i got this theroy and let me try this out
i think people like trick endings in their movies
a trick ending can take a ok movie and turn it into a great film for some people
two examples ususal suspects and rules of attraction
when that chick in rules hops in the bath tub, every one gets silent when they flash back and show her earlier in the movie and it effects the rest of the movie
well the call me Dick scene owned that movie, but that tub scene and what it meant haunted the audience
so my point is it could be a easy way to win over a crowd whil writting a script throw in a trick ending, it can make bad writting come across as " writting we just didnt get at the time"
so more examples ? and ideas
Except sometimes people will see a movie with a trick ending as only having a trick ending. I personally think Usual Suspects is a great all around movie, but others seem to gloss over the entire movie and only concentrate on the ending.
Most of the time I find it a shitty easy way out excuse for a stupid story up until that point.
eg. Sixth Sense
Fuck did I hate that movie.
But I love when a writer builds up an ending but you totally don't see all the connectors until the ending happens. Then you get the recall in your head, going over the last hour and a half in two seconds. That's wonderful.
eg. Glengarry Glen Ross
Quote from: SoNowThenMost of the time I find it a shitty easy way out excuse for a stupid story up until that point.
eg. Sixth Sense
Fuck did I hate that movie.
But I love when a writer builds up an ending but you totally don't see all the connectors until the ending happens. Then you get the recall in your head, going over the last hour and a half in two seconds. That's wonderful.
eg. Glengarry Glen Ross
sixth sense perfect example of what i mean, that is the perfect example of what i am talking about
by the way i love when people respond to my non comedy/being mean posts, im a normal film fan and i have questions too , its not all jokes and put downs, allthough i am great at that , but i bring more then just that , im complex .
but all people want from me is one thing
i feel like marty sometimes, i want to stretch out but all you people want is more of the same
Marty- " fuck doing another mafia movie im making age of inosense"
studio boss- " who will watch that shit"
marty- " i wil, just me"
studio boss- " just you ??? ::quiet lull:: , ...... and thats all that will see it"
marty- "yep"
studio boss - "ohhh ok"
marty- " now give me 100 million dollers to make this film"
This issue was discussed as well in Adaptation: the last act is the part of the movie the audience will remember when walking out of the theatre.
And if that final part has a surprising or "revealing" element, the film will have a greater impression.
Yesterday, I saw the Godard/Lang Interview on the Criterion disc of Le mépris: they quoted another director (forgot his name) who said that people don't watch movies with their eyes, but with their belly. And if the film is crap, the belly doesn't remember that. So bring in a trick ending and everyone will be pleased and satisfied, for film is (also) a sequence of ephemeral stills. There may be truth in the cinematographic image, 24 times a second, but it is a truth that does not persist, nor does it want to, nor does the audience want it to persist. That is the blessing and the curse of cinema: you are given the chance of being an observer, the ultimate peeping tom who gazes trough the celluloid hole, but who cannot remember what he sees. Thus, you cannot judge.
that interview (dinosaur and baby) is one of my favs
this thing about endings we've been discussing, it just makes it all the more important to make sure when we write endings to our movies, we make them payoff and come out as great as possible. because like mckee says, an audience will always forgive the rest of the shitty movie as long as the ending is satisfying. but i don't think satisfying means we have to resort to dumb tricks. just work harder to write better...
as easy as it sounds and hard as it actually is...
Quote from: chriskelvinThis issue was discussed as well in Adaptation: the last act is the part of the movie the audience will remember when walking out of the theatre.
And if that final part has a surprising or "revealing" element, the film will have a greater impression.
Yesterday, I saw the Godard/Lang Interview on the Criterion disc of Le mépris: they quoted another director (forgot his name) who said that people don't watch movies with their eyes, but with their belly. And if the film is crap, the belly doesn't remember that. So bring in a trick ending and everyone will be pleased and satisfied, for film is (also) a sequence of ephemeral stills. There may be truth in the cinematographic image, 24 times a second, but it is a truth that does not persist, nor does it want to, nor does the audience want it to persist. That is the blessing and the curse of cinema: you are given the chance of being an observer, the ultimate peeping tom who gazes trough the celluloid hole, but who cannot remember what he sees. Thus, you cannot judge.
I find this to be a load of crap myself. Case in point: Swimming Pool - a film with a twist ending, but a rather weak film all around. The dialogue and happenings were laughable all the way through, and the twist didn't change or heighten my opinion of the film. It was just weak. I'm sure SoNowThen feels the same way about The Sixth Sense.
On the other hand, we have The Usual Suspects, a film notorious for its twist ending. I love watching the final scenes of the film myself, but looking back at the whole, the film doesn't really hold too much water. The film is decent because of the intrigue set up, and the pay off at the end, but the problem is when you look at things at a whole, a lot of it just doesn't make sense.
It's unfortunate that some people remember only how a film ends, because really, if the rest of the film is empty, you're appreciating or hating it for the wrong reason. I remember the whole movie, not just the closing minutes of the "final act."
Of course, a dumb film with a good ending will always remain thta, objectively. So the goal would be to write great picture with an even better ending. But is the ending really that important?
Only when you want to write a film that lives from its narrative structure. And, sticking to Godard and the interview, as a writer/director, you have to decide what kind of movies do you want to make. I always found that films which had no "proper" ending, no closing chapter, whose story just faded out, instead of detonating in "the" final scene, a happy end, or a trick ending, were the most interesting and fascinating.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaI find this to be a load of crap myself.
That was not my personal opinion, I was just discussing the way (most) people react to movies.
I personally believe it is just poor (and lazy) storytelling to not give a resolution of some kind (or leave on a point) in a film. even in a non-linear film, let's use Pulp Fiction as an example, Tarantino jumps time, but he saves the episode with the greatest impact for the end, even though chronologically it occurs before a lot of the other parts. but being a naturally great storyteller, he saves this part for the end, where the redemptive aspect is strongest. so while I don't care if the ending is a "be all end all" tying up of everything, I do think there must be a point to which the film (not the story in terms of chronology, but the ideas we were presented) leads up to and finishes on.
Quote from: chriskelvinQuote from: OnomatopoeiaI find this to be a load of crap myself.
That was not my personal opinion, I was just discussing the way (most) people react to movies.
I know. I wouldn't have called it a "load of crap" if it was your opinion. When it's from someone as renowned as Godard, and he says something as stupid as that, then calling it a load of crap is pretty much obligatory. ;)
And in my writing, I'm drawn more to the "slice of life" type stories. So most of the time, trying to make some big impact at the end, goes against the grain. For me, it's all about the stuff along the way. Sure you want to tie things up at the end, but for me, endings aren't as traditional, happy, and neat and tied up as most people would like them. Rather unpopular I know, but more satisfying to me, because every story's end is some other story's beginning.
That's actually a pretty good point. You should share it with that guy who made 6th Sense and Unbreakable.....
Quote from: Sigur RósThat's actually a pretty good point. You should share it with that guy who made 6th Sense and Unbreakable.....
Who were you talking to? About what?
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaQuote from: chriskelvinQuote from: OnomatopoeiaI find this to be a load of crap myself.
That was not my personal opinion, I was just discussing the way (most) people react to movies.
I know. I wouldn't have called it a "load of crap" if it was your opinion. When it's from someone as renowned as Godard, and he says something as stupid as that, then calling it a load of crap is pretty much obligatory. ;)
Alright... :)
But note that Godard did not say that himself: he (or was it Lang?) quoted someone. They were discussing this issue.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaWho were you talking to? About what?
How dare you ask...
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaAnd in my writing, I'm drawn more to the "slice of life" type stories. So most of the time, trying to make some big impact at the end, goes against the grain. For me, it's all about the stuff along the way. Sure you want to tie things up at the end, but for me, endings aren't as traditional, happy, and neat and tied up as most people would like them. Rather unpopular I know, but more satisfying to me, because every story's end is some other story's beginning.
But look at the great slice of life stories like Tender Mercies or Melvin And Howard. Very quiet, mature endings, but carry huge impact. Huge. They're not big and explosive and obvious, but the implications are. That's good writing. That's command of form and craft. If the last 15 min of your story aren't meaningful, then you'd better come up with something new.
what i was talking about films like the sixth sense , you guys are taking this to other places
Quote from: AlguienEstolamiPantaloneswhat i was talking about films like the sixth sense , you guys are taking this to other places
Only a true mambo-brother would understand you.