Article in The Los Angeles Times about the upcoming John Holmes film:
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In "Wonderland," Val Kilmer plays John Holmes opposite Lisa Kudrow, left, as his wife, Sharon, and Kate Bosworth as his girlfriend, Dawn Schiller. "He remained absolutely loyal to Sharon and Dawn," Kilmer says of Holmes.
Ties that forever bind
Porn star John Holmes' two great loves see their lives replay during filming of 'Wonderland.'
The scene playing out before cameras at the front picket gate of a Craftsman-style house in the Altadena foothills sounds like a familiar one: A put-upon wife says adios to her no-good husband, she thinks -- she hopes -- for the last time. But there are also some unorthodox elements -- the husband's teenage girlfriend waiting mere feet away in a black Chevy Malibu; that the steely-eyed wife is bankrolling the pair's flight from town; that her protective sense is directed more at the wayward youth in the car than at her husband; and last but not least, hubby's connection to a quadruple murder that would become one of Los Angeles' most notorious unsolved crimes. Which makes the man in this triangle pornography's most famous and infamous name, John Holmes.
The movie being filmed is "Wonderland," a crime docudrama named after the Laurel Canyon street on which in 1981 police discovered five steel-pipe-bludgeoned bodies -- four dead, one barely alive -- in a residence that was a thriving narcotics enclave. The established wisdom is that the bloodbath was a score-settling between drug gangs that Holmes was playing against each other, but a large chunk of the speculation, greatly increased since Holmes died of AIDS complications in 1988, focuses on the exact role the X-rated star played in the murders. Did he just lead the killers there? Did he take a few swings? Was he coerced?
The flashback-heavy L.A. noir on display in the "Wonderland" script makes for a "Rashomon"-style gonzo tour through the tangled versions of events that have tripped up investigators ever since, but what is constant is that the John C. Holmes depicted here is a far cry from Johnny Wadd, as his prodigiously endowed on-screen persona was known. As a shaggy-haired Val Kilmer manifests him today, slobbed out in faded jeans, tattered green jacket and sunglasses, Holmes is not adult film's acknowledged Porn King. He's a pathetic hustler-addict in the law's spotlight, desperate to keep the last two people on Earth who care about him -- the wife who'd been his platonic confidante for more than a decade, and the naive, doe-eyed mistress too caught up to ignore his flaws -- from abandoning him. Because "Wonderland" -- projected for a summer 2003 release -- is also, oddly enough, a kind of fractured love story.
"I'll get you the money back," Kilmer-as-Holmes mutters to his wife, stuffing an envelope of cash into his pocket. "Stop lying to me, John," says a dark-haired, severe-looking Lisa Kudrow as Sharon Holmes, the words crisply harsh, like a parent's to a hopelessly immature child. "It's a payoff. You understand that term, right? I'm paying you off to stay out of my life."
'He was a real romantic'
The 23-day shooting schedule on this under-$10-million Lions Gate production means that even emotionally tense scenes such as this must be bagged and tagged quickly to stay apace. Director James Cox, a focused, tousle-haired 27-year-old with the air of a hippie scientist, admits he's saving himself for the crescendo being filmed that night: Holmes' surprise appearance at his wife's house after the murders, bloodied and distraught.
"It's a real meat grinder of a story," says Cox. "You get exhausted."
Later, after the sun has disappeared, an antsy but good-natured Kilmer can be found in his fake-blood-dappled trailer down the street, biding time until he's called to shoot his big confessional scene. Of its gruesome intensity he jokes, "It's the worst." But even though he's in a movie full of dope peddlers, users, murderers and thieves, he finds that Holmes' relationships with Sharon and girlfriend Dawn Schiller -- played by Kate Bosworth -- make "Wonderland" legitimately emotional.
"He was a real romantic," Kilmer says of Holmes. "He really loved his girlfriend, and he was still friends with his wife, who wouldn't let him in her bed anymore after she found out he was doing pornography. He definitely was a tortured soul who did a lot of awful things to everybody, betrayed everyone in his business, every dealer he met, but he remained absolutely loyal to Sharon and Dawn."
The love affair between Kilmer and "Wonderland," however, took a while to develop. For as long as Cox, co-screenwriter Captain Mauzner and producer Holly Wiersma were shopping their screenplay -- a heavily researched reconfiguration of an earlier John Holmes script by two different writers -- Kilmer was their ideal Holmes. Wiersma cites the actor's seductive way with less-than-reputable characters like Jim Morrison ("The Doors") and Doc Holliday ("Tombstone") as a big part of their narrowing in on Kilmer. Holmes "in the script is not very likable, so there has to be something about him that's charming, and Val, every time he smiles, you see that," says Wiersma. "Without his charm, it wouldn't have worked."
The actor persistently refused to read it, however. No matter that other talent was lining up to take parts (Kudrow, Bosworth, plus Dylan McDermott, Josh Lucas, Janeane Garofalo, Tim Blake Nelson and Carrie Fisher) or that indie stalwart Lions Gate was passionate about it, or even that Kilmer's own people wanted to see it happen.
The sordidness of Holmes' world was enough to keep Kilmer away, as well as more than 20 other actors who flirted with the role, including Matt Dillon, Christian Bale, Jason Patric and Gary Oldman. Frustration settling in, Wiersma and Kilmer's agent Cassian Elwes collaborated on a bait-and-switch to nab Elwes' client. They offered him the small but flashy role of Palestinian-born racketeer Eddie Nash, tried twice in court as the guy who greenlighted the killings. Kilmer bit.
"So he reads it and goes, 'Don't you think I should play John Holmes?' " recalls Wiersma, laughing. "Then he's like, 'But we have to go into pre-production today because I have another movie.' So in September it just happened." (Eric Bogosian took the part of Nash.)
Meanwhile, during the 10 months Kilmer was being pursued, Cox was doing his best to bolster his movie's cachet by getting the two key women in Holmes' life involved. A trip to Dawn Schiller's home in Northern California went so well that she helped get Sharon Holmes -- the porn star's first wife, whom she'd stayed in touch with -- to become a de facto advisor too.
Recalls Cox, "By the time I did sit with Val, I was ready to put John Holmes' wedding ring in his hand and say, 'This is how deep the rabbit hole goes, all the way down.' " Sharon's and Dawn's commitment, Cox knew, would convince Kilmer that "Wonderland" wasn't a rehash of a porn star's wretched doings. Cox told the actor, "There's a confession going on in this film."
Watching their younger selves
In the backyard of the house, where video replay monitors and an assortment of directors' chairs are arranged in a semicircle, Dawn Schiller and Sharon Holmes sit and watch their past lives unfold. "Cathartic doesn't cover it, you know?" says Schiller, 15 when she met Holmes and now a fortysomething mom working on her real estate license, but dressed nostalgically today like an ageless love child in a psychedelic-print top and jeans.
"This was some traumatic stuff for me at an early age, and I've had to process some big things, but this is part of the stuff that molds me today," Schiller says. "This is about facing who I am."
Throughout the shoot, Bosworth has frequently and happily consulted with Schiller about you-were-there details. Says the actress, "She wasn't just this cracked-out girl dating John Holmes. She was an innocent in a not so innocent world." Bosworth says the best insight Schiller has given her is into "how much she loved him, in spite of everything. She's an inspiration to me, because she proves that strength and goodness can conquer anything."
The movie will end with Holmes spiriting Schiller out of California, but the rosiness of the real love story ended abruptly after, with Schiller a battered and paranoid emotional hostage in Miami who eventually turned Holmes in to the authorities. Sharon Holmes, seeing a victim of her husband's poisoned charm when she saw one, made sure she and Schiller nurtured each other back to normalcy. "I consider her my daughter, my one and only child," says Sharon, whose short-cropped white hair and near-toothlessness give her the mien of a hard-lived grandmother.
"The best thing I could say that happened out of my relationship with John is Dawn. But I was mature. I can understand her falling in love with him. I never saw the vicious side of him, but she did. She got the good and the bad. I had the good and I chose not to have the bad."
After the morning's shoot, Kudrow exchanges a few words with her real-life counterpart, who tells the "Friends" star she has the "iron maiden" part of her down. "I was nervous until she said that," says Kudrow, who detects a fierce sense of obligation in Sharon's decision to stay married to a man whose profession repulsed her. "She said that armor was the only way to get through it. You just have to be stoic."
As for how Kilmer approximates the man they last saw roughly 20 years ago, Schiller and Sharon Holmes agree on his authenticity. "Initially I was amazed," says Schiller. "Then I was creeped out."
"It freaked me out," adds Sharon. "It really did spook me."
Jokes about Holmes' ghost became something of a game during shooting. When Schiller's cell phone rings nearby as Bosworth is answering a reporter's questions about her, the "Blue Crush" star quips, "See, John Holmes is sending down messages."
The following week, during filming in the historic Herald Examiner building downtown, the rafters above the set caught fire. "Since it was David Lind's interrogation, which is the counterpoint to John Holmes' version of events," says Cox, referring to the biker who initially cooperated with police, "the joke was that Johnny wouldn't let that side of the story come out."
As far as anyone knows, John Holmes never filed a review from the beyond about "Boogie Nights," Paul Thomas Anderson's 1997 razzle-dazzle porn epic that borrowed bits of the adult film star's life for its fictional tale. But that movie was about how surrogate families develop, even among sleaze purveyors. " 'Boogie Nights' is wonderful, but it's a nice iced tea," says Kilmer. "We're shooting heroin."
When "Wonderland" starts, Holmes' sex film heyday is a thing of the past; coked out and unreliable, he has seen his reputation in the industry that made him shattered. That's why Kilmer feels safe calling "Wonderland" an unusual romance and a morality play. "It's quite a vivid dramatization of what happens when you try to get satisfaction exclusively from the senses," he says. "It just doesn't work."
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Suspect: John C. Holmes is released from L.A. County Jail in 1982 after going before a grand jury. He was acquitted at murder trial.
The crime: On July 1, 1981, the bodies of Ronald Launius, William DeVerell, Barbara Richardson and Jo Audrey Miller were found beaten to death with a steel pipe in the 8700 block of Wonderland Avenue. Launius' wife, Susan, survived with severe head injuries and could never identify the attackers. It was the first time the LAPD used videotape to record a crime scene.
The investigation: John Holmes' role as a go-between for the Wonderland drug gang and nightclub owner/racketeer Adel Nasrallah, a.k.a. Eddie Nash, led to his arrest in Florida six months after the murders. He was interrogated twice, and reportedly told police he was ordered by Nasrallah to lead the killers to the house as part of a revenge scenario. In 1988, after Holmes' death, his first wife, Sharon, told The Times that shortly after the murders Holmes confessed the details of his involvement, which included being forced to watch the killings.
The trials: Holmes was tried in 1982 for the murders and acquitted. Nasrallah was charged in 1988 for the slayings, tried in 1990, but freed due to a hung jury. In 2001, at age 72, he pleaded guilty to some counts and no contest to a rash of anti-racketeering charges, including conspiracy to commit the Wonderland murders, and spent eight months in a federal detention center, according to the Justice Department.
VKN reports that Val Kilmer was honored at the San Jose Film Festival with the Maverick Spirit Award, and it seems part of the festivities included a sneak peek at scenes from his upcoming film in which he stars as porn legend John Holmes: "There were three scenes: John Holmes (Kilmer) talking to the police about turning states evidence. Second scene: Holmes and Dawn Schiller (Kate Bosworth) open a duffle and find a stash of cocaine. Holmes and Schiller proceed to help themselves to the stash and things quickly get heated between the two (in the bathroom no less) until they are discovered by Sally (played by Carrie Fisher), who throws them out of the house. Third scene: a distraught and nervous Homles meets with his wife Sharon (Lisa Kudrow). He tells her he wants her to go into the witness protection program with him and Dawn. She refuses, telling him that she doesn't want anything to do with him. Holmes starts to fall apart. "Don't you dare cry," she barks at him. "It doesn't work anymore".
i have a strong hunch that this film will alter the truth a lot to get the story they want.
And i so fucking hate that, i hate when they do that.
like in catch me if you can, where the tom hanks character didn't even exist.
If you have to alter the truth so much that you invent main characters to serve your story, don't fucking make the movie. Thats why i respected pta for turning boogie nights into a separate film from the john Holmes story, even though a lot of it was based on john Holmes. Thats my point, if you like a story , stay true to it, if you cant at least be honest about it .
Howard sterns private parts, was presented as a true story about his rise to fame, and 75% of it was made up ?????????????????????????
what the fuck man, i just hope wonderland does not does this.
Sneak trailer taken from Access Hollywood here. (http://www.themoviebox.net/trailers/wonderland.mov)
Wow. That sneak preview looks pretty good.
Hey, Mac, do you know what the release date will be? The article above just says "summer 2003."
Quote from: PawbloeHey, Mac, do you know what the release date will be? The article above just says "summer 2003."
Release Date: September 26th, 2003 (LA/NY); October 17th, 2003 (expands to other cities).
trailer up at apple...
http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/wonderland.html
looks pretty good. although, god, it seems like well worn territory, but i'll see it anyways.
One look at the Dylan McDermott character makes me think of Todd Parker.
one look at Val Kilmer makes me think of Dude, Where's My Career?
Let me take a guess and say that too much monlogue from Kilmer will ruin this movie. It looks like it'll be downright painful.
This looks decent. I think Val Kilmer is too good looking to be John Holmes. Ever see a picture of Holmes? He's uglier than a bag of assholes.
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cool poster if everybody hasnt seen it yet...
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Quote from: themodernage02cool poster if everybody hasnt seen it yet...
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is this the sequal to Boogie Nights?
Quote from: Banky
is this the sequal to Boogie Nights?
yes, Banky. Wonderland is the sequel to Boogie Nights.
dont trust that guy. its actually a remake
...i know how to make this film flop and loose every ounce of cred..
.... :arrow: if the song by john mayer "body is a wonderland" is heard anywhere in this film...
edit: :wink:
Quote from: NEON MERCURY...i know how to make this film flop and loose every once of cred..
.... :arrow: if the song by john mayer "body is a wonderland" is heard anywhere in this film...
The word of the day is "Ounce."
Quote from: dufresneQuote from: Banky
is this the sequal to Boogie Nights?
yes, Banky. Wonderland is the sequel to Boogie Nights.
i was kidding but thanks
I was watching BIg urban Myth Show and it says that Mark Walburg has a 3rd nipple and that you can see it in Boogie Nights.
Quote from: Banky
I was watching BIg urban Myth Show
.that show has good information but the way the idiot raps it out is so stupid/mtv-ish.....
So I went to a screening of this movie my school had on Friday. It was kind of funny because the very first question somebody asked the director was essentially "why did you make this when Boogie Nights covered most of this". The movie's another one of those new drug films that feels the need to constantly speed up and slow down. I found the dialogue in the movie to be rather trite (especially from the Dylan McDermot character). And there's a long steadicam shot in a party scene.
Uh-oh. I'm beginning to get a bad feeling about this film.
From USA Today's Mike Clark:
But overall, the movie is as bankrupt as Holmes' wallet must have been near the end when he died of AIDS-related illness in 1988. Holmes was the inspiration for Mark Wahlberg's character in 1997's Boogie Nights, and you still have to marvel at Nights writer/director Paul Thomas Anderson for taking this subculture and coming up with the best movie of its year.
Saw Wonderland over the weekend. It's not a bad movie, but the material and melieu are so well-trodden, and there's simply nothing new added this time. The Rashomon-type narrative was really unnecessary here, and if one felt compelled to go and tell this story, there should have been some fresher elements added to the mix. If they couldn't find a better, more interesting way to tell it, it didn't need to be done at all.
It's OK overall, it's not insultingly horrible or something you'd walk out of, but nothing to rush right out and see immedately either. You won't be kicking yourself if you even wait for DVD. I thought Kilmer was fine, but nothing revalatory, and it's certainly not his best work.
Grade: C+
If you guys want to see the "real" John Holmes, I suggest you watch the documentary "Exhausted"... PTA actually got inspiration for Boogie Nights from this doc, and some of the scenes in Exhausted are copied almost exactly in Boogie Nights.
how r the sex scenes, excellent?
I only remember one quick sex scene at the beginning of the movie and that was it. Not too exciting.
Holmes was out of porn by the time the murders happened at Wonderland. That's not what this movie is about.
In Wonderland, Kilmer's Holmes does bang a chick in Princess Leia's bathroom in the opening minutes, but that's about it.
Quote from: ©badhow r the sex scenes [in Exhausted], excellent?
Quick cuts of Holmes 'most memorable' scenes. A choice cumshot here and there. Mostly lots of bullshit talk from the master himself.
"...borrow a cup of sugar; an occasional fuck..."
If pubic hair frightens you, better pass on this one.
Of course, maybe you're joking about wanting to know, and I'm acting like some crazy freak. Oh well... :-D
Roger Ebert says:
Parts of this story, much altered, have been told already in Paul Thomas Anderson's incomparably better film "Boogie Nights" (1997). Dirk Diggler (Mark Wahlberg) was the Holmes character there, and Heather Graham's Roller Girl is I guess something like Dawn.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/ebert1/wkp-news-wonderland17f.html
I thought this movie was just OK. The last few scenes were just gruesome and left me with a creepy feeling. There were some shots/ concepts that I thought were just a blatant rip from Boogie Nights. Not a bad film though.
Quote from: boombanglarrabeeI thought this movie was just OK. The last few scenes were just gruesome and left me with a creepy feeling.
..PLEASE ELABORATE.....
i don't mind spoiling..or can anyone esle ....?
Quote from: boombanglarrabeeThere were some shots/ concepts that I thought were just a blatant rip from Boogie Nights.
That's because PTA took his shots/concepts for Boogie Nights directly from the REAL John Holmes documentary film, Exhausted... watch Exhausted, then watch Boogie Nights, and you will see who ripped from who (in all due PTA respect, of course...)...
(Highlight if you want to read below)
the last few scenes show John wacking people with lead pipes. The murders are shown in quite wicked detail. It’s just blood splattering every which way. And the sound effects, too were just…. Yuck. I think murder is hard to watch anyway, but I had some weird attachment to the characters, which I can’t figure out cause they were all druggies… but still….
Quote from: TheVoiceOfNick
That's because PTA took his shots/concepts for Boogie Nights directly from the REAL John Holmes documentary film, Exhausted... watch Exhausted, then watch Boogie Nights, and you will see who ripped from who (in all due PTA respect, of course...)...
Forgot about that. How hard is it to find that docu?
thanks..boombanglarrabee....
Quote from: boombanglarrabeeQuote from: TheVoiceOfNick
That's because PTA took his shots/concepts for Boogie Nights directly from the REAL John Holmes documentary film, Exhausted... watch Exhausted, then watch Boogie Nights, and you will see who ripped from who (in all due PTA respect, of course...)...
Forgot about that. How hard is it to find that docu?
You can find it on ebay sometimes...
Quote from: boombanglarrabeeHow hard is it to find that docu?
Click here. (http://www.1million.com/excite-dvd.com/exhaustedframes.html)
Thanks, Mac.
Isn't Paris Hilton in this movie? :shock:
Quote from: Lucinda BryteIsn't Paris Hilton in this movie? :shock:
Does anyone really care?
While it didn't make Boogie Nights-level waves at the box office, on February 10th, Lion's Gate Home Entertainment will give the John Holmes biopic Wonderland another shot on DVD. Starring Val Kilmer as the legendary porn star with a legendary member, this feature-packed special edition includes an anamorphic widescreen transfer, Dolby Digital 5.1 surround track, an audio commentary track with writer and director James Cox (really, no joke) and Kilmer, deleted scenes, a short film, actual crime scene walk-through video, autopsy reports, a still gallery and theatrical trailers. Retail is $26.95.
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..seems like a nice dvd thansk Mac....
btw..'say anything'.... :wink:
So yeah. There's the actual LAPD crime scene video on the dvd. It's pretty fucking gross and unsettling. I can't believe it's actually on the dvd, and I only can imagine the reactions of the poor people who actually stumble upon this, not expecting well... dead bodies with their heads smashed in. And LA cops in gawdy plaid pants. Bizarre.
Quote from: Weak2ndActSo yeah. There's the actual LAPD crime scene video on the dvd. It's pretty fucking gross and unsettling. I can't believe it's actually on the dvd, and I only can imagine the reactions of the poor people who actually stumble upon this, not expecting well... dead bodies with their heads smashed in. And LA cops in gawdy plaid pants. Bizarre.
same thing is on the Autofocus dvd. looks like a new trend.
with the success of gay ass shows like CSI, the public must be hungry for sicker shit.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add:
Nowhere on the dvd box is there mention of a 2nd disc, but there is one. It has a John Holmes documentary on there, but I could not watch it b/c my PS2 has decided to have a meltdown and make grinding noises.
God freakin' dammit, every time someone posts to this thread and it comes up, I think it's going to be:
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...I can't imagine an apparently third-rate Boogie Nights ripoff starring Val Kilmer is more interesting than a great, charming little kitchen-sinker from Michael Winterbottom??
michael winterbotom directed welcome to sarajevo?!?
Quote from: chuckhimselfomichael winterbotom directed welcome to sarajevo?!?
...which unfortunately I haven't seen. But I am a fan of his, more because of
Wonderland than
24 Hour Party People.
In This World was really good...
Update:
The 2nd disc of Wonderland (not advertised on the box or anywhere) contains "Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes," the feature length doc w/ interviews from Sharon Holmes, PTA, porn people, and a slew of others.
QuoteThe 2nd disc of Wonderland (not advertised on the box or anywhere) contains "Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes," the feature length doc w/ interviews from Sharon Holmes, PTA, porn people, and a slew of others.
Jeez, that alone makes it worth buying... I'm not being sarcastic...Really, I'm not...
Quote from: RecceQuoteThe 2nd disc of Wonderland (not advertised on the box or anywhere) contains "Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes," the feature length doc w/ interviews from Sharon Holmes, PTA, porn people, and a slew of others.
Jeez, that alone makes it worth buying... I'm not being sarcastic...Really, I'm not...
For some, yeah, three letters would make a product worth buying.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaQuote from: RecceQuoteThe 2nd disc of Wonderland (not advertised on the box or anywhere) contains "Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes," the feature length doc w/ interviews from Sharon Holmes, PTA, porn people, and a slew of others.
Jeez, that alone makes it worth buying... I'm not being sarcastic...Really, I'm not...
For some, yeah, three letters would make a product worth buying.
It was more about the documentary itself. I've really been into documentaries lately.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaFor some, yeah, three letters would make a product worth buying.
my three are N-I-P.
You guys wanna hear something weird? I don't even know what PTA looks like, nor have I ever heard him speak.
Quote from: PQuote from: OnomatopoeiaFor some, yeah, three letters would make a product worth buying.
my three are N-I-P.
Okay, I'm stumped. I've gotta ask. N-I-P?
:shock:
may God hav mercy on us all.
Quote from: OnomatopoeiaQuote from: PQuote from: OnomatopoeiaFor some, yeah, three letters would make a product worth buying.
my three are N-I-P.
Okay, I'm stumped. I've gotta ask. N-I-P?
N-I-P? Stumptastic
Quote from: Weak2ndActThe 2nd disc of Wonderland (not advertised on the box or anywhere) contains "Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes," the feature length doc w/ interviews from Sharon Holmes, PTA, porn people, and a slew of others.
From DVDFile:
Now, the best extra is also the only one that wasn't produced in conjunction with the movie - the 100-minute documentary Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes, produced and directed by Cass Paley.
This is only available on this set's second disc, which apparently is going to be a limited edition, although Lion's Gate has yet to reveal just how long this will remain on the shelves and in what quantities. In any case, while cheaply made, Wadd is almost worth the price of admission alone. It is certainly far more insightful and fascinating than Wonderland, which tells us little about Holmes. So just skip the movie and watch this - it features news interviews with some of the leading players in the 70's porn industry, including Bob Chinn, Misty Dawn, Al Goldstein, Ron Jeremy, Ilona Staller, Candida Royal and Holmes' first wife Sharon, plus filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson and Larry Flynt, and archival footage of Holmes. It is by turns hilarious and heartbreaking, and has all the drama and pathos the movie lacks. Another case of the true story behind the film failing to translate to the big screen.
Quote from: P:shock:
may God hav mercy on us all.
Well, it is a pretty free abbreviation/truncation. I got it right away, but I think that may say something negative about me. :) Maybe Ono's the one with his mind outside of the gutter for just a moment, here, and we're just lewd.
here's more info on the wadd documentary (this is why i didn't buy the wonderland dvd):
source: dvdjournal.com
But the best reason to pick up the disc is the Limited Edition inclusion of Wadd: The Life and Times of John C. Holmes (1.45:16). Made in 1998 by Cass Paley, it is the perfect antidote Paul Thomas Anderson's rose-colored world. A talking-head documentary, the film offers a biography of Holmes that is shocking and engrossing, and obviously meant to directly counter Anderson's film. Want proof? PTA is interviewed for the film, and he says that Holmes wasn't a bad actor and had natural charm, which is intercut with three clips of Holmes that show him bereft of any talent, and to top it off Wadd cuts to Holmes' director Bob Chinn (the person Burt Reynolds' character was modeled on), who says that Holmes was a "not a good actor."
There are great moments of insight in the film into Holmes, and it's more than just a discussion about his penis, though there is plenty of talk about that. While many sing his praises, it quickly becomes obvious that the people who liked him most were the one's who knew him least. The meat of Wadd is the interviews with Sharon Holmes and Dawn Schiller (both shot in silhouette); they both love John but were well acquainted with his dark side. Dawn especially — the two met when she was 15, and John would sometimes pimp her for drugs (an element included in Wonderland). The film also helps flesh out many details in Wonderland — M.C. Gainey's character was modeled on interviewee Det. Tom Blake, for whom John snitched out other porn people to stay out of trouble.
If Wadd has any drawbacks, it's that the footage of Holmes comes mostly from his oeuvre; though some shots feature nudity (for the curious, one can see his infamy, but not in action) and none feature penetration, the bulk consists of Holmes practicing his "O face." After a while it becomes repellent to watch Holmes overact yet another orgasm. Still, Wadd reveals a more complicated and interesting man than Boogie Nights or Wonderland are able to surmise.
"As the joke goes, if John (Holmes) ever got fully erect he'd lose consciousness from lack of blood to the brain, because his dick was that big. And it's true that his cock was never hard. It was like doing it with a big soft kind of loofah."
Annette Haven in Wadd: The Life and Time of John C. Holmes
anyone else who've seen the wadd documentary??
damn, this is a really heartbreaking story. it follows john holmes through his whole life and several close friends and family members tells their story about him. there's also a plenty of graphic sex scenes through out the movie except about the wonderland story. it's something i expected to see and it's definitely not for everyone though. there's interviews from well known people like pta, ron jeremy, his second wife misty dawn who first comes off as a bimbo but later makes a little sense and a host of other porn and ex porn stars. while i don't hold any sympathy for the man i couldn't help to feel a little sad at the end when a couple of his friends breaks down crying after his death. worth watching if you've seen boogie nights or if you're interested in the world of porn. *cough*
....yeah ...i have seen it also when i bought wonderland.....my feelings mirror your exactly....its a great doc....for those interested in a unique person.....i thougth it was phucked up though that even though he new he had AIDS ....he still went to Italy and "worked"...thats not cool....and even Jeremy was diss'n on that.....also....that one girl from Italy w/ the teddy bear or somewthing...(the one with the white hair and the wierd eyebrows and over done makeup) freaked me out.......can someonen post a caption of that.....????...its one of those you got to see it to believe it....
as for the film itself.....i thought it was great....i don't see whats up w/ the negative views on this...i'm not saying its a masteepeice or some sh*t but...its underrated i think.....its just a rock'n kind of flashy film w/ good moments....ui really like the scene where holmes..is driving the car and the screen goees into some sort of animae effect or something....its cool....and josh lucas was great.....
Quote from: NEON MERCURYas for the film itself.....i thought it was great....i don't see whats up w/ the negative views on this...i'm not saying its a masteepeice or some sh*t but...its underrated i think
I agree with you. I enjoyed it too. Of course, it's gonna get comparisons to "Boogie Nights", but it was interesting to see how the actual events went down and see it from different points of view. It raises questions and doesn't give biased answers to who or what version was correct. The opening was overly stylized, but once it settled down a bit and Dylan McDermott came on to get the story going, that's when it got better. Great soundtrack of songs and score from Cliff Martinez. The killings at the end were very well edited and showed you so much (with help with the sound effects) without showing much. Pretty brutal.
Mac, for once i agree with you ;)
I liked the film, i didn't think it was the ebst thing ever but I definately liked it more than a lot of films I've seen over the past year. It's hyper stylized in sections and more traditional pacing in others but I never felt as if they two styles didn't mesh. During the hectic beginning I felt as if I was along for the coked up wild ride with Holmes. As the movie settles down its like moving to a different perspective. And I agree totally with the killing scene, wow! I can't really think of another sequence of murder that conveyed the brutality, kinetic violence, and raw emotion as well. Some of the scenes in natural Born Killers had a similar effect, but those were stylized into a kind of cartoonish violence. Maybe the end sequence in 'Fat Girl' but that was much less stylized than in Wonderland. At any rate it was extremely effective and reminds you what this story is all about, and how truly grisly it was.
I found the WADD documentary to be more relevent to 'Boogie Nights' than 'Wonderland'. So much f how Mark and Paul molded Dirk is evident here. I liked the inclusion of scenes from 'Exhausted' (which I have never seen) that were the inspiration for segments in the short Amber Waves makes for Dirk. Especially the 'blocking my own scenes' bit.
I don't feel any real comparison between Boogie Nights and Wonderland except for the fact that they are both about the pron world and Dirk is partly based on John Holmes and the Wonderland fiasco. i look at Wonderland, WADD, and Boogie Nights as sort of companion films. All telling the same story of pain, ambition, love and suffereing in different perspectives.
Yeah, I'm a sheep, I feel the same way about the movie. Expected the worst (considering the critical golden shower and all of 7 people saw it in theatres) and was pleasantly surprised. By no means perfect, but there were some great moments (I LOVE how Bogosian's Eddie Nash is set-up) and some interesting stylistic moves.
The documentary was decent, despite being made for 50 bucks. The stories kept it interesting. Wish there was more Ron Jeremy in it.
I will say though, that after watching the flm witht he commentary james Cox seems to want so desperately to be a respected filmmaker, in that 'i just got out of film school way'. He seems do have done everything possible to show off his own 'style' by borrowing from everyone from PT Anderson to Akira Kurosawa, and proclaiming it to help you realize what a clever guy he is. I like the film, but I can see that we will be living with the influece of PTA from now on, mostly with dire consequences. (the roller skating scene in Monster set to Journey) PTA casts a long shadow.
Quote from: analogzombieI will say though, that after watching the flm witht he commentary james Cox seems to want so desperately to be a respected filmmaker, in that 'i just got out of film school way'. He seems do have done everything possible to show off his own 'style' by borrowing from everyone from PT Anderson to Akira Kurosawa, and proclaiming it to help you realize what a clever guy he is. I like the film, but I can see that we will be living with the influece of PTA from now on, mostly with dire consequences. (the roller skating scene in Monster set to Journey) PTA casts a long shadow.
I'm sure if any of the members here made a movie they would have the same approach. And their commentaries would come off in the same way.
just finished it a few minutes ago. for the first fifteen minutes, i wanted to turn it off because it was almost annoying. the cinematography...yeah, it was over-stylized alot of time, but not most of the time. what really bugged me was the boogie nights crap, mainly concerning the arab eddie nash. the fucking silk [?] robe & speedos, and the floor-safe under the bed? also, alot of the visuals made me think that the commodores/machine-gun sequence in boogie nights alone influenced this film alot.
but anyways, the movie caught my interest a little while in and i liked it. but i do think the movie tried too hard to be a "crazed-out 70's coke movie".
Quote from: analogzombieI will say though, that after watching the flm witht he commentary james Cox seems to want so desperately to be a respected filmmaker, in that 'i just got out of film school way'. He seems do have done everything possible to show off his own 'style' by borrowing from everyone from PT Anderson to Akira Kurosawa, and proclaiming it to help you realize what a clever guy he is. I like the film, but I can see that we will be living with the influece of PTA from now on, mostly with dire consequences. (the roller skating scene in Monster set to Journey) PTA casts a long shadow.
He comes off as very arrogant; sarcastic when quoting his critics about his "over-stylized" techniques. Too many "I love this" moments, not enough about about the details of the production.
Quote from: snaporazwhat really bugged me was the boogie nights crap, mainly concerning the arab eddie nash. the fucking silk [?] robe & speedos, and the floor-safe under the bed?
I dunno about Nash's attire, but the floor safe is a fact of the real case. That's not something PTA originated.
Yeah, this movie was a surprise, I wasn't expecting to like it, but I really did. Val Kilmer was very good as Holmes, and I liked some of the stylistic flourishes, especially the opening credits. Although sometimes it felt like the movie was built to sell a cool soundtrack.
PTA wasn't kidding when he said some of the Brock Landers' stuff was lifted directly from Wadd.
Quote from: MacGuffinI dunno about Nash's attire, but the floor safe is a fact of the real case. That's not something PTA originated.
yeah, i knew i might be wrong about what i said since i knew it could be true, so i guess that's no argument, but i just couldn't get rahad out of my head.
now i'm thinking it's possible anderson lifted the nash character off and made him into rahad jackson. it almost seems likely.
Quote from: DerekI liked some of the stylistic flourishes, especially the opening credits.
eesh. the opening credits, and all the other visual whatchamacallits, i can't really dig that stuff. it all seems too manipulative...if that makes any sense...
I'm guessing the short film on the DVD is "Atomic Tabasco" (Cox's NYU short). What do you guys think of it? I find it a tad overrated. NYU treats it like the ultimate student film and thus seems to show it in every single class. I suppose it's justifiable since it got Cox's career started, but I think the whole seeing the same event from different perspectives thing was a tired bit and yet it got treated like some innovative idea. Then he just went and tried to use the same trick that first got him attention again in Wonderland.
How is Lisa Kudrow? I find that she's much more versatile as an actor than she's usually given a chance to show... probably the only reason I'd consider checking this thing out, really.
Quote from: BonBon85I'm guessing the short film on the DVD is "Atomic Tabasco" (Cox's NYU short). What do you guys think of it?
Those DVD specs are inaccurate. There's no short film, just like there is no Kilmer on the commentary track.
Quote from: godardianHow is Lisa Kudrow? I find that she's much more versatile as an actor than she's usually given a chance to show... probably the only reason I'd consider checking this thing out, really.
She's not in it all too much, but she does have a couple of scenes with Kilmer that kinda upstage him; their relationship is played as if she was his mother (and in a way, she kinda was); nurturing him.
I saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible. It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is. One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way. No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this. This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room. In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly. That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.
Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights. Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries. Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.
Quote from: soixanteI saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible. It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is. One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way. No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this. This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room. In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly. That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.
Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights. Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.
....yo!!, playa.......i gotta disagree.......remeber i ain't saying this is a mastepiece or i don't think the film can be labeled as "bad".......judging from your agruements if i am understanding them correctly, so says.....that the film didn't capture the 1981 look or the disco/porn era as well as pta did.........but .....i don't think the film's intention was to do it like that.....it's all about the wonderland murders.....and seeing it from different sides.....(think stone's JFK).......but w/ the late 70''s early 80's background........this film shouldnt be comparee on par w/ boogie......b/c its totally different plot.......and theme/focus......
Quote from: soixante
Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.
....thats too general or subjective of a statement.......you need to explain why......or rather how is it not art ........
Quote from: soixanteWonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights. Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries. Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.
This is truly a great observation.
As Oliver Stone has shown us, it's sometimes better for the true story to take a backseat to poetic license when you're making what's intended to be a work of fiction.
I can't wait to see Wonderland. Soixante's review, however, has dropped my hopes by several notches. Maybe I'll be surprised.
Quote from: NEON MERCURYQuote from: soixanteI saw Wonderland last night, and I thought it was terrible. It made me appreciate how great Boogie Nights is. One huge problem with Wonderland is it didn't capture 1981 very well -- for example, the hotel suite the LAPD kept Holmes in was decorated in a very modern way. No hotel rooms in 1981 looked like this. This is not a minor point, as the film spends a lot of time in this room. In Boogie Nights, PTA captured the most minor period details perfectly. That's one of the reasons it's a great film, because no detail is too small to get right.
Wonderland was basically a wallow in depravity, without any of the humor or unexpected tenderness found in Boogie Nights. Perhaps Wonderland was closer to Holmes' actual life, but movies are not documentaries.
....yo!!, playa.......i gotta disagree.......remeber i ain't saying this is a mastepiece or i don't think the film can be labeled as "bad".......judging from your agruements if i am understanding them correctly, so says.....that the film didn't capture the 1981 look or the disco/porn era as well as pta did.........but .....i don't think the film's intention was to do it like that.....it's all about the wonderland murders.....and seeing it from different sides.....(think stone's JFK).......but w/ the late 70''s early 80's background........this film shouldnt be comparee on par w/ boogie......b/c its totally different plot.......and theme/focus......
Quote from: soixante
Simply recounting the unpleasant facts of Holmes' life is not art, no matter how much extraneous stylistic flourishes are deployed.
....thats too general or subjective of a statement.......you need to explain why......or rather how is it not art ........
If you're going to set a movie in 1981, I better not get taken out of the movie when I see decor, hairstyles and/or clothing that ain't from 1981. I remember 1981 vividly. That sidekick detective, can't recall his name, with the long sideburns -- nobody, and I mean nobody, had that look in 1981. If you made a movie about Prohibition in the 20's, would you have characters using Palm Pilots? What makes Boogie Nights awesome, among many reasons, is its attention to detail. For example, the scene with Alfred Molina, and "Sister Christian" plays. Wow, talk about the perfect late 83 - early 84 song. Then "99 Luftballoons" plays. If that ain't early 84, nothing is. That's why I loved Boogie Nights (well, I loved it for a number of reasons) -- it brought back very specific, long-buried memories of particular time frames. For example, I always associate "Best of My Love" with 1977, very specifically, and that song plays over the first scene, set in 1977.
To me, Wonderland was an example of "smoke and mirrors" filmmaking, in which the subject matter is rather simple, but the treatment of it is tricked up to seem complex. Split screens, disorienting cuts, and herky-jerky camera movement don't add up to profundity -- it is sound and fury signifying nothing.
Wonderland reminded me of a cable documentary about sleazy porn stars, giving us facts but no point of view, no poetic vision about the human condition.
Quote from: soixante
Wonderland reminded me of a cable documentary about sleazy porn stars, giving us facts but no point of view, no poetic vision about the human condition.
....but i think thats the point of the film.....its just facts about the wonderlands murders and different points of view......i agree w/ you about boogie.that film is the pinnacle of the 70's porn/disco vibe.its nearly flawless.....but wonderland, i think is not about what boogie was about...boogie's themes/plot are much grander in scale than wonderland....i see where the errors in woderland about not accurately recreating the vibe/look/feel of the 70's.early 80's would be annoying.but the film still works b/c its all bout the woderland murders......the maion reasoning for my defending of this film is i was excitied about the film b/c of kimeer(who IS a great actor IMO).and josh lucas .....therer is something about that guy.he's seems cool......i dont know just somethign.......but EVERY REVIEW I READ SMASED THIS FILM.........SO WHEN IT CAME OUT..on dvd (in a great 2 disk set...take note PDL).........i snatched it up and found out that IT WAS NOT NEARLY.......NEARLY AS BAD AS PEOPLE MADE IT OUT TO BE IMO...........
Greasy, ugly, twisted, weird, unnerving, and sad this film spooked me a little bit. Gave me a little more info on John Holmes life since I have read only a little bit about the incident. I see the JFK comparisons but Stone is skillful and more adept at making flashbacks more haunting. Janeane Garafalo is barely in the movie and you can barely recognize Dylan Mcdermott. I also kept thinking of Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in this because the similarities were so apparent and blatent. I understand what they were going for but it made me feel so disparagingly inside thats its going to be tough to rewatch.