Xixax Film Forum

The Director's Chair => The Director's Chair => Topic started by: USTopGun47 on June 17, 2003, 07:02:25 PM

Title: (Wes Anderson) Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: USTopGun47 on June 17, 2003, 07:02:25 PM
OK... I LOVE the suicide scene in The Royal Tenenbaums.  Excellent, and what a great use of the Elliott Smith.  Great use of music all around.  Nick Drake's song's lyrics are so perfect too for the time.  But the problem - did anyone else notice that Richie says, "I'm gonna kill myself tomorrow."  I've viewed it many times, and he kills himself then.  It's only a few minutes in one day, so it's impossible.  Any ideas why or what?
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: bonanzataz on June 17, 2003, 07:12:00 PM
i've always had the same problem with it, then decided to just ignore it.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: children with angels on June 17, 2003, 07:16:19 PM
Yeah, me too. I figured in the end that he just decided he couldn't wait that long. I takes you by surpirise more this way certainly - almost more so than if he said nothing.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: USTopGun47 on June 17, 2003, 07:27:58 PM
Perhaps he couldn't wait.  Something else that would back that theory - he only shaves one stroke down his cheek.  Then he stops, ponders while looking in the mirror and STOPS.  Then he removes the blade and cuts his wrists suddenly!  Through the hospital scenes, he is only left with one stroke and the rest of his face is shaving cream!  Second, why would he kill himself with Dunley and the Dr. in the room next door?  Another reason why perhaps he wasn't planning on it.  Definetly does add suspense.  Damn it, I think we've cracked it!  :-D
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: children with angels on June 17, 2003, 07:30:29 PM
8)  Genius, ain't we?  :roll:
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Ghostboy on June 17, 2003, 07:36:31 PM
Yes, you have cracked it, but all you had to do was listen to the commentary track and Wes would have explained it to you in person! Apparently that confused a lot of people.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: modage on June 17, 2003, 07:40:48 PM
i always thought it just sounded better. the declarative statement "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow", sounds poetic.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: MacGuffin on June 17, 2003, 07:48:13 PM
On the commentary track Anderson says:

"A lot of people have asked me about that line. It confuses a lot of people. It's actually taken from a Louis Malle movie called "Le Feu Follet (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0057058)" which was a big influence on this whole film, and in that movie he says it and then tries to kill himself the next day which makes sense. In this case he says and then tries to kill himself right then, which my original thought was that that's something that...that's just a turn he makes in between saying the line and, you know, trying to kill himself. But then I had this idea of doing this montage to sort of flashback in his mind kind of... electrical thing...and, um, it changed and I dunno....I couldn't explain why he needs to say "I'm gonna kill myself," but somehow it seems right to me."
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: USTopGun47 on June 17, 2003, 08:44:05 PM
Furthermore, after he shaves the one stroke and says "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow", we see a cut to him in a much more dubious and contemplating state, then we cut to the shot of him with long hair, Anderson really pulls it together there with those milisecond shots to get that emotional change.  It's the only cut to when he had hair too.  And then of course, the poetry reaches stage two.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: lamas on June 17, 2003, 10:26:52 PM
Le Feu Follet is a great movie.  I love the Erik Satie music that plays throughout.  The same music plays when Richie visits Eli's apartment in TRT.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: ©brad on June 18, 2003, 12:56:09 AM
Quote from: themodernage02i always thought it just sounded better. the declarative statement "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow", sounds poetic.

definitely. its my favorite line/part in the movie. its so fuckin wonderful and sad. i dont see why it would confuse ppl, remember kids- can't take everything literally.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: USTopGun47 on June 18, 2003, 05:57:59 AM
Which is why I brought it up, thinking it had a deeper level to it and to clarify.  I agree that it is more poetic that way of course.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Cecil on June 18, 2003, 07:08:00 AM
Quote from: USTopGun47Perhaps he couldn't wait.

thats what i always thought
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: chainsmoking insomniac on June 18, 2003, 10:03:46 AM
You're all right I think.  Clearly, it was a split-second decision...he stops shaving, stares at his face in the mirror, then something clicks in his head and he probably thinks: "Fuck it, let's just do it now."
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Kev Hoffman on June 18, 2003, 11:35:03 AM
I always thought the very same as you folks: he pondered his words "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow", and realized he couldn't live with himself a day longer, so he killed himself at that very moment.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Pubrick on June 18, 2003, 11:43:47 AM
it's just sum cold shit to say before u pop a cap in yo own ass.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: lamas on June 18, 2003, 10:12:46 PM
that was good.  REALLY good. :lol:
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: modage on June 18, 2003, 10:36:19 PM
Quote from: ©brad
Quote from: themodernage02i always thought it just sounded better. the declarative statement "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow", sounds poetic.

definitely. its my favorite line/part in the movie. its so fuckin wonderful and sad. i dont see why it would confuse ppl, remember kids- can't take everything literally.

yeah i mean, its just sounds good the way it is.  and wes basically confirms that there really is no other reason.  just that, he liked the way it sounded.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: USTopGun47 on June 19, 2003, 06:00:52 AM
Quote from: Pit's just sum cold shit to say before u pop a cap in yo own ass.
Exquisite way of putting it  :-D
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: AntiDumbFrogQuestion on July 01, 2003, 10:27:48 PM
Perhaps Richie had been saying that line in his head for a long time, and once he finally said it he could no longer hesitate. Just my "interp".
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: tpfkabi on July 03, 2003, 11:30:11 PM
i remember someone on here mentioning what film influenced the "look" of this scene......maybe a Truffaut or Godard film?
anyone know?
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Ernie on July 04, 2003, 10:20:40 AM
Quote from: bigideasi remember someone on here mentioning what film influenced the "look" of this scene......maybe a Truffaut or Godard film?
anyone know?

Well, I don't know for sure but...if you look at one of the storyboards for this scene (on the dvd)...you can see a little note that says (I think) "Persona" lighting...it might be referring to the lighting of a certain scene in Ingmar Bergman's film of that name or maybe the lighting of whole film as an influence on the lighting of the suicide scene, I'm not sure...haven't seen Persona...but I think that's what that whole thing meant. It's hard to say, storyboards can be so hard to interpret sometimes. You should probably take a look at the ones for this scene yourself if you haven't yet just to clarify.

Also, you still may be right of course...I know Godard and especially Truffaut are a huge influence on many many aspects of his films.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Winston Wolf on August 19, 2003, 09:31:59 PM
I doubt anyone will read this, but I took it to consideration that he shaved off all of his hair, which is like a change from night to day. In a way that could very well be the "tomorrow" he wes was trying to accomplish. But hey nothing that simple could put this movie to shame.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: thedog on August 21, 2003, 08:13:35 AM
someone should also tell him that usually when you shave, you should shave your whole face. None of this half assed bullshit.
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: Banky on September 07, 2003, 08:59:24 PM
the scars on his arms are some intense shit
Title: Tenenbaums Suicide - Problem
Post by: ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ on October 19, 2003, 06:06:45 PM
I missed how it was confusing.  He looks in the mirror and says "I'm going to kill myself tomorrow."  So we know he's suicidal and he wants to.  He just does because why wait?  He's lost Margot, and the shit really seemed to hit the fan for him.

Thats got to be one of the most powerful scenes in the movie.