed at you specifically. The whole board has been using it a little too excessively. You just happen to be the entity with which its most associated on this board, so I put the comment under your use of it. You seem to think I'm attacking you, but really I'm not. And despite your 'efforts' to not reply vindictively, I can't help but notice you mocking me during your entire post, for whatever reason. Anyways, sorry.

Quote from: Thrindle

Quote from: StefenAnd he's jealous of what? That he's not the xixax cyber slut?

I hope your manhood has been validated for today.

Look at you, "validating" my point by mentioning my manhood.  :laughing2:  :laughing2:  :laughing2:

Quote from: NEON MERCURY
the worse part is when he starts "getting into it" and over acts the song like hes performing in a high school battle of the bands.......

Yeah.  And then Bertolucci cuts to the producer, who's getting into it, and hey, look over here... the bassist is getting into it.  And, hey, don't forget to cut to Michael looking like a New Kid on the Block strutting down the street.

Quote from: Chest Rockwell

Quote from: bigideasso you're saying that Venus shot above was digitally altered?
they did quite a job then!

Yes, I think I've decided to use that one. Thanks!

And Thrindle, I don't know what you're talking about. You presented an opinion. I disagreed, presenting my own personal opinion of the film briefly. I never once undermined your opinion of it by insisting it be wrong or by insulting your intelligence or anything.

And the canoodle comment wasn't directed at you specifically. The whole board has been using it a little too excessively. You just happen to be the entity with which its most associated on this board, so I put the comment under your use of it. You seem to think I'm attacking you, but really I'm not. And despite your 'efforts' to not reply vindictively, I can't help but notice you mocking me during your entire post, for whatever reason. Anyways, sorry.

classy as always, chest. kudos.

u've come a long way.  :yabbse-thumbup:

who'll be the brave individual that'll give kudos to stephen (and call him classy)

Just finished watching this. Terrific movie. Toward the end I got a little impatient with the brother and sister and kept wondering how the movie was gonna end. But the ending makes sense and works for the movie and characters.

anybody else feel like the ending was playing on matt's saying that the director is like a criminal, the whole voyeurism thing, and that ending the movie right there without resolving a whole lot of issues was  sort of bertolucci getting the hell out of there, you know, fleeing the scene of the crime before he got caught?

SPOILER WARNING!

I'm not sure how much association the ending has with the director's personal beliefs or him as a person. But I think the ending works because of the characters and their belief systems. Eventually their political differences gets in the way of their relationship. The main theme (or moral) of the movie is that you can't change people. The Michael Pitt character tries to change the brother and sister's relationship by taking her out on a date and making everything normal. He also tries to change their political way of thinking too. But none of it works. She wants to stay with her brother and doesn't want their relationship to change. And at the end of the movie the brother and sister run into the violence because they want to and the Michael Pitt character walks away from the violence because he wants to.

Quote from: Mellow Fellowanybody else feel like the ending was playing on matt's saying that the director is like a criminal, the whole voyeurism thing, and that ending the movie right there without resolving a whole lot of issues was  sort of bertolucci getting the hell out of there, you know, fleeing the scene of the crime before he got caught?

SPOILERS
I don't think so. I agree more with Insomniac. The reason it ended so abruptly was that the 'dream' was shattered, literally and figuratively, by that rock from the outside world. The reason it's called The Dreamers is that the kids are dreaming within their little apartment, and turning away from what's happening outside--their eyes are closed. The thing is that Matthew, removed from the enclosed world of the twins, is more conservative than they. When he makes love to Isabelle he more or less succumbs to their world, though he knows what he's doing is wrong, which leads him to try and change them. It doesn't work. The parents witness them naked on top of each other, and when Isabelle realizes they found out, she tries to kill herself (remember when she told Matthew 'I'd kill myself' when asked what she would do if the 'rents were to find out?'). Then suddenly it's all interrupted by that stone from the outside world, and they finally escape the dream. Matthew isn't as outspoken (liberal, whatever) as Theo, so he walks away. Theo wants to fight the good fight, so he throws the molotov cocktail. Isabelle just doesn't want to leave Theo, since she's had him her entire life and is so closely bound to him that she never wants to leave him, so she stays with him. At least that's how I saw it.
SPOILERS

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetI finally saw the Dreamers though. It was a pretty bad film overall. Interest to the situation where the three people explore sex so casually didn't elevate it beyond the very unbelievable plot set up. When Eva Green got naked, I was happy. By the last time she got naked, I was tired of seeing her body. Too much casual nudity for even a soft core porno. Of course, the film was trying to be more.

Artistically, I saw a love letter to 60s cinema beyond the characters quoting films. Almost all the situations seemed to mirror one film or another. The dramatic threesome tangle mirrored Jules et Jim, the exploration of sex Last Tango in Paris. Eva Green seemed like she was hired on the spot because she replicated Jeanne Moreau so well (role was written for a young Moreau anyways). The first sex scene where blood was rubbed over the face hinted at Cries and Whispers. The dramatic purposes was different in both films, but the same in the effect of shock and awe.

I really enjoyed the movie at the beginning when it was running though the history and life of times I frankly wish I was apart of. It was a great feeling of nostalgia. Then the film did try to become something but in the lackluster story of what I thought was an easy way to explore sex, I saw conventional set ups and pretensious ideas. There was no heart at the center of this film that intrigued me.

wow, thats exactly how i feel.  bertoluccis 0 for 2 for me.  it was porno for cinephiles.  after a while watching these kids with no responsibilities sit around and do whatever the hell they wanted to just made me sick.  like, if you're hungry, did you ever consider getting a job?  theyre eating out of the fucking trash waiting for another check to show up?  i hate these people.  the ending was also pretty lazy and pointless.

Quote from: Chest RockwellI thought it a beautiful film and aside from that I found it fun trying to catch all the references (besides the obvious ones).

can you even call it a film 'reference' if theyre actually showing you the clips from the other movies?  i mean, how could you miss it?  by going to the bathroom?

Quote from: Pwaybloe

Quote from: themodernage02just keep in mind you're getting the censored butchered rated R version (made specifically for Blockbuster video), not the NC-17 version that went to theatres.

I saw the NC-17 version in the theater, and I saw the R-rated version (courtesy: Blockbuster) a couple days ago.  For those that are worried, there was not much cut out.  I was guessing about 30-45 seconds.
SPOILER There was nothing integral to the plot that was cut.  The closeups of Matthew's penis, sex, bloody kiss were shortend but not cut.  END SPOILERS

on a personal note, i wish i had seen the R rated version.  i hate michael pitt and now i've seen his genitals.

Quote from: themodernage02
on a personal note, i wish i had seen the R rated version.  i hate michael pitt and now i've seen his genitals.

but dude, hes got two bodacious testicles of equal porportions... :(

also: i'm a little surprised mutinyco liked it especially after his rant on Kill Bill 2 and the creation of the 'originality vs. reference' thread.  i wonder what he would have done if tarantino had pointed out his references by having his characters talk about htem and inserting clips from those films.

i really liked the opening credits and music (is this the Jimi Hendrix song listed in the credits?). the movie was really great the first 40 or so minutes........then it took a totally different turn when Matthew saw the twins naked in bed together (if the twins slept together naked all the time, how would the parents not see them once? you know, look in on them like Matthew did). the film really had that vibe of a love for film and i was really interested in the cinemateque(sp?) and riots, etc. i thought the speech where Matthew impresses the dad with the lighter was pretty bad. i don't see the point of diving off into the sex. i don't know if the director did it to attract guys our age so they would hear/see the ideals at the beginning and end of the film or what. it's interesting that the almost hour long documentary on the DVD only speaks of the ideals and totally ignores the sex.

i agreewith everyone, Eva Green is beautiful. i think she's prettiest when she has on the most clothes actually (think the shot of her walking into the room while Theo wakes up Matthew on the phone).

p.s. i wonder if the michael pitt Hey Joe was something they did to sell Van Sant on casting him for the grunge movie he's working on now.

p.p.s. has anyone seen Godard's La Chinoise?

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does this remind anyone else of underground by emir kusturica?

i'm not familiar with that but let me just say i saw the dreamers for the first time last night and i loved it beyond belief. it really is perfect. reminded me so much of when i was in europe and the feelings i had when i was there.

my favorite of the year i think.

rustinglass i really want your opinion

that particular shot reminds me of some scenes in underground, but the film itself is very different; while they may have shlightly similar themes, the dreamers is much more centered on time, space and the characters  than underground. However, I find that the values in the dreamers are much more universal than the other, because underground is ultimately about the story of that group of people in those fifty years, and how those character-types determined the fate of Jugoslavia, so we can't really relate to any of the characters in underground and we feel shut out of the film, unlike the dreamers.

Now, that picture reminds me of one of the first scenes, when Marko sets up some mirrors look at the whore's ass while she's bathing.

It also reminds me of this scene (which I already posted in this (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=4490) thread)
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Quote from: rustinglassNow, that picture reminds me of one of the first scenes, when Marko sets up some mirrors look at the whore's ass while she's bathing.

yes; this is what i meant

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The Dreamers is truly a film for cinephiles. Any film where an American, a twin brother and sister watch films at one of the best arthouses in the world and then go back to their apartment for sex is truly every film geek’s dream. But though The Dreamers may sound seamy it is certainly one of the most beautiful and touching films you will see this year. This is no small part due to its auteur director, Bernardo Bertolucci. Bertolucci has likened films to way Akira Kurosawa did, as dreams. That is certainly the way this film is. Set during the 1968 Paris student riots the trio is played by Michael Pitt, Louis Garrel and Eva Green, quote film as any film student would, race through the Louvre as the characters in Godard’s Band of Outsiders, have tense political discussions naked in the bath this is.

Bertolucci has never been one to shy away from exposing both the inner and outer beauty and flaws of his characters. He is most famous for Maria Schneider’s tense nude scenes with Marlon Brando in Last Tango in Paris, the spit he blew in the face of politicians with his film The Conformist in 1970 and the story of the final Emperor of China in the multiple Oscar winning The Last Emperor. He continues his work of delving into the human body and soul with the male and female full frontal scenes in The Dreamers that caused this film to be labeled with an NC-17.

Daniel Robert Epstein: In the movie the main characters constantly go to Cinematheque Francaise where they see films by masters of cinema. They could have very well been going to see your films. Did you see the irony there?

Bernardo Bertolucci: Yeah in fact I met [Henri] Langlois in 1965 or 66 and I saw this huge screen which occupied the whole room. I asked Langlois, why is it so big? He said it was because of those Fellini films because suddenly the shot go up, right, then down and we have to be ready so the screen is very big. He was really an extraordinary teacher like Socrates. In the sense that the movies he was showing were so important in the creation of the New Wave from Goddard, Truffaut, Rohmer and blah blah. To go there was really giving a shape to the love and passion for cinema. So that’s why I started with the event because everything that happened afterward started with Langlois, started with cinema. But at the Cinematheque it was the first time that the police were so aggressive and violent with students, young people, intellectuals and film directors who were just showing their solidarity with Langlois. Then big riots for the first time went to Rome, Germany, Berkeley, Columbia University and at Kent some kids were killed. But for me all these events, which happened in a global way without internet, fax machines or anything it was just this fantastic magic element that spread. It all started at the Cinematheque and they all had this quality of cinema of dreams, cinema to me is like dreams.

DRE: What attracted you to this particular story?

BB: When I read it, I had a feeling when I saw Jean Cocteau’s Les Enfants Terribles [released in 1950] this complicated relationship between the twins. There’s something Cocteau said “With this [movie] I want to make lightness the gravity” which I remembered during the shooting of this movie. I had to be light and at the same time intense. If I think of eroticism in Last Tango I see something dark, heavy and tragic because it was about very destructive characters. In The Dreamers I see something very light and very joyous.

DRE: Do you ever feel like you’re the last of a dying breed making films that matter that as interesting intellectually as they are visually?

BB: I hope I’m not the last one though it is a possibility.

DRE: Even if you don’t like the movie it works on so many different levels.

BB: Yes but if I look at Wong Kar Wai, PT Anderson or [David] Lynch, I see the same kind of quality. There is no difference than say the New Wave. I always considered myself part of the New Wave even though I am Italian. Because when I started in 1962 Italian cinema was like the decaying of New Realism. New Realism had finished its great run in the late 40’s and 50’s and now Italy was being taken over by Italian comedy. In France you had this extraordinary movement that was like a big wave called the New Wave [laughs]. So I felt much closer to that. Maybe that’s why I went to Paris to shoot The Conformist and Last Tango in Paris. Could it have been done in Vienna? I don’t know.

DRE: How do you think the young people in The Dreamers reflect on the youth of today?

BB: I think that the three of them are absolutely kids of today. I didn’t even want them to try and find out how kids walked or acted in 1968. They wanted to be themselves of today taken with me and the camera is a like a time machine to 1968.

DRE: In a way you are infusing kids of today with 1968.

BB: Doing a period movie is like doing an illustration of a period which will be according to the production and costume designer. What I wanted was more of an umbilical cord between now and 1968. For example the ending with the police charge has been manipulated digitally. It was originally shorter but made longer using different takes because in 2001 at the G8 meeting in Genoa, Italy there were a great number of protesters and the police were very aggressive. So I wanted to show an affinity for that. The fact is today kids know nothing about 1968. While I was casting, especially in Paris, I was trying to understand why the parents of the kids who were auditioning hadn’t told their children anything about 1968. Then I understood because they think 1968 was a failure. Now I think they are completely wrong. Life after 1968 was completely different because the relationship between people had completely changed. I remember well, life before 1968; in every town you saw some authority everywhere. After 1968, for example, men and women’s relationship started to change. It was 1968 that triggered the liberation. So it’s wrong to consider it a failure. I was thinking today the paradox was irresistible. So in the film Matthew, the young American, refused the violence, and the young French throws a Molotov cocktail toward the police. Today the young Americans have to go to fight the war and the French refuse to go to war. So it was absolutely the opposite of what was going on in 1968.

DRE: Do you think freedom of expression had grown since you made Last Tango in Paris in 1972?

BB: In 1972, Last Tango in Paris was able to open because I cut five symbolic seconds. For The Dreamers we had a deal to deliver an R-rated movie so in the end I had to accept that. I had to suffer a bit and go to the cutting room and do some trims. Then looking at the film altered I found it was, if anything, more obscene than the original. I don’t consider the naked body obscene so when you go and cover the naked body then it becomes titillating and obscene.

DRE: Even though you are Bernardo Bertolucci, were any of the actors reticent to do the nude scenes?

BB: No because it was clear from the beginning. I remember telling them, there are two important things, one I want you to remember you are going to sleep in 1968 knowing that we would wake, not tomorrow, but in the future. It was an incredible sense of future which means hope to change and better the world. The second thing I told them is that within two weeks you have to move into the apartment and be naked and be as if you were not naked. After the first or second day the crew wasn’t even looking at them.

DRE: Could you talk about the casting of Michael Pitt?

BB: The casting of Michael Pitt took place at two different times. First I saw him in New York because I went to LA and New York looking for a young American actor. In general at that age, 20 to 21, there aren’t many very well known actors. I saw him and I liked him but then in London I saw another actor named Jake Gyllenhaal. I liked him very much and I decided to go with him. But immediately I knew it would be a nightmare because [Jake Gyllenhaal] was terrified by nudity. I don’t blame him because I am exactly like him, I could never do it. Then when I understood it was impossible with him I wanted again to see the boy with the big lips, Michael Pitt. We looked at him in the movie Bully and the movie by Barbet [Schroeder director of Murder by Numbers]. Immediately I went back to that idea of Michael. I found that his lips and mouth, a bit too sexy, maybe even feminine. This is why, when we were shooting, I added a line when the three of them are in the bathroom, they’re still getting to know one another and the girl tries to put lipstick on Michael’s lips, making fun of him saying, “Oh, you look wonderful with lipstick. It was a kind of in-joke.

DRE: After all these years do you take more pleasure in filming a female or a male body?

BB: I never thought about it. There isn’t much difference. Of course when I shoot a boy there is always a kind of narcissism because you identify with him. That’s the only difference.

DRE: It’s been said that you want to continue the story you started with the film 1900 [released in 1976]. Where do you see those characters now and what's the latest on that project?

BB: I tried to do it, but it was impossible and so I didn't go very much into the project. It was impossible because Italy is so different now from the political and ideological atmosphere when we made the movie in 1975. You can see the difference. So I could have done it, but it would have been a complete forgery, a fake because 1900 was born in a country with extraordinary political passion.

DRE: Is there another era you'd like to explore?

BB: At the moment, no. I don't know what I want to do tomorrow. Right now I’m busy promoting The Dreamers but the day after tomorrow I don't know. I don't have plans for the future.

DRE: So no film lined up?

BB: I had one, but then I decided to dump it. So now I'm waiting not to choose, but to be chosen.

DRE: Were you worried about how the rating of NC-17 might limit the release of this film?

BB: At the beginning I thought Fox Searchlight did not want to go out with an NC-17 because of those limitations. But then they explained that NC-17 is not like having an X. Apart from very few places, no exhibitors have problems with NC-17. Grown-ups have the right to see movies for grown-ups. Very recently I'd heard that the movie couldn't be shown in this country in its entirety. It sounded too strange for the only country in the world to cut the movie is the United States and probably Iran. Then I was happy because I think it is a good precedent for other companies. They'll now be encouraged to release movies that maybe wouldn't be released here. I think in the end there was more than just respect for my work. The media would have been attacking them because the United States would be the only country where people could not see this film.

DRE: How did you find Louis Garrel who played, Theo, the brother?

BB: He's an actor I found on the first day at the first session of casting in Paris. He entered the room and I immediately knew. He looked a bit like you'd see in certain neoclassical paintings. Then I discovered that he is the son of a colleague, [film director] Philippe Garrel. That's how I found him.

DRE: How did you tell the brother and sister to play their parts?

BB: I know that in the screenplay, as in the book by Gilbert Adair, there's a homosexual relationship between Theo and Matthew the American kid. But I thought there was already so much material in the film that to add that would have been too much. I've been told so many times that my movies are redundant or too full. During the shoot we decided to cut Louis Garrel’s part down. So it remains a projection of something that could have been there. The relationship between him and Matthew is now more subtle.

DRE: Was there ever incest between the brother and the sister?

BB: No, no, no. How can somebody call it incest, the relationship between two creatures that were together in the womb for nine months? They are twins. They grew together in the first months and then the first years. They're reflected in each other, seeing themselves all the time and then you see that the girl was a virgin. So it's not incest. It's more about twins and it's even more interesting that Eva Green has a twin sister so she knew what the experience is like.

DRE: How is this film personal for you?

BB: It is like all my movies, just a piece of my life. Maybe I have a very vivid memory of those days. I was attracted by the violent coups and on the other hand, I was very much against violence. In fact, I’m a completely nonviolent person in the sense of physical violence. That’s why I decided to go to the apartment in The Dreamers. To be there was like going into memory and trying to recreate that moment which was magic.

DRE: You mentioned you watched Michael Pitt in Bully. What did you think of that film?

BB: I thought Bully was extremely strong and an interesting film about kids in this country. Another beautiful example is Gus Van Sant’s Elephant. It strikes me and it shocks me. These kids have this violent aggression and you do not understand the immediate reason. Apparently, there is not a reason. That creates suspicion. When I was talking with the ratings commission I asked them why they're always so strict with sexuality and so liberal with violence. They told me there are the parents’ associations in America who are partners with the ratings commission. Those parents think that children will emulate movies with sex and with violence they don't. But think of Columbine and there are so many more examples in this country. Schools have metal detectors when the kids enter, it's so strange.

DRE: How do you reflect on working with a man like Marlon Brando?

BB: I think I fell completely in love with him, because I felt that it was a challenge to have Marlon be different from the Marlon that I had seen in all of his famous movies. I remember that I told him, “I would like to take away the mask, the persona that you show in all your movies. I want you as you are when we’re talking amongst ourselves.” He gave me one of his smiles. He was extraordinarily easy to work with. I was told “It will be a nightmare and that he’s impossible.” He was the opposite. Since I did Last Tango in Paris I never found somebody so modest, easy and ready to do everything. So it really depends on the relationship between two people. Part of the challenge was to take Marlon, or to let Marlon take me, into the depth of his tormented nature. He gave me things that probably afterward he wasn’t sure it was right to give. He gave me the flesh without the skin and he gave me the violence of that character. We are still on very good terms and we speak once or twice a year. Long, long conversations.

Quote from: berto on brandoWe are still on very good terms and we speak once or twice a year. Long, long conversations.

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recently watched this.

i think it lacks the eroticism/sexuality of his other films - it just didn't work.

im sure it didn't help that I find it a laborious task to stare and/or listen to michael pitt for more than a couple seconds.