This thread is for the aspiring writers, directors, producers, ect.
My goal in life is to work in film, I know I'll make it, no doubt about it. I set and accomplish my goals. So I'm confident that I will write and direct at least one feature film by age 30.
But here's my question.. If you are serious about working in film in the future. Why do you think you will make it? How will you make it?
I personally believe, everyone has a unique route that they take to become, for example, a feature film director. Because the steps that you go through in life to actually direct a feature is different for everyone.
chris
I'd love to be a part of the studio system, getting the resources and backing to realize my stories, but I know it will never happen. I'll have to go the indie route, with private investors and international co-productions, etc.
Simply because I must have final cut. How could I let my baby go in the hands of others who might, ten years down the road, wanna redo it with a hip-hop soundtrack? It's terrifying.
Also I have a wonderful habit of being disagreeable and shooting myself in the foot. Studio heads and money-men generally don't like this.
But I know I have to make films to survive. That's that.
I predict two features minimum by the time I'm 30.
QuoteWhy do you think you will make it in Hollywood?
because i'm not planning work in Hollywood
I am just gonna rely on my real name...it's screams hollywood...well, so I have been told. Screw any actual talent I have, (I will find a bunch of trolls to do the work for me)...it's all about lookin' good on the credits. ha!
i have a HUGE cock -- its works miracles
I don't think I'll make it in Hollywood... maybe Bollywood.
My plan is to take the indie route... I guess reading "Rebel Without a Crew" makes you just grow hate for film schools. I'll spend all my money, spend other peoples money, starve, etc, etc all for the sake of making my movie.
Yeah, I'd fail in Hollywood.
Quote from: BrainSushi"Rebel Without a Crew"
realize that is not the only book out there...thou, it makes sense at times, don't let that one book discourage you man.
trying to "make it" in hollywood would suck cock. all the politics with studio execs fucking other studio execs and if you have one artsy perception and they perhaps for them its something else and then its their way or the highway and your last result is to sell your soul... thats stupid. i'd take the indie route.
but an interesting debate thats not worth making a new thread over since its mostly relevent here: would you sell your soul for hollywood? what i mean is, would you can any artsy films and just make whatever execs hand you even if you know its shit but you just want the big bucks and to be a mainstream name.. what would you choose? now don't say what I'd say, which is "i'd make the big budget pictures and then make the lower budget pictures.." like a cassavetes approach.. or soderbergh.. if you had to choose ONE way.. which one?
if i had to choose, i'd have to say the indie route... while the other way is tempting, i couldn't dare make a Slackers 2.
The reason I know I'll make it is because I haven't given up yet. I, too, am aiming for two to three features by the time I'm thirty.
In response to Cinephile's question, it's something I've pondered many many times. If I got the opportunity to direct, say, the latest Rob Schneider comedy, I don't think I could do it. But when faced with the paycheck, who knows? I could take the whole thing, move back in with my parents, and make a good movie with it. And there are different levels of crap, too -- I would say yes to a horror movie like 13 Ghosts or something on that level, or the latest installment of the Friday series, or something like that. I don't know what my criteria are, I guess some crappy movies seem less demeaning than others.
But since I'm planning on taking the indie route, it's pretty much a moot point.
Awesome, this topic is right in my wheelhouse.
- Why do I think I'll make it?
Because I've given myself no other options and have been working towards this for too many years to count. I've found many acquaintances that haven't 'made it' yet, and are struggling worse than I am, are having trouble b/c they aren't 100 percent devoted. They spend too much time going out, watching tv, playing video games, hanging out w/ significant others, etc. Very little time spent on what they're out here for in the first place! As for me, I still have my optomism, b/c I have had some minor successes so far, and I'm still a young lad. Getting there slowly, but surely.
- How will you make it?
I want to direct (who doesn't), but my shorts from school weren't flashy enough to land me dick, and I knew it. So I decided to write my way in. I started seriously devoting my time to writing scripts the last two years of school and hustled them out there. By no means did I write a *commercial* movie, but it got me a studio meeting about a month after moving out here, and that lead me to getting a director involved. I got extremely lottery-ticket-winning-lucky here (so I've been told). That director took a liking to me, and even though that movie still hasn't been set-up, he helped me get my next script out there and landed me an agent. Which leads to question three...
- Will you sell your soul to Hollywood?
I *sort of* have already. I needed money and wanted to avoid 'real work' at all costs, so I took a writing assignment I didn't want or like because I wanted to get the experience and money. Nothing spectacular, but I get by... barely. And as for directing, I'm just really working towards setting myself in a position where I can afford to wait-it-out for the indie movie I want to do myself. In the meantime, I'll be a prostitute of sorts.
That's awesome, Weak2ndAct, which leads me to a revision of my original post:
I am very open to whoring myself out as a writer. I take writing very seriously...but it's easier to overlook a screenplay for a crappy movie than direction for a crappy movie. It would be less of an indictment against my integrity...I think.
I agree with the above two posts.
I'd like to do some writing for others if I could. It seems to be my strength -- the writing part of it. Too bad I have no clue how to get an agent.
I guess this question depends on what your idea of "making it" is? Does it mean making the film you have always wanted to make? What if it gets turned down by all the festivals and the only person who sees it are your friends and relatives? Will you have made it? Or maybe it means succeeding in getting a lot of people to see your work? But what if it goes through the critical ringer? Will you have made it then? Surely most people on this board don't associate making it with being able to afford an expensive car. I know I don't. I'm being serious. I think the ultimate compliment would be to have a loyal following of people erect a website in your honor. No shit. For me, though, I guess making it would be to support myself financially without having to compromise my artistic integrity.
Ghostboy: That's 100 percent what my thinking is. It's a heck of a lot easier to take my name off/change it and hide my involvement than it is if I were the director. Some of the stink still might be there, but it beats having the total blame on your shoulders. The worst part though: having to lie and act like you care. Just feels weird and crummy. But it is good experience trying to clean up someone's mess and write something that you normally wouldn't.
SoNowThen: I wrote this somewhere else before, but my best advice about agents is: align yourself with someone who is a client at an agency, which by no means is easy to accomplish (2nd tier option-- assistants are a good 'in' as well, they're bloodthirsty and want the bump-up). When you have someone who is making the agency money give you the thumbs up, you're off and running. My script was sitting in an agent's pile for what seemed like an eternity, unread. The client put the fire under everyone's ass, then I got reads.
Here's the thing: agents say they don't wanna even talk to me unless I've been produced before. A few said maybe, if I have several polished scripts. Well, I have one finished script, one first draft of another, and two other in treatment stage (not including 3 shitty scripts I wrote that I don't really wanna show anybody). Working a full time job to pay bills, plus making a short film a year, plus writing a scipt doesn't leave much time for writing MULTIPLE other scripts. That's the frustrating part. Will agents listen to multiple pitches and whatnot, rather than demanding several polished scripts?
Oh the problem with all these projects is that I wanna direct them too. That could be a hitch...
More good advice: never sleep.
I've weened myself down to 6 hours a night. It's the least I can get and still be rested enough to concentrate on movies.
SoNowThen: Well, it sounds like you're on the right track so far in terms of getting things done. First off, I would say get that '1st draft' script super-polished and finished, b/c agents will want to see more than one piece of material to make sure you're not a one-hit-wonder and to see your range and/or talent. I don't think pitches and treatments will do the job-- they do more so once your already in 'the door.' Speaking of 'the door,' a great script will kick down all of them, despite whether or not you've been produced. As for sticking to your guns and directing your scripts, be prepared to wait it out. It takes forever and a day. There are always exceptions to the rule, of course.
The best piece of advice I've ever gotten: when you're starting out, you shouldn't necessarily take the stance that you've got to direct everything you've written or else. Compromise sucks, but if you can't write yourself something better down the road, you'll have bigger problems than whether or not you should direct that first script (the struggles of young Tarantino are a good example-- he sold/optioned his first few scripts, decided that Reservoir Dogs was going to be 'the one').
Ok to clarify to everyone, about my statements...
When I said, "Why do you think you will make it in Hollywood?"
I wasen't very specific, but Ill make it alittle clearer so there is no confusion for the next posters..
I was probly alittle too general... This isn't really a Hollywood, indie type of thing. What I mean by "making it" is writing or directing your own movie. And actually having this movie in circulation to a large viewing public. (aka in theaters across the world!)
chris
What exactly are you trying to say?
ill never make it. i wont even try
Quote from: ThecowgoooesmoooOk to clarify to everyone, about my statements...
When I said, "Why do you think you will make it in Hollywood?"
I wasen't very specific, but Ill make it alittle clearer so there is no confusion for the next posters..
I was probly alittle too general... This isn't really a Hollywood, indie type of thing. What I mean by "making it" is writing or directing your own movie. And actually having this movie in circulation to a large viewing public. (aka in theaters across the world!)
If I get what you're asking here, then every answer to your question will inevitably end up being "Because I'm a genius." or "I'm awesome." Everyone thinks this, but the how/why/where/when/who's are the interesting Q's.
On a serious note...and 2nd act, I appreciate your honesty...but all of you that said you wouldn't sell your soul...that you need "Final Cut" (sorry SoNowThen, that was just the first example that came to mind, but there are more) are straight full of shit. Most of this board is so hungry for film that you can not honestly tell me that if Joel Silver offered you a cool 2 million (which is a huge salary for a director, if I am not mistaken) to direct some degenerate piece of crap like Bad Boys 5, you all wouldn't ask him if he had the KY jelly or if you should pick sum up on yer own. Seriously...the biz is about money....and thou it may seem fun to make the movie you always wanted to....it probably won't pay the bills. Honestly, I don't mean to discourage anyone, but really...if I was offered sumthing insane like that to do a shit ass summer blockbuster....I would bend over backwards and say, "least kiss me first sir." Then take that fat paycheck and make "my" movie.
...and for sum reason throughout this whole blabberin' bunch of shit...all I can think about is Ratner, that fucker.
Quote from: GhostboyThat's awesome, Weak2ndAct, which leads me to a revision of my original post:
I am very open to whoring myself out as a writer. I take writing very seriously...but it's easier to overlook a screenplay for a crappy movie than direction for a crappy movie. It would be less of an indictment against my integrity...I think.
To make my name famous, I'd whore my writing ability, you kidding me? Indie directing would be great, but wouldn't it just be fantastic to have a message board dedicated to you, then get shafted so people mostly talk about you but otherwise talk about other good movies?
Quote from: aclockworkjjHonestly, I don't mean to discourage anyone, but really...if I was offered sumthing insane like that to do a shit ass summer blockbuster....I would bend over backwards and say, "least kiss me first sir." Then take that fat paycheck and make "my" movie.
Not directed at you jj, but just responding to what everyone is saying in general about this same matter:
Who says that summer action films have to be shit and you have to go along with the script they gave you? Do a rewrite and make it better than the run of the mill popcorn flick. Put your own spin on things. Remember, if you got to that point to where they want to hire you, you have some pull.
i agree with the last two posts. how am i going to make it? im only seventeen, i dont know. i just wanna fuckin make movies all my life.
Quote from: ewardi just wanna fuckin make movies all my life.
I just wanna fuck and make movies all my life.
Why do I think I can make it? I dunno. All I know is that films like Office Space and American Splendor make me not want to give up the dream. I won't necessarily end up as a file clerk, but I don't want to be stuck in some job I hate just for the paycheck.
OTOH, I'd hate to become the next Adam Shankman just for the paycheck.
Quote from: MacGuffinNot directed at you jj, but just responding to what everyone is saying in general about this same matter:
listen here you fucko!!!!! (TM goddamn, or maybe sigur)...j/k
...no, I know what you mean, as I think you at least got the jist of what I was saying....but an explosion (say a car) can be very limited as far as artistic value goes. Besides Mac...do you really believe the director in these sorts of films have final say? It would be grand, don't get me wrong, as I am a sucker for cool lookin' action flicks too...but more often than not, I think the director is just a pawn that the "money guys" are milking for actual talent they wish they pocessed.
The point is...yes, if you have the freedom, most of the time people will see it your way (I know this all too well even in my own little job currently), but gettin' that freedom is not so easily obtainable.
Quote from: aclockworkjjbut an explosion (say a car) can be very limited as far as artistic value goes. Besides Mac...do you really believe the director in these sorts of films have final say? It would be grand, don't get me wrong, as I am a sucker for cool lookin' action flicks too...but more often than not, I think the director is just a pawn that the "money guys" are milking for actual talent they wish they pocessed.
Yes, but how did the explosion happen? That's how to make it your own.
Look, I'm not saying turn it into a drama, but you can in a way reinvent it, even if it's just fleshing out the characters. I believe if you had a convincing meeting with the studio heads and made you case for what you want to do and gain their trust, it wouldn't have to come down to a battle in the editing room. Then I would think one would be smart enough in that position to not be all self-centered, say 'fuck them' and not know ultimately what kind of genre film he/she is making.
But I'm the next Kubrick, they'll have to see that right away
Quote from: MacGuffinconvincing meeting with the studio heads and made you case for what you want to do and gain their trust, it
all I can say is good luck. It sounds simple enough, but.....
Sorry that this has turned into our discussion.
..but Mac, are you really that naive? Do you really think the director is
always calling the shots? xpecially in that of a big budget action film?
btw
Quote from: poserBut I'm the next Kubrick, they'll have to see that right away
try pitchin' that notion...even back it up with an arthouse flick like Clockwork....see what happens. I wish the best of luck. (realize I know you were jokin'...but.)
Yes, I am that naive, that's why I'm posting about it here instead of actually doing it. Thank you showing how stupid I am.
Quote from: MacGuffinThank you showing how stupid I am.
I don't think you are stupid at all...quite the opposite.
All I'm saying it can be done. I think you have the idea that studio heads are narrowminded. They can be convinced. Hell, pitch meetings are about convincing the person who greenlights films to buy your concept. And you missed my part about the director knowing he is not always in charge because he has to realize what kind of film he's making and who it's for.
But who am I to give advice; a struggling writer/director that most likely will die alone with nothing to show for his career.
Quote from: MacGuffinAnd you missed my part about the director knowing he is not always in charge because he has to realize what kind of film he's making and who it's for.
indeed I did...where is it?... as 100 times sorry for missin' it.
QuoteBut who am I to give advice; a struggling writer/director that most likely will die alone with nothing to show for his career.
you shut up now!!!
that's a shitty attitude mr.....do with it what you will.... if you get a free moment....let's have a drink, ....but to take that attitude means you have already failed. Come on Mac...you are sounding along da lines of Cecil.
hello
xixax.com aint big enough for two of me
Further proof of my unoriginality.
Back to topic to rid the thread of more self-loathing.
Mac & JJ,
Yes yes, action movies can be great. And yes, asking for final cut is having balls as big as, well.... really big balls.
But I think I can honestly say that I would be happy pulling in $25 grand a year (Canadian dollars), and getting to make the movies I wanna make (which means that they'll all be under $5 million budgets). Something like a Jarmusch-type career. Not that I love all his movies, but I like that he does his own thing, gets investors to pay his little bills, etc.
I'd LOVE however, to do uncredited re-writes on huge budget flicks. Like you said Mac, to spruce them up (like what Mamet did for Ronin). But I just would rather experiment with narrative and filmic technique than bend backwards to come up with a happy ending for some studio heads (Before The Revolution as opposed to Pretty Woman -- yet I like both movies).
I think Godard has shown us that no matter how bizarre you demand to make films, if you keep your budgets low and crew small and always meet deadlines, you can create quite a unique body of work and be self-fulfilled and make a living.
Exactly.
John Sayles might be an even better example of someone who does a lot of big budget rewrite work. Mimic, The Mummy, and Apollo 13 and The Alamo too.
I feel like ranting about how discouraging the last few weeks have been, and I'm not sure why but this seems like the thread to do it in. I'm beginning to feel like I really wasn't made for the film industry. I'm simply too shy in new situations. All those bad things you hear about film school seem to be true. I think if it weren't for my need of technical information I'd have dropped out or transferred already. I'm just staying because next year I want to be able to shoot on 16mm and most other schools don't let you do that until your last year. This seems ridiculous, though, because with the exorbitant tuition fees I could just go rent a camera for myself. It feels like I'm the only person here on a scholarship because nobody else seems nearly as concerned about money. Now this has just turned into a big anti film school rant. Sorry.
In spite of all this, every time I watch a great movie I know I want to be involved. I think my new plan might be to pursue the computer animation route in spite of my lackluster drawing abilities. That way, I figure, I can keep a non-film day job and still make my own movies on the side. Maybe I could eventually start up a little animation production company to produce shorts and commercials if I get the funds.
BonBon: All the greatest filmmakers were hermitic introverts. Kubrick, Allen ... um, um, that other guy who made that movie ... you know the one!
Well, you get the idea. :-D
Me, I don't care to make it in Hollywood. I just want to make films I like. Being true to that voice, I feel, is the best way to find an audience who will appreciate your films as well. The money would be nice, but it can't be what you're seeking, or the quality of your work will suffer.
BonBon--
How long have you been in school? I ask, because I myself was in a similar situation. When I got to school I didn't know as much technical stuff as my classmates, I'd never done a 'real' short with a crew, or had a real film job. They all had experience, and I felt like all I had was a bunch of film-geek knowledge and a penchant for nerd-dom. From the big talk by the students, and the brow-beating by the teachers (at our school, you had to basically audition to get into the directing program and were told, you're not good enough, don't bother). Very early on, I thought about quitting and resigned myself to being an editor at best.
However... It took about a year for me to really figure things out. And as time went on, I got a little more confident... I worked hard and paid attention to everything that went on. *Here's the egotistical part, sorry* I soon came to the conclusion that I was much smarter than everyone else. I cared more. I could really do this if I wanted to. I shook off what trepidations and shyness I had and went balls-out for what I wanted. Worked my ass off, made decent films. Got into the directing program. Moved out to LA, doing okay now.
In short, if you really want this-- don't bail now. You're close. I know many people who was going through what you are now. Some are happy and doing okay. Some really, really regret it. Some bitch all the time.
Quote from: BonBon85In spite of all this, every time I watch a great movie I know I want to be involved. I think my new plan might be to pursue the computer animation route in spite of my lackluster drawing abilities. That way, I figure, I can keep a non-film day job and still make my own movies on the side. Maybe I could eventually start up a little animation production company to produce shorts and commercials if I get the funds.
Sorry to do this Bon Bon...but if anyone of you haven't checked out her website...do so (well, unless she gets mad at me for saying so, then don't). It's sweet!! The animation thing is definately not something you should be down about...cause from what I have seen you got the skills. Now matter what you are doing...it's gonna get discouraging...just don't let it be your downfall. Slaps of reality are everywhere...but it's then that you need to kick reality right back in the ass...and do something for you, and only you (even if it's a little animation about how 1950's soda culture takes over the world :wink: ). And you (as well as others) will find that is where your greatest assets will shine. Some of the best work is done out of sheer frustration and agony.
I'll make it in Hollywood because my cat is best friend's with this mosquito that often flutters to the house of a gaffer who once considered working on Steven Spielberg's "The Sugarland Express", but opted not to because he thought it would be a waste of time and the director would amount to nothing in the business but a straight-to-video hack. And this plan is infallible man. It guarantees 5 features by the age of 28. AT least 5!
nope. Never.