I think Smith is a great writer. I love his films. Clerks was the work of true genius. I'm still trying to figure out all this PT Anderson worship that goes on around here. I watched Magnolia, it was a visually stylish flick, but I couldn't get into it. I'll bet that the same people here that think KS movies have no depth are the same ones who think Fight Club was about fighting. There was a WHOLE lot more going on in that movie than fighting and there are many levels in KS movies. He actually says alot in between the dick and fart jokes. He can do more with some black and white film and no-name actors with a $20,000 budget than Steven Spielberg can with $100,000,000. Ooooh! Look! A T-Rex!!!! A boat full of slaves! A goofey Alien!!! I'm looking forward to Jason Lee playing Fletch. That guy is a good actor. Anyway, my point is KS has alot of talent. His films are very entertaining.
i always liked clerks. i find his visual style (or lack of) and writing perfect for that film. but to me it seems like after clerks he shouldve evolved as a filmmaker and i dont think he has. jersey girl seems to be a step in a "mature" sort of direction, which isnt necessarily what i mean, but anyhow
Well....... I love Magnolia as well as every PT Anderson film. And I also love Chasing Amy and think Dogma and Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back are really funny movies (never got to see Clerks or Mallrats). I also love Fight Club and believe me, I know it's not about fighting. I also like Spielberg... And Jason Lee is hilarious..... Anyway, my point is just that it's perfectly possible for one person to like all these movies. So KS and PTA had issues with each other. I don't really give a shit about that, as far as they keep doing well what they do best.
I dislike Kevin Smith.
i love all of PTA's films. As for Kevin Smith, I love Clerks and Chasing Amy, I think they are just great. I hate Mallrats. I think Dogma is very smart and funny (a tad long however), and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back had some funny parts, but mostly I thought it was boring. I am eagerly awaiting Jersey Girl. I think he is a great writer. I think Spielberg is great as well, and vastly underrated by people like you. I absolutely HATED fight club, and what everybody else sees in it, I have tried to see by forcing myself through repeated viewings, but I always come out hating it even more. Oh well.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI think Smith is a great writer. I love his films. Clerks was the work of true genius. I'm still trying to figure out all this PT Anderson worship that goes on around here. I watched Magnolia, it was a visually stylish flick, but I couldn't get into it. I'll bet that the same people here that think KS movies have no depth are the same ones who think Fight Club was about fighting. There was a WHOLE lot more going on in that movie than fighting and there are many levels in KS movies. He actually says alot in between the dick and fart jokes. He can do more with some black and white film and no-name actors with a $20,000 budget than Steven Spielberg can with $100,000,000. Ooooh! Look! A T-Rex!!!! A boat full of slaves! A goofey Alien!!! I'm looking forward to Jason Lee playing Fletch. That guy is a good actor. Anyway, my point is KS has alot of talent. His films are very entertaining.
KS a great writer -- yes. Pretty good eye for casting -- yes. Director/visual stylist -- not at all. Too bad it's a visual medium.
But you're right, he certainly can do more with his tiny-dick budgets than 'Berg can, but I think nearly every director working today can do that.
But yeah, he's basically alright. The reason why I was a little choked at him was when he started ranting about Magnolia. Sad.
Watch more PTA. Your eyes and heart will thank you.
Oh, come on. Give Spielberg a break. He is constantly making challenging, different movies each time out right now. And they're GREAT. He is in his prime.
P.S. Kevin Smith is essentially a guy who makes home movies for him his friends.
It's just one man's opinion. Maybe one day his movies will click for me. They haven't yet, and I keep giving chances.
The "home movie" aspect is probably why I like KS more than 'berg...
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI think Smith is a great writer. I love his films. Clerks was the work of true genius. I'm still trying to figure out all this PT Anderson worship that goes on around here. I watched Magnolia, it was a visually stylish flick, but I couldn't get into it. I'll bet that the same people here that think KS movies have no depth are the same ones who think Fight Club was about fighting. There was a WHOLE lot more going on in that movie than fighting and there are many levels in KS movies. He actually says alot in between the dick and fart jokes. He can do more with some black and white film and no-name actors with a $20,000 budget than Steven Spielberg can with $100,000,000. Ooooh! Look! A T-Rex!!!! A boat full of slaves! A goofey Alien!!! I'm looking forward to Jason Lee playing Fletch. That guy is a good actor. Anyway, my point is KS has alot of talent. His films are very entertaining.
I think someone needs a HUG!
PTA is among my three favourite directors, so I haven't to tell you that I LOVE each of his films. From KS I just have seen "Dogma" and "Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back". "Dogma" was really great and very funny. "Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back" wasn't that good, but still funny and entertaining. Yesterday I ordered "Clerks". We'll see!
P.S.: What did KS say about "Magnolia"?
ill shoot the next mother fucker who posts in this thread.
:2gunfire:
The original post is simple praise and disagreeance. Let me run the gamut on everything he said.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI think Smith is a great writer.
Not I.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostClerks was the work of true genius.
Clerks was cute.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI'm still trying to figure out all this PT Anderson worship that goes on around here. I watched Magnolia, it was a visually stylish flick, but I couldn't get into it.
I loved Magnolia. Wanna talk about it?
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI'll bet that the same people here that think KS movies have no depth are the same ones who think Fight Club was about fighting. There was a WHOLE lot more going on in that movie than fighting and there are many levels in KS movies. He actually says alot in between the dick and fart jokes.
2 parter. I know Fight Club (as does everyone else here) is about more than fighting. I still think it was a failure for other reasons. Wanna talk about it?/I saw important things in Chasing Amy, nothing else. Everything else at higher meaning was just pretension to me. Again, wanna talk about that?
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostHe can do more with some black and white film and no-name actors with a $20,000 budget than Steven Spielberg can with $100,000,000. Ooooh! Look! A T-Rex!!!! A boat full of slaves! A goofey Alien!!!
With the last part, I think Kevin Smith is a better pick for parody than Speilberg. The first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan alone trump Smith's entire body of work imo. Tell me why I am wrong.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI'm looking forward to Jason Lee playing Fletch. That guy is a good actor. Anyway, my point is KS has alot of talent. His films are very entertaining.
Lee is decent. Smith has a little talent as a writer, I'll give him that. And some of his films are entertaining.
~rougerum
OOOooooooohhhhh CBR, Bring it!
~rougerum
yeah i feel odd sometimes because i think all KS movies are great(minus one) and fuck everyone who hates him becaus he has an opinion.
by the way, Lee is not playing Fetch. Mirimax refused to cast him in the lead and now Smith is still looking but probably has already made up his mind.
i liked kevin smith when i was in high school. the humor and depth of his scripts are tailored to someone of that age. unfortunately i grew up and he didnt. by the time jay and silent turd came out i had completely lost interest. i thought it was painfully unfunny, as well as stupid. now that i've finished college i can hardly remember what i liked about him in the first place.
Quote from: themodernage02i liked kevin smith when i was in high school. the humor and depth of his scripts are tailored to someone of that age. unfortunately i grew up and he didnt. by the time jay and silent turd came out i had completely lost interest. i thought it was painfully unfunny, as well as stupid. now that i've finished college i can hardly remember what i liked about him in the first place.
dont place your basis of Kevin Smith movies on J&SBSB. I wasnt a big fan either. That was the minus one i was refering to.
The #1 reason that I will remain a Kevin Smith fan is the fact that he actually cares about his fans. He puts together parties every few years that fans are invited to, he answers questions of fans on his message board multiple times a month.
I will give you he isn't a visual director, he will give you that too; but he does make entertaining movies that turn profits and he's a great writer (in films and in comics).
There are some people who are all about the art, that is fine but I still think it is special when someone is all about the fans.
no shit. He loves his fans. He puts so much care into anything View Askew puts out. Look at all the effort he puts into DVD's.
I didn't read this thread 8)
I agree that he loves his fans. Know why? He never stopped being a fan. You guys that downgrade him just don't get it, he's one of us that made it. He, like QT, is a pop culture junkie. His writing is fantastic. BTW Jason Lee was born to be Fletch, Miramax sucks. Oh, and to the kid who "grew up" and out of KS films, too bad you forgot how to laugh. What are you? 21? 22? I'm 33, an adult, but not a grown up. When you grow up, your heart dies. I will have to watch Magnolia again. The fact that so many of you here love it makes me want to give it another chance. However, as I posted in another thread, Magnolia was by no means as good as American Beauty. Sam Mendes style is every bit as imaginative as anyones. AB was probably one of the 10 best over the last 30 years or more.
Uh Oh. Mutincyo reborn here. Opinion on the abstract is fact for him. He can even give judgements on other people with little basis. What can't he do?
Also, I don't think American Beauty is near even a decent film. A crap film, imo. Again, wanna talk about it or should you continue to give us blank checks for opinions? Discussion is priceless. Let's use it.
~rougerum
.Kevin Smith-brilliant writer..I could care less how "visual" his films are..w/smith its all about the writing his stuff is great..
clersks-brilliant...beserker..
mallrats-garbage...
chasing amy-brilliant...
dogma-way under-rate d..
JASBSB-just plain funny.....
'BERG-brilliant
..i can'r believe people on this board call themselves "film bufs"..and diss this guy... :roll:
fight club....i thought it was about fighting :?
Quote from: NEON MERCURYfight club....i thought it was about fighting :?
its about homoeroticism. duh
Ok Trumpet, why was AB a crap film? I am dying to hear this.
Quote from: CecilQuote from: NEON MERCURYfight club....i thought it was about fighting :?
its about homoeroticism. duh
I thought it was a documentary on how to make soap. :(
Quote from: Find Your MagaliQuote from: CecilQuote from: NEON MERCURYfight club....i thought it was about fighting :?
its about homoeroticism. duh
I thought it was a documentary on how to make soap. :(
making soap is very homoerotic. think about it. soap.
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetUh Oh. Mutincyo reborn here. Opinion on the abstract is fact for him. He can even give judgements on other people with little basis. What can't he do?
Also, I don't think American Beauty is near even a decent film. A crap film, imo. Again, wanna talk about it or should you continue to give us blank checks for opinions? Discussion is priceless. Let's use it.
~rougerum
YEAH!!! I Heart GT.
I've always felt, besides the good performances from Spacey and Benning, and the always solid DP work of Hall, that it was a manipulative and shite film, and it left me with a bad bad taste in my mouth.
If you get over the fact that it won Best Picture the same year when Magnolia wasn't even nominated, you'll be able to see what a great film it is... I still prefer Magnolia, though.
I saw it before I even knew about Magnolia. I saw it with some friends from film school who raved and raved about it, I saw it with an open mind and also thinking Spacey was one of my fav actors. I came out disgusted. For reason that I NEVER want to get into on this board (because I kid you not, 40% of you will shit all over me if I tell you why) I think it is one of the most evil pieces of progaganda ever made, not to mention rife with every shit cliche in story. The only thing that saves the TERRIBLE story is the fact that Conrad Hall can make anything beautiful. I firmly believe he won every award for this film. His lighting made the acting and directing seem much more brilliant, and it almost covered up the script.
I could care less that it won an award. I don't hate movies if they win an academy award. As much as I don't put much stock in those things, I'm usually more interested to see something that won, just to see what the industry "peers" are deeming important that year.
In the big picture, American Beauty is a Woody Allen film done without the comedy and is now pretending it is original material. To explain, Woody Allen makes parodies of serious movies and brings down all the characters to levels of characteratures, meaning they are easily identifiable of who they represent in other movies. Example of another movie could be Ordinary People for this one. In this movie, all you need is two seconds to sum up the struggles and goals of every single character in this movie. Nothing organic is felt at all. They are all stiff characteratures brought down to the ground by writing that plays as the underlining meaning to the other movies. So instead of a family struggle in which a conflict is shown and thats all, the movie will show the struggle with themes right on the surface and continually being pounded. Even movie fantasy is observed with the dream sequence and only further underlines everything we knew within moments. Nothing in this movie is organic, everything is playing from a storyline we all know too well, "Six people yet again are searching for themselves." The movie is near parody though in that it dresses its locale, its characters and its conflict in the best way to sum them as a parody would do. Parodies reduce things to identifiable symbols as to show how cliche they are.
Then, they are the good things that make this hard to discern. The performances are great in Cooper, Spacey and Benning. The directing and lighting is great as well and almost bring an effect where just watching it is enjoyable. The writing, as explained in the first paragraph, is dismal.
~rougerum
I don't buy that theory for one second. It sounds like you disliked the movie and then tried to fit it into a parody theory that doesn't work. To say American Beauty has anything to do with a Woody Allen film is ridiculous. You're just trying to say it's a fleshed out, intricate drama that takes subject material in a new direction and spin it as a bad thing.
Woody Allen has done multiple person characture movies so they're ripping him off. What? Everyone has done something done already. Originality is unheard of anymore, therefore an argument based off of something trying to "pretend" it's original material is unsound. Everything can be argued with that, so it's no longer viable. And even if you see this movies as another "six people search for themselves" how can you say it didn't take those six people in completely new and different directions? As far as pardoy, that's a stretch and a half. Nearly every movie uses archetypal characters to help the audience identify them. Sure parodies have them, but so do every other type of movie. Does this mean American Beauty is a dressed up, obnoxious parody? Maybe to you, but I certainly don't see that, or the "logic" in your critique.
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetIn the big picture, American Beauty is a Woody Allen film done without the comedy and is now pretending it is original material. To explain, Woody Allen makes parodies of serious movies and brings down all the characters to levels of characteratures, meaning they are easily identifiable of who they represent in other movies. Example of another movie could be Ordinary People for this one. In this movie, all you need is two seconds to sum up the struggles and goals of every single character in this movie. Nothing organic is felt at all. They are all stiff characteratures brought down to the ground by writing that plays as the underlining meaning to the other movies. So instead of a family struggle in which a conflict is shown and thats all, the movie will show the struggle with themes right on the surface and continually being pounded. Even movie fantasy is observed with the dream sequence and only further underlines everything we knew within moments. Nothing in this movie is organic, everything is playing from a storyline we all know too well, "Six people yet again are searching for themselves." The movie is near parody though in that it dresses its locale, its characters and its conflict in the best way to sum them as a parody would do. Parodies reduce things to identifiable symbols as to show how cliche they are.
Then, they are the good things that make this hard to discern. The performances are great in Cooper, Spacey and Benning. The directing and lighting is great as well and almost bring an effect where just watching it is enjoyable. The writing, as explained in the first paragraph, is dismal.
~rougerum
Nice post. You make some fascinating points. I like the film, probably moreso than you. But I agree that it doesn't leave me feeling much, emotionally, for the characters. It's nowhere near the same league as "Magnolia."
I wonder, however, whether you're pinning too much blame on Alan Ball and not enough on Sam Mendes. ... The screenwriter puts the script down on paper, but the director absolutely has the major influence on the film's tone and style (which, in essence, is what I think you are criticizing). ... A script can be interpreted any number of ways (the whole point of the xixax mini-film project) and I think where American Beauty falls short is in the over-exaggerating and over-dramatizing of certain elements of the screenplay, to the point that it doesn't feel like real life anymore, but a parody thereof. ... It might be shaky ground, but I would submit as further evidence of this the fact that I love Alan Ball's post-Beauty work (Six Feet Under), but I feel that Mendes' direction of Road to Perdition was extremely pedestrian. That, again, was a Conrad Hall movie. I don't think Mendes brought much to that as a director.
So, to sum up, I agree with your points on AB, I just don't agree on assigning the lion's share of the blame to Ball.
Raikus, Woody Allen was just an example, an example used under the mind set that he takes serious works and removes everything organic from them and shows them for their cliches. I see this movie in that vein. Nothing is organic and every character and every situation is dressed up as cliche in that it plays drama and meaning hand in hand, instead of just drama and leaving meaning up to the viewer. In that vein of how cliche the movie is, it is parody imo. I never said anything about looking for originality, my argument for is something organic.
Magali,
I don't think it was Mendes fault that much because my complaints of writing where everywhere. I just think Mendes made the mistake of believing in the story. I think if Mendes wanted to do poor directing, he would have used cute filmmaking tricks everywhere for no reason. He is actually quite sublte and nice in his filmmaking. The feel of the film as captured by Conrad Hall, is the magic that makes this world so appealing. The performance are its conviction. The story second guesses it and after second viewing, destroys everything.
~rougerum
American Beauty left a huge emotional impact on me. It is one of the first movies I had seen at that time that actually made me feel something. Subsequent viewings after that has shown that the movie is best upon first viewing but I would dare to say the same about Magnolia. I love both films, and both of them moved me but they lose momentum with every viewing. While in comparison Boogie Nights and PDL get better with every viewing.
But alas, we all have opinions.
Quote from: SoNowThenFor reason that I NEVER want to get into on this board (because I kid you not, 40% of you will shit all over me if I tell you why) I think it is one of the most evil pieces of progaganda ever made, not to mention rife with every shit cliche in story.
Please, oh, please tell me. I wanna be that 40%. American Beauty is one of my favorite movies, and I WANNA SHIT ALL OVAIRE U!!!~!
Kidding. Sort of.
Quote from: SoNowThenThe only thing that saves the TERRIBLE story is the fact that Conrad Hall can make anything beautiful. I firmly believe he won every award for this film. His lighting made the acting and directing seem much more brilliant, and it almost covered up the script.
Seriously, though, I can see where you're coming from here. American Beauty does, of course, pale in comparison to Magnolia. But what doesn't?
Conrad Hall's cinematography was brilliant. Agreed there. The first thing I think about when I hear American Beauty mentioned is how fucking beautiful the film is. But so were all the performances, the writing, and the execution. And I've read the script, and I can't help but love it. Ball and P.T. Anderson have a lot in common, at least there. Although, the reason I like AB so much (one of them) is theme. It is so much like Fight Club, and I saw both of those at relatively the same time. 1999 was just a year where that kind of thing was appropriate, and both films captured that feeling superbly. So yeah, while I kind of know what you're going to say, and why you're going to say it, I still want to hear it, because hey, I could be wrong.
i need to see this movie what is it called Magnolia? Is this about the flower?
Quote from: Bankyi need to see this movie what is it called Magnolia? Is this about the flower?
no its about plenty of people who are always swearing. the whole time, swearing!
Quote from: CecilQuote from: Bankyi need to see this movie what is it called Magnolia? Is this about the flower?
no its about plenty of people who are always swearing. the whole time, swearing!
really sounds like those kids on that cartoon southpark!
Quote from: NEON MERCURY'BERG-brilliant
..i can'r believe people on this board call themselves "film bufs"..and diss this guy... :roll:
exactly. berg is one of the best (cronen, that is)
(tired voice) Oh God, I just watched Magnolia. I wanted to like this movie, but I just don't. I feel like it was a waste of time. Damn it. The dumb cop was the only character that was ok. What is with you people? What did you see that I didn't? I didn't care about any of the characters! I didn't LIKE them. I didn't care about how these miserable asshole's lives connected. Not organic, not organic, not organic, that's all trumpet boy said about American Beauty. We didn't watch them same movies pal. Character developement and growth. We saw it in AB, where was it in Magnolia? Moore crying over her dying jerk husband after deciding that she loved him after simply screwing him for money? That information was thrusted on us at a lawyers office. I didn't "see" a transformation from cold-blooded money hungry bitch to loving wife, just the ends. Was it with Cruise? I hate my daddy! I come face to face with dying daddy then all of a sudden "I love daddy"! Lots of emotion with no cause for the emotions displayed. Cruise's father was terrible. At the end of AB when Spacey is about to bag his daughter's friend and she reveals that she is a virgin, yet still wants sex, Spacey becomes a father again. He snaps out of it. In the begining he is easily controlled by his wife until there is a CHANGE in his life. He reverts back to his teenage years after smoking some pot. He regains control of his life, but doesn't allow his desires to overcome his morals. His wife changes. His daughter changes big time. The attention of this boy draws her out of her shell. By the end she stands up to her friend instead of quietly going along with her. It wasn't an instant change either. at the half-way point she decides to walk home with him rather than go along with her friend. Ok I'm rambling now. It's 1:30 in the morning and I just got through watching Magnolia and I'm pretty pissed of that I lost that time and can't ever get it back. This wasn't as bad as that God awfull Rob Zombie movie, "Night of a Thousand corpses" but it wasn't good. It wasn't even all that original!!!!!!! Think!! Think about it!!!! HELLOOOO???? Pulp Fiction? A bunch of people who's live are all connected? Some live, some die? The survivors lives are changed? Ring any bells? Sweet God in heaven PF was SOOOO much better than Magnolia that it isn't even funny.
I honestly just don't get it. I can name at least 100 better movies. You cannot imagine my frustration while writing this. I just don't get it.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's GhostWhat did you see that I didn't?
Brilliant:writing, acting, story, score, cinematography, production design, ect..
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostIt wasn't even all that original!!!!!!! Think!! Think about it!!!! HELLOOOO???? Pulp Fiction? A bunch of people who's live are all connected?
i can't believe you're regarding
pulp fiction as a precedent for movies with intersecting plot-lines.
fucking momo.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostCruise's father was terrible.
I can deal with people who don't "get" Magnolia. (The frogs, etc.)
I can understand people who don't enjoy Magnolia. It's not for everyone.
But, I
hope what you are saying with the above statement is that "Earl Partridge was a terrible man" and not "Jason Robards was terrible in the film." If it was that second thing, well, um, I think I would simply be dumbfounded that
anyone could think
that.
Presence - with a double ass meaning
gifts I bestow, with my riff, and my flow
but you don't hear me though
think fast, catch me, yo
cause I throw what I know with a
Resonance - fo'yo'trouble-ass fiend in
weenin yo-self off the back of the shelf
Jackass crackas, bodystackas
dicktootin niggas, masturbatin' yo trigga
butcha y'all just fake-ass niggas --
-- livin' to get older
with a chip on your shoulder
'cept you think you got a grip,
cauze you hip gotta holster?
Ain't no confessor, so busta, you best just
Shut The fuck up, try to listen and learn --
heck that ego - come off it -
I'm the profit - the proffesor
Ima teach you 'bout The Worm,
who eventually turned to catch wreck
with the neck of a long time oppressor
And he's runnin from the devil, but the
debt is always gaining
And if he's worth being hurt, he's worth
bringin' pain in -
When the sunshine don't work, the Good Lord
bring the rain in.
Now that shit will help you SOLVE the case.[/size]
Jesus! SMc's ghost, so... didn't you like Magnolia because it wasn't like Pulp Fiction???, i hope not...
i see you're waiting for something specific in movies, but if you don't find it, don't say it's bad just because is not as you were waiting for...
and i liked very much Pulp Fiction, in fact i loved it, but i don't think is that original, is really difficult being original these days, when masters had done almost everything (i mean, cinematography, writing, story, score, design, atmosphere even characters) i think there is still a possibility to being original, but not that much, and Tarantino is an amazing filmmaker but he didn't discovered the cinema...
I am not saying that I expected pulp fiction. That would be nuts. Jason Robarts was good (he always is). It's the WORSHIP of this film that blows my fucking mind!!!!!! How the hell you people claim this is the greatest is beyond my understanding. I just don't get it. L.A. confidential was GREAT!, but I was just as shocked when Kim Bassinger won the AA for best supporting actress. WTF! Anybody here ever seen The House Of Yes? Parker Posey was incredible in that movie, but she couldn't get nominated to save her life. I don't get it. What the hell, it's just my opinion.
McQueen, It's just this board evolved from a Paul Thomas Anderson fan board. Thats why everyone does the sign of the cross before speaking on it. I'm glad other people are coming here and all, but I've been here a while and am use to everyone loving this movie and am kinda surprised when someone doesn't. I still favor disagreements more than anything else, its just the board carries a general allegiance for the movie and all.
~rougerum
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostI am not saying that I expected pulp fiction. That would be nuts. Jason Robarts was good (he always is). It's the WORSHIP of this film that blows my fucking mind!!!!!! How the hell you people claim this is the greatest is beyond my understanding. I just don't get it. L.A. confidential was GREAT!, but I was just as shocked when Kim Bassinger won the AA for best supporting actress. WTF! Anybody here ever seen The House Of Yes? Parker Posey was incredible in that movie, but she couldn't get nominated to save her life. I don't get it. What the hell, it's just my opinion.
For me, it's that Magnolia says everything I've ever wanted to say in a film, better than I could possibly say it. I'm not ashamed to admit I do pretty much sign the cross everytime I mention it. I'm very sorry you didn't like it. Perhaps at a later date.
Ohhhhhh! I get it now. This place was started by PTA fans. Ooopps. I didn't mean to rag on your hero. Magnolia just wasn't my cup of tea. I'm sure he's really good. I'm going pick up Punch Drunk Love, I've heard it's very good. Sorry if anyone took offense to my ramblings....
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostSorry if anyone took offense to my ramblings....
that's that....mattress man.
Now get the fuck outta here pervert!!!!!
ps. McQueen, wait till you see PDL to comment on that....
They both need to mature. I think both have displayed flashes of greatness, but their work as a whole hasn't attempted greatness yet. And for once I agree with GT. The opening of SPR obliterates everything Smith has done.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostOhhhhhh! I get it now. This place was started by PTA fans. Ooopps. I didn't mean to rag on your hero. Magnolia just wasn't my cup of tea. I'm sure he's really good. I'm going pick up Punch Drunk Love, I've heard it's very good. Sorry if anyone took offense to my ramblings....
so i was fucking this guy in the ass and i reached around to grab his balls and he was all like "what r u, gay or sumthing?!"
Some guns firing and people screaming does NOT amount to more than about 10 hours of brilliant dialogue. Not to mention how many WWII vets complained about the crying and wimpering some soldiers were doing. One Vet said "We were dropping like flies, there was no time to cry or piss". I like SPR. Hell, it was a great film, but don't dissmiss 5 movies worth of thoughtful dialogue for gunplay.
--------------------
I watched PDL! I liked it. It was much better than Magnolia (IMO). I loved it when Sandler fought back at the car wreck.
Kevin Smith is a wonderful writer, he's like Trey Parker and Matt Stone, they use vulgarity perfectly. It never fails when said at the right moment, in the right way, and they have a knack for that.
PTA also uses vulgarity, perfectly, but not as abundantly as KS. Which shows KS may be able to sling curses with the best of them, but that's it. His directing style is nothing special, it's not bad by any means, but lacks finesse. PTA is visually stunning, and works with sound, all elements to pull you in.
KS and PTA both have recurring actors, but PTA is a bit less shameless by making a movie about it. I'm sure Jay and Silent Bob was fun to make, and I can watch it non-stop, but where's the creativity?
KS can make one hell of a comedy, making even dick and fart jokes funny. But he couldn't possibly pull out a drama to best PTA. I'm not sure how PTA is on comedies like KS, I'd be interested to see one...but not so interested that I'm suggesting he should.
To me, they're not really that comparable. Aside from the common factors found above, they direct different films, I enjoy their films, the end.
Quote from: aClockworkWalrusKevin Smith is a wonderful writer, he's like Trey Parker and Matt Stone, they use vulgarity perfectly. It never fails when said at the right moment, in the right way, and they have a knack for that.
PTA also uses vulgarity, perfectly, but not as abundantly as KS. Which shows KS may be able to sling curses with the best of them, but that's it. His directing style is nothing special, it's not bad by any means, but lacks finesse. PTA is visually stunning, and works with sound, all elements to pull you in.
KS and PTA both have recurring actors, but PTA is a bit less shameless by making a movie about it. I'm sure Jay and Silent Bob was fun to make, and I can watch it non-stop, but where's the creativity?
KS can make one hell of a comedy, making even dick and fart jokes funny. But he couldn't possibly pull out a drama to best PTA. I'm not sure how PTA is on comedies like KS, I'd be interested to see one...but not so interested that I'm suggesting he should.
To me, they're not really that comparable. Aside from the common factors found above, they direct different films, I enjoy their films, the end.
u just had to bump this thread, didn't yah?
i can't think of two directors less ripe for comparison. hey, "ripe" has got me thinking about an interesting way to compare these two. here goes nothing.
so basically you have pta who's like the most graceful plant in your garden- a tasty, organic plant (no chemical additives) that continues to grow, get higher, more impressive. and he produces this wonderful fruit that is healthy and has seeds (ideas) that grow other plants. you are fit and happy when you eat the pta plant and its fruit.
by comparison, kevin smith's films are cotton candy sold to you by a fat, sweaty vendor, groveling for your attention in the most irritating way possible; you buy it against your better judgement because it seems alright enough: i mean it's quick, easy-to-swallow, right? but then you bite into it and all that promise turns into nothing but air and you feel empty inside. not only empty but pissed off because now you have sugar crystals all over your hands and mouth and you feel like a base slob. you deeply regret the money and the time you spent eating that pointless cotton candy.
suddenly, you long for the pta plant. while it wasn't as immediately sweet, it provided so much more.
Simple....yet brilliant Pookie!
My thoughts on this are just that Smith needs to grow a bit. He was headed in the right direction with Chasing Amy and Dogma (although I could do without that shit demon scene), but then he dropped back down with Jay and Silent Bob SB.
I don't think that it is right to compare KS to PTA, simply because they make totally different films and that PTA was more mature at 29 than KS will ever be in his life. I think it is more of a suitable gesture to both filmmakers if you compare them to Tarantino. PTA, similar technique in that he uses violence and vulgarity to keep you second guessing, but we've also gotta point out that PTA has some other tricks up his sleeve. They both are also very innovative with structure. KS, in his similar way of writing profane Seinfeld conversations (in that they are conversations about "nothing").
oh oh....another thing....
PTA IS GOD and Kevin Smith will be just "another filmmaker" by the time he's done.
Let's be honest, the reason this comparison is even being made is because Smith made Clerks and Chasing Amy, not for his other films. So, technically that's 2 for 5. He doesn't touch PTA's 4 for motherfuckin' 4.
Check that. The only reason this comparison is made because Kevin Smith said something on his website about Magnolia. So basically, his opinion is worth a little something more because he's famous, and the claws came out (at least on one end), because Smith took some sort offense to the "nerve" PTA had to be so "self-indulgent," or whatever it was he called it. Me, I like Kevin Smith. His "An Evening With Kevin Smith" is probably three of the funniest hours you could possibly experience. Clerks. was impressive. Chasing Amy showed growth, and Dogma had a great premise, but it lacked something I can't quite put my finger on. You're right in saying that Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back was a step backwards. And I agree with the assessment that between Smith and PTA, artistically, there is no comparison. Smith doesn't claim to be any sort of real artist, though. He just (tries to) make(s) funny movies.
by the way, i'd just like to add that after reading gt's post on american beauty, i'm convinced of his brilliance.
Quote from: Steve McQueen's ghostSome guns firing and people screaming does NOT amount to more than about 10 hours of brilliant dialogue.
Not just simple gun firing, but the accomplishment finally of dramatizing the effect of the D-Day invasion on film, something that has been attempted repeatedly for the last 40 years and weak everytime. You somehow seem to discredit the opening sequence by quoting someone who said everyone was dropping like flies to piss or cry as if the film didn't convey that feeling. I got that feeling, but it also has to be realized the Americans won the battle and there was a protaganist to follow so the whole horror was unable to be shown. Kevin Smith has talent, but refuses to show his talent in creating meaningful characters and stories. His characters exist, they are written with intelligence, but are executed for the butt of a dumb joke. Only on Chasing Amy does Smith follow through on what he can do.
Quote from: pookiethecatby the way, i'd just like to add that after reading gt's post on american beauty, i'm convinced of his brilliance.
Thanks...I just hope everyone else is convinced I didn't pay you off.
Just for the record, I'm a fan of Smith as far as Clerks and Chasing Amy go. Dogma used to impress me, and it's still a smart film, but something makes me think it's mostly pretention. Oh, and McQueen, your initial post seems hypocritical to say the least. You accuse fans of PTA of disliking Smith on grounds that Smith discredited Magnolia. But on your post you diss Magnolia right along with Smith, as though you're following his opinion. Face the facts, man, they aren't comparable, and I mean that in a way that PTA makes MUCH better movies that aren't just self-referential humor that no one outside Smith-circles would get (granted, I'm only really referring to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back). As I said, Chasing Amy and Clerks were very nice, but thats 2 of 5. PTA's record is much more solid at this juncture.
Anyone seen Smith's The Flying Car?
Good writing but mediocre performances.
Hated the end, the punch-line. It didn't work at all. It was too obvious he pressured so it came off as very un-funny and stupid.
I've seen it. it's a short-film by the acclaimed director of mallrats and jay & silent bob strike back .
it's hard for me to watch the words "acclaimed director" and "kevin smith" put together in a same phrase... don't get me wrong. i LOVE the guy (the clerks cartoon failure was a GODDAMN shame).
more tomorrow, i'm tired.