Xixax Film Forum

Since the other pole didn't mention a single female character (I still don't quite understand why), here they are.

I think PTA stands in the tradition of Bergman and Woody Allen; he writes complex, full female characters and seems to appreciate that they're human beings as legitimate and dramatic as his males. He does stand apart from many of his contemporaries in the boy's-club "indie" film world in this regard.

Enjoy voting.

Claudia, with Amber Waves in 2nd.

and I think Pubrick mentioned Claudia

QuoteHe does stand apart from many of his contemporaries in the boy's-club "indie" film world in this regard.

With Lars von Trier too. Just saying.

I voted Lena. As much as I love the closing shot of Magnolia, and all of the Claudia/Jim stuff, I think Lena [and Emily Watson as Lena] is the best female character Anderson has written as yet.

Quote from: The Silver Bullet

QuoteHe does stand apart from many of his contemporaries in the boy's-club "indie" film world in this regard.

With Lars von Trier too. Just saying.

I'll agree with you there, though Stephanie Zecharek (in Salon) wrote that PTA was "the anti-Lars von Trier." (In her view, von Trier likes to see women as victims and takes sadistic pleasure in their inevitably horrifying fates.) I don't agree with her, but it's an interesting viewpoint that deserves consideration.

Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanClaudia, with Amber Waves in 2nd.

and I think Pubrick mentioned Claudia

You can vote that up top. No other votes for Claudia as of yet.

I actually dislike Linda, and am rather indifferent in terms of Amber. I am hoping that the next time Anderson uses Moore, he uses her in a new way. They are fine parts, and finely played, but they aren't really performance pieces.

My opinion, not gospel, you can't touch me...

Quote from: The Silver BulletI actually dislike Linda

?!?!?!?!?!

I think she's a great character. The so-called "hysterical woman" is a brilliant analogue to Walters's so-called "drug addict victim." Both are made human, imploding (I think) the sexist categories. Like the other characters, they're people the world would narrowly judge without considering where they're coming from, and more harshly because they're women and therefore supposed to be "likable" and supposed not do gross things like stick up for themselves when they're misunderstood and cornered and attacked, or do drugs and scream at their father because they were abused. I actually sort of think the very concept of disliking Linda is under attack by her presence and actions in the film... I think the drugstore scene is a triumph, really.

QuoteI actually sort of think the very concept of disliking Linda is under attack by her presence and actions in the film...

Oh, I get her presence and actions in Magnolia. I respect the choice to have her there. She is a very well crafted character. I just personally dislike her as a person. I believe that, sure, she is now in love with Earl, and that is just fine. I don't believe [so much] that her actions are the result of that love, but out of a more selfish need to redeem herself and rid herself of any guilt she may feel after his death.

Of course, the suicide attempt maybe disproves my point, and so maybe I am just shallow. Not that I think I'm shallow. I don't.

Damn, i was going to open up a pole exactly like this. oh well. My vote goes to Amber. Second is Clementine because she is da hottest!!! And that waitress outfit :-D

But to tell you the truth, and please dont crucify me for this, im not really a big fan of PTA's female characters. None of them really interest me in the same way that his male characters do. IT IS NOT A GAY THING!!! I love alot of female character, Quentin Tarrantino's Mia Wallace was an excellent character, althought he is not half the director PTA is. It's just a personal opinion, so excuse me if you disagree. Alot of my friends do.

BTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

Who is Gweneviere, may I ask? I know she's not from BN, I know that film all to well. My guess is she's from Magnolia, but I honestly can't think of her.

She is the woman who interviews Tom Cruise.

Meanwhile, I think Tarantino is half the director Anderson is. They make completely different films for Christ's sake. They're easily as good as each other. Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were both outstanding pieces of filmmaking, and Jackie Brown was by far one of the best movies of 1997, along with [ironically] Boogie Nights. Trying to draw a distinction between the two directors, to me, personally, seems so stupid. Let's compare chalk and cheese now, shall we?

Quote from: The Silver BulletShe is the woman who interviews Tom Cruise.

Ah yes, thats right. Thank

Quote from: The Silver BulletMeanwhile, I think Tarantino is half the director Anderson is. They make completely different films for Christ's sake. They're easily as good as each other. Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction were both outstanding pieces of filmmaking, and Jackie Brown was by far one of the best movies of 1997, along with [ironically] Boogie Nights. Trying to draw a distinction between the two directors, to me, personally, seems so stupid. Let's compare chalk and cheese now, shall we?.

I never compared the two, dude. All i said was that I think PTA is a much better director then he is. Kevin Smith makes completely different films to Scorsese, so is it wronge to say that Scorsese absolutly shits all over Kevin Smith?

I love Tarantino, ALOT. I can't count how many times I've seen RD and PF. Tarantino makes crime films, that are just so fucking great, but each have simular ingrediance, so to speak. He hasn't really developed in the way that PTA has. And hey, I'm not saying he should. He's doing great the way he's going and if he wants to stay that way, I'm happy, cause im confident he'll keep making excellent films (although I am a little nervous about KB). But PTA took the challenge of exploring news areas. He gives each of his films a distinc style, and has clearly mastered a variety of genres. And it really takes a fucking genius to do this as well as PTA has. So I guess it's just a matter of opinion. I think PTA is the finest director today, so don't take this the wrong way. I am obsessed with Tarantino's films, but just don't have the same passion for them as I do with PTAs. Sorry.

Actually, Scorsese DOES shit all over Kevin Smith. That's like comparing an Olympic sprinter and a cripple in a race.

I would pick Claudia, but my little head votes Rollergirl, cuz she never takes off her skates... but luckily, everything else.

Quote from: Brock Landers

BTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

I have a really, really hard time believing this. I may not think Heather Graham is much of an actress, but I think Rollergirl is just as sympathetic as any of BN's other major characters...

How do you infer this? I hope it's wishful thinking ("I don't like Rollergirl, so PTA must have intended us to hate her") and not something PTA said...?

Quote from: The Silver Bullet

QuoteI actually sort of think the very concept of disliking Linda is under attack by her presence and actions in the film...

Oh, I get her presence and actions in Magnolia. I respect the choice to have her there. She is a very well crafted character. I just personally dislike her as a person. I believe that, sure, she is now in love with Earl, and that is just fine. I don't believe [so much] that her actions are the result of that love, but out of a more selfish need to redeem herself and rid herself of any guilt she may feel after his death.

Of course, the suicide attempt maybe disproves my point, and so maybe I am just shallow. Not that I think I'm shallow. I don't.

Yes, but... Earl has plenty to feel guilty for, too. As do most of the characters. With the exception of Jimmy Gator, they all take steps to redeem themselves. What makes Linda's attempt "selfish" but, say, T.J. Mackey's unselfish? Or Claudia's (we assume)? Or Earl's need to see his son? Or Jim Kurring's desire to stop being so judgmental and self-righteous? Aren't those all selfish in a way, because they will get the characters something they want?

I don't think any of the motivations are PURELY selfish, but there's a selfish element any time someone asks forgiveness, just as there is in granting it. PTA gets the complexity of human emotion; Magnolia sure as hell ain't black and white on this stuff. The characters each have good parts and an ugly side, which makes them... HUMAN.

Anyways, I voted Linda as my favorite PTA female character. My emotional reaction to her in the film, as to most of the characters, but especially with her, was to feel very moved and very protective. I couldn't abide the people in the theatre who laughed at her breaking down any more than I could people who laughed at Jim and Claudia's high-strung chance meeting. Where IS their fucking decency??[/i]

Yeah, Paul doesn't want us to hate any of his characters. Even though he tries to rag on Jimmy Gator, when you watch Magnolia you can see how lovely the camera coddles even him. Like people have said before, Paul's humanity is like that of Fellini (who even made Nazis seem like okay guys). Because human understanding of every character creates the deepest and most lasting portraits.

But that being said, he certainly doesn't make EXCUSES for Rollergirl. I like that.

i do not understand that thing about rollergirl, huh ???

is that a macho thing or worse a gayish p.c thing

both groups get on more nerves

someone please explain this Mary Lynn Rajskub is in third place ??????????


what the ???? ahhh wrong

i would like to hear the three people who have voted for her to explain why

I had to go with Amber. I think we've discussed this before, but Lena wasn't all that interesting of a character to me. Perhaps she has been elevated simply due to Barry's adoration of her, but I don't think that she herself was all that remarkable.

And where did you get that idea about Rollergirl? I'm not saying that it's definitely false, but it seems unlikely. You have to sympathize with her a bit, especially following the "On the Prowl" scene. (Or at least up until she kicks the guy).

Quote from: A perfectly Good whiteBoy

is that a macho thing or worse a gayish p.c thing

I don't understand your correlation of the two things. I'm a perfectly good gay boy, but not really p.c. at all. If I had to choose, though, no way I'd choose macho. That's been riding high for centuries; your "gayish p.c." has only been around a couple of decades or so. It's extraneous bullshit by now, when everyone pretty much realizes that most people have family members or someone they care about who is gay, blah blah blah, but it's still hardly as prevalent or pervasive as macho bullshit.

In fact, I've gotten in plenty of arguments with my friends defending PTA's movies, which some of them seem to think diminish the gay characters. I think the gay characters get equal treatment 'cos PTA's NOT trying to be p.c., so in the long run, it's much better to see a minor gay character in a PTA film than to see some horrible indie gay movie (god, do they get any more horrible?) that exists only to say "it's okay to be gay!" and insult you with their one-dimensional, stereotypical, solipsistic, lifestyle-magazine version of gayness. They're so fucking weak, most of them. But it's not even a question in PTA's films; he's beyond it, grown up enough about it to consider them as full human beings whose fate and presentation is not wholly determined by their sexuality, and move on to the real issues in people's lives. Almost any gay filmmaker could take a lesson from PTA's honorable, uncompromised depictions.

PTA's characters always feel relevant regardless of who or what they are because he makes them, as I said before, so human. I think he respects them all, regardless of how he disposes of them; he's showing us that they are not there for us to simplistically pigeonhole into "moral" categories and judge, that everyone deserves respect and an attempt at understanding where they're coming from.

I like the Fellini comparison someone made before. He was also a filmmaker who resisted the urge to moralize, and who therefore came up with films that say more about morality- true, deep, difficult, complicated morality of the humanistic sort- than many.

Quote from: A perfectly Good whiteBoysomeone please explain this Mary Lynn Rajskub is in third place ??????????


what the ???? ahhh wrong

i would like to hear the three people who have voted for her to explain why

I didn't vote for her, but I totally understand it. She's fuckin' funny. I hope he uses her again. I was so happy they included some of her bits on the Magnolia DVD.

Let's compare chalk and cheese now, shall we?

personally i'd say cheese. you cant put chalk on bread.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: A perfectly Good whiteBoysomeone please explain this Mary Lynn Rajskub is in third place ??????????


what the ???? ahhh wrong

i would like to hear the three people who have voted for her to explain why

I didn't vote for her, but I totally understand it. She's fuckin' funny. I hope he uses her again. I was so happy they included some of her bits on the Magnolia DVD.

and i thought that i could not think any less of you

please tell us why and how you think she is funny

Quote from: A perfectly Good whiteBoy

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: A perfectly Good whiteBoysomeone please explain this Mary Lynn Rajskub is in third place ??????????


what the ???? ahhh wrong

i would like to hear the three people who have voted for her to explain why

I didn't vote for her, but I totally understand it. She's fuckin' funny. I hope he uses her again. I was so happy they included some of her bits on the Magnolia DVD.

and i thought that i could not think any less of you

It's crushing, I know. I'm sure you'll get over it. It's so difficult to please everyone, so I don't bother. Like all of us, I say what I want. I know you understand.

Was she not hilarious in the PDL scenes where she introduces Lena to Barry? I definitely thought she was. "I'm sorry he's acting weird and wearing that suit." She won't leave the suit alone. It really bothers her. That's funny. I'm pretty sure PTA hired her because she's well-known for being a comedic personality, and he was making a romantic comedy, so...

What's your problem with her?

she is one of the worst stand up comics in history and well her acting is not much better

she made it into the pta world by being jon brions girlfriend, so she is a friend.

but i can not see her being cast based on talent .

but she was good in magnolia, not the out takes, the film itself

she hit the roof of her talent in that part, anything else is well , not good

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Loveshe is one of the worst stand up comics in history and well her acting is not much better

she made it into the pta world by being jon brions girlfriend, so she is a friend.

but i can not see her being cast based on talent .

but she was good in magnolia, not the out takes, the film itself

she hit the roof of her talent in that part, anything else is well , not good

Well, comedy is infinitely more subjective than drama. But she makes me laugh. She made me laugh on Mr. Show and she made laugh in PDL. So, I like her. I think she's fuckin' funny. I haven't seen her stand-up.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Loveshe is one of the worst stand up comics in history and well her acting is not much better

she made it into the pta world by being jon brions girlfriend, so she is a friend.

but i can not see her being cast based on talent .

but she was good in magnolia, not the out takes, the film itself

she hit the roof of her talent in that part, anything else is well , not good

Well, comedy is infinitely more subjective than drama. But she makes me laugh. She made me laugh on Mr. Show and she made laugh in PDL. So, I like her. I think she's fuckin' funny. I haven't seen her stand-up.

no comedy is pretty fuckin cut and dry, funny is funny

everything else is a abstract concept .

i find your screen name funny, how would you define yourself as godardian , is it only online, or in your whole life, do you go to the grocery store and pick out fruit in a godardesc fashion.

And how does one order a pizza in godardish way

Quote from: The Silver Bullet
I voted Lena. As much as I love the closing shot of Magnolia, and all of the Claudia/Jim stuff, I think Lena [and Emily Watson as Lena] is the best female character Anderson has written as yet.

really? maybe she's the most mysterious character PTA has written, i'll give her that, but I mean she is purposely written as very one-dimensional.  

as for my favorite, i'd probably go with ms. waves.

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

no comedy is pretty fuckin cut and dry, funny is funny

everything else is a abstract concept .

i find your screen name funny, how would you define yourself as godardian , is it only online, or in your whole life, do you go to the grocery store and pick out fruit in a godardesc fashion.

And how does one order a pizza in godardish way

So... everyone everywhere finds the exact same things funny? "Funny is funny?" "Cut and dried?" Makes no sense to me. I don't find that to be true at all. Maybe I know more people than you do.

See the "names" thread for more on my screen name. It's fascinating, I know. Side-splitting, really. Not like the irreproachable "Hot Puerto Rican Love" at all.

I'll just let you fantasize about how I pick out fruit and order pizza. Godard's focus upon and transfiguration of the mundane everyday rituals of modern capitalist living do apply, however. It really gets Godardian when I focus emotional energy on picking out soup and pudding, though. Especially pudding. And when my sex life intermingles with my coupon-clipping. And when I am the middleman for the Western state "funger" supply. Very Godardian, ineed. [/i]

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love



I'll just let you fantasize about how I pick out fruit and order pizza. Godard's focus upon and transfiguration of the mundane everyday rituals of modern capitalist living do apply, however. It really gets Godardian when I focus emotional energy on picking out soup and pudding, though. Especially pudding. And when my sex life intermingles with my coupon-clipping. And when I am the middleman for the Western state "funger" supply. Very Godardian, ineed. [/i]

and to think i just thought you were being pretentious

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

and to think i just thought you were being pretentious

One man's pretension is another man's ability and willingness to understand words, sentences, and concepts.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

and to think i just thought you were being pretentious

One man's pretension is another man's ability and willingness to understand words, sentences, and concepts.

again cut and dry, every thing else is just semantics

some people think taking a tennis ball and painting it blue and throwing it inside a hot tub, is playing basketball

its not

however somebody out there could arguee that this is their way of playing b ball

that does not make it so.

but back to your name, i respect a lot of people in the creative world and non of these people would use the name " Godardian" unless they were using it in a ironic way, like in a spinal tap-ish version of what a pretenious film snob would be like , what i mean by that , they would only use that name if they were making fun of someone who would use that name with out irony.

like i just can not see say i dunno paul thomas anderson using that name

i say him as a point of refernce being that you and me both are fond of his work

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

and to think i just thought you were being pretentious

One man's pretension is another man's ability and willingness to understand words, sentences, and concepts.

again cut and dry, every thing else is just semantics

some people think taking a tennis ball and painting it blue and throwing it inside a hot tub, is playing basketball

its not

however somebody out there could arguee that this is their way of playing b ball

that does not make it so.

but back to your name, i respect a lot of people in the creative world and non of these people would use the name " Godardian" unless they were using it in a ironic way, like in a spinal tap-ish version of what a pretenious film snob would be like , what i mean by that , they would only use that name if they were making fun of someone who would use that name with out irony.

like i just can not see say i dunno paul thomas anderson using that name

i say him as a point of refernce being that you and me both are fond of his work

Umm... you actually expect me to defend my screen name to you? I thought that was the joke. Why the fuck should I? Do you think I owe that to you, or something? Do you take my screen name that personally?

In my experience, "pretentious" is a catch-all word stupid people use to make themselves feel better. All words are subject to semantics, you know.

And I think Godard had an excellent sense of humor, personally. He was the thorn in the side of the film snobs of his day.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love



And I think Godard had an excellent sense of humor, personally. He was the thorn in the side of the film snobs of his day.

ahh the irony, that the children of these snobs would someday name drop the fuck out of him, now i just have to sit and wait for your children to talk about me

by the way i do not care about your screen name i am just pointing out how lame it is, and as someone who finds screen names to be a good measure of what a person is like well you do the math

what does my name say, well that i do not really care much, and that it is my words that i want people to care about, not the movies i like or the bands i like . Its all about the words, and not even how i spell them, more so how i connect them

All of this of course will someday lead to me and world domination via DANCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I SHALL take over the world someday with my love of MAMBO

Let's make Hot Puerto Rican Love!

By the way, I voted Mary Lynn. She makes me laugh, i thought she kicked. close second is linda, because she also made me laugh in a demented woe is me way.

Quote from: bonanzatazLet's make Hot Puerto Rican Love!

.

Thats what I'm talkin bout , now if only my town would have a Puerto rican pride parade

:: gets the mayor on the phone::

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Brock Landers

BTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

I have a really, really hard time believing this. I may not think Heather Graham is much of an actress, but I think Rollergirl is just as sympathetic as any of BN's other major characters...

How do you infer this? I hope it's wishful thinking ("I don't like Rollergirl, so PTA must have intended us to hate her") and not something PTA said...?

I don't think PTA ever said this, but that's the impression I got from the "on the lookout" scene, where Rollergirl is cracking that guys head open with her skates screaming "you can't ever disrespect me" as if she thinks she's a god or something. Well, I sure as hell hate her. But Im going to have to take back my comment. Ofcourse, just because I don't like her, doesn't mean I think she's a bad character.

Quote from: Brock Landers

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Brock Landers

BTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

I have a really, really hard time believing this. I may not think Heather Graham is much of an actress, but I think Rollergirl is just as sympathetic as any of BN's other major characters...

How do you infer this? I hope it's wishful thinking ("I don't like Rollergirl, so PTA must have intended us to hate her") and not something PTA said...?

I don't think PTA ever said this, but that's the impression I got from the "on the lookout" scene, where Rollergirl is cracking that guys head open with her skates screaming "you can't ever disrespect me" as if she thinks she's a god or something. Well, I sure as hell hate her. But Im going to have to take back my comment. Ofcourse, just because I don't like her, doesn't mean I think she's a bad character.

Yes, it was an extreme reaction... but that guy is really viciously cruel to her and torments her every single time we see him in the movie. In fact, what he's done in the limo borders on rape, when he keeps going even though he's asked and told to stop. I wouldn't go so far as to say "he had it coming"- I think PTA sees the violence at the end of the film as a tragic consequence of overinflated egos and too much money and too much drugs, part of a vicious circle- but I have to admit, I like that guy a helluva lot less than Rollergirl, and I'm guessing PTA means for him to somehow epitomize the petty, judgmental attitude in America at that time, the same moral-majority Reaganism that took Amber's son and gets Dirk gay-bashed, and Rollergirl is the only one who gets to fight back for them.

And that scene is what kept Rollergirl from being just a bimbo. It showed the rage she had going on underneath. It didn't make me hate her at all. It made me feel bad for everyone involved, and wonder why that guy had to keep trying to put her in her place every single time he saw her. I think HE hated her, but why? Because he couldn't have her? We never see her do a thing to him until she finally loses it, but he's taunting her and treating her like she's nothing- and worse- before that. Her action was too much and not really excusable, but it was totally provoked by him, and his provocations didn't seem to have any reasonable root, just that he liked to keep this girl in her place, liked to use her to feel better about himself, I guess.

See what I mean about PTA making me feel protective of his characters?

godardian can i now call you tanya ?

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Brock Landers

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Brock Landers

BTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

judgmental attitude in America at that time, the same moral-majority Reaganism that took Amber's son .

WHAT ???????????????? She is one of my fav characters in the movie, but i do not think she should of kept her kid, and i don't think paul did eighter

julianne moore more or less said the same thing in inside the actors studio .

what makes you think she would be a good mother , her coke habit or her porn career ???? She looked at dirk like a son, yet she was the one who gave him coke . Way to go

i think amber was a beautiful soul, but she was flawed which made her all the better a character , but that does not make her a great person.

why do you think her last scene in the movie was her looking in the mirror at herself, with that sad look that says " well this is it, this is what i have made of my life"

how cliche-full of you to throw fault on the republicans all the while ignoring ones fucked up nature.

you may be protective of pta's characters , its just a shame you do not get them .

It's hard to decide who's more fucked up, the people with problems or the petty Reaganites who would unequivocally judge them as "sick" and ruthlessly punish them out of proportion to their violations. In the movie, it's the small, petty husband, the uncaring judge, the bank teller who disguises the racism of his institution by claiming they "don't finance pornography." Reaganism's goal wasn't to help- it was to politically punish and socially browbeat those who didn't fit into their concept of "traditional" into silence/submission. Thatcher, if you're in England.

I think Amber has problems, like all of them, but it's brutally unfair that they won't even let her see her son, using him as a moral judgment, punishing her (not to mention the kid, who might like some occasional supervised visitation with his own mother, regardless of her problems).

If "getting" Anderson's characters means seeing them as unworthy or sick somehow, judging them because I'm supposedly morally superior, I'm glad I don't. My interpretation is that the characters PTA shows us are supposed not to be that fundamentally different from you or me or anyone. They have the same basic human needs, but their lives have not worked out in ways that let them fulfill those needs in the traditional ways. They get hurt more that way- the world isn't kind to people who don't go about things the "right" (wing) way- but they're trying, and our hearts are with them.

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

why do you think her last scene in the movie was her looking in the mirror at herself, with that sad look that says " well this is it, this is what i have made of my life"

That is a beautiful scene, but it would destroy the beauty of it for me to be simplistic and say, "Oh, she sees how bad and wrong she was." I like to think she's having a moment of contemplation and maybe regret for some of the choices she's made. But I think we've already seen, with her second career, how she's taking a small step out of that. How she's allowed to learn from her destructive choices and try to make better ones. That she didn't need to be punished by her vindictive ex-husband and the state. Maybe she's looking into that mirror and missing her kid. I think it's a beautiful moment because it's such a simple image, yet it's loaded with interpretive possibilities. It resonates.

you didnt answer my question

would amber be a good mom ?

the more you talk about that film the less you understand it

what the fuck does race have to do with buck at the bank ????

it was a little more complex then that, i am sure if the banker was a radiohead lovin bull dyke she may of turned him down flat also, for her reasons.

the republican banker looks at porn as amoral, so he shoots it down
the bull dyke, thinks porn degrades woman so she shoots it down

however their is also a yin and yang factor

the republican banker may see that their is lrage amounts of money to be made by porn so he kiss's up to buck to get in good
or the ugly fat gross bulldyke , gives buck the loan in hopes of getting to meet rollergirl

see life is not always black and white, even if all of your cliche filled opinions are.

I think PTA Created a much deeper film then the one you are short changing with your opinions

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Loveyou didnt answer my question

would amber be a good mom ?

I think she could be allowed to see her kid.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

why do you think her last scene in the movie was her looking in the mirror at herself, with that sad look that says " well this is it, this is what i have made of my life"

That is a beautiful scene, but it would destroy the beauty of it for me to be simplistic and say, "Oh, she sees how bad and wrong she was." I like to think she's having a moment of contemplation and maybe regret for some of the choices she's made. But I think we've already seen, with her second career, how she's taking a small step out of that. How she's allowed to learn from her destructive choices and try to make better ones. That she didn't need to be punished by her vindictive ex-husband and the state. Maybe she's looking into that mirror and missing her kid. I think it's a beautiful moment because it's such a simple image, yet it's loaded with interpretive possibilities. It resonates.

again you missed the fucking point, why did pta save that for last and not the scene where she is directing.

because that scene says as much as some things change some things will always be the same.

i think he was pretty fucking clear with that shot, it was him saying

its not all fun and games, its actually a pretty fucking sad way to live a life

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

the more you talk about that film the less you understand it

Coming from you, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

the more you talk about that film the less you understand it

Coming from you, I wouldn't have it any other way.

meaning what ??

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

Quote from: godardian

its not all fun and games, its actually a pretty fucking sad way to live a life

The cliche-prohibitionist police bootleg on the side, do they?

Quotereally? maybe she's the most mysterious character PTA has written, i'll give her that, but I mean she is purposely written as very one-dimensional.

Yeah, but I dunno, I mean, she really made everything work. The film relied entirely on whether or not the audience would fall in love with her just as Barry did. And I fell in love with her, so...

I have said it once and I'll say it again, I think Punch-Drunk Love has more of Anderson in it than the other films. He said it himself, this film is all him. This is not to detract from the magnificence of the other movies, mind you, it's just you can feel the honesty in the PDL  relationship, how true the love is, how pure and good it is; it really radiates off the screen through the characters of Lena and Barry. I guess I really connected with how honest the film and characters were, and as one dimensional as you say Lena was, I stand by my vote. I really connected with Lena.

Quote from: godardian

Quote from: Hot Puerto Rican Love

Quote from: godardian

its not all fun and games, its actually a pretty fucking sad way to live a life

The cliche-prohibitionist police bootleg on the side, do they?

if a cliche police exsisted, you my friend would be al capone

Quote from: BonBon85I had to go with Amber. I think we've discussed this before, but Lena wasn't all that interesting of a character to me. Perhaps she has been elevated simply due to Barry's adoration of her, but I don't think that she herself was all that remarkable.

And where did you get that idea about Rollergirl? I'm not saying that it's definitely false, but it seems unlikely. You have to sympathize with her a bit, especially following the "On the Prowl" scene. (Or at least up until she kicks the guy).

Please, that scene made her character.  For the first time in the film, she exhibited self-respect.  She was shallow up until that point.  I think she's a great character! :roll:

Quote from: punchdrunk23Please, that scene made her character.  For the first time in the film, she exhibited self-respect.  She was shallow up until that point.  I think she's a great character! :roll:

I agree completely, and I think Rollergirl was an excellent character. I was just trying to argue against the idea that we weren't supposed to like her.

I'm sorry man. i misunderstood your post.  :oops:

Quote from: Brock LandersBTW why is Rollergirl on their. She is a character PTA intended the audience to HATE.

I regret saying this :yabbse-smiley:  You have all convinced me she is still a great character even though I don't like her personality. So no disrespect to those who voted for her.

I still do think that we were supposed to hate her as a person though. I know many of us don't, but thats my opinion. I apologise :oops: I mean, there is the part:
"Why do I like Dirk? Well, he can fuck hard or he can fuck slow."
If this don't make you hate her (as a person, not as a character), what does?

QuoteI mean, there is the part:
"Why do I like Dirk? Well, he can fuck hard or he can fuck slow."
If this don't make you hate her (as a person, not as a character), what does?

Yeah, but she's just saying that for the audience. It's in Dirk's documentary, right? I think she's playing to the porn audience, 'cos that's all she knows how to do. Those are the things she's been taught to say; that's the way she's been rewarded for being. That's the thing with this character: She's completely empty, she only knows she's good at fucking, and it's sad. That's all she's ever known or been told. So when she finally has had enough and snaps, even though it's violent and too far, it still feels liberating.

But it's your right to dislike the character. I'm just enumerating the reasons that I did end up liking her.

Quote from: godardian

QuoteI mean, there is the part:
"Why do I like Dirk? Well, he can fuck hard or he can fuck slow."
If this don't make you hate her (as a person, not as a character), what does?

Yeah, but she's just saying that for the audience. It's in Dirk's documentary, right? I think she's playing to the porn audience, 'cos that's all she knows how to do. Those are the things she's been taught to say; that's the way she's been rewarded for being. That's the thing with this character: She's completely empty, she only knows she's good at fucking, and it's sad. That's all she's ever known or been told. So when she finally has had enough and snaps, even though it's violent and too far, it still feels liberating.

Yeah, I guess you have a good point. I'll watch the film again tonight and try to focus on her more.

brock, you have no idea. get with it pal. sorry, but i think you kinda misunderstood rollergirl.

Quote from: Mr. Greenbrock, you have no idea. get with it pal. sorry, but i think you kinda misunderstood rollergirl.

Well said, Mr. Green.

Quote from: punchdrunk23

Quote from: Mr. Greenbrock, you have no idea. get with it pal. sorry, but i think you kinda misunderstood rollergirl.

Well said, Mr. Green.

..... this is funny

why is gwenovier up there? i hate that bitch.

Quote from: bonanzatazwhy is gwenovier up there? i hate that bitch.

:shock:
Gwenovier's great.  I don't know what you're talking about.  I love how she can pick apart at Frank.  Wonderful character, man, wonderful.