Xixax Film Forum

I got word that during the beginning few days of the Cannes film festival, it was announced this was a project or the next project for David Gordon Green. I have no details on this movie called "The Undertow", but I'm wondering if the invaluable Mac can forward the details for this project. Also, these are other titles that were announced to be in the making as well from Cannes:

Alain Resnais: Pas sur la Bouche (Not on the Mouth)
Eric Rohmer: Triple Agent
Ken Loach: Ae Fond Kiss
Lynn Ramsey: The Lovely Bones
Thomas Vinterberg: Dear Wendy (written by Lars von Trier)
Olivier Assayas: Clean (with Maggie Cheung)
Neil LaBute: Vapor
Mira Nair: Vanity Fair (with Reese Witherspoon)

~rougerum

Yeah, I think Mac did post a little something about this awhile ago...can't fucking wait of course, it is DGG after all.

Quote from: The Gold TrumpetI have no details on this movie called "The Undertow", but I'm wondering if the invaluable Mac can forward the details for this project.

A few posts down:
http://xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=219

Quote from: The Gold Trumpet

Alain Resnais: Pas sur la Bouche (Not on the Mouth)
Eric Rohmer: Triple Agent
Ken Loach: Ae Fond Kiss
Lynn Ramsey: The Lovely Bones
Thomas Vinterberg: Dear Wendy (written by Lars von Trier)
Olivier Assayas: Clean (with Maggie Cheung)
Neil LaBute: Vapor
Mira Nair: Vanity Fair (with Reese Witherspoon)

It's posts like this that make me feel like The Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons....

New Loach and Ramsey have the UK-kitchen-sink-whore in me shivering with excitement. Lovely Bones was, I thought, just an okay book, but Ramsey is sure to bring something fascinating and wonderful to it. I really love her. Loach, I've liked off and on. I remember being very moved by My Name is Joe. I've never seen Kes or the one they borrowed for The Limey.

Vinterberg is one to watch out for, too...

Resnais and Rohmer... I'll probably see them, but they've disappointed at times in the past. I guess it's hard to live up to such beloved early works.

There was a small set report on Undertow in Entertainment Weekly a few weeks back, which said it wouldn't be released until 2004. I can't wait for this movie.

I've been thinking about reading Lovely Bones, although the syopsis made me wary. Ramsay's involvement definitely boosted my interest, though.

So, do you guys think there's a good chance of this coming out in like September or October this coming fall? Just judging by it having started filming about a month ago. I'd hate to have to wait till the winter. It's cool to have something to look forward to in the early fall to offset the hell that the beginning of the school year is.

Josh Lucas Talks About  "Undertow"

Can you talk about Undertow?

Josh: Oh man, David Green is a great director and you've got Terrence Malick who wrote and produced that movie and was a force on set on a daily basis. You go from a movie like this ["The Hulk"] that's 150 million or whatever the hell the budget of this movie is to that movie which is a million dollars. And you are literally using guerilla techniques in terms of being on land that suddenly the land owner shows up and says, 'What the hell are you doing on my land?' So it's wild filmmaking and creative in a way that is improvisational and playful and definitely dirty and buggy and literally didn't have a chair, much less a trailer.

Where was it filmed?

Josh: In the very outer regions of Savannah, Georgia...I'm very, very excited about the possibility of that film. Definitely, definitely. He's an astonishing young southern- - I start to really believe he's a southern Fellini because he uses an incredible amount of real people. Situations that you're in are oftentimes you're filming within the reality of these very outback places that no one would ever go and be. And the structure of a very specific Malick script. So, it was stunning. Stunning, stunning, stunning.

Cool... I like Josh Lucas.  It's good to see he's still making challenging movies amidst the Hulks and Sweet Home Alabamas.

I like Josh Lucas, more or less... awfully easy on the eyes.

Had no idea about the Terence Malick connection... that should be incredible.

Check out a great article w/ pics from Undertow in my All the Real Girls dvd thread on the dvd talk board...it's awesome.

Quote from: polkabluesCool... I like Josh Lucas.  It's good to see he's still making challenging movies amidst the Hulks and Sweet Home Alabamas.

The Hulk will be challenging. Just because it has a large budget........ :yabbse-huh:

Quote from: MacGuffinJosh Lucas Talks About  "Undertow"

Can you talk about Undertow?

Josh: Oh man, David Green is a great director and you've got Terrence Malick who wrote and produced that movie and was a force on set on a daily basis. You go from a movie like this ["The Hulk"] that's 150 million or whatever the hell the budget of this movie is to that movie which is a million dollars. And you are literally using guerilla techniques in terms of being on land that suddenly the land owner shows up and says, 'What the hell are you doing on my land?' So it's wild filmmaking and creative in a way that is improvisational and playful and definitely dirty and buggy and literally didn't have a chair, much less a trailer.

Where was it filmed?

Josh: In the very outer regions of Savannah, Georgia...I'm very, very excited about the possibility of that film. Definitely, definitely. He's an astonishing young southern- - I start to really believe he's a southern Fellini because he uses an incredible amount of real people. Situations that you're in are oftentimes you're filming within the reality of these very outback places that no one would ever go and be. And the structure of a very specific Malick script. So, it was stunning. Stunning, stunning, stunning.

I'm confused. Did Malick write the new DGG film? Because in the other thread, the link ebs put said that DGG and some other guy wrote Undertow. But Malick is still producing right?

Quote from: Derek

Quote from: polkabluesCool... I like Josh Lucas.  It's good to see he's still making challenging movies amidst the Hulks and Sweet Home Alabamas.

The Hulk will be challenging. Just because it has a large budget........ :yabbse-huh:

I didn't mean challenging in the manner of "difficult to make", I meant it more like "intelligent people only need apply".

Quote from: polkablues

Quote from: Derek

Quote from: polkabluesCool... I like Josh Lucas.  It's good to see he's still making challenging movies amidst the Hulks and Sweet Home Alabamas.

The Hulk will be challenging. Just because it has a large budget........ :yabbse-huh:

I didn't mean challenging in the manner of "difficult to make", I meant it more like "intelligent people only need apply".

I understand exactly what was meant.

Sorry.  The  :yabbse-huh:  confused me.

Quote from: polkabluesSorry.  The  :yabbse-huh:  confused me.

Maybe I'm confused....but you don't think inteeligent people need apply to The Hulk?

Okay, I think I've figured out the confusion here.  You were saying that just because The Hulk is big budget doesn't mean it won't be a challenging movie.  I thought you meant that it would be challenging "just because it has a big budget".  I misunderstood your meaning.

Anyway, I hope you're right.  I would love for The Hulk to be a great, meaningful movie.  I'm just keeping my expectations low in that regard.

Prove me wrong, Ang.  Prove... me... wrong.

Quote from: polkabluesOkay, I think I've figured out the confusion here.  You were saying that just because The Hulk is big budget doesn't mean it won't be a challenging movie.  I thought you meant that it would be challenging "just because it has a big budget".  I misunderstood your meaning.

Anyway, I hope you're right.  I would love for The Hulk to be a great, meaningful movie.  I'm just keeping my expectations low in that regard.

Prove me wrong, Ang.  Prove... me... wrong.

I feel the same way. To paraphrase Woody Allen: "When I see CGI, I can actually feel my IQ dropping." So ugly so often, and so rarely undistracting. [/i]

so funny how things just wander from subject to subject.  anyone just tuning in now thinks that David Gordon Green is directing the Hulk script that Woody Allen wrote while arguing with Ang Lee on whether it should be CGI or not.

Quote from: godardian"For those who came in late... David Gordon Green is directing Undertow, written by Terence Malick and starring Josh Lucas, who will appear in this summer's The Hulk. Excitement was expressed before the digressions began."

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contentinternational.com%2Fimages%2Fnew_films%2FUndertow.jpg&hash=de62c8ed632d523c0efb91861df2014e93e95d78)

Cast: Josh Lucas, Jamie Bell, Dermot Mulroney, Shiri Appleby  

Screenplay: David Gordon Green, Joe Conway
Score: Philip Glass
Editor: Saar Klein
Director of Photography: Tim Orr
Costume Designer: Jill Newell

Full Synopsis: Two young brothers, Chris and Tim, go on the run through the southern states of the US when their uncle, Deel returns from years in jail and murders their father for keeping from him a fortune in old Mexican coins they had inherited.
Having witnessed the killing, the two boys manage to escape with the gold coins, but leaving the murder weapon - Chris' own knife - covered in his father's blood and of course Chris' fingerprints.
Chased by both Deel and the police - who now suspect Chris of the murder - somehow the two brothers must evade capture and find a way to heal their broken family.
UNDERTOW is at once a classic 'chase' movie and an emotional coming of age drama akin to 'Stand By Me'.

Distributors US Distributor: United Artists

wonderful poster

Quote from: MacGuffin(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.contentinternational.com%2Fimages%2Fnew_films%2FUndertow.jpg&hash=de62c8ed632d523c0efb91861df2014e93e95d78)

Cast: Josh Lucas, Jamie Bell, Dermot Mulroney, Shiri Appleby  

Screenplay: David Gordon Green, Joe Conway
Score: Philip Glass
Editor: Saar Klein
Director of Photography: Tim Orr
Costume Designer: Jill Newell

Full Synopsis: Two young brothers, Chris and Tim, go on the run through the southern states of the US when their uncle, Deel returns from years in jail and murders their father for keeping from him a fortune in old Mexican coins they had inherited.
Having witnessed the killing, the two boys manage to escape with the gold coins, but leaving the murder weapon - Chris' own knife - covered in his father's blood and of course Chris' fingerprints.
Chased by both Deel and the police - who now suspect Chris of the murder - somehow the two brothers must evade capture and find a way to heal their broken family.
UNDERTOW is at once a classic 'chase' movie and an emotional coming of age drama akin to 'Stand By Me'.

Distributors US Distributor: United Artists

So I've heard rumors that Malick wrote this, or produced it, at least. Yet looking above, it appears he's not involved at all...

What's the deal?

Quote from: SoNowThenSo I've heard rumors that Malick wrote this, or produced it, at least. Yet looking above, it appears he's not involved at all...

What's the deal?

He produced (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0360130/combined) it.

Glass on board for score.   I'm all over that shit.

Fuck yes! Sometimes life is just to perfect, seriously, this news just happened to break right when I get out of school for christmas break - that fucking rocks! Great great great poster!

One thing though - when's it coming out!!!!!?!!??

Also - can anybody read the tagline? I can't make it out. It's up at the top on the kid on the left's crotch. Check it out, I wanna know what that says.

Anyway, no matter what the tagline is - I can't WAIT for this!!! It looks so much different then GW and ATRG and that excites me beyond comprehension!

Looks like it says "Everyone gets dragged under"  

which is a really stupid tagline... but those are never good

All this commotion intrigued me to go on another new DGG interviews search and I found something pretty fucking cool. Here's a little something about a possible post-Confederacy of Dunces project that sounds absolutely INCREDIBLE......

If Dunces is successful, Green hopes to make a big-budget Western. But when he describes the script it becomes clear this young genius has no intention of selling his soul to Hollywood. "It's about the birth of heroin in the Old West in the 1880s," he says. "Pretty grim, but also very funny. I'd say it's half McCabe And Mrs Miller, half Blazing Saddles."

You can check out the full interview here for some other cool info: http://www.sundayherald.com/35634

I don't think it's all that old, it doesn't seem to be to me anyway. It's definitely post-ATRG. Check it out sometime, it's definitely cool. And wow, could you imagine a big budget DGG movie in the same vein as those two CLASSICS he mentioned!? Guess that means I'll actually be able to root for Johnny Depp as the lead of one of his films this time! That would be a dream collab.

re: those stills


Is Tim Orr not the hottest new DP around, or what?

Damn that's some nice lighty lighting (or lack of).

i just shit myself.

Quote from: ebeamanFuck yes! Sometimes life is just to perfect, seriously, this news just happened to break right when I get out of school for christmas break - that fucking rocks! Great great great poster!

One thing though - when's it coming out!!!!!?!!??

Also - can anybody read the tagline? I can't make it out. It's up at the top on the kid on the left's crotch. Check it out, I wanna know what that says.

Anyway, no matter what the tagline is - I can't WAIT for this!!! It looks so much different then GW and ATRG and that excites me beyond comprehension!

I am extremely shocked ebeaman didn't mention anything about this film being compared to:

Quote from: MacGuffinUNDERTOW is at once a classic 'chase' movie and an emotional coming of age drama akin to 'Stand By Me'.

haha i was just goin to say that

Quote from: MacGuffinI am extremely shocked ebeaman didn't mention anything about this film being compared to:

Quote from: MacGuffinUNDERTOW is at once a classic 'chase' movie and an emotional coming of age drama akin to 'Stand By Me'.

Oh yea, I just overlooked it....that's just a critics fake opinion to get people to actually see it, that's all that is. Stand By Me is a perfect hype-generating movie that will get people in the theatre just seeing a film being compared to it, it's a marketing ploy. I didn't overlook it just because I don't like the film.

Cause see, even if I am wrong about all of the above (which is very possible), I doubt DGG intended it to be anything like that movie, I bet he hates that movie. Even if he likes it, I doubt it's an influence on this film...he's much more truthful than the very best parts of that movie and I hope he's smarter than to look to a film like that for influence on his own, he's above all that. He doesn't need a sappy r&b song to make his fans feel. He has more talent then that.

The only films I've heard him compare this one to are The Night of the Hunter and The Texas Chainsaw Massacre which I feel are classic masterpieces so I think I'll be looking to them for a little taste of The Undertow before I look to Stand By Me.

wow. that looks great. the poster reminds me of the short film of the little boys(not by DGG) on the GW DVD.

has anyone come across a script?
something tells me with that tagline and title that someone dies / something bad happens in water........drown perhaps?

maybe comparable to A Perfect World....this could be great, DGG is branching out a little with that synopsis, although somehow it could be less conventional than All the Real Girls, never getting close to the quirky profundity of George Washington

it would do well to aspire to A Perfect World as opposed to Stand By Me, a good movie all the same

So when is this due? Anytime soon?

I read the script of this film and even though there is some coming of age thing, I don't think it's anything like Stand By Me. I never thought of that film once as I read it.

It's a good chase film with a lot of suspense, so I think it's going to be his most commercial film. I'm looking forward to seeing this film. I can give you an official release date for it soon.

From Indiewire:

In the Cannes market, eagle-eyed cineastes could find David Gordon Green's "Undertow," his upcoming third film and a worthy Southern Gothic disappointment about a pair of boys raised by their single dad and the uncle who comes back to shatter their lives. Not everything quite gels in this dreamy thriller, but the tone and sensibility is so assured that the experience is still deeply satisfying.

Quote from: GhostboyFrom Indiewire:...Not everything quite gels in this dreamy thriller...

I hate it when a short sentence like that turns one of my most eagerly anticipated films into something I worry about  :(

Are there any more/ bigger reviews?

Quote from: WithnailI hate it when a short sentence like that turns one of my most eagerly anticipated films into something I worry about  :(

Are there any more/ bigger reviews?

whoa, ur easily swayed.

who gives a shit what indiewire says.

I wasn't really that worried, just that Green has made two perfect films to date, and hearing something negative from the very first review made me go "aw, darn". But, no, I don't really give a shit about indiewire, or any reviewers for that matter, but my call out for more reviews is just out of curiousity for the feel of the movie. We know so little, and what the atmosphere of a Gordon Green chase movie is like, I really want to know. Especially since the two previous ones are two of the most comfortably paced movies I have ever seen. If suspence is what he's going for, can he pull it off?

Quote from: Withnailjust that Green has made two perfect films to date

No he hasn't.

One of the most egregious offenses at this site is the oversell/overpraise/over-whatever.  That's probably why people love (to hate) GT's reviews, and the reviews of anyone else who can be consistently objective.  We may have no idea how GT possibly came to the conclusions he does about a movie, but at least he doesn't slobber over all highly-anticipated fanboys' wet dreams committed to celluloid.

Green has made two GOOD films.  No film is perfect, and his are far from perfect.  Still, I look forward to this one, because of his unique style.  I would say voice, but he really doesn't have one yet.

Quote from: Donamatopoeia

Quote from: Withnailjust that Green has made two perfect films to date

No he hasn't.

One of the most egregious offenses at this site is the oversell/overpraise/over-whatever.  That's probably why people love (to hate) GT's reviews, and the reviews of anyone else who can be consistently objective.  We may have no idea how GT possibly came to the conclusions he does about a movie, but at least he doesn't slobber over all highly-anticipated fanboys' wet dreams committed to celluloid.

Green has made two GOOD films.  No film is perfect, and his are far from perfect.  Still, I look forward to this one, because of his unique style.  I would say voice, but he really doesn't have one yet.

It's hard to take you seriously with that avatar of yours , hehe.
Alas, I haven't seen anything by this person so what the hell am I doing here.

Quote from: cronopioIt's hard to take you seriously with that avatar of yours , hehe.

GET OUT!!!

I mean, was it any easier when I had Jay Sherman?  Well, yeah, he was a critic, but I'm sure Versace has seen her share of bad movies.  Okay, okay, bad soft-core erotica.

QuoteAlas, I haven't seen anything by this person so what the hell am I doing here.

Go now.  While I'm not fond of the overpraise of Green here, and All the Real Girls was a little bit over the top, George Washington is very nice in its pace, its tone, and its unique story.

I sure will , Jay Sherman...  daaaaI mean , Dona.  :cry:

Yeah, okey. I realize that definitely was overpraising, but it wasn't exactly the entire point of my post. And of course nothing is perfect, but if I honestly see no flaws in them (I do realize that other people do), can't I be allowed to call them perfect? I realize you were adressing the lack of objectivity, but I wasn't writing a thorough review, just a little mention of them. I guess I could've said "near perfect", but the post works just as good if I change 'perfect' to 'great', so I see no problem if people want to replace it...editing the post would kind of ruin the point of the last two.

(I do realize that I just wrote "I realize" four times)

Quote from: Donamatopoeia

Green has made two GOOD films.  No film is perfect, and his are far from perfect.  Still, I look forward to this one, because of his unique style.  I would say voice, but he really doesn't have one yet.

I don't think you can take the subjective quality of film criticism.  Now, most think george washington is his best but I think All the Real Girls is amazing.  Reason being I can identify with a young man dealing with love, much better than the life of some black kids in a poor neighborhood.

Quote from: SHAFTRI don't think you can take the subjective quality of film criticism.

What?

Quote from: Donamatopoeia

Quote from: SHAFTRI don't think you can take the subjective quality of film criticism.

What?

hmmm, that's wrong.  I meant to say that "I don't think you can ever take away the subjective aspect of film criticism."

Quote from: DonamatopoeiaOne of the most egregious offenses at this site is the oversell/overpraise/over-whatever.

yeah, i have to agree here.  how did that get started for DGG anyway?

ebeaman, best I can remember.

This movie's pretty much a straight ahead thriller. Not much like his other 2 films which I think were slower b/c they were more character driven. This baby's a plot driven movie and it seems like he's trying to get some asses in the seats so he can go back to making slow ones again.

u saw it??

Quote from: ewardu saw it??

read it

well then you ain't seen nothin

Ebeaman mark your calendar.  According to the new Premiere, Undertow will be released sometime in October.

From Entertainment Weekly:

Green's follow-up to his lauded indie All The Real Girls features two brothers (Bell and Alan) in the Deep South on the run from their convict uncle (Lucas), who's after their bag of gold coins. Sounds like a tall tale, and that may be the case: The plot originated with a phone worker on a help line for runaways. "He got a story from this kid that sounded so far out that we all assumed it was -- it sounded like a Robert Louis Stevenson book," says Green. The tale got passed on until it landed with director (and Undertow co-producer) Terrence Malick, who tapped Green to cowrite and direct.

The dark film features Bell in his first starring role since Billy Elliot. The 18-year-old recalls his off-kilter casting meeting with Green: "He played me some music [metal-country like 16 Hoursepower and minimalist Arvo Part] and said, 'If you can imagine pictures of this music, this is what I want the film to be.' I thought, This guy has got some crazy ideas, and I want to be a part of what he has to do." Ultimately, Green describes Undertow as similar to "a boys' adventure novel of the 50's -- I wanted the poster to be [someone] holding a lantern and pointing at the staircase. I think it's a little too campy, but that's the vein we were going for."

Quote from: themodernage02Ebeaman mark your calendar.  According to the new Premiere, Undertow will be released sometime in October.

Oct. 29

oh shit that soon.

iwasn'tsure if hteh omvoei whas GOINCOING OIn in OCTOBER oinsd in Setrpebr bsadi I loved "GEORGE WASHINTGON" And I still Ahven;t aseeen "ALL THE REAL GALS"{ so hthies should bporabo he really good

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: themodernage02Ebeaman mark your calendar.  According to the new Premiere, Undertow will be released sometime in October.

Oct. 29

uh oh, a new DGG movie opening the same day as Zooey Dechanel's EULOGY!??!  whats an ebeaman to do?!?!

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: themodernage02Ebeaman mark your calendar.  According to the new Premiere, Undertow will be released sometime in October.

Oct. 29

uh oh, a new DGG movie opening the same day as Zooey Dechanel's EULOGY!??!  whats an ebeaman to do?!?!

have his first sexual experience

Trailer Here (http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2004/STUVWXYZ/Undertow/trailer-page.html)

I didn't really like the trailer that much (the voice-over is just awful) and I'll admit to not being the biggest DGG fan, but I'll probably still give it a chance.

no way dgg is gonna be using that kind of music in his movie right?  I'm looking forward to it still.

Quote from: peteno way dgg is gonna be using that kind of music in his movie right?  I'm looking forward to it still.

Didn't he use something similar in All the Real Girls?

Quote from: UncleJoeyI didn't really like the trailer that much (the voice-over is just awful) .

The lack of v/o is what made the All the Real Girls trailer so great.

Put this movie at #2 (behind Life Aquatic) for most anticipated movie of the year for me.

Quote from: ranemaka13

Quote from: peteno way dgg is gonna be using that kind of music in his movie right?  I'm looking forward to it still.

Didn't he use something similar in All the Real Girls?

we talking about the trailer music?  in all the real girls the trailer or the movie?  'cause there's nothing like that in the movie.

Quote from: pete

Quote from: ranemaka13

Quote from: peteno way dgg is gonna be using that kind of music in his movie right?  I'm looking forward to it still.

Didn't he use something similar in All the Real Girls?

we talking about the trailer music?  in all the real girls the trailer or the movie?  'cause there's nothing like that in the movie.

unless i misunderstood you - the trailer music for all the real girls is indeed in the film as well.....i have a strange feeling thats not what you meant, however....

but, jesus, undertow....what a bad fucking trailer.......i'm still gonna see it of course, but i'm feelin kinda wary now - i hope this isnt a colossal fuck up....

no I was talking about how the trailer for undertow had terrible music, and hoped that the undertow trailer music is not in the movie.  so when ranemaka said "Didn't he use something like that in all the real girls", I assumed that he meant the trailer music in undertow was similar to the actual soundtrack of all the real girls.  or that all the real girls's trailer music was taken from the soundtrack of the movie.  it was real unclear what he meant, so I made a double statement/ question thing.  but thanks for clearing up at least part of that statement/ question combo.

Quote from: SHAFTRThe lack of v/o is what made the All the Real Girls trailer so great.

It made it an excellent preview of the awful dialogue in the film.



faced

First thirty seconds and the last thirty seconds are pretty good. The minute in the middle seems to be UA's way of saying they hope this movie makes money.

Quote from: SHAFTRPut this movie at #2 (behind Life Aquatic) for most anticipated movie of the year for me.

SHAFTR, admit it!  that trailer looks so run-of-the-mill.  granted they are trying to sell his possibly still DGG film, but that certainly couldnt get you excited.  if you didnt know he had made the film you would not have been interested/excited by THAT?!?

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: SHAFTRPut this movie at #2 (behind Life Aquatic) for most anticipated movie of the year for me.

SHAFTR, admit it!  that trailer looks so run-of-the-mill.  granted they are trying to sell his possibly still DGG film, but that certainly couldnt get you excited.  if you didnt know he had made the film you would not have been interested/excited by THAT?!?

It is true the Trailer was run of the mill, but I'd rather look at the director rather than the trailer when deciding what movie I am looking forward to.  I thought the look of the film and the storyline show a lot of promise, the v/o and the cutting of the Trailer is awful.

Trailers don't mean shit.   Especially when they're so obviously cut together by the studio (like this one).

I'm excited about this movie for two reasons: David Gordon Greene and Terrence Malick.

Plus: Philip Glass scored it, and I will watch ANYTHING that he worked on.

I agree with Film Student. Who cares about a trailer? It's so funny how you guys always agree on stupid stuff like trailers and cover art.

well i guess i was responding to SHAFTR proclaiming how much he wanted to see it directly below the posted trailer.

its still one of my most anticipated films of the year, but the trailer sucked, is all.

Quote from: peteno I was talking about how the trailer for undertow had terrible music, and hoped that the undertow trailer music is not in the movie.  so when ranemaka said "Didn't he use something like that in all the real girls", I assumed that he meant the trailer music in undertow was similar to the actual soundtrack of all the real girls.  or that all the real girls's trailer music was taken from the soundtrack of the movie.  it was real unclear what he meant, so I made a double statement/ question thing.  but thanks for clearing up at least part of that statement/ question combo.

Sorry, I meant AtRG movie. I thought it had a similar...."alt-country" [?] feel to the music that this trailer had. Does that make any sense?
But, I personally wasn't so put off by the music, though, some of it does bother me a bit, the more I watch it.

Happily caught in the 'Undertow,' she finds the freedom to mature
Source: Los Angeles Times

"Undertow," the latest film from "All the Real Girls" director David Gordon Green, is an offbeat hybrid of a '70s-style revenge thriller and the spacey, character-driven atmospherics of the filmmaker's previous work. Nothing speaks to this dual design quite so much as the character of Violet, a stylishly grungy, wandering ragamuffin played by 25-year-old Shiri Appleby. At one point Violet callously robs one of the two brothers-on-the-run at the film's center, only to return her spoils a few moments later.

Addressing this rather inscrutable change of heart, Appleby says, "I saw her as this girl who was really proud of the fact that she was dark and her life was heavy. She took pride in the fact she'd been through a lot. It's survival of the fittest out there, but she still cares for the guy."

Probably best known for her three-year run on the WB sci-fi series "Roswell," Appleby has been acting since a very young age, appearing in such features as "I Love You to Death" and as the flashback younger version of one of the main characters on TV's "thirtysomething." She previously read for two of Green's other projects, and considers her turn in "Undertow" to be her first truly mature role. The director, himself only 29, is known for his ability to draw nuanced performances from younger actors, and Appleby is specific about what Green does differently.

"He wouldn't say, 'Do this,' " she explains. "He'd say, 'I want her to be what you think she is.' He wants you to work with wardrobe, he has you rewrite your dialogue, all so you can feel everything is organic to what you're putting out there. And while you're shooting, he's yelling things from off-camera to keep you on your toes and so there's no routine to what's going on.

"For me that was the first time anybody trusted me that much, gave me that freedom. He's like your friend, talking to you on this real, normal level. It's a complete departure for me and it's a little nerve-racking. It's the first time I've done something not similar to myself."

Yeah, Ebert called this a masterpiece too.

cool, then I'll call it a masterpiece too.
all those people white peeing over the meager selection of mediocre indie films of 2003 must be castrating themselves right about now.

I didn't dig the trailer too much. It seemed too made for tv'ish. But I'll end up checking it out nonetheless. What is Greens fascination with dim witted southerners? Well maybe dim witted is a bit harsh, but he always has characters who aernt very bright and get by on their child like behavior. This movie doesn't seem to have that, it just has the hard as nails southern good ole boy vibe going for it.

Has anyone posted this sweet new poster? If so, well, here it is again.

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Quote from: GhostboyHas anyone posted this sweet new poster?

i imagined you saying that like napoleon dynamite.

this film is a masterpiece... :yabbse-cry:

some new reviews:

http://www.takethemoneyandrun.org/dgg.html

the second review was trying too hard to dislike the movie, and all he could come up with was "trying to be mainstream" and "a bit boring".  ASS-HOLE.  Why the hell does he need to try to be mainstream when he's doing a movie starring mos def, will farrel, and drew barrymore next?

This movie is a masterpiece.

You hear about DGG talking about all of his influences here (Hardy Boys, Mark Twain, Night Of The Hunter, 70s drive ins, etc.) and you try to picture what that will be like (kinda like 2001-2, trying to figure out what a PTA 90 minute Adam Sandler comedy would be like), but when you see it, it all makes sense.

He was at the screening and talked a bit about the trailer. He cut one version, which was all just cool imagery with no story, scored to Swedish heavy metal. The studio didn't like it and cut their own, with Mr. Trailer Voice and everything. DGG thought that was pretty funny and decided to go with it, and the final trailer is the studios for the first two minutes and then his original one for the last 30 seconds.

He also talked about his next films, but I guess I'll go post those in his official directing thread...

David Gordon Green Talks About "Undertow," His "Southern Tall Tale"
Source: indieWIRE

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*READ AT OWN RISK*

David Gordon Green's first two films, "George Washington" and "All the Real Girls" were the opposite of action films; they were quiet, poetic ruminations on small-town stories. Green's new film "Undertow" still has a lyrical quality and an emotional pull, but also more testosterone and aggression. There are even a few action scenes, chases, and bloodshed. It's not your typical thriller, but it does offer a few thrills.

Dermot Mulroney stars as John Munn, a single farmer raising two sons, rebellious Chris (Jamie Bell) and sickly Tim (Devon Alan). Their isolated life in the back woods is interrupted by the appearance of Deel (Josh Lucas), John's swaggering brother, fresh out of prison. When violence erupts, Chris and Tim try to outrun danger (and Deel) and meet up with people living on the fringes of society.

The film feels like a larger-budget production, although Green says the budget was less than $2 million (and some of that money went to government-issue mosquito repellant to survive a shoot in rural Georgia). When he was in town for the New York Film Festival, Green talked with indieWIRE's Wendy Mitchell about Southern caricatures, '70s B-movies, and what it's like to have Terrence Malick looking over your shoulder. United Artists opened "Undertow" on Friday.

indieWIRE: How do you think "Undertow" fits in with your past films?

David Gordon Green: I think I brought a lot of the technique in creating atmosphere that I liked from the first two movies, and I brought it to a more aggressive narrative approach to filmmaking.

iW: What was the evolution of this project, did you know Terrence Malick [one of the film's producers]?

Green: Malick got in contact with me when he saw "George Washington"... he had this script that Joe Conway, a guy on his basketball team, had written. Joe's a high school English teacher in Austin, Texas. Joe had written the script and I thought there were a lot of interesting elements that I wanted to explore based on this true-crime story that a runaway had told on a runaway hotline. But the runaway was not telling the truth, obviously this is very heightened reality. It's more "Pirates of Penzance" than "In Cold Blood"... except that it wasn't a musical (laughs). That really interested me, a young person's interpretation of tragedy almost embracing it as adventure... So I was really interested in taking a story like this that had elements of genre thrillers, horror movies, even a lot of '70s action movies -- a lot of drive-in, B, hell-raising redneck cop movies, and then put a level of absurdity and humor in it. It's a Southern tall tale, but you've got a realist ic foundation, you can embellish it. In many ways I was just as inspired by the fairy tale element as I was by the reality.

iW: Joe already had a script -- how did you collaborate when you got involved?

Green: It's important to me in any project that I do to adapt it so that it's meaningful to me emotionally. So I took the architecture and personalized it. I made characters more familiar to me, I made circumstances more emotional to me, and I added the level of absurdity that I thought was important to this horrific narrative. And I was a lot more concerned about the honesty of the characters than the plot points. Anybody that wants to find holes in this, have at it, I'll bring the holepunch! But it's not about that, it's storytelling, it's about the legends and the myths.

iW: With all these male characters, why did you try to keep tenderness in the story?

Green: It's an exploration of masculinity. Male identity is such a weird, nerdy thing, it's dealt with so stereotypically. It's so cut and dry, I wanted to make men that were funny and sad and angry and happy all at the same time, to try to make a more complicated emotion out of it. These characters are motivated by very unremarkable feelings, and it's how they express those feelings that we tried to make distinctive.

iW: What was it like working on a bigger scale?

Green: It wasn't really a bigger scale.

iW: Well, it feels bigger... and it was a longer shoot, you have more A-list stars.

Green: The stars are recognizable names and faces but they're not bringing baggage, there's no trailers, everybody was just sitting there sweating it out and taking a dump in the portapotty. They were very gung-ho, and everybody was swinging from trees just trying their damndest to make this movie.

One thing that was different is that a lot of the technical elements in the movie were new to me. Doing stunt work and doing more makeup, and using soft focus because the blood gags look fake, and being really particular about the color of blood. It's just a lot of logistics trying to execute stuff like that, action sequences and trying to make it safe. People did get hurt [nails in feet, broken ribs] and that's not good -- everybody was getting beat up and attacked, not only mother nature and the environment but by each other. It was a bonding experience.

iW: I think of your first two films as being more poetic and still... This film has a different energy to it. Was that an adjustment for you?

Green: The camera department had to spend a little more time on the treadmill to get ready for it. Now [cinematographer] Tim Orr can bench press more than I can, which is a little disconcerting...but they had to train. We had this heavy equipment and we were lugging it back into places where people don't normally film, for a reason. With the weather too, we had to run and gun and be on the top of our games. Technically there were a lot of obstacles.

iW: The casting is interesting... having Jamie Bell (who's English) playing a Southern boy, and having Josh Lucas, who I tend to think of as more the romantic lead, "Sweet Home, Alabama" guy, playing this villain.

Green: Well Jamie was cast first... he was more like this character than anybody I met, and I looked all over the country. I'm the one that always laughs at the movie when the guy has the fake Southern accent, I hate that. Maybe that has something to do with being from the South and being particular about what I think is authentic. But after meeting hundreds of actors, trying to see who could wrap their head around this character, and get the physical instincts of this character, Jamie was the one that I responded to. He proved to me that he had that range of emotions and physicality from his previous movies. And he was a cool-as shit-kid who reminded me a lot of who I used to be.

It was him making the effort to do it authentically. And me having to crack the whip and get him to do it. But at the end of the day, he did an amazing job that we're all really proud of and that's due to his dedication to it.

iW: This will help him lose that ballerina stigma [from "Billy Elliot"].

Green: Yeah, I don't think he's getting back into toe shoes anytime soon. We flattened his arches a little bit.

Josh was just the actor I met with that could just humanize a villain the best. His ideas were the most interesting. I'm not looking for an actor to just memorize the script and read his lines and play what I tell him to play. I want to work with an actor who brings ideas to the table, who has fun with the character, who can take it to unexpected directions and can improvise. A lot of times I want them to tell me what to do, I'm not always the boss.

iW: You encourage improvisation, so how much of the script is left in the final film?

Green: I don't know, I haven't looked at it since we shot any of the film. I'm not possessive of what I write in any way... I don't like a lot of that territorial stuff -- I think that can be what makes a film flat and boring and unengaging and mediocre is that expectation. You can see that crafty writer behind the wonderful screenplay. I always get angry when I think a script has good writingŠjust go write a novel!

iW: This film seems fresh but also harkens back to a lot of films from the '70s.

Green: It's very derivative and cliché, but in a good way. I definitely wanted to work within a genre, and I was technically and aesthetically inspired by B-movies of the '70s, drive-in movies of the '70s... like the poor man's version of "Stroker Ace," the poor man's "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot." Movies like "Eat My Dust!," this old Ron Howard movie. And "Grand Theft Auto," or "Pit Stop," "Macon County Line." Taking movies like that that do have a value of camp and exaggeration, over the top-qualities to them, balancing them with like the '70s aesthetic of "Badlands," or "Thunderbolt and Lightfoot," or "Deliverance." Which are the three greatest movies in the world. "Walking Tall," "Billy Jack," I love all that. I think I'm certainly working three decades too late if my aim is to be successful.

iW: Speaking of "Badlands," how was it having Malick as one of your producers -- is that intimidating, is it comforting? Do you have to say "no" to Terrence Malick?

Green: Yes. It's great because he's encouraging of new processes, he's encouraging of taking it off the assembly line. He realizes there are risks in that and he's willing to support that. If there's one thing that he energy of me and my crew doesn't necessarily provide for, it's a leverage muscle and sophistication within the industry, so that by getting guys like Malick and [another producer, Ed] Pressman to help us navigate it, and having them support some of the unconventional technique and style that we're going for, that made it a lot easier. At the end of the day, he's there as a producer to help you execute the job that you came to do. And protect the ideas of all the collaborators.

iW: Was Malick very hands on?

Green: Oh yeah, he was on set. It's an interesting feeling to stroll over to the monitor and see Malick be exuberant and thrilled or critical of your work on the spot as it happens. And to ask questions as any producer would and challenge you as any smart producer would, and ultimately to encourage you as the gracious producers will.

iW: This film had a striking look, all these yellows and browns and reds. I was curious what the process is like when you and Tim [Orr, cinematographer] first start talking about each film. How do you decide what the look of a film will be?

Green: We watch a lot of movies. We talk about what the pros and cons of color and production design. It's me, Tim, Richard Wright (our production designer), Jill Newell (our costume designer), and Scott Clackum (our location manager) -- we sit down and have a few beers and watch a lot of movies. We do that for weeks and weeks and weeksŠWe all kind of get together on the same page. Not that we're going to rip off other movies, but it's helpful.

iW: What inspired the freeze frames in "Undertow"?

Green: That was inspired by the freeze frame at the beginning of "Macon County Line," when the title comes up when he's jumping over the rail... I love that movie. I think it's just an effective way to weave still photography into movies. Plus it looks cool.

iW: I grew up in North Carolina, and one thing I love about the rural South is old dilapidated, abandoned spaces, and I think all of your films can take that dilapidation and make it look really beautiful. How do you find those places?

Green: I like to take rundown-ness and make it very beautiful, I don't know why, I just like that. I've always been wandering around in rusted-out train tracks and dreamed of living in train stations and wandering into condemned buildings. That's part of my childhood adventure. It's something I also to explore in film because everything is so shiny and Ikea these days, nothing has texture or history or soul by the time you eat dinner on it.

iW: I've read some past interviews when you said you didn't like some of the past film representations of the South, but "Undertow" has a guy with a corncob pipe and a possum in a cage. Were you trying to make these people redneck caricatures?

Green: I wanted to take that cartoonish element that comes from the media's exploitation of the modern-day hick and make them believable people That was the goal. To show the root of where these stereotypes are birthed... those stereotypes didn't come from nowhere, they come from somewhere. I'm not making this shit up.

iW: Do you want to do bigger budget films?

Green: Yes, I definitely want to do bigger budget projects.

iW: But you want to keep doing stories about people, and that isn't what you usually see with bigger budgets.

Green: Well, that's the problem, once you start trying to make a movie about people but you've got an enormous war to stage or a huge car chase to execute, you have to focus on that logistically. But if you can set yourself up financially but not neglect the heart, the root of character and performance, and still balance that with the healthy, ambitious side of technical chaos... it's hard. And obviously the more money you spend, the more people you've got looking over your shoulder questioning your judgment. Until I've proven myself to be a more financially valuable commodity, I have to continue to make financially responsible films, which I've been able to do through the wonders of foreign territories and DVDs, so people will continue to give me modest sums of investments. I don't know if I'm willing to make the compromises for the larger-scale projects.

iW: So what are you going to do next?

Green: I don't know. Right now I'm just doing a lot of writing. I'm writing a project for Sydney Pollack to direct and I'm writing another movie for Seann William Scott to star in, a high-concept studio comedy. It's called "Nerd Camp," it's about a summer camp for geniuses. So I'm exercising different chops. Playing in the studio arena as a writer has given me an interesting exercise in that corporate navigation. And being able to recognize the value of smart executives.

iW: Don't you miss directing if you're just writing?

Green: Oh yeah. I have several scripts that I've written, I'm just trying to see if money will stick and the right creative circumstances develop for one of them. There's a demolition derby action comedy that I've written with Danny McBride, a "Smokey and the Bandit" type of movie, and then I've got this book I just adapted for Killer Films, called "Goat" [Brad Land's memoir of fraternity hazing]. And this Western I'm trying to get going and this science-fiction script I've had for years. Right now I'm also renovating this house so that's a big job.

iW: Yes, I heard you got a house in New Orleans. And speaking of New Orleans, what happened with "Dunces"? [Green was slated to direct the long-awaited film adaptation of "A Confederacy of Dunces" for Miramax, but the project has fallen apart.]

Green: "Dunces" was burdened by the financial and political paperwork that ultimately shelved it creatively. It was at a standstill between so many people that had their hand in the project, and the financial baggage that accumulated over the last 20 years. We assembled what I thought was an extraordinary cast, and had what I thought was a wonderful adaptation of the novel written by Steven Soderbergh and Scott Kramer, but it was a circumstance where every move needed to be approved and calculated and re-approved and the financial circumstances needed to be reconsidered and baggage kept getting bigger and bigger, so it wasn't an ideal circumstance under which to make the creative movie that it should have been -- so who knows if that will ever happen, I hear different things, I don't think anyone can make it until someone gets paid off or dies [laughs].

'Undertow' Is Green's Study in '70s Lifestyle

Technically, director David Gordon Green, who was born in 1975, in Little Rock, Ark., is too young to be considered a child of the '70s.

But with only two films behind him -- 2000's "George Washington" and 2003's "All the Real Girls" -- he somehow seems to have absorbed a lot of the best of the '70s spirit of iconoclastic filmmaking into his own creative DNA.

And his newest film, "Undertow," which United Artists is expanding into 20 theaters Friday, makes a further case for his aesthetic heritage since Terrence Malick serves as one of its producers.

"Undertow" doesn't borrow directly from Malick's own '70s films, such as "Badlands," a tale of two kids on the run, and "Days of Heaven," in which rural farmworkers share the screen with the forces of nature. But like them, it displays an interest in characters on the edges of society, framing them against a landscape that emerges as a character in its own right.

Inspired by a true story that first intrigued Malick, who brought it to Green, "Undertow" revolves around a family -- a father, played by Dermot Mulroney, and his two sons, Jamie Bell and Devon Alan -- living in rural Georgia. When Dad's bad-seed brother (a menacing Josh Lucas) turns up, events turn violent.

One of the aspects of '70s film that appeals to Green -- and which differs from the programmatic plot-driven films of today -- is an emphasis on the quirks of character. "I don't use characters to service the plot," Green says. "I use plot to service the characters. I like to relate to everyone, to blur the line between good and evil, to justify the wrongdoers and criticize those in the right."

In fact, he only became committed to "Undertow" once he convinced himself that it had the potential to be more than just a straight narrative movie. "As an audience, I like narrative movies," he concedes. "But not as a director."

Stylistically, he also found himself borrowing a camera move, the zoom, much more popular in the '70s than it is now. In part, it was a practical matter: "A lot of the places we shot were not accessible for dollies and tracks," he says. But by using a zoom lens, and he his cameraman Tim Orr were able to achieve "a nice sense of movement and composition."

Enthusing about zooms, he adds, "There's just a shocking absurdity to it. It thrusts you into the scene for an emotional reaction. 'Cool Hand Luke' and 'Butch Cassidy' both used them. And I love the scene in 'McCabe and Mrs. Miller,' when the preacher gets shot in the arm, and you almost see it from the bullet's perspective."

As for Malick, who produced the project along with Lisa Muskat and ContentFilm's Edward Pressman, he was a constant presence. Although the director -- who turned out no films between 1978's "Heaven" and 1998's "The Thin Red Line" -- is regarded by many in Hollywood as mysteriously elusive, Green found him a source of support and creativity.

"He was a guy whom I could turn to," the younger filmmaker says. "At times, I'd ask him for creative solutions. At other times, he'd say, 'What's the point of doing this? Here's a way to save time and save money.' He truly was a creative producer, very collaborative."

As for his own growing reputation as a regional filmmaker -- "Undertow" was shot around Savannah, Ga., and captures the rusty edges between decaying towns and the fertile countryside -- the New Orleans resident, insists, "I've made films in the South because there are characters there I know. But for the right opportunity, I'd go to Antarctica or I'd go to New Zealand. That would be far out."

Great movie.

I saw it on Friday night. I was one of four in a theatre that seats five hundred. Kind of sad.

um, whenever you see this you are suppose to say

"this film is a masterpiece"

then begin your review.

this film is a masterpiece.  

okay, not really but DGG just isnt really my thing.  saw Undertow today and while i can appreciate like his 2 eariler films what he was trying to do, i just dont know that the end result was something completely there.  (i guess in the same sort of way mutinyco believes PT is talented but just hasnt made a film yet delivering on the promise of that and worthy of the praise he receives.)  the swelling phillip glass score in the opening moments was cool, as were some of the freeze frames in a kitchsy 70's way.  but they werent really used to full dramatic effect, but just seemed to be thrown in for cool like kill bill tossing in a reference just because its 'cool,' and not because it really means something.  the movie, working inside the genre as it may be, if you've seen Night of the Hunter, unfortunately you've already seen this movie.  there are no surprises to be found here, so you just have to wait and watch while DGG connects the dots.  which is fine if you really dig his style, and i dont mind it, but at the same time i'm not crazy for it.  it seemed to me like it was around the 1 hour mark before the boys even got on the road and then seemed like another hour or more from there.  (to my surprise when it ended i found out the film is only 2 hours, but really felt like longer).  so, i didnt mind the film, it was good-ish, but a little long and way predictable.  (it was no stand by me).  i wanted to love it, it just wasnt meant to be.  i imagine this wont change anybodys minds, DGG fans will love it and non-fans wont be converted.

Quote from: themodernage02(it was no stand by me).

Thank Christ.

Quote from: eward

Quote from: themodernage02(it was no stand by me).

Thank Christ.

i meant, nowhere near as memorable, real or good as SBM.

Quote from: themodernage02
i meant, nowhere near as memorable, real or good as SBM.

Thank Christ.

What the hell.

Like I Heart Huckabees, Undertow is a catastrophe of ideas, moreso for the former.  It's as if Green was so excited about finding a screenplay with which he can apply a lot of his influences that we haven't seen in his first two films that it becomes tiresome to watch.  Whether or not the film's style adds to the richness of the film isn't a factor for me because at pretty much every given moment I thought Green was either overindulging himself (opening credits!!!) or misapplying the style I love him for.  It's safe to say that he can't do genre and his own style at the same time; it just doesn't work.  Undertow can't even be considered genre reconstruction (eg McCabe & Mrs. Miller for the western... that's what I was hoping this would be) because Green so blatantly embraces the conventions of the genre and shines them on in their banal glory.  I love genre pictures but when set against the languid, glorious pacing and eye for truth of David Gordon Green, it can't work, and quite frankly it doesn't.  There's a conflict of interests in the film.

I'd be damned though to say that there's nothing good about this film.  To compare it again to I Heart Huckabees, I saw this as a wonderous mess (that first paragraph was to express my disappointment with Green moreso than with the film).  A lot of the film felt like watered-down DDG but there are moments of geniune gentleness and great beauty that resonate deeply.  I loved the scenes with the gypsies/homeless; that entire sequence was wonderfully fairy-tale yet so well rooted in truth.  The younger brother's voice-overs, however, were so blatantly Days of Heaven that I almost wrote them off completely.  

Undertow's a good example of a film with better intentions than execution, one that let me down because I thought there was so much potential in one part but surprised me because it showed a lot of depth where I least expected it.  By the end I didn't know how to feel, and if there's one thing I hate feeling after a film, it's ambivalence.  To me it was like watching an amazing director work with material that's beneath him and try to make the best of it, which, to a point, he does.  Not Tim Orr's best work either, but there seemed to be a more experimental air about this movie when compared for the first two, and there are few things greater in cinema than to watch a great artist challenge himself, regardless of the result....even if challenging himself means making a more conventional film.

Undertow > Stand By Me

It's a film that fails but at the end of the day I'm grateful to have seen it.  I feel odd saying this but it's one of my favorite films of the year.  Despite my reservations, the force of what's good about the film is undeniable and still churning in my mind and heart.  I just hope this is as bad as Green gets.

I saw it for a second time last night, and loved it even more.

Samsong, do you really think the little brother's VO is more blatantly Malick-ish than anything in George Washington -- in which he lifted not only cadence and mannerism, but gender and even almost actual lines of dialogue?

I loved the jarring (and yes, self indulgent) contrast of styles -- of thrilling versus rambling, with all the oddball freeze frames that were no more explicable and yet somehow appropriate than the heavily gothic Phillip Glass score. I thought it was all marvelously congruent.

Quote from: GhostboyI loved the jarring (and yes, self indulgent) contrast of styles -- of thrilling versus rambling, with all the oddball freeze frames that were no more explicable and yet somehow appropriate than the heavily gothic Phillip Glass score. I thought it was all marvelously congruent.

Well put.  Phillip Glass's scores are challenging, always adding to the complexity of the work even though it doesn't always feel appropriate.  The contrast of styles left me ambivalent because it felt completely superfluous but the impression it leaves is one I couldn't shake.  It may not have worked for me but it was wonderful watching Green exploring the form more.  I still think the opening credits is horrible though.

As for George Washington... I'll have to watch it again.  The difference for me is having met Undertow with expectations whereas I didn't know what to expect from George Washington when I first saw it.  The Malick similarities in George Washington were refreshing because it was awesome to see him getting some recognition by a more contemporary director who's doing what he did in his time now.  I don't mind Green being the new Malick, but I do mind Green being Malick.  For a first film it's fine, even joyous, but I want to see him get farther from that as he makes more films, which I think he did with All the Real Girls, so Undertow felt like a digression in that respect.

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: eward

Quote from: themodernage02(it was no stand by me).

Thank Christ.

i meant, nowhere near as memorable, real or good as SBM.

oh okay, i thought you meant nowhere near as forgettable, forced or shitty as SBM.  my bad.

You've been hanging around he who shall not be named (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=2063&highlight=stand+suck) just a skosh too much.

Quote from: ewardoh okay, i thought you meant nowhere near as forgettable, forced or shitty as SBM.  my bad.

Quote from: eward a year agowhile i will say that i really like stand by me, i will also say that the puking scene makes me cringe, not because its gross - no, its so over the top you cant think its gross - but because....what the fuck?

but i do think the movie is quite affecting, and i fucking love richard dreyfuss.

yeah, eward.  what are you talking about?  you're letting your film snobbery get out of hand when you start hating on sbm.  there are much worse things out there, so i cant say i understand this 180.

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: ewardoh okay, i thought you meant nowhere near as forgettable, forced or shitty as SBM.  my bad.

Quote from: eward a year agowhile i will say that i really like stand by me, i will also say that the puking scene makes me cringe, not because its gross - no, its so over the top you cant think its gross - but because....what the fuck?

but i do think the movie is quite affecting, and i fucking love richard dreyfuss.

yeah, eward.  what are you talking about?  you're letting your film snobbery get out of hand when you start hating on sbm.  there are much worse things out there, so i cant say i understand this 180.

People's opinions change.

The fact that Stand By Me is a mediocre film (on a good day...a very good day) won't.

XIXAX: FROM FILM LOVER TO FILM SNOB IN 6 MONTHS

Hmm, this was in a theatre in my town for about a week and then it disappeared.  Only one showing a day, too, relegated to the level of The Brown Bunny.  Seems to be the case in other cities, too.  Was it really that bad a flick?  What's the story?

it was a mixed bag.

Quote from: themodernage02

Quote from: ewardoh okay, i thought you meant nowhere near as forgettable, forced or shitty as SBM.  my bad.

Quote from: eward a year agowhile i will say that i really like stand by me, i will also say that the puking scene makes me cringe, not because its gross - no, its so over the top you cant think its gross - but because....what the fuck?

but i do think the movie is quite affecting, and i fucking love richard dreyfuss.

yeah, eward.  what are you talking about?  you're letting your film snobbery get out of hand when you start hating on sbm.  there are much worse things out there, so i cant say i understand this 180.

...he's on to me....

no, but seriously....stand by me was a childhood favorite of mine, and i guess that still does give it some merit, but i decided to revisit it not too long ago and...it was just like a whole 'nother movie this time around...i don't know, i don't think it's snobbery, it's just growing up, i guess.  i still love richard dreyfuss no matter what movie it is!  and also, at the time i posted that, i hadn't seen the film in quite some time, so yeah....i shouldn't have revisited it, shouldn't have ruined my fond memories of it...and you're right, there are much worse things out there...it's not awful, it's got two or three okay moments...but it is pretty mediocre in my eyes (as of late)...

and undertow is nowhere to be found 'round my area, nor brown bunny...fucking hell!

Quote from: eward

and undertow is nowhere to be found 'round my area...fucking hell!

Same here. I was so looking forward to seeing this and the closest cities to me that had it, only did for a week like wantautopia? said and now it is nowhere to be found.

suuucks.

So here's a funny story about trying to see Undertow.  Not funny "ha-ha," mind you, but funny "boo-hoo."

So I missed Undertow the whole week it was playing in the town where I attend university.  I get ready to head home for Christmas break, and see that it's playing there (at a 22-screen multiplex, of all places).  So I make plans to drive an extra 30 minutes away from where I'm staying to get to that theatre for a 9:40 showing.  I get there, and I see on the marquee it says "Sold Out."  I hesitate for a bit, standing in line, then leave, a bit dejected, not wanting to look like an idiot, asking for a ticket to a movie that's "Sold Out."

I get in my car and starts to leave and it dawns on me: this is a big city with over a half a million people, only one art house and this film isn't playing at it.  There's virtually no advertising, so why would this possibly be sold out, especially on the last night it's playing?  I headed back to ask.  The cashier told me I needed to go in to buy my ticket at the guest register.  Okay, now we're getting somewhere.  I figure that maybe attendance is so low they're waiting to start the film until they have some people to watch it, and maybe they put "Sold Out" on that movie to dissuade people from buying tickets for it so they wouldn't have to show it.

Inside, there's a couple there wanting to see it, too.  The girl taking tickets was whispering something to them before the manager came up and they said something like "oh, really?"  Perhaps this confirmed my guess that attendance was low.  I wasn't sure, but it seemed as if it could be the case.  Anyway, the manager comes up to the desk and I say "One for Undertow, please."  She frowns and tells me they're having problems with the projector and/or the print and they won't be showing it (or Bridget Jones 2 -- haha) tonight, and I could see another movie if I liked.  I said, "nah," and left, cursing my bad luck.  (This was the last showing on the last night the film would be at this theatre.)

Quote from: wantautopia?So here's a funny story about trying to see Undertow.  Not funny "ha-ha," mind you, but funny "boo-hoo."

So I missed Undertow the whole week it was playing in the town where I attend university.  I get ready to head home for Christmas break, and see that it's playing there (at a 22-screen multiplex, of all places).  So I make plans to drive an extra 30 minutes away from where I'm staying to get to that theatre for a 9:40 showing.  I get there, and I see on the marquee it says "Sold Out."  I hesitate for a bit, standing in line, then leave, a bit dejected, not wanting to look like an idiot, asking for a ticket to a movie that's "Sold Out."

I get in my car and starts to leave and it dawns on me: this is a big city with over a half a million people, only one art house and this film isn't playing at it.  There's virtually no advertising, so why would this possibly be sold out, especially on the last night it's playing?  I headed back to ask.  The cashier told me I needed to go in to buy my ticket at the guest register.  Okay, now we're getting somewhere.  I figure that maybe attendance is so low they're waiting to start the film until they have some people to watch it, and maybe they put "Sold Out" on that movie to dissuade people from buying tickets for it so they wouldn't have to show it.

Inside, there's a couple there wanting to see it, too.  The girl taking tickets was whispering something to them before the manager came up and they said something like "oh, really?"  Perhaps this confirmed my guess that attendance was low.  I wasn't sure, but it seemed as if it could be the case.  Anyway, the manager comes up to the desk and I say "One for Undertow, please."  She frowns and tells me they're having problems with the projector and/or the print and they won't be showing it (or Bridget Jones 2 -- haha) tonight, and I could see another movie if I liked.  I said, "nah," and left, cursing my bad luck.  (This was the last showing on the last night the film would be at this theatre.)

ha-ha.




sorry. :?

hey, dont worry about it.  that story was more entertaining than the movie.  just kidding all you DGG fans, sheesh.

Not funny "ha-ha."  Funny "boo-hoo." :evil:

Ha Ha!

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fanimatedtv.about.com%2Flibrary%2Fgraphics%2Fnelson.jpg&hash=3213ce453800463e999056821c45f044aaeff199)

On Thursday nights, it's not uncommon for projectionists to cancel the last shows of movies (by locking the show in the schedule program, resulting in a 'sold out' display on the marquee) that will be leaving the theater that night so that they can test screen the new prints for the evening and get the old (canceled) movies torn down...otherwise, they have to wait until the very end of the night to do it. It's purely selfish, since the only reason they do it is to get off work earlier. I used to do it all the time, though. And I used the 'problem with projector/print' excuse all the time.

Quote from: David HannumThere's a sucker born every minute.

Quote from: GhostboyOn Thursday nights, it's not uncommon for projectionists to cancel the last shows of movies (by locking the show in the schedule program, resulting in a 'sold out' display on the marquee) that will be leaving the theater that night so that they can test screen the new prints for the evening and get the old (canceled) movies torn down...otherwise, they have to wait until the very end of the night to do it. It's purely selfish, since the only reason they do it is to get off work earlier. I used to do it all the time, though. And I used the 'problem with projector/print' excuse all the time.

Ghostboy, you of all people should not be one to deny others of cinema. shame on you.

Undertow is DGG's Malick influence fused with the french new wave.  I'm still undecided on my thoughts of the film.  I can say this:

I enjoyed the film.
It is certainly not a masterpiece.

the masterpiece finally comes to dvd...

Title: Undertow
Released: 26th April 2005
SRP: $26.98

Further Details
MGM Home Entertainment has officially announced Undertow which stars Jamie Bell, Josh Lucas and Dermot Mulroney. From the acclaimed writer-director of All the Real Girls comes this haunting and evocative thriller about two generations of brothers embroiled in a violent past they cannot escape. The disc will be available to own from the 26th April, priced at around $26.98. The film itself will be presented in 1.85:1 anamorphic widescreen along with an English Dolby Digital 5.1 track. Extras will include an audio commentary by Director David Gordon Green and Jamie Bell, an Under the Undertow feature With Optional Introduction by Josh Lucas, deleted scenes, an animated photo gallery and the films trailer.

Quote from: SHAFTRUndertow is DGG's Malick influence fused with the french new wave.  I'm still undecided on my thoughts of the film.  I can say this:

I enjoyed the film.
It is certainly not a masterpiece.

french new wave?  how's so?

Whichever store I go to will probably tell me they're closing early to take inventory and they can't sell me a copy.

Quote from: pete

Quote from: SHAFTRUndertow is DGG's Malick influence fused with the french new wave.  I'm still undecided on my thoughts of the film.  I can say this:

I enjoyed the film.
It is certainly not a masterpiece.

french new wave?  how's so?

the freeze frames a la Truffaut

aaaaahhh yes, the masterpeice comes home
on april 26 we will finally all have a chance to own this masterpeice... :notworthy:

Own? how bout finally SEE.

Yes, so I finally did get to see this.

I enjoyed it.  It's a genre movie, no doubt, and is more limited than Green's previous movies.  But all of Green's movies require more than one viewing to work properly.  During the first viewing, because you don't know what happens, you're always going to wonder what happens next.  That's not the way a David Gordon Green movie works.  The main premise behind each of his movies is to spend a couple of hours getting absorbed in a mood, an atmosphere, and just have a good time there.  Of course every movie has mood and atmosphere, but few do it as well or focus on it as much as Green does.

Anyway, after watching it the second time with commentary by Green and Jamie Bell, I appreciated it even more.  It's not as powerful as Green's two previous films, but it still really works.  I don't think it's necessarily supposed to be as powerful, and more of just a good time at the movies with this suspenseful on-the-run movie.  It's not super duper suspenseful, but it's still good fun.

And you should all hear THIS SONG (http://www.cltrock.com/2004_03_pyramid/pyramid_monster_in_the_canyon.mp3).  It comes on at the end credits of Undertow.  Interesting fact: Pat Healy, who plays a mildly retarded machanic in the movie, improv'd some mumbling/singing about a "monster in the canyon."  Green decided to make that a theme of the movie, and got two bands to each do a song around that theme.  Two completely different songs, just with the same theme.  And this is the version that plays at the end credits, done by the band Pyramid (it's called "Monster in the Canyon").  It's a new favorite of mine already.  It's a free download, so don't wait to get it.

Yep.  It's a masterpiece.  The 'scene' (you know, the one where the shit goes down) was brilliantly done.  The use of the mirror-- just that one fucking shot-- took it from what could have been a standard plot mechanism, to something incredibly tragic and disturbing.  It's crazy to me how just one little touch like that can make an image all the more powerful.  The film-nerd in me would have liked to have seen more aesthetic craziness throughout (in the opening, when the cop cars hit the mud and freeze-framed, I howled and instantly wanted to watch 'The Parallax View's chase scene), but that's as far as complaints get-- and I'm sure it would have been a disservice to the story anyway.

All these positive posts make me really want to see this quite badly.

but who benefits from reading that?

Quote from: Weak2ndActYep.  It's a masterpiece.  The 'scene' (you know, the one where the shit goes down) was brilliantly done.  The use of the mirror-- just that one fucking shot-- took it from what could have been a standard plot mechanism, to something incredibly tragic and disturbing.  It's crazy to me how just one little touch like that can make an image all the more powerful.  The film-nerd in me would have liked to have seen more aesthetic craziness throughout (in the opening, when the cop cars hit the mud and freeze-framed, I howled and instantly wanted to watch 'The Parallax View's chase scene), but that's as far as complaints get-- and I'm sure it would have been a disservice to the story anyway.

SPOILER




Yeah, yeah, whatever.  For those who just want to WATCH a movie and ENJOY it, The Undertow was a major disappointment.  I love DGG, however, this movie was relentlessly boring.  Not only was it boring, but you couldn't quite place what you were supposed to be feeling, because one minute the dad dies, and the next an african american woman can't breast feed her child.  Oh wow.  Yup, I said it, major fucking disappointment.

Quote from: Weak2ndActYep.  It's a masterpiece.  The 'scene' (you know, the one where the shit goes down) was brilliantly done.  The use of the mirror-- just that one fucking shot-- took it from what could have been a standard plot mechanism, to something incredibly tragic and disturbing.  It's crazy to me how just one little touch like that can make an image all the more powerful.  The film-nerd in me would have liked to have seen more aesthetic craziness throughout (in the opening, when the cop cars hit the mud and freeze-framed, I howled and instantly wanted to watch 'The Parallax View's chase scene), but that's as far as complaints get-- and I'm sure it would have been a disservice to the story anyway.

:yabbse-thumbup:  :bravo:
i agree.  this film is a fucking masterpiece.  fianlly saw this.  and lived up to all of my precopncieved expectations.   DDG is a fucking badass.   nice to see a fellow southerner push film art.  

warning:::::::::::::::do not buy this thinking its a standard conventional thriller...its not[thankfully]
for those of you who are on the fence on on if you should buy it-do so!  it has my approval.  and i got great taste :yabbse-grin: .


spoilers.............

-like w2a mentioned that scene with lucas slitting his brothers throat-mirror image. :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:   that was fucking killer.  just that idea of the mirror turned a standard slit throat scene into something  i will never forget.  

-also that nail in foot in the beggining was sick..nice effect


i would also like to get peoples interpretations of the ending.   i read one that reflects my viewpoint.....which is:

when chris drops the coins into the water, hes paying the ferryman to tak ehim across to the otherside.  [hence the subsequent ocean scene] and chris actaully dies and what you see at the end at the hospital is what chris wrote in the bottle ------------his "happpy ending"

end of spoilersssssssssssssssssss...


enough of my bad grammar and cliched adjectives.  i will end this by sayin gsee this mother fucker.  ............its up their with mulholland dr. IMO>>>>>>>>>>>as a great film post 2000

Have calmed down after disappointing viewing.  Let me make myself clear, I did not like this movie because I expected something completely different from it.  David Gordon Green makes movies with "perfect" interpretations of the human condition.  I just didn't feel it with this one.

Also, I was watching with a mother who is post-op... so playing nursemaid kind of killed the concentration.  This is my version of backpedalling.

I kind of felt the same way. I would say it's very well directed and the actors are great. I was a little let down by the story and the character development, but it's still strong and authentic. A few of the chase scenes (particularly the first one in the house) were really intense and scary.

this is greens best movie.

which isnt saying much.  just kidding guys, he's okay.

I still think All the Real Girls is his best movie yet

Quote from: Small Town LonerI still think All the Real Girls is his best movie yet

Uh, yeah!   :bravo:

Such a good movie.  Before I get to the good, let me just say:  all negative art used (the kid throwing the rock, the man running) was absurd.  The fact that Green can't even pull it off is enought to convince me that it should never ever even thought of being used in any legitimate movie again.

The lighting in the film really is a treat.  It's good to see a director take a minimalist approach, especially in these days, and is what really connects the movie with 70's filmmaking for me.  It has a natural feel to it, and I expect that much of it was indeed natural.  This should come as no surprise given Green's approach to production design.  The score was even better than I expected.

I disagree with detractors who say that the movie can't find a tone.  I think that combining an artistic style with a b-movie doesn't make for a muddled mess, but draws a softer border around the images.  It appeals equally to the hemispheres of my brain, you know.  I think this kind of filmmaking should be encouraged and pushed even further.  Film noir gets all the credit when such a theory is talked about, but I think it could happen in other areas as well.  Undertow was a good step in a direction that could only get better with focus.

I'm not going to call it a masterpiece, but it's a fuck of a film.

"A FUCK OF A FILM!" ONE OF "THE BEST FILMS OF 2004."
-ROGER EBERT

Quote. Not only was it boring, but you couldn't quite place what you were supposed to be feeling,

do you have to be told what to feel?

Quote from: Chrisdarko

Quote. Not only was it boring, but you couldn't quite place what you were supposed to be feeling,

do you have to be told what to feel?

Before you criticize me, maybe you should go read up on some of the comments I've made about "All the Real Girls".  It's no secret on this board that "All the Real Girls" is my favorite movie, and it's also no secret that I'm rather analytical and have "good" taste in films (even if I'm not a cinephile).  Get over yourself kid.  Before you try to be all Xixax Hardcore, post more than 12 times, and get to know who you're talking to.

Xixax Hardcore = crabby.

Finally, FINALLY got to see it. To me, it is a masterpiece. Thank God for David Gordon Green. He paints such a beautiful picture and I loved the way he crafted this genre.
Such a blessing.

Quote from: Thrindle"All the Real Girls" is my favorite movie

It only took 2 years and 5 viewings, but it is becoming a favorite of mine as well.  Probably not my very favorite favorite, but pretty durned close.  And it's a huge influence on my own work.  I'm gearing up for a 6th viewing, as it ships from Amazon soon (yes, I only now just bought it).  It's my favorite DGG movie, and I love all three of them.  Green is definitely a favorite director of mine--especially influential at this stage in my life and filmmaking style.  Not that our styles are similar at all, really, but his process of making movies appeals to me very much, and I like the organic feel to his movies very much.  It's influenced the way I direct, I suppose I should say, with a lot of focus on atmosphere, tone, and just really allowing the audience to be absorbed to a real PLACE.

He has more fun with Undertow, which I like a lot, whether or not every little thing works.  It definitely benefits from repeat viewings, and I do think that it's just a very fun movie after you get past the odd bits and pieces.  It's also his funniest movie to date.  ("All right, y'all, eat some of this shit!")

Quote from: matt35mmGreen is definitely a favorite director of mine--especially influential at this stage in my life and filmmaking style.  Not that our styles are similar at all, really, but his process of making movies appeals to me very much, and I like the organic feel to his movies very much.  It's influenced the way I direct, I suppose I should say, with a lot of focus on atmosphere, tone, and just really allowing the audience to be absorbed to a real PLACE.

I completely agree.

Watching his movies always reminds me how going further isn't always getting better.  He has this restraint which is really inspiring to me, the way he can be so particular and beefy and in some areas and then hold back in the areas that other filmmakers would explode with.  Such as, he sticks to his characters.  I fucking love filmmakers who stick to their characters.  He acknowledges the films that have come before him, but he chooses to not try and use them all.  He is creative with plot devices.  And he trusts low-key, naturalistic lighting, which you barely see any of these days.

Quote from: sundown all overlet me just say:  all negative art used (the kid throwing the rock, the man running) was absurd.  The fact that Green can't even pull it off is enought to convince me that it should never ever even thought of being used in any legitimate movie again.

I loved this. I totally thought he pulled it off. that whole sequence felt like a nice way to open the movie. maybe i liked it so, because it is a technique that maybe you'd see used in a pop gangster film or something, but never in a southern tale such as this. i can't really explain why, but it really worked for me.
why would you call it negative art?

Quote from: POZER

Quote from: sundown all overlet me just say:  all negative art used (the kid throwing the rock, the man running) was absurd.  The fact that Green can't even pull it off is enought to convince me that it should never ever even thought of being used in any legitimate movie again.

I loved this. I totally thought he pulled it off. that whole sequence felt like a nice way to open the movie. maybe i liked it so, because it is a technique that maybe you'd see used in a pop gangster film or something, but never in a southern tale such as this. i can't really explain why, but it really worked for me.
why would you call it negative art?

He means when the image actually converts to negative (the colors reverse).  Or like when he throws the rock it's (color change) THROW (color change) THROW (color change) THROW (color change) THROW.

Sorry man. Your right I should post more I wasn't trying to call you out or anything and I apologize if that is what you thought. :oops:

Quote from: ChrisdarkoSorry man. Your right I should post more I wasn't trying to call you out or anything and I apologize if that is what you thought. :oops:

Pssst... I'm female, man...  and I am uber sensitive of this thread, because on so many levels, I really wanted to love this movie... and I feel as though I didn't get the "point" which is shitty.  OH THE VULNERABILITY!

Thrindle, I'm always here for you. :oops:

:oops: sorry about calling u a man. And your right I don't know you or the ppl that post on here. I just have a lot of dumb friends that hate movies that make ppl have to think and i over reacted on the sight sorry again.

Quote from: Thrindle

Quote from: ChrisdarkoSorry man. Your right I should post more I wasn't trying to call you out or anything and I apologize if that is what you thought. :oops:

Pssst... I'm female, man...  and I am uber sensitive of this thread, because on so many levels, I really wanted to love this movie... and I feel as though I didn't get the "point" which is shitty.  OH THE VULNERABILITY!

Hell, sensitive movies are my favorite thing in the entire world, you know.  A good movie that captures the human spirit makes any one of my days.  That being said, Undertow completely amazed me, because what I am even more than a lover of humans, is a lover of film.  Undertow was absolutely a fantastic genre film, and it also had DGG's relentless character designs.  For me it was sleeping with my wife and her sister.

Quote from: MeatThrindle, I'm always here for you. :oops:

Dude, I don't have my glasses on, couldn't quit make out what you said.   :yabbse-tongue:

Quote from: To meatball, Thrindlequit

Exactly.

Quote from: MacGuffin

Quote from: To meatball, Thrindlequit

Exactly.

I jest, McG.

Quote from: matt35mm

Quote from: POZER

Quote from: sundown all overlet me just say:  all negative art used (the kid throwing the rock, the man running) was absurd.  The fact that Green can't even pull it off is enought to convince me that it should never ever even thought of being used in any legitimate movie again.

I loved this. I totally thought he pulled it off. that whole sequence felt like a nice way to open the movie. maybe i liked it so, because it is a technique that maybe you'd see used in a pop gangster film or something, but never in a southern tale such as this. i can't really explain why, but it really worked for me.
why would you call it negative art?

He means when the image actually converts to negative (the colors reverse).  Or like when he throws the rock it's (color change) THROW (color change) THROW (color change) THROW (color change) THROW.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.austinpowers.com%2Fobjects%2Fimages%2Fevilpinky.jpg&hash=047c2b2ebadf97c388ee3e4a681f4e6ad856c6a0)

Riiight.

I hope this isn't Green's best movie, because I didn't enjoy this at all. I've heard so much positive buzz surrounding Green and his work, that this was a very sorry introduction. The cinematography was gorgeous and I've always admired Philip Glass. But it felt so staged at times, then completely shoddy and boring at other times. Dare I say, Undertow was film student quality. Not the level of a film that involves Terrence Malick.

Picture in sig: -5 points
Changing to 1 letter name (that's already been used): -15 points
Being far too avatar/sig obsessed with a mediocre popcorn movie yet thinking something that has an ounce of artistic merit is "filmstudent quality" -10 points

We'll just add that up... yes, that's minus thirty points there.  I don't think you're going to be able to make that up in time.  I'm afraid you're going to have to just drop out.

Quote from: RegularKaratePicture in sig: -5 points
Changing to 1 letter name (that's already been used): -15 points
Being far too avatar/sig obsessed with a mediocre popcorn movie yet thinking something that has an ounce of artistic merit is "filmstudent quality" -10 points

We'll just add that up... yes, that's minus thirty points there.  I don't think you're going to be able to make that up in time.  I'm afraid you're going to have to just drop out.

Glad you feel that way about me, RK.
How do you feel about the movie Undertow?

Quote from: RegularKaratehas an ounce of artistic merit

What ounce of artistic merit? I don't care if the film was awarded the medal of honor for saving Mother Teresa's life, my opinion stands. Please explain yourself further than just quoting a blurb from your happy-to-be-a-smug-shit comments. And if you want to attack HG2G, attack it under the right thread.

When I said it was film student quality, what I meant is that Undertow feels too academic. There was nothing to connect me to the story, or to care for the characters. Technically, it's superb. But, all the character relationships seemed too familiar. I was fine with it, in hopes that it would soon go somewhere fresh that transcends the whole "dysfunctional family and all it's amazing fuckups" angle.

It didn't do that.





*Spoilers*

Instead the boys find a camp of vagrants and the older boy falls in love with a girl, while his uncle is a few hundred miles away asking fishermen the whereabouts of his two nephews. I don't need to see this dramatized. Where's it going? All it went was to the river ending. And the ending was fine, but the film could have skipped the black couple and vagrant camp, and ended an hour earlier without the aforementioned parts being missed.

Well, I didn't LOVE the film.  I've only seen it once, but I'd like to see it again.  My issue was with the comment you made with no real backing.  Now you've provided your side... good job?

"Academic"?  I think you're firing that at the moon in hopes that people will run.  The characters are very natural and realistic... people... only someone who knows what they're doing could make it so.

This is, by far, his worst film, but I don't think you're grasping the good enough to even get to the bad.  You're dismissing it as a "dysfunctional family and all it's amazing fuckups" film.

***SPOILS***

Obviously, the "black couple" scene couldn't have just been cut... this showed parents who truly loved children... it was an angle.  It was also necessary plot-wise because that's who tipped the uncle to the boys' whereabouts.

and I placed my comments on Hitchhiker's in the proper thread already.

I don't have strong feelings about this film... I was just adding up your final points as they laid.

Quote from: RegularKarateObviously, the "black couple" scene couldn't have just been cut... this showed parents who truly loved children... it was an angle.  It was also necessary plot-wise because that's who tipped the uncle to the boys' whereabouts.

I don't remember exactly why or what it was, but I do remember feeling that what was cut probably coulda/shoulda stayed in. After watching it, the scene made more sense.

Don't ask why, cause, you know, I can't remember.

The scene with the couple was beautiful, and that he included it is one of the things I love about Green. I'd say their presence, in a sense, warrants an entire half star in my own four star rating of the film. The Cain/Abel father/son dynamic is established with mythic solidarity, and then Green adds padding to this already established through line by including scenes like the black couple, or the homeless girl (herself filling an established type, admittedly, but one filled out beyond what is required by genre).

Plus, if it was cut, we wouldn't get the "All right, y'all, eat some of this shit!" line.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess from your avatar, Meatball, that you liked (maybe even LOVED) All The Real Girls?

..

caught this on dvd and was disappointed. instead of just ripping off malick's visual style, now he's ripping off malick's AND altman's. i have no problem w/ meshing a b-movie story with poetic visuals and music, but the whole thing just felt over-directed.

one thing that i was glad to see him cut back on (from all the real girls) was the use of eloquent, shakespearian dialogue being used by uneducated, backwood hicks.

Quote from: abuck1220caught this on dvd and was disappointed. instead of just ripping off malick's visual style, now he's ripping off malick's AND altman's. i have no problem w/ meshing a b-movie story with poetic visuals and music, but the whole thing just felt over-directed.

one thing that i was glad to see him cut back on (from all the real girls) was the use of eloquent, shakespearian dialogue being used by uneducated, backwood hicks.

Yeah so clearly the movie was not for you.  It's funny how one man's gold is another man's pyrite.

The last part is especially disagreeable to me.  It should be common knowledge by now that the people in Shakespeare's time did not speak like that either, he was a writer, and his distinct voices for the characters is one of the reasons he lives on.  I fucking love it when writers push for creative voices, and I think it's unfortunate that the people who do so are often frowned upon.  In All the Real Girls I felt the dialogue to be entirely appropriate, it did well to accompany the tone and flow of the film.

As for the overdone copycat directing, I think that's another unfair statement.  It would be the comparison of saying that Woody Allen stole from Bergman, that Scorsese stole from Powell, or that PTA stole from Demme Scorsese and Bergman.  It should be okay for a director to want to work inside of style, especially if they are pushing that style further, which I feel DGG does.

Also, to be topical, I think it's funny that Batman Begins is praised for taking an uber fiction story and making it realistic, while Undertow is panned for taking a realistic story and making it cinematic.

Quote from: Losing the Horse:Also, to be topical, I think it's funny that Batman Begins is praised for taking an uber fiction story and making it realistic, while Undertow is panned for taking a realistic story and making it cinematic.

The reality line is usually the thinnest and the finest. That's the usually the first and only thing people will jump on when they're leaving a theatre. I know I find myself doing it.

"The ball in Spacejam bounced too high on the second bounce after it hit the rim! (I almost typed rum.) WHAT A SHITTY MOVIE."

Bad example I know, but I can't help but namedrop sweet movies like this.

(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockingthescene.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fcarlton.jpg&hash=97073e3d3b26372334c9488e468fd009177f97cd)

Quote from: Losing the Horse:

Quote from: abuck1220caught this on dvd and was disappointed. instead of just ripping off malick's visual style, now he's ripping off malick's AND altman's. i have no problem w/ meshing a b-movie story with poetic visuals and music, but the whole thing just felt over-directed.

one thing that i was glad to see him cut back on (from all the real girls) was the use of eloquent, shakespearian dialogue being used by uneducated, backwood hicks.

Yeah so clearly the movie was not for you.  It's funny how one man's gold is another man's pyrite.

agreed. his stuff just doesn't do it for me. it just happens sometimes...depalma's the same way...just can't get into his stuff.

QuoteThe last part is especially disagreeable to me.  It should be common knowledge by now that the people in Shakespeare's time did not speak like that either, he was a writer, and his distinct voices for the characters is one of the reasons he lives on.  I fucking love it when writers push for creative voices, and I think it's unfortunate that the people who do so are often frowned upon.  In All the Real Girls I felt the dialogue to be entirely appropriate, it did well to accompany the tone and flow of the film.

well, i don't know enough about shakespearian times, so it doesn't really bother me that much in his stuff. however, i do know that uneducated hicks circa 2001 don't talk like poets or university philosophy professors.

QuoteAs for the overdone copycat directing, I think that's another unfair statement.  It would be the comparison of saying that Woody Allen stole from Bergman, that Scorsese stole from Powell, or that PTA stole from Demme Scorsese and Bergman.  It should be okay for a director to want to work inside of style, especially if they are pushing that style further, which I feel DGG does.

yeah, but all those other guys also have their own voices that make their work distinct. even though those guys you mentioned may have obvious influences, you can watch five minutes of woody allen and know that it's woody allen. other than a couple of film school 101 camera tricks, i don't feel like gordon has that voice. to me, he feels like a film student doing a malick impression...much like in the mid-90's a lot of films felt like a film student doing a tarantino impression.

i'm not saying his stuff sucks, because obviously a lot of smart people love it. it just doesn't do it for me. if everybody liked the same stuff, we wouldn't have anything fun to talk about!

Spoilers, maybe.



I liked Undertow, but was very underwhelmed.

It was really hyped up for me, and I loved all the characters, and it was shot really well... but the story seemed very lacking.  At the end, I wondered if that was it.  It seemed to move a little fast, but otherwise, I liked it.

watch it again, it gets better and it bears repeating anyway

Spoilers.

Finally saw this after much procrastination.

Overrated.

The movie started okay, slowed to a drag until the death scene, and pretty much disgusted me and lost me in ambivalence.  This is your basic genre flick with an artistic sensibility that doesn't quite get there.

The best part of the flick?  Three things come to mind: black couple, milking the cow/dancing in the rain (smacks of Buffalo '66 sensibilities), and Shiri Appleby.  She said all of twenty words, I'm betting, and her mere presence added something so nice and intangible, just to bookend this film, juxtapose it with the girl from the getgo.  This is the kind of thing DGG is good at, the kind of thing he should stick to: the subtle sensuality, the insights into human nature, rather than the shallow stupidity of violence and greed that is boring and has been done before.  I felt like I was watching a made-for-TV movie at times, and not a flick from the same guy who made a masterpiece like George Washington.  Where the setting and characters in that was fresh, here it was just monotonous.

There were so many good things about this flick that for it to be lost in the throes of genre is a mistake.  Especially the final confrontation in the river, the "come-get-me" vibe, throwing the coins in, and the hospital bed scene where the young boy pops the balloon.  It's all there.  It just didn't tie together.  The problem is, with all these elements that don't tie together, I get the feeling the tone, at least, of this movie will stick with me for a while and it just doesn't deserve it.

I'm curious as to how you'll feel if you watch it again a few months from now.

For me, the parts that you didn't like fade away pretty easliy, in terms of importance... it becomes just a framework for the things you did like.  I think it is intentionally a less ambitious movie than George Washington or All The Real Girls was, in that it did just want to get down and have a good time, old-school style, narratively.

The stylistic approach is simply Green's style, and not an attempt to "gussy up" a boring story.  The movie becomes something like a buddy of yours telling you this tall tale he heard about two kids running away from their crazy, murderous uncle.

I've learned to have a good time with this movie, and I like it a lot more now than I did when I first saw it.

I'm not saying the same will necessarily happen to you, but don't you find that after you already know what happens, you don't care at ALL about the plot elements anymore (after a second viewing and beyond of any movie)?  When I re-watch movies, it's to become absorbed by its style and tone and what it can give me in that way.  If in a few months you tried watching it again... well I don't know how you'd feel, but like I said, I'm just curious.

See, that's just the thing.  Plot is a four-letter word.  It just doesn't matter to me.  Plot is a restriction, a constriction, which ties you down, makes a movie ever so predictable.  Because there's only so many ways a story can go.  It's all been done.  Character is where it's at, and these characters are paper thin.    The best films, I believe, aren't so much concerned with plot, but with character, and how they arrive at different points along the way.  Plot, if it exists, should only be a clothesline to hang different moments in the story.  Film should be about those moments.  Before I digress too much, I'll just stop there, and say to look at the squid vs truth (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=8223) thread.

What specifically bothered me was the treatment of the murder scene.  I felt alienated.  Neon, I remember, said it brought him in.  It pushed me away.  Good scenes, I guess, do polarize audiences.  And it WAS a good scene.  But it distanced me from the movie, detached me from it.  And then for the rest of the time, it became weak genre.  Predictable.  Stand By Me lite.  And nothing was done with the great settings they came across, or the great characters (well, -- character -- Shiri's character -- which was the only one other than the black couple that I had any interest in).  So much potential missed for a real Odyssey-type story.

Quote from: onomabracadabraSee, that's just the thing.  Plot is a four-letter word.

so's Love dude, so's LOVE. yeah, think about that..

Quote from: onomabracadabraSo much potential missed for a real Odyssey-type story.

Considering That Green has said he was attempting to make a kind of Dukes of Hazzard Episode filmed by Malick crossed with Night of the Hunter all wrapped up in a young boys' wish fulfillment, I think he succeeded. I mean, it also has the potential to be a dialogue driven family drama, or a gritty, poor children ont he streets of Savannah movie ala City of God. Many films have the potential to be many things, you can't go into it expecting to see a road movie. Come to it fresh, otherwise you're just criticizing it for not living up to whatever expectations of story you placed on it. And it sounds like you have something against narrative film anyway, what with your anti-plot rant.

Quote from: onomabracadabraSee, that's just the thing.  Plot is a four-letter word.  It just doesn't matter to me.  Plot is a restriction, a constriction, which ties you down, makes a movie ever so predictable.  Because there's only so many ways a story can go.  It's all been done.  Character is where it's at, and these characters are paper thin.    The best films, I believe, aren't so much concerned with plot, but with character, and how they arrive at different points along the way.  Plot, if it exists, should only be a clothesline to hang different moments in the story.  Film should be about those moments.  Before I digress too much, I'll just stop there, and say to look at the squid vs truth (http://www.xixax.com/viewtopic.php?t=8223) thread.

I basically agree with you, except to say that it is not ONLY character that could be the focus.  You can have "those moments" with thin characters, and I, in my previous post, was going to say something about how I felt that the characters were intentionally thin for this movie.  Like I said, tall tale as told by a buddy type vibe, not a character-piece.

For example, speaking of the Odyssey, Odyssius was a boring-ass character (at least that's how I remember it).  Strong characters are more effective than plot for making a good movie, but they're not the only thing.  There are a lot of great movies with thin characters.  We can disagree there, though.

What I would say, though, is that the paper-thin characters thing was not a mistake, but rather a conscious decision on the filmmakers' parts.  This is how I saw it.

I just saw the DVD just now.  man, that second deleted scene was amazing, I guess I can kinda see some studio honchos asking Green to take it out, but I'd love to watch the movie in its entirety with that second deleted scene there in the end.