This interview really bothered me:
(CNN) -- Talk about a guy thing. Men's Journal has compiled a list of the 50 best guy movies of all time.
"The Good, The Bad and The Ugly," the ultimate spaghetti western, made the list, which appears in the December issue of the men's magazine.
Men's Journal Executive Editor Mark Horowitz spoke with CNN Anchor Bill Hemmer in New York on Tuesday about how the list was compiled.
HEMMER: [The] criteria is what for this list?
HOROWITZ: These are movies that guys like, generally that guys can watch in groups, that they remember all the lines [and that] they watch over and over again. It tends to be movies women don't like.
HEMMER: Top three films are?
HOROWITZ: "Dirty Harry," number one. "Godfather," number two. "Scarface," number three.
HEMMER: How did you ever slice the tomato on that one?
HOROWITZ: Well, a lot of people think "Godfather" maybe should have been No. 1. Our feeling was "Godfather" is the kind of movie that can turn up on any list as one of the best movies of all time, period. We wanted a quintessential guy movie. And we felt that "Dirty Harry" edges out "Godfather" because all of his virtues are guy movie virtues.
HEMMER: Were you the one [who] said "Godfather" is number two because it's too good to be No. 1?
HOROWITZ: Yes, I think you could say that.
HEMMER: Here is your top five now: "Terminator," "Die Hard," "Scarface," "Godfather" and "Dirty Harry."
HOROWITZ: Right. A lot of people thought "Caddyshack," [a] Bill Murray movie, should have been No. 1. We argued that.
HEMMER: Let's talk about what did not make the list. "Deer Hunter" -- a lot of people want to know why that did not make the list.
The Meryl Streep rule
HOROWITZ: We were talking about "Deer Hunter." It's got [an] elk hunting scene, it's got Vietnam scenes. It seems like a real guy movie. And one of our editors pointed out that Meryl Streep was in it, and he said, you know what, I don't think a movie with Meryl Streep should be on a guy movie list.
HEMMER: Off the list.
HOROWITZ: And that became a hard and fast rule.
HEMMER: "Pulp Fiction."
HOROWITZ: "Pulp Fiction" ... We have "Reservoir Dogs." We have a little bonus at the end of "Kill Bill." We didn't want to overdue it with Quentin Tarantino.
HEMMER: But that's all about women, "Kill Bill."
HOROWITZ: Yes, but it's also just nonstop fighting, not a lot of dialogue.
HEMMER: "Taxi Driver," De Niro, '76, "Some day a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets." Now if you're a guy, that's one heck of a line. ["Taxi Driver"] didn't even make the list.
HOROWITZ: We had some Martin Scorcese movies. We had a couple of De Niro movies. I sort of felt that "Taxi Driver" is a little too arty maybe.
HEMMER: Tell us, who put together the list?
HOROWITZ: We had the whole staff of Men's Journal plus a lot of our writers and friends and other editors we knew. We just solicited opinions from all over the place.
... There were a lot of good movies that -- there were even some movies that I wanted that didn't make it.
HEMMER: How do you like coming in here and getting hammered for your list?
HOROWITZ: You talk to a guy, and you can talk about "Terminator" or "Dirty Dozen," chances are they've seen it five, six or seven times. A woman might go to one of those movies once, maybe twice tops.
HEMMER: We have a list, our viewers have been writing in. They say "True Lies," "Happy Gilmore," "Patton," "Kelly's Heroes" [and] "Dumb and Dumber" [are] all great films.
HOROWITZ: Right, yes, those are all...
HEMMER: Here is my question. ... "Stripes" is only at number 37. What gives there? I am the little acorn that becomes the oak.
HOROWITZ: You know, I think they're all winners.
What bugs me about this is how narrow minded most guys are, that a movie that has Meryl Streep can't be good. Adaption., most guys I know love, and that's like the least "Meryl" a role you could think of. And, well, just that this really reflects badly on most guys because of the few who think mindless action makes a good movie. I mean, I like Dumb and Dumber, Happy Gilmore, and Caddyshack as much as the next guy, but this also shows a submersion in pop culture that's manifested in people who see movies merely as prolonged sitcoms and cop dramas. That about sum it up, Cinephile?
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What would I do without you, Ono?
I've never even seen "Dirty Harry". shit, does that make me less of a man. fuck "guy movies". 'guy' has become synonymous (sp?) with stupid. so that list is useless. although i do like the godfather a lot and enjoyed scareface, although not as much as my friends did. what was the deal with that music everytime he saw his sister? were they in love?
I don't mind the list. Actually, I'm happy "Die Hard" made the top 5. I'm hearing the grievances and I'm sure I'll hear more when Godardian gets wind of this list, but c'mon, what the fuck do you expect from this list? These kinds of lists ultimately don't matter and as other lists going in rating the best of genres, the "Guy" movie is an unofficial genre in its own right. Its not saying a guy wouldn't enjoy "The Deer Hunter" because Meryl Streep is in it. (I think the "Meryl Streep rule" is hilarious) All that it means is that it isn't a "Guy" movie. No one should be ashamed to like these movies. I also say lighten the fuck up and get pissed that these guys are American snobs and likely unable to appreciate the genius of Toshiro Mifune in his most ass kicking role, "Yojimbo". Now there's a real "Guy" movie.
I hated Deer Hunter and wouldn't put it on the list either. It is a guy movie list so I don't see what is so surprising about it. I wish SHAFT would have been up there higher. Also, films with gratuitious nudity should be high on the list.
GT is right (about my reaction): The idea of this list is really presumptuous and irritating. You know who it's most insulting to? The guys it supposedly represents. What's really harmful is that cheap little magazines like Men's Journal actually do have an influence; they are a part of our culture and do put ideas into people's heads about what it means to "be a man," which is of course arbitrary and should be entirely up to the individual man. Character traits and flaws should not be generalized by gender; that's simplistic thinking at its most mindless.
I'm sick of all the endless listmaking our media does anyway, but this is a particularly insipid list. The thing about Taxi Driver being "too arty" made me laugh derisively, though. Do these people know that most men, even most "red-blooded," straight, working-class men, aren't Neanderthals?
for my part, I'm a little disappointed more pornos didn't make the list....
Quote from: SoNowThenfor my part, I'm a little disappointed more pornos didn't make the list....
I'm sure you'd have no problem finding some guy's (or girl's) list of favorite pornos somewhere... this IS the Internet, after all! Unless you actually need fucking
Men's Journal's opinion on good pornos... and really, as subjective as lists of "legitimate" movies are, don't you think porno is about as subjective as you could possibly get when it comes to judging something on its supposed merits? So much so, in fact, that a list would be fairly useless?
WHat!!!!!!!!!! :? :? :? :? how come.no one 's mentioning. this h0rmonal powerhouse:
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Quote from: godardianQuote from: SoNowThenfor my part, I'm a little disappointed more pornos didn't make the list....
I'm sure you'd have no problem finding some guy's (or girl's) list of favorite pornos somewhere... this IS the Internet, after all! Unless you actually need fucking Men's Journal's opinion on good pornos... and really, as subjective as lists of "legitimate" movies are, don't you think porno is about as subjective as you could possibly get when it comes to judging something on its supposed merits? So much so, in fact, that a list would be fairly useless?
mon ami, I was poking fun at the "guy movies" list... as in, if we have to disregard any "arty"ness, shouldn't it be a list of cheesey pornos?
'tis all
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: godardianQuote from: SoNowThenfor my part, I'm a little disappointed more pornos didn't make the list....
I'm sure you'd have no problem finding some guy's (or girl's) list of favorite pornos somewhere... this IS the Internet, after all! Unless you actually need fucking Men's Journal's opinion on good pornos... and really, as subjective as lists of "legitimate" movies are, don't you think porno is about as subjective as you could possibly get when it comes to judging something on its supposed merits? So much so, in fact, that a list would be fairly useless?
mon ami, I was poking fun at the "guy movies" list... as in, if we have to disregard any "arty"ness, shouldn't it be a list of cheesey pornos?
'tis all
Ah... this place needs subtitles for the humor-impaired.
Quote from: SoNowThenQuote from: godardianQuote from: SoNowThenfor my part, I'm a little disappointed more pornos didn't make the list....
I'm sure you'd have no problem finding some guy's (or girl's) list of favorite pornos somewhere... this IS the Internet, after all! Unless you actually need fucking Men's Journal's opinion on good pornos... and really, as subjective as lists of "legitimate" movies are, don't you think porno is about as subjective as you could possibly get when it comes to judging something on its supposed merits? So much so, in fact, that a list would be fairly useless?
mon ami, I was poking fun at the "guy movies" list... as in, if we have to disregard any "arty"ness, shouldn't it be a list of cheesey pornos?
'tis all
Ah... this place needs subtitles for the humor-impaired.
Football movies, you know how guys love football movies.
I am a guy. I love football, I love movies...I hate football movies.
HA HA men ARE all the same !
Quote from: classical gasI've never even seen "Dirty Harry". shit, does that make me less of a man. fuck "guy movies". 'guy' has become synonymous (sp?) with stupid.
Much much much agreed! I've been thinking that for years now, ever since The Man Show. This fucking list is in the same vein, making men look stupid. Stuff like this always reminds me of this dickhead 2nd cousin of my dad's (he has a huge family) that's always at the reunions and all (you know the type), this is just what his taste is like. You know what I'm talking about, he's one of those "guy's guys" with the football and the beer, I'm starting to really hate those kind of people, not everybody that likes that stuff but everybody that is really loud and obnoxious about it, everybody that is proud of it, it's such a joke. He has fucking gray hair, he's like 45 (looks like he's 60) and he still thinks he's in high school, it's kinda sad to think about. I avoid him every chance I get. People like that suck just like this list does. I would have respected it more if it was all pornos, at least I could have laughed.
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetI also say lighten the fuck up and get pissed that these guys are American snobs and likely unable to appreciate the genius of Toshiro Mifune in his most ass kicking role, "Yojimbo". Now there's a real "Guy" movie.
guy movies dont involve subtitles (IE: reading/thinking.)
Quote from: classical gasI've never even seen "Dirty Harry". shit, does that make me less of a man. fuck "guy movies". 'guy' has become synonymous (sp?) with stupid.
dirty harry is cool.
Quote from: themodernage02Quote from: The Gold TrumpetI also say lighten the fuck up and get pissed that these guys are American snobs and likely unable to appreciate the genius of Toshiro Mifune in his most ass kicking role, "Yojimbo". Now there's a real "Guy" movie.
guy movies dont involve subtitles (IE: reading/thinking.)
Yeah, I was thinking that exact same thing. "Too arty."
I really hate Dirty Harry, though. That's 180 degrees from what Scorsese/Schrader were doing in
Taxi Driver, and I think they had it right.
Quote from: SHAFTRI hated Deer Hunter
whaaaaaaa?
Quote from: ewardQuote from: SHAFTRI hated Deer Hunter
whaaaaaaa?
I don't know. I love the performances and there were a few good scenes but overall...I was left very unimpressed.
You would've creamed your pants for the Deer Hunter 25 years ago.
Nobody has mentioned the ultimate staple of "Movies for Guys Who Love Movies" on TNT/TBS ....
Road House!
Quote from: CinephileYou would've creamed your pants for the Deer Hunter 25 years ago.
It does seem to be a movie of it's time. I don't think it ages/d well.
Were there any Guy Pearce movies on the list?
Dirty Harry is the top guy movie because there is no love interest. Harry's wife was killed before the film began. He is a man alone, trying to track down a sniper, and has no time for romance.
QuoteI don't know. I love the performances and there were a few good scenes but overall...I was left very unimpressed.
i loved it (deer hunter) until the end. it was this whole movie about how horrible the war was, and the terrible effects it had on these people, but in the end they sing 'god bless america' i just think they were too afraid of seeming unpatriotic, for such a brave movie it had such a gutless ending. i dunno, i only saw it once so maybe i'm misinterpreting it.
but on the subject of the list, yea the list is kind of an insult, but so is the magazine it comes from. but i think we can deal with it, after all, women have been dealing with stereotypes for much longer than we have.