I thought I'd start a new post to cover our discussions after viewing the movie. I just saw it this morning and....
..don't worry, no spoilers, just vague opinons...
....it's real swell. It doesn't blow your mind like the first one, at least not visually, because while the effects and technology are hundreds of times more advanced, there's nothing quite so in-your-face innovative as bullet time. But the Burly Brawl and the car chase are awesome, as expected. And the look of Zion really surprised me...it's really interesting.
The script is where the the real innovation occurs. Sit tight through most of the film and all the awkward pacing and dime store philosophy that serves as breathers from the badass action scenes...wait for the last act, which really blew me away. I'll just put it this way. Everything changes, the stakes go WAY up, and the whole universe this movie takes place on gets a far more massive and awe-inspiring scope.
And be sure to stay through the credits (all ten minutes of 'em), cause the preview for Revolutions is just..well, you'll see it. All that rain...
I think you all should be pretty happy come Wednesday night. Some more than others.
I'm looking forward to it. Especially since I found out Monica Bellucci is in it. They could film Monica standing still for two hours, and I would pay to see it, because she is SUCH A BABE.
Fuck you and your review that makes me excited. Now I am regretting not getting my ticket for Wednesday night
I saw the thread title and thought I had somehow traveled into the future! Now I'm depressed. :cry:
Ghostboy, so early! Damn. Hopefully I'll see it Tuesday night. I look forward to it, and I'm glad the stakes are raised. It felt that sequels to the first movie would be almost meaningless.
*WARNING -- negative opinion..dont read if you have optimism for the film*
i saw it last night. i have to say i was let down... the soundtrack for reloaded absolutely blew as opposed to the 1st matrix's soundtrack with propellerheads, prodigy and such..minus rob zombie of course.
a lot of the fighting sequences looked a little rediculous to me as well. it seemed liked a video game at a lot of times.
and the way they ended the movie honestly really cheapified the entire movie for me, without giving anything away.
all in all i was let down. i hope the 3rd is better and with less cgi neo's.
http://theonion.com/onion3918/infograph_3918.html
The thing that I have disliked most about the trailers is the fact that many of the clones in the brawl, and especially the agent that leapfrogs across the cars on the freeway, look very, uh, CGI and fake. Not at all photo realistic like the Wachowski's and their minions have been claiming.
Does that carry across into the film?
Quote from: The Silver BulletDoes that carry across into the film?
Yes. Very much so.. the trailer actually makes the movie look a little bit better.
The Sims Reloaded.
*******spoiler****************************************************************too much information was given towards the end. It came way too fast and was hard to comprehend. Coolest scene was the agent smith fight scene. The cgi blends very well in the context of the fight scene. The shot of the 2 18 wheelers crashing was fucking amazing. WOW! LF has chuncked up a shit load. I dont understand how Neo could stop the sentinals in the real world. The trailer for revolotiouns looks really cool. All in all cool movie that doesnt come to a conclusion but than again is not suppose to. I will be going again this weekend. Please lets get a discussion going about all the new info that we have now found out about THE MATRIX.
QuoteThe thing that I have disliked most about the trailers is the fact that many of the clones in the brawl, and especially the agent that leapfrogs across the cars on the freeway, look very, uh, CGI and fake. Not at all photo realistic like the Wachowski's and their minions have been claiming.
Does that carry across into the film?
Yes it does carry across in the film. The scenes where Neo is fighting a army of agents looks real fake.
I saw Matrix Reloaded last night at 10 and did not like it at all. I couldn't wait for it to be over. Part of me disliking it so much was probly because I was a bit tired... As I dozed off sleeping with my head back many times, with my head tilted back looking at the ceiling and everyone avidly watching around me, I couldn't help but zero in on the horrible dialogue. After I started critiqueing the dialogue, eyes closed, the movie sucked that much more. The fighting scenes then seemed like drawn out, repetitive, "Look what we did action"
anyways i gotta run, but thats my 2 cents
chris
Dont give the movie an unfair review just because you were tired during a ten oclock showing. I think you need to get that yeast infection checked out.
yikes. why all the bad reviews? it can't be bad. it just can't. :(
QuoteDont give the movie an unfair review just because you were tired during a ten oclock showing. I think you need to get that yeast infection checked out.
I didn't give the movie a bad review because I was tired. I was saying that, being tired, made the movie suck even more then it already did.
chris
im kind of pissed -- the speakers in the theater i saw it were SO quiet -- it really takes away from the film -- especialy this one...
I'm seeing it tonight... hopefully. I'm very excited.
QuoteThe fighting scenes ... seemed like drawn out, repetitive, "Look what we did action"
What did you think the first movie was about? Bullet Time is the ultimate in drawn out "look what we did" show offs. And these are the guys that 'invented' it. Why the backlash all of a sudden?
Quote... look very, uh, CGI and fake. Not at all photo realistic ...
As much as we'd all like to pretend that the original Matrix looked wonderful... there's PLENTY of fakey-looking shots and effects. It's not that the Matrix was the best collection of photo-real effects and CGI, it was the execution that made it very, very special.
And based on what I've seen so far, the style that put the Wachowski's on the map is back in full-form. Death to nay-sayers. DEATH!
Just got back from the movie. It's funny, after all the bad press, I was growing increasingly worried that it was going to be a huge letdown... And was pleasantly surprised when it exceeded all my expectations and then some.
If you go back and watch the first one (which I did last night) you'll see how the groundwork was so expertly laid down (especially where Agent Smith is concerned and his "evolution") to sucker punch you for part 2. The first time it was all fun and games. This time it's serious (or war I guess, to bite from the Aliens tagline).
I'll admit, not all the CGI was perfect, but the action moved so fast that any quibbles were quickly forgotten.
The arcs are clear, there are questions left hanging for the conclusion, and all in all, a very satisfying flick.
By the way, did anyone else feel like this had a very Empire Strikes Back vibe? And by speaking of, The Matrix 1 & 2 also show what a f**king clod Lucas is. Stacking movie against movie... not even close.
Crowd reaction: Modest cheering and clapping, though most split and missed the teaser for 3.
I really liked this movie, but I'm not sure if I liked it more than Part 1. Part 1 was so unexpected and mindblowing to see, and by now you expect things like that. I wish I was more excited for 3 but I feel pretty damn calm
Just got back...
I liked it quit a bit... definately not as good as the first, but still pretty good.
I think the main problem with the movie and the reason a lot of people hate it is because the first twenty to thirty minutes suck. Just a poor introduction... pissy.
Then the movie picks up and continues to please.
Definately looking forward to the third.
Okay, I can finally read and post in this thread....
I'll put up a general spoiler warning just in case:
I was a bit let down...but just a bit. The opening was very tedious. The tribal dance/love scene dragged on and on and on. I feel the problem with this one (a downgrade, if you will) was the editing. Some of the fight scenes didn't seem to have a flow that the first one did. And yes, the CGI-ness of Agents Smiths and Neo did take me out of the movie a bit. And it's strange for a movie that stressed "purpose", it seemed like some scenes served none (the fight between Neo and The Oracle's protector, for example, felt like "here's a good place to put a fight"). I don't know if these scenes will be relevant to "Revolutions", but, as I felt with "X2", the bulk seemed like a lot of exposition and set up for the third.
But once it got into The Matrix, it picked up...a lot. It was great to see The Oracle (in a nice send-off) and a snide Agent Smith again. The Twins were a great addition. Goddamn that car chase scene was awesome, and has to rank right up there with the ones from "Bullitt", "French Connection" and "Ronin". And the foyer fight was a masterstoke. And I will definitely see this again; there was a lot to take in and think about, especially the Arcitect scene. This is just a snap judgment and I'm sure with further viewings and dissection I'll appreciate it better.
Yeah, I felt the beginning was kinda slow too. The thing that is kind of interesting to me is how The Matrix has bought into the "the matrix" with the product placement and the commercials (beer, cars, cell phones, etc.). I mean, I know the movies were expensive and compensation had to be made but when all the cars on the freeway chase are GM's, it makes you wonder. Did anyone get that vibe?
It was still a good movie though.
General Motors actually donated over two hundred cars for that freeway sequence...I'd say they deserve the product placement. The other stuff isn't as favorable, but at least it's not as bad as The Phantom Menace merchandise overload.
I can't think of a single thing I'd cut out of the first movie...but there's a whole lot that is extraneous in this one, the aforementioned fight with the Oracle's homeboy being a chief example. . I'll reserve final judgement until six months from now, but maybe they should have just made one three hour movie?
That foyer fight was incredibly beautiful, and very CG free. From that point on, the movie varies from pretty good to really great.
ok, Whatever to all the haters, aka "can i get u another walking stick?"
GENERAL SPOILER WARNING AND AN ORDER THAT U GO WATCH THIS THING RIGHT NOW
this movie was ekzellent. now to define ekzellent, i loved the Architect scene, the choice, the rebirths, the rain in the preview for the next one.
THE tribal dance/sex scene, that was dope. i mean, it's a love thing. i didn't mind that it took a SECOND to get started, really, once it does start if ur not a whiny baby it's really worth watching many times over. many of the shots are just outstanding, better than the first overall, i'm not gonna fall into that shit star wars trend of thinking that the original is always the best, again Whatever.. it rocked my ass off. i don't need u to agree with me.
back to the architect scene, "it's fascinating to watch ur reactions".. really now, how great was that, they're taking it to a whole new level.. the lines spoken by morpheus to try to please the philosophy 101 ppl who need to be TOLD concepts, they're irrelevant cos the shots and sequences SAY EVERYTHING u could imagine. the choreography of the fight scenes, yes the car chase included, is mind blowing.. so they used CGI, can u imagine anyone actually doing sum of those moves? it would look way more awkward and stupid to try to make it happen with strings. i bought it.
but that architect scene man,. and the escape, ahead of the fire.. Whatever if u don't love that as much as ur beloved original. good luck with retirement.
Quoteso they used CGI, can u imagine anyone actually doing sum of those moves?
Whether or not the moves could be achieved any other way is irrelevent. The point is that the whole "photo realistic" tripe is just that; tripe. I doubt it will take away from the film too much. But bad CGI, even if is revolutionary bad CGI, is still bad CGI.
Okay. I saw it, and it's wonderful.
In all it's oddly-paced, overly-philosophical glory. Yes, some arguably unnecessary fighting and CGI... but we are far from the absolute silliness that is Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. And if you aren't completely blown away by the Highway Scene... something's wrong.
Anyone who can honestly say they enjoy the first one more, they must not have realized where the brothers where going with this. The Anime influences are even more so this time. Right down to some really kick-ass mecha. It's exactly what I was expecting, in a good way.
All the bars are raised, including the one for cryptic, obscure dialogue and explainations. I think it works, just like it did in the first film. Lots of new characters, lots of new ideas... the Dance/Love Sequence was awesome. Weaving... his Agent Smith is still beyond perfect... geez.
The only part that was truly lacking, as already mentioned, was the introduction. It just seriously drags on. Like, she's doing this because...?
I'm glad I'm not hung up on the CGI like everyone else seems to be. I enjoyed it. But hey, if it takes you out of the movie, it takes you out of the movie. They should have done a better job, for the sake of the viewers who were completely turned off. It was SO close to really being photo-realistic. They just needed to tweak the animation for another few months, and they would've had it. It wouldn't stick out like it does. Oh well.
Are we still doing SPOILERS here?
Now that the movie's soaked in, I'm looking forward to seeing again... I really didn't like the first twenty minutes or so... basically most of the shit in Zion was a little boring... Inside the Matrix we get all the cool shots and fight sequences...
I liked the agent Smith fight (dogpile or whatever they call it), but I can understand people who are uptight about letting go for that sort of thing...
My wife pointed out that they should have saved it for later because the audience wasn't into the movie enough to let go for that scene... by the time we get to the car chase (which was just... fucking... awesome), we can accept a little Cheese in our CG, because it's a part of the look.
Edit:forgot about this:
Quote from: MacGuffinit seemed like some scenes served none (the fight between Neo and The Oracle's protector, for example, felt like "here's a good place to put a fight"). I don't know if these scenes will be relevant to "Revolutions"
It seems like I saw this guy in the teaser for Revolutions, so maybe it was just an introduction for a character that will be more prominent in the next film.
The Matrix Reloaded Breaks Preview Record!
The dinos, webcrawlers and jedis will all be breaking a sweat when they hear the Wednesday-night preview box office figures for The Matrix Reloaded. To put it simply, the sequel smashed anything that has come before it.
Variety says the highly-anticipated sequel bowed to record grosses in late Wednesday showtimes prior to its formal opening Thursday, and first-day matinees were ringing up what executives called unprecedented numbers despite the film's R rating.
"It's become an event. The numbers I'm looking (at) on an hourly basis -- nobody has seen anything like it before," Warners distribution president Dan Fellman said. "The film is really a cultural phenomenon."
Warner Bros. won't formally report separate figures for its Wednesday night box office but instead will add those grosses into its Thursday totals, as usual.
The original Jurassic Park earned $3.1 million in first-night box office, and no film has matched that 1993 opening until now. It's believed "Reloaded" earned well more than $10 million from Wednesday night grosses alone!
The last big film to bow on a Thursday was last May's Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones, which grossed $30.1 million over its first day, including night-before totals. "Clones" then dipped about 19% in its Friday grosses and went on to tally $80 million Friday through Sunday for a four-day haul of $110.1 million.
The weekend box office for "Reloaded" may be so strong that it can even surpass the Friday-Sunday opening crown from current box office champ Spider-Man in its first three days. It's possible "Reloaded" will do so much business prior to Friday that besting Sony film's historic three-day weekend performance of $114.8 million will prove just beyond reach, however.
does anyone know where i can find the revolutions trailer on the net? I heard about before i went, but i didn't stay because the theatres turned on the lights as all the stupid people left the theatre. So i figured there wasn't one.
Quote from: russiasushadoes anyone know where i can find the revolutions trailer on the net?
"Revolutions" trailer from the video game "Enter The Matrix." Seems to have more/different footage than the one after "Reloaded":
http://home.accglobal.net/~707727/video/matrix3.mpeg
Quote from: MacGuffin"Revolutions" trailer from the video game "Enter The Matrix." Seems to have more/different footage than the one after "Reloaded":
http://home.accglobal.net/~707727/video/matrix3.mpeg
cheers bro.
"it's nice to hav sumthin to look forward to".
I saw this movie and hated it. This is an overblown movie on so many scales. For one, the series has decided it will not act for the middle ground, but only the cultists already intrigued by the idea of philosophy as presented in the series. Thing is, I never could take it serious that someone would be standing around and talking all the drama while trying to make up for it through various fighting scenes utilizing every single possible way to kick, punch or shoot someone. The drama in this movie is utter bullshit. Nothing is shown, and everything is talked. The speaking of philosophy in this manner is out of context anyways when all the film really consists of in appeal is the larger than life fighting. Its a porn trying to be more serious than just a drama. The results are laughable and embarassing at the same. I admired the first Matrix a lot because it never got too much into this theory of filmmaking, and still operated as a very good action movie with story as other action movies. That's all gone here and the movie is an endless waste of how much someone can show in one film of this world that to the people who are not cultists and enthusiasts, is completely boring. Unlike the first movie, it never really can condense itself to bringing a situation out and following that to better relay its ideas. This movie could have been under 90 minutes even if done well.
Then there is the action and the waste of that. First off, it is handled badly. Instead of realizing that a murder scene or action scene is pretty much determined in success 90% by how it is introduced and built up and only 10% of what is actually shown, the action scenes come up all over the place. Only at the end, when I felt a focus for a story, did I feel the action, but even then I had complaints because the movie always extended the action scenes more than they had to. They would go on for so long that the effects of a person getting beat up or a car being destroyed simply started to dissappear. The movie was never able to variatize much on the action and seemed to rely on doing the same things over and over again. Instead of making these scenes amazing, they just made them feel like normal instances for the story. And also, the idea of having so many Smith's fighting Neo at once not only was bad because it just operated on the more is better level, but it also went to discredit a lot of the fighting in the first one which consisted on one on one fighting that seems to be thrown off in this movie as minor league stuff only. The movie should have tried to search for new ways of showing an action that would seem to begin out of the new story, instead of just an idea to making the action scenes themselves seem bigger than life. On the whole, the first Matrix built up what movies can do and the new one did little in bringing anything new to that style.
This movie did something postive for me though, and that was come to terms in really liking the first one. Expectations for the third are gone but I'm still seeing it. The trailer for the third felt exactly like the one for the second with variations in how the actors are shot and now Neo will fight Mr. Smith in the rain and likely (even if the trailer did not show it) will fight them all again. But of course, you know the significance of rain, it brings drama. *golf clap*
~rougerum
GT, even though I liked Reloaded, I agree with pretty much everything you had to say there.
im with pubes. this fuckin thing rocked. especially the architect, way out of left field. im seeing it again tonight. it fuckin rocks. i dont have to say anymore, reread p's thing.
i agree with p as well. i want to see the first one again now, maybe ill appreciate it a bit more
The thing I love most about the movie is what's happening now. Love it or hate it, a serious reaction has been provoked. Everyone has their own interpretations, theories, opinions-- good and bad. Hats off to the Wachowskis for making something that's more than a 2 hour escape that is instantly forgot on the way to the car.
For the real frightening talk, see the AICN message board (what is it with everything being equated to orgasms/ejaculation over there?) or CHUD. The posters are rabid. Things have thankfully remained calm here... for now.
***SPOILER***
Everyone I've told this too have said I'm nuts, but I have a theory about "The Matrix Revolutions". I think that the Zion 'reality'(I mean where the city is, supposedly the real world) is actually a Matrix within the Matrix. And it was created for that 1% of the population that don't accept the first matrix(as was explaned by that guy with the beard, the architect). That would explain how Neo was able to give off that EMP shockwave. Plus, it kinda explains why the decided to have him in a coma at the end. How convenient, so he can't tell anyone until the next film.
Quote from: Recce***SPOILER***
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Everyone I've told this too have said I'm nuts, but I have a theory about "The Matrix Revolutions". I think that the Zion 'reality'(I mean where the city is, supposedly the real world) is actually a Matrix within the Matrix. And it was created for that 1% of the population that don't accept the first matrix(as was explaned by that guy with the beard, the architect). That would explain how Neo was able to give off that EMP shockwave. Plus, it kinda explains why the decided to have him in a coma at the end. How convenient, so he can't tell anyone until the next film.
SPOILERS ALSO:
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I think that's a bit too much, but it had crossed my mind even back in part 1. I think the power Neo had was because he is part of Agent Smith and Agent Smith is part of him now. But I might be wrong, we'll just have to wait a whole 6 months to see
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Yeah, but even though Neo and smith are combined in a way, he wouldnt have powers. Agent smith is a program. He's nothing outside the matrix.
SPOILER
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yes, but if Neo were connected to the machines ("I can feel them") in the real world because of his Agent Smith connection, then I could see that happening
***Spoiler***
It jsut threw me off is all. In both films, they seem to have been bathing the film in logic. So, no matter what crazy stuff happened in the matrix, you'd accept it. And, despite the obvious sci-fi stuff, the 'real' world was realistic. But now this happens, which shouldnt be possible. Unless...
Recce, I see what you are saying and it makes sense.
SPOILERZZZZZZZ*****
Recce... I thought of that posibility briefly, but it's too easy... too simple... too "oh, I guess it was a dream inside a dream" Nightmare on Elm Street the Series-y
I'm going with the idea that Neo is a part of the Matrix now... he not only has the ability to see the code inside, but affect whatever's controlling the machines outside.... and Agent Smith is obviously a rogue agent now... he's no longer the program he was.... he's a virus himself.
*general spoilers*
just saw it.... :-D :!: :!: :!:
yes, the criticism against it is well-founded, but the overall specialness of it all pretty much outweighs everything. it's a joy to watch (mindblowing? yes!) and it's got that thing about it that the original did. you can watch it an endless number of times and continue to discover new things. i think. and it's left me with the hugest want to know: WHAT THE FOCK ARE WE GOING TO DO NOW? (along with the standard "what the fock?" in general)
in terms of comparing it to the first, i like to think of it this way:
the first Matrix was designed to be perfect. it was wonderful and everyone who saw it was happy. the second Matrix, however, was built with some flaws and lots of people didn't like it, but those who embraced it and lived it to the fullest saw its beauty.
and ima def see it again. possibly thrice...
and i want to talk to you guys about it, but i'm tired too. so i'll get in on the debate tommorow...
Ok. So I saw it. The action scenes were fucking mindblowing. And I still smile when I think about trinity on that motorcycle. I do think, though, that the first is much much better. The first film concentrated on the struggle in Neo's mind about what is real and what is not. It focused on him learning, and him growing to see his world for what it is. This process of learning is what made the film so good. There was always something new to see. But now, since he's comfortable with his surroundings, he can do anything. It seemed that there was nothing new to be learned, but then again, that architect scene. But on a first viewing I really wasn't able to catch all of it (call me an idiot...)
The first film benefitted on that, but since there was nothing about growth in this one, there was little story. It focused alot more on action scenes that it needed to to make a movie that would have kept me completely interested. However, I'm not saying that the movie was bad. I really enjoyed it and I thought the $^!TINY SPOILER$^! "to be concluded" thing at the end was just gorgeous hehe.
But I'm now really looking forward to Revolutions
even though the trailer sucked.
Does everyone else suddenly care a lot less about the Superman movie? We don't need it, Neo is Superman.
"What would happen if you melted? You know, you never really hear this talked about much, but spontaneous combustion? It exists!...[people] burn from within...sometimes they'll be in a wooden chair and the chair won't burn, but there'll be nothing left of the person. Except sometimes his teeth. Or the heart. No one speaks about this, but its for real."
- keanu reeves
as funny as that is, thanks to imdb sphinx learned that he's being going through a really rough time in the past while. during christmas of 1999, the baby he was expecting to have with his girlfriend was stillborn, and then two years later, his girlfriend was killed in a car crash; she was thrown right through the windshield.
:yabbse-undecided:
...not to mention the whole spine fusing-saga...does anyone know how that ended? in Revisited he talked about his spine not fusing at some point in the production and it had to because he was going to become paralized if it didn't, but they never mentioned it again. i'm guessing it turned out fine...
This movie was fucking awesome. I don't care about the naysayers. I'm just pissed off i didn't know there was a trailer at the end. how did everybody else know about this? IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!
Also, maybe it was just the seat i was sitting in, but i really thought the cgi looked beautiful. I don't remember being able to tell what was real or what was fake (most of the time). The bullet time masked the computery effect.
Quote from: bonanzatazI'm just pissed off i didn't know there was a trailer at the end. how did everybody else know about this? IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!
Ninth post down:
http://xixax.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=26273#26273
Saw it last night. It was pretty cool, but nothing spectacular. It was much better then the first one (which really sucked).
* spoilers * I liked the part where the french dude programed that cake to make that chick have an orgasm. funny shit :-D Thought the ending was a little dissapointing. It's like they forgot that it was a movie, rather a tv series that would be concluded the following week. I don't care if the prt3 is coming out later this year, a film should always have an ending, like LOTR.
Okay, I saw it again. I don't know if it has been mentioned before in this thread but...
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What if Neo didn't stop the sentinels? It could have been the other ship (the Hammer?) and Neo was just reaching out his hand to "feel" his connection to the sentinels or I don't know nevermind
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Don't think so, cauyse everyone was like, what the hell was that. What happened. If it was the ship, they would know it. Plus, he wouldn't be in a coma. The EMP shockwavre thing only affects mechanical things, doesnt it?
i'm sorry, but the matrix reloaded was embarasingly stupid, the only people who liked it were my friends who only can sit through movies with minimal diolage and alot of pointless action. i wanted to pwek my head off- ugh.
-chad
Quote from: abbey roadonly people who liked it were my friends who only can sit through movies with minimal diolage
-chad
I did ask myself a few times during the movie. "When was the last time someone spoke?" Reeves barely had to act. Oh well. Still...I enjoyed it.
hey whats ur quote from?.. "...i eat babies", thats hilarious.
-chad
Quote from: abbey roadhey whats ur quote from?.. "...i eat babies", thats hilarious.
-chad
I had an algebra teacher. He hated calculators with a passion, and so did the class (me included :-D ) But anyway...He went to this math conference and he had to sit next to this one guy. The guy was a calculator NUT! He had briefcases full of them and said things to the teacher (His name was Mr. Graf) like "The student is now just a tool of the calculator" and such. Well when Mr. Graf got fed up with this he said...
"That's very interesting..." Then he made his eyes reaaall wide (think psychotic charles manson) and finished the sentece with "...I eat babies!"
And that's the story
Quote from: Pedro the WombatI had an algebra teacher. He hated calculators with a passion, and so did the class (me included :-D ) But anyway...He went to this math conference and he had to sit next to this one guy. The guy was a calculator NUT! He had briefcases full of them and said things to the teacher (His name was Mr. Graf) like "The student is now just a tool of the calculator" and such. Well when Mr. Graf got fed up with this he said...
"That's very interesting..." Then he made his eyes reaaall wide (think psychotic charles manson) and finished the sentece with "...I eat babies!"
And that's the story
hahaha, i love it.
just saw the film---i found this to be fantastic and highly enjoyable. many secrets and questions i am discussing with P right now
i am completely immersed in the matrix at this point and do not view it as a film
Quote from: sphinxi am completely immersed in the matrix at this point and do not view it as a film
same here...
and mac, i purposely avoided that thread to stay faaaaar away from spoilers. knowing nothing about the film made it that much more amazing.
Quote from: Recce***SPOILER***
I think that the Zion 'reality'(I mean where the city is, supposedly the real world) is actually a Matrix within the Matrix. And it was created for that 1% of the population that don't accept the first matrix(as was explaned by that guy with the beard, the architect).
***MORE SPOILERS, THRU ENTIRE POST*** (but who HASN'T seen this thing yet?)
I believe this is EXACTLY what the Architect was telling Neo. It's just a game, looping over and over.
How did Agent Smith's copy escape the Matrix near the beginning of the movie. He's just a program. How could he manage to have any sort of existence in the "real world"? Has he actually occupied the brain of that Bane character? Maybe, but my bets are on the possibility that Zion is really just part of the Matrix.
And, really, how would Neo "feel" the sentinals. I don't buy that the Matrix is a part of him now. Again, how would that give him power outside of the Matrix. If some of the program has joined with his brain, so what?
Geez... I dunno. Whatever happens, I'm going to need to change my underpants after I see
Revolutions. :-D
If they have yet to escape the Matrix, I wonder what the REAL real world will be like.
Also, I think once we all know how this turns out, the technical, psuedo-philosophical gibberish in
Reloaded will make a lot more sense. Even if it doesn't, I still get a kick out of watching the characters recite those weird lines so effortlessly. Weeeeeee...
lotsa spoilers
sphinx thinks that neo's connection to the sentinels is the same connection as his mysterious one to agent smith that he speaks of just before they fight.
i suspected that zion might be another matrix, but i can't see a way for the storytellers to justify this without pissing everybody off, what with all the questions posed in this film, it would just seem like a bit of a cheat if everybody said that nothing was ever real.
i was very surprised to see that everybody in zion died, and there are essentially like 20 free humans left or something? it certainly closes some doors for the possibilities of the next movie
zion was not destroyed. A bunch of ships trying to counter attack the sentinals were destroyed.
SPOILERS
I would buy that the real world that they are in at the end of the movie is a part of the matrix... maybe a clone of the real world... but just at the end... not that it's been like that the whole time. Neo says something like: "something's different, I can feel them now" suggesting that it wasn't like that before.
What about this? What if Neo is halfway between both worlds? He only partially left the Matrix, which might explain the "coma" he's in.
SPOILERS FOO
I really really really don't want the Matrix-within-a-Matrix. RK, your idea of just at that end part is interesting...anything but "it's been a Matrix within a Matrix the whole time"
K END FOO
also: anybody know what that structure made of code was at the beginning of the movie when the camera drops down into the code after going through the letters?
The clock for the security guards to clock out of, wasn't it?
Quote from: sphinxalso: anybody know what that structure made of code was at the beginning of the movie when the camera drops down into the code after going through the letters?
Now that you mention it, it looked like one of the huge machines that closed the gates to Zion. Another idea that Zion is part of the Matrix?
Look what I found:
Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
A: I am the architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human. Erego some of my answers you will understand and some you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
N: Why am I here?
A: Your life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalenced equation inherant to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. Whle it remains a burden assiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
N: You haven't answered my question.
A: Quite right. Interesting... That was quicker than the others.
(Neos in the background) "Others? What others?" etc.
A: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version.
N: If what you say is true then there are only two possible explanations. Either no one told me, or no one knows.
A: Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering the anomoly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most mundane, simplistic equations.
N: (Neos in the background) Angrily shout, profanities, etc.
N: Choice. The problem is choice.
---Cut to Trinity fighting Agent
A: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art. Flawless, sublime. A triumph equalled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherant in every human being. Thus I redesigned it. Based on your history. To more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was, again, frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. thus the answer was stumbled upon by another. An intuitive program, intitially created to invesitgate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the Matrix, she, would undoubtedly be its mother.
N: The Oracle.
A: Please. As I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly ninety-nine percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice on the unconscious level. While this answer functioned it was obviously fundamentally flawed. Thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomoly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Erego, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
N: This is about Zion.
A: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. It's evewry living inhabitant terminated, it's entire existence eradicated.
N: Bullsh**.
A: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
---Cut to Trinity fighting Agent
A: the function of The One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the Matrix 23 individuals: 16 female, 7 male to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this p[rocess will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in th extinction of the entire human race.
N: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.
A: there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether or not you ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. I it is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of The One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis a vis, love.
N: Trinity.
A: Apropos. She entered the Matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
N: No.
A: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth where the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomoly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back into the Matrix to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion; designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth: she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
(Neo walks towards right door)
A: Hope; it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.
N: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.
A: We won't.
I was very pleased with the Matrix Reloaded. Despite the plot bashing, I found it to be quite nice for what it had to work with. We have a Star Wars like relationship developing between our action heroes, we learn of the Oracle, tension is on in the city, multiple versions of the system and "renegade" programs. We are left with doubt, suspense and the plot does develop. Sure, action is the #1 ticket here, which more than compensates for any and everything. But honestly, is the plot really that bad?
A: Quite right. Interesting... That was quicker than the others.
(Neos in the background) "Others? What others?" etc.
A: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from one integral anomoly to the emergence of the next in which case this is the sixth version.
rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it.
It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of The One.
666.
the matrix reloaded... wow what a show. i've seen it twice so far and trust me if you left the theator confussed the first time you wont the second. after the second time things kinda fall into place. i have to admit some of the fight seens were a bit fake, but still awesome. alot of people i know, including myself, thought the end was really pointless... well take that back because it does have a point (neo isnt supposta control things in the real world) but the writters could have come up with something a little more creative. isn't that why theyre getting payed so much? well thats pretty much it kids.. o yeah one more thing. did any one else find the sex seen a little.. hilarious? :vamp:
SPLOIOELR
Quote from: LittleNickyalot of people i know, including myself, thought the end was really pointless... well take that back because it does have a point (neo isnt supposta control things in the real world) but the writters could have come up with something a little more creative. isn't that why theyre getting payed so much? well thats pretty much it kids.. o yeah one more thing. did any one else find the sex seen a little.. hilarious? :vamp:
You don't know why he did that yet, so you can't possibly judge the writers' reasons.
And no. No.
EN
the sex scene was one of the best ive ever seen. the way the color is and the music and all the sweat and makeup and bodies moving, it accomplishes something most sex scenes dont even bother trying for; it physically makes you hot.
and its one of the most believable and emotional pieces of the movie for neo and trinity. theyre having sex, but more than that, theyre holding each other.
and as everyone knows, end-of-the-world sex is the best kind of sex there is.
:roll: ..spoilers...
while everything seems to keep coming closer and closer into focus in my mind, one thing i have yet to understand is why the Matrix would allow for Zion to keep rebuilding itself in the first place...
Did the sex scene remind anyone else of "Slave 4 U" by Britney Spears? :?
Quote from: picolas:roll: ..spoilers...
while everything seems to keep coming closer and closer into focus in my mind, one thing i have yet to understand is why the Matrix would allow for Zion to keep rebuilding itself in the first place...
"without purpose, what reason is there to exist?"
the machines only purpose was overtaking the humans, to build up a civilization only to take them over and destroy them, to "become more and more efficient what they do".
Quote from: DirkDid the sex scene remind anyone else of "Slave 4 U" by Britney Spears? :?
Yeah, good point! But that's the one Britney Spears song that I think is actually really good, so it's a good thing.
I liked the whole sequence, but it went on a little too long. But it was a good demonstration of humanity at it's least machine-like.
Did anybody find any "gaping plot holes" in this one?
Ahahah...nice Britney Spears analogy. :-D But honestly.... wasn't the sex scene a little... generic? I just don't know with those flashes to the feet ...
Quote from: LesterQuote from: picolas:roll: ..spoilers...
while everything seems to keep coming closer and closer into focus in my mind, one thing i have yet to understand is why the Matrix would allow for Zion to keep rebuilding itself in the first place...
"without purpose, what reason is there to exist?"
the machines only purpose was overtaking the humans, to build up a civilization only to take them over and destroy them, to "become more and more efficient what they do".
mm...not quite buying it. if they just destroyed Zion and left it that way, they'd win. they'd have the power supply, and nothing to stop them from using the world as their playground or whatever...and i'm not so sure about Sentinels needing a reason to exist...who're you quoting, there?
He's quoting the Architect who said that each time they attack Zion, they become more efficient at it. But I don't know about that giving them purpose either
maybe we'll know in Revolutions
this is how i understand it
zion is necessary because the 1% of the people who choose not to accept the matrix need somewhere to go. if they forced everyone to accept the matrix, then it wouldn't work. those anomalies form a zion, and the anomaly known as 'the one' has a piece of code in him that needs to return to the source, the architect refers to this as the 'prime program'. i believe the action of returning the prime program to the source is the reason for the one to exist. this is also the reason why the machines decide not to kill the 1% who don't accept, because they need them to deliver the one, who carries the prime program.
Okay, so the rebels are needed to bring the anomaly (Neo) to the computer mainframe. Makes sense to me
watch that 'understanding' be completly demolished in the next movie.
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Good to see the pics back, Sphinx.
I'm liking this theory more than the whole Matrix inside a Matrix.
It sounds to me that Neo is like a beta tester for each new version of the Matrix...
Though it seems that the Matrix inside a Matrix theory is supported by the part about giving the inhabitants choices... the choice in the members of Zion's case would be the red pill/blue pill decision.
Anyway, I hope it's more complicated.
Quote from: RegularKarateSPOILERS
I would buy that the real world that they are in at the end of the movie is a part of the matrix... maybe a clone of the real world... but just at the end... not that it's been like that the whole time. Neo says something like: "something's different, I can feel them now" suggesting that it wasn't like that before.
very cool idea
Quote from: sphinxthis is how i understand it
zion is necessary because the 1% of the people who choose not to accept the matrix need somewhere to go. if they forced everyone to accept the matrix, then it wouldn't work. those anomalies form a zion, and the anomaly known as 'the one' has a piece of code in him that needs to return to the source, the architect refers to this as the 'prime program'. i believe the action of returning the prime program to the source is the reason for the one to exist. this is also the reason why the machines decide not to kill the 1% who don't accept, because they need them to deliver the one, who carries the prime program.
yeah. i got that Neo's existence is only to deliver the "prime program" to the "source," but why? my theory is starting to become that The Matrix needs to be reset every so often because if it isn't, the whole war against the machines business will repeat itself inside the Matrix...or maybe it just needs an upgrade...hmm...so Zion's there because the One can only realize itself when presented with the other reality...hoo boy...
Quote from: MacGuffinLook what I found
Quote from: sphinxpicture
Quote from: godardianThank you, sirs. You have made my day.
Quote from: budgiewelcome.
Quote from: _|P|_thanksabunch.
Quote from: MacGuffinThe tribal dance/love scene dragged on and on and on.
That was the most pointless 5 minutes in recent movie memory. I mean, they could have shown them kissing a little then go to the next scene and we would have gotten the point.
I actually started laughing outloud at how long and uninteresting this was.
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WOOHOO!!
:-D :onfire: 8)
OH baby, I finally saw this today. Where to begin?
BADASS.
I am completely baffled as to why it has gotten some negative reactions. Uhhh, r u sure u saw the right movie? Cos I was bouncing up and down in my seat the entire time- beginnin to end eating it up with a spoon. The beginning a little slow? Please. I loved that tribal dance part, shit was so dope I considered doing my own little tribal dance right in the aisle but opted not to. Oh man, Zion- I had no idea it was going to look like that.
As for the CGI debate, it looked pretty flawless to me. Come on, anyone who thinks some of those shots won't go down in cinema history is wee-todd-it. Did you see that shit on the highway? Neo vs. all the agents?
I gotta take a breather and get my thoughts together. My mind is running a mile-a-minute right now. I do have a couple questions/thoughts and would like to talk about some stuff, preferably with p, sphinx and mac and other people who really loved it.
Honestly though, I couldn't help feeling a little jealous throughout the whole thing. in saying that i mean that watching something like this really really makes you want to make movies. How cool would it be to have your name pop up at the end of the credits after a movie like that?!?!
Quote from: MacGuffinNow that you mention it, it looked like one of the huge machines that closed the gates to Zion.
upon second viewing of the film i realized that it was simpy the inner workings of the clock, like tremolosloth said
Quote from: cbrad4deating it up with a spoon.
"There is no spoon."
Quote from: jonas
That was the most pointless 5 minutes in recent movie memory. I mean, they could have shown them kissing a little then go to the next scene and we would have gotten the point.
I actually started laughing outloud at how long and uninteresting this was.
nah dude. that scene was great and completely necessary. we gots da see the love between the two to make the ending part more believable. if they'd short changed the love scenes, the movie, in particular neo's choices, kinda fall flat.
Quote from: MacGuffinThe Twins were a great addition.
What was the purpose of those albino reggae ghost twins? Were they supposed to scare me? They didn't. They seem kinda omnipotent....but also dumb.
Quote from: MeshWhat was the purpose of those albino reggae ghost twins? Were they supposed to scare me? They didn't. They seem kinda omnipotent....but also dumb.
They are ghosts. The two guys that were watching film and Persephone kills one with a silver bullet, they were werewolves. The Oracle says, "Every story you've heard about vampires, werewolves or aliens is the system assimilating some program that's doing something [it's] not supposed to be doing."
The whole concept of intelligent machines creating a program designed to delude humans into peaceful, sleepy, lifelong submission continues to dumbfound me.
If the machines are that friggin' smart, why don't they figure out an easier way to sedate humans? Apparently anaesthesia hadn't come too far by the time the AI machines took over....
Barring the above, why don't those super smart machines turn off The Matrix once in a while to clean out all the "rogue programs" (like ghosts and Agent Smith and whoever-the-fuck). I mean are the machines intelligent or are they not? Why can't they clean up the very program that IS their survival?
Also, every time I read that ultimatum the Architect gives Neo, it makes less and less sense. I'm gonna go see if I can be more specific, then edit this post....
Now this:
"There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion."
Someone explain what he means....do a good job, too....apparently, I'm dense.
The salvation of zion means neo will rebuild Zion by taking 20 some odd humans and starting over. This way they can restart the Matrix and the human race will survive. All of Neo's predecessors have chosen that route. Neo has gone the other way because he thought he could save Trinity. But the door that led back to Trinity will also kill the entire human race in 24 hours.
Hope it helped. I think thats right.
also he proved the Architect wrong because the Architect said eather door he chose Trinity would die.
I got the impression that every other one chose Trinity.
No, because Banky is correct. If they had chosen that door, there would not be a Zion left
Okay... I just reread that part... you're right, but the previous Neo's didn't have the option of Trinity, which further supports the idea that Trinity is this so called "mother of the Matrix" the architect is talking about.
Who said Trinity is the mother of the Matrix? Are you doing drugs again? It's the Oracle. The reason Architect says "PLEASE" after that is because the name Oracle is ridiculous to him since he knows the truth
tremolosloth is right
I dont think that any of the first 5 Neo's were in love. In fact the Architect says that none of them had love to influence thier descion. They were all just dedicated to the species therefore they all chose the door to lead to the rebuilding of Zion. Maybe Trinity is really THE ONE because she is the new factor that has given Neo the strength to do extraordinary things i.e. grab the rope attatched to the helicopter, fly fast as hell, reach inside somone and save their lives. She also saved his life at the end of the first one. It really makes you think. Maybe she is really the key factor.
Quote from: BankyEdwardstremolosloth is right
I dont think that any of the first 5 Neo's were in love. In fact the Architect says that none of them had love to influence thier descion. They were all just dedicated to the species therefore they all chose the door to lead to the rebuilding of Zion. Maybe Trinity is really THE ONE because she is the new factor that has given Neo the strength to do extraordinary things i.e. grab the rope attatched to the helicopter, fly fast as hell, reach inside somone and save their lives. She also saved his life at the end of the first one. It really makes you think. Maybe she is really the key factor.
Right... this is why I thought maybe they were going to switch it on us and try to say that Trinity was the person that the Architect was talking about.
But I guess Trem could be right that that's why he said "Please"... I just read it wrong (or maybe I didn't)
could be? 6 months we'll see
Man, I never even thought of it that way
"free your mind"
that would also mean that she fell in love with herself in the first movie
also note that when neo enters the matrix to see the oracle at the courtyard bench, he enters in chinatown, and it shows inserts of tables, on the tables are pictures and statues of jesus, and in the wide shot of neo walk away from it, there are framed pictures of jesus and other such jesus imagery
well i think we will all agree that Biblical refernce is all through both movies.
Quote from: BankyEdwardswell i think we will all agree that Biblical refernce is all through both movies.
i was just surprised that there was a more direct one in this movie
true
I would also like to throw in my two cents that i thought the first like 30 min of the movie were good. It developed character and gave some really good sequences. Stop complaing that it dragged on. The movie had enough action to make 3 action movies with. Without substance whats the point of action?
Talk about Jesus imagery! I mean, in the first one they're talking about how when Neo's mother gave birth to him on Tatooine, there was no father! that's just plagiarism, right there.
Quote from: bonanzatazTalk about Jesus imagery! I mean, in the first one they're talking about how when Neo's mother gave birth to him on Tatooine, there was no father! that's just plagiarism, right there.
:lol!:
another interesting possible bible connection: wouldn't the first perfect Matrix be kind of like the Garden of Eden? and the idea that the world wasn't real is kind of a parallel to consuming fruit from the tree of knowledge and becoming aware...maybe it's a bit of a stretch...
i don't really agree, considering it was man's fault that he was exiled from the garden, in the matrix's situation it was a natural response to something that seemed too perfect. automated reactions and human nature are different things...
While we're on the subject of the Oracle in the park scene... didn't anyone else notice the similarity between the candy she was eating and the infamous Red Pill? Hmmmmm... :roll:
Quote from: markums2ksimilarity between the candy she was eating and the infamous Red Pill? Hmmmmm... :roll:
Yeah, I thought that's why the architect was all "Puh-lease,
that pill popping junky?".
Quote from: Newtron
Yeah, I thought that's why the architect was all "Puh-lease, that pill popping junky?".
haha. no joke.
I'm still trying to figure out what the french dude is all about. not sure i understand who or what he is. guess he'll be back in revolutions and it will all make sense. (?)
Quote from: cbrad4dI'm still trying to figure out what the french dude is all about. not sure i understand who or what he is. guess he'll be back in revolutions and it will all make sense. (?)
This may help:
In the restaurant the Merovingian explains causality. He says Neo and his friends do not really understand why they are there, but are simply pawns of cause and effect. They say they know the reason: to search for the key maker; he tells them they are only following orders from the Oracle, orders they do not understand .
As an example of cause and effect, he sends a slice of chocolate cake over to a woman in the restaurant. The cake is actually a program, which he claims to have coded himself, and it has an effect on the woman's feelings and behavior after she eats it. In the green and black Matrix view, the camera drops down to show us her digital "legs", then reveals the effect of the cake as a bright "fireworks" type of graphic in the region of her crotch. She gets up and leaves the room. The sexual metaphor here suggests that we do not freely choose our sexual urges (or food cravings), but instead they follow from brain chemistry, and thus humans are not as free as they may believe.
We see this same theme of freedom versus fate in many places throughout the movie, such as when the Oracle tell Neo that he already made his choice but must learn to understand it
Macguffin are you a Matrix junkie?
I don't know what makes you say that. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to use my Samsung cell phone while simultaniously drinking a Powerade and Heineken while wearing my Blinde Design sunglasses and play with my McFarline action figures.
Powerade+Heineken sounds interesting
hahaha
Finally saw it last night. I had lowered my expectations so I was pleasantly surprised. However the love/rave scene was completely and wholly unnecessary. It took me out of the movie for a while (actually the first 20 minutes were rather dismal). I can see the point of the scene, but it would have been just the same if limited to a minute. Blah. Anyway, good philosophy throughout. Didn't think it was hard to understand at all. A bonus were the names and their references.
Merovingian = supposed decendants of Christ. In this case, probably called himself this because he thinks of himself as the most important program in the Matrix. From a holy binary bloodline, if you will. He craves power above all things. Hence he has possession of the Keymaker--the most important person in the Matrix.
Persephone = In Greek mythology she was Hades' kidnapped bride. After her kidnapping Demeter, her mother, struck a deal that he would get her half a year and then return her for the other half. The Greek's used this myth to explain the Spring and Summer seasons (her return to her mother, the Goddess of Agriculture) and the Fall and Winter seasons (her return to Hades and, due to her mother's saddness, the death of crops). Persephone in the myths would help anyone if it meant somehow bringing detriment to Hades.
Seraph = the guardian of the Oracle. Short for Seraphim, the first of the nine orders of angels in Medievel lore. In this case playing the part of the guardian angel.
So in the mythology of the Matrix, here's my list of beings and their archtypes:
Architect = God (creator of all that is)
Oracle = Satan (or Lucifer, the great deciever)
Neo = Jesus (the one who resurrects the program and Zion)
Merovingian = To a lesser extent Satan (he and his wife hold prisoner the most powerful person and are basically the Prince and Princess of the Matrix)
I've reaches my brain quota for today. Anyone have any other input on this?
Quote from: RaikusSeraph = the guardian of the Oracle. Short for Seraphim, the first of the nine orders of angels in Medievel lore. In this case playing the part of the guardian angel.
Must be why his Matrix code is gold.
Quote from: RaikusOracle = Satan (or Lucifer, the great deciever)
Gosh, that's almost scary. I don't see her as that at all, but I'd be creepy to have it turn out that way
Well I'll post my two cents even though pretty much everything has been said already. They knew they wanted to start with an action sequence but they didn't really have any need to so it was like they just stuck the end at the beginning to appease an audience's need for combat. Because I hadn't seen the original in a while I felt no emotion for the characters but we were just thrown into the story and expected to like them right away. Thus, the love/dance scene just seemed gratuitous. I don't remember the dialogue making me cringe as much in the original. Morpheus's speech was painful to listen too. Still, the action was good and entertaining. I loved the idea of the scene shown in Macguffin's avatar as well. I think I'm always a sucker for stock footage incorporation in narrative films.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: cbrad4dI'm still trying to figure out what the french dude is all about. not sure i understand who or what he is. guess he'll be back in revolutions and it will all make sense. (?)
This may help:
In the restaurant the Merovingian explains causality. He says Neo and his friends do not really understand why they are there, but are simply pawns of cause and effect. They say they know the reason: to search for the key maker; he tells them they are only following orders from the Oracle, orders they do not understand .
As an example of cause and effect, he sends a slice of chocolate cake over to a woman in the restaurant. The cake is actually a program, which he claims to have coded himself, and it has an effect on the woman's feelings and behavior after she eats it. In the green and black Matrix view, the camera drops down to show us her digital "legs", then reveals the effect of the cake as a bright "fireworks" type of graphic in the region of her crotch. She gets up and leaves the room. The sexual metaphor here suggests that we do not freely choose our sexual urges (or food cravings), but instead they follow from brain chemistry, and thus humans are not as free as they may believe.
We see this same theme of freedom versus fate in many places throughout the movie, such as when the Oracle tell Neo that he already made his choice but must learn to understand it
MacGuffin, you do this a lot.
Someone asks a question like cbrad's above and you go into a long-winded plot synopsis. He saw the movie. He knows what the Malevoliovigninja did; he's asking who that character was, what his point was for being around, you know, bigger questions than just "What did that dude do?"
Quote from: MeshMacGuffin, you do this a lot.
Well, excuuuuuuuuse me for trying to help.
Like the Oracle said, Merovingian is another program like her from an older Matrix
Macguffin i defiantly appreciate the fact that you give well detailed answer. While they may not be answering the question directly, they are very interesting and take good effort.
i died during this shot:
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and here's the famous finger
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Quote from: sphinxi died during this shot:
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...yep. my body turned and jarred itself into the physical manifestation of "
WHGYEES>>"
i'm so happy they didn't give that shot away anywhere. it's the "da money" of money shots...
Quote from: Mesh
MacGuffin, you do this a lot.
Someone asks a question like cbrad's above and you go into a long-winded plot synopsis. He saw the movie. He knows what the Malevoliovigninja did; he's asking who that character was, what his point was for being around, you know, bigger questions than just "What did that dude do?"
oh no no. mac's response, as always, is much appreciated and well-informed.
Is it just me or was Monica Belluci's outfit one of the sexiest outfits ever on screen. Maybe it was the whole accent that did me in but it looked like she was poured into that dress. WOW
I appreciate the support from those who appreciate my help. And as a reward, another 'long-winded' post:
Merovingian - Ah-ha, here he is at last - Neo - the One himself, right? And the legendary Morpheus... And Trinity of course, si belle qu'elle me fait souffrir... (french for "so beautiful, that she makes me suffer) I have heard so much, you honor me... Please, join us, this is my wife, Persephone... Something to eat? Drink? Hmm...
Neo - No, thank you...
Merovingian - Yes, of course, who has time? Who has time? But then if we do not have a take time (?), how can we have a half time? (he starts smelling his wine) Château Haut-Brion 1959, magnificent wine, I love french wine, like I love the french language... I have sampled every language -- french is my favorite -- fantastic language, especially to curse with... Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère... You see, it's like wiping your *** with silk, I love it!
Morpheus - You know why we are here.
Merovingian - Hmm... I am a trafficker of information, I know everything I can... The question is, do you know why you are here?
Morpheus - We are looking for the Keymaker.
Merovingian - Oh yes, it is true... The Keymaker, of course... But this is not a reason, this is not a why... The Keymaker himself's very nature is means, it is not an end, and so, to look for him is to be looking for a means to... do... what?
Neo - You know the answer to that question.
Merovingian - But do you? You think you do but you do not... You are here because you were sent here, you were told to come here and you obeyed... Hahah, it is of course the way of all things... You see, there is only one constant, one universality's the only real toss (?): causality. Action... Reaction. Cause... and effect.
Morpheus - Everything begins with choice.
Merovingian - No. Wrong. Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without... Look there, at that woman... My god, just look at that... Effecting everyone around her, so obvious, so bourgeoise, so boring... But wait... Watch, you see, I have sent her a dessert, a very special dessert... I wrote it myself. It starts so simply, each line is a program creating a new effect, just like... poetry. First, a rush... Heat... Her heart flutters... You can see it, Neo, yes? She does not understand why, is it the wine? No. What is it then, what is the reason? And soon it does not matter, soon the why and the reason are gone, and all that matters is the feeling itself... THIS is the nature of the universe. We struggle against it, we fight to deny it, but this is of course pretends, it is a lie... Beneath our poised appearance, the truth is we are completely out of control. Causality. There is no escape from it, we are forever slaves to it. Our only hope, our only peace is to understand it, to understand why, WHY is what separates us from them, you from me... Why is (can't understand a few words there), without it you are powerless... And this is how you come to me, without why, without power... And those are link in the chain... But fear not, since I have seen how good you are at following orders, I will tell you what to do next... Run back, and give the fortuneteller this message: her time is almost up. Now I have some business to do, I will say adieu and goodbye...
Neo - This isn't over.
Merovingian - Oh yes it is... The Keymaker is mine and I see no reason why I should give him up... No reason at all.
Persephone - Where are you going?
Merovingian - Please ma chérie, I've told you, we are all victims of causality... I drink too much wine, I must take a piss... Cause and effect. Au revoir.
Use this link (http://www.bullettime.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120) and click on the Making Of Matrix Reloaded. It's a 25 minute doc about all aspects of the production. Large file, but so worth it.
I think the movie kicked ass. The seen with all the Agent Smiths was a little too digital for me. I guess there was no way around that one. The highway seen was incredible though. I'll have to be honest, I think I liked the 1st one better, because there was more one a story line and it had some action. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the hell out of Reloaded, but it's hard to beat the 1st one.
I think I figured out what made parts of the Burly Brawl look so fake. People have been saying "the faces, the faces" but I really thing it was the clothes. Neo's jacket specifically and, to a lesser extint the Smith's jackets. I think they paid too much attention to digitally grafting the faces on and not enough on the clothes' physics.
Quote from: RaikusI think I figured out what made parts of the Burly Brawl look so fake. People have been saying "the faces, the faces" but I really thing it was the clothes. Neo's jacket specifically and, to a lesser extint the Smith's jackets. I think they paid too much attention to digitally grafting the faces on and not enough on the clothes' physics.
Yeah... I didn't think there was any concern with the faces... I always thought it was the overall mass of the people, which is covered in clothes which are drawn with little detail... so yeah... it's the clothes.
Quote from: RaikusI think I figured out what made parts of the Burly Brawl look so fake. People have been saying "the faces, the faces" but I really thing it was the clothes. Neo's jacket specifically and, to a lesser extint the Smith's jackets. I think they paid too much attention to digitally grafting the faces on and not enough on the clothes' physics.
A. The scene looked only slightly better than a video game. I kept thinking "These graphics suck!"
B. It was such a pointless fight. Neo can fly, people, he can fucking FLY at, like, 4000 mph! What's he doing dicking around fighting a squadron of self-replicating bad guys?
C. I was so reminded of The Phantom Menace's Pod Race Sequence. Both were relatively entertaining to watch, but both were just so obviously scenes from an upcoming video game.....The Neo/Smiths fight totally took me out of the film fantasy and what meager plot there was at that point....
Quote from: Mesh
A. The scene looked only slightly better than a video game. I kept thinking "These graphics suck!"
Christ man, what kind of video games are you playing?
I think the clothes just looked a little too smooth to be real, but that's it
Quote from: tremolosloth
A. Christ man, what kind of video games are you playing?
B. I think the clothes just looked a little too smooth to be real, but that's it
A. 10 minutes a week at Best Buy, tops.
B. Does anyone still wonder why Neo and Smith are always dressed in featureless black outfits?
Look dammit ok so they did not look perfect but we can all agree that they looked fucking good. And fuck the guy who said they are just slightly better than video games. Seriously full of shit on that one. Why does Neo not fly away? He knows he will have to face Smith eventually. What good does it do to run? He cant die. Why not fight? At the core Matrix is a kung fu movie. Just like a musical at certain points you just need to sing and dance.
Quote from: MeshB. It was such a pointless fight. Neo can fly, people, he can fucking FLY at, like, 4000 mph! What's he doing dicking around fighting a squadron of self-replicating bad guys?
cause he's gotta prove it to himself and Smith everyone else that hes The One and not afraid and can kick 100 asses at once. he only flies away when he knows he cant win. 'sides, how lame would the movie have been if he just flew away from every problem 'cause he could? hes NEO, for fucks sake.
and everyone bitchin about the digital effects - its not a perfect artform yet, theyve still got a ways to go, its not gonna look photo-real every time. this movie has the best digital effects of any movie to date regardless, so whats with all the nitpicking? just let it flow over you, believe its happening and itll look a lot more real.
and this:
FRENCH DUDE: Run back, and give the fortuneteller this message: her time is almost up. Now I have some business to do, I will say adieu and goodbye...
the oracle must be aiding the humans in some way, perhaps this is how neo was able to save trinty and maybe even why he was able to stop the sentinel. if she was the "mother" of the matrix and understood human nature, she mustve grown some sort of fondness for them, same as smith developed an anger towards them. like the last five times she went along with it and did what she was sposed to, but she just cant take it anymore and is now going against the architect. it is kind of agent smith in reverse, no? his rage against humanity caused him to break orders and go rogue.
oh and:
monica bellucci is the hottest goddamn woman on the planet. i bought her character as being a program and not human coz, jesus, how could someone as hot as her actually exist?
but what was up with her scene, where she makes out with neo? it HAS to mean something. "its just a kiss". but was it? doesnt it seem wierd, that scene? its definitely a feeling like something important is being set up.
A. Slightly better than a video game is a tad extreme and a lot untrue.
B. Did you watch the rest of the movie? Did you see Neo fly? He has a pretty good amount of "warm up" time where he has to concentrate or do whatever cool stuff that makes the ground ripple. That and the thing about him having to fight him sooner or later anyway.
C. The stand off is obviously quite significant... just because we don't fully understand the situation between the two doesn't mean it wasn't important to the plot.
Quote from: RegularKarateA. Slightly better than a video game is a tad extreme and a lot untrue.
B. Did you watch the rest of the movie? Did you see Neo fly? He has a pretty good amount of "warm up" time where he has to concentrate or do whatever cool stuff that makes the ground ripple. That and the thing about him having to fight him sooner or later anyway.
C. The stand off is obviously quite significant... just because we don't fully understand the situation between the two doesn't mean it wasn't important to the plot.
A. Whatever. I nitpick The Matrix, you nitpick me. In short: a scene that makes me feel like I'm watching someone else play a video game is not a good scene.
B. "...a pretty good amount of "warm up" time where he has to concentrate or do whatever cool stuff that makes the ground ripple..." That in and of itself is utter nonsense. What? He has to really, really, really believe the Matrix is fake in order to fly? C'mon. Just fly, Chosen One. Don't give me this "I gotta prepare myself for flight" baloney....Further: Did Neo even vanquish a single Smith? Not that I could see. He just knocked 'em all down, and they got right back up. At least in Bruce Lee movies, one punch from Bruce puts the baddie down for the count. That, for contrast, is real ass kicking.
C. Again, whatever. We'll see how "obviously significant" it is in 6 months. If Revolutions answers all the questions it poses, it'll be a friggin' movie miracle....
First off...
Quote from: MerovingianI have sampled every language -- french is my favorite -- fantastic language, especially to curse with... Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperies de connards d'enculés de ta mère... You see, it's like wiping your ass with silk, I love it!
I love this fucking line.
Second off...
Quote from: Lesterbut what was up with her scene, where she makes out with neo? it HAS to mean something. "its just a kiss". but was it? doesnt it seem wierd, that scene? its definitely a feeling like something important is being set up.
This scene shows just how in love Neo and Trinity are. It also shows that Persephone (who is my favorite greek myth) is only a computer program but she wants to be loved. I don't think there's anything important coming out of it, but I really liked the scene. She's just a computer program, but she has feelings and she wants to betray the Merovingian. It's grizzy great! I've found that people who really hate the dance/sex scene hate this scene as well, but this is important because it sets up that we're saving humanity here, not just trinity and morpheus and neo and those people. all that is left of humanity, including human ideals.[/quote]
Quote from: bonanzatazI don't think there's anything important coming out of it, but I really liked the scene. She's just a computer program, but she has feelings and she wants to betray the Merovingian.
I like this angle but I kept thinking "She's trying to infect him with something." Matrix AIDS or Matrix SARS or Matrix Mono or a virus or what have you.....
i thought that at first, but then she kisses him and nothing happens and she goes, "you're a lucky woman trinity" and then they get the keymaker. why would she betray them only to then help them? it wouldn't make sense.
Quote from: bonanzatazi thought that at first, but then she kisses him and nothing happens and she goes, "you're a lucky woman trinity" and then they get the keymaker. why would she betray them only to then help them? it wouldn't make sense.
Maybe she's the Matrix Momma that the Architect was jawwing on about...
edit: I'm telling you, I still don't grasp this plot. I might be making zero sense....and that's......OK.
about the burly brawl: i'm not complaining. it looked amazing. some of the first cg shots i didn't even fully notice. and yeah, kind of like Lester was saying, if you just willingly suspend your disbelief and go with it...decide that yeah, those Smiths are real, well..fight scenes don't get much better...
Persephone: i read somewhere...can't find it now..that her character is between versions of the Matrix...or caught between the Matrix and the real world...something like that (:?)...and she's lost much of her ability to feel emotion (which isn't reffered to as specifically in the actual film). this is why she wants a kiss so much...
Quote from: MeshMaybe she's the Matrix Momma that the Architect was jawwing on about...
the Oracle!
Quote from: picolasPersephone: i read somewhere...can't find it now..that her character is between versions of the Matrix...or caught between the Matrix and the real world...something like that (:?)...and she's lost much of her ability to feel emotion (which isn't reffered to as specifically in the actual film). this is why she wants a kiss so much...
But don't you think that by kissing Neo she'll know which door that particular "One" will choose, not necessarily because she's lost emotions? Sure she'll help them anyway because she wants to get back at the Merovingian, but if she truly believes that Neo loves Trinity, she'll know the turn-out with Neo and the Arcitect.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: picolasPersephone: i read somewhere...can't find it now..that her character is between versions of the Matrix...or caught between the Matrix and the real world...something like that (:?)...and she's lost much of her ability to feel emotion (which isn't reffered to as specifically in the actual film). this is why she wants a kiss so much...
But don't you think that by kissing Neo she'll know which door that particular "One" will choose, not necessarily because she's lost emotions? Sure she'll help them anyway because she wants to get back at the Merovingian, but if she truly believes that Neo loves Trinity, she'll know the turn-out with Neo and the Arcitect.
makes lots of sense and i hadn't thought of it that way..yeah..that's probably her prime motivation, but the fact that she can't feel would further motivate her actions personally as well..
Quote from: picolasthe Oracle!
Please
Does anyone know where you can download the Matrix reloaded or parts of it?
No, but is everyone else going to miss Gloria Foster (I think that's her name) as the Oracle? She's so charmingly good as the Oracle
Quote from: BankyEdwardsDoes anyone know where you can download the Matrix reloaded or parts of it?
I keep getting fakes on KaZaA.
me too
pic's illegal matrix rip tip:
a passing hooligan mentioned that the real copies of reloaded (at least, part deux) could be found using names with "(ESO).TS." find them and you've found the real thing...
Quote from: picolaspic's illegal matrix rip tip:
a passing hooligan mentioned that the real copies of reloaded (at least, part deux) could be found using names with "(ESO).TS." find them and you've found the real thing...
Tried those (heard the same tip), but they played nothing. Is there a special player or software to watch it on/with? Or something to test it before downloading the entire file? Do you know the size of the file?
i freakin hate the ending matrix 2. it piss me off soooo much. they started to talk ... BOOM.. It was over.
peace
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: picolaspic's illegal matrix rip tip:
a passing hooligan mentioned that the real copies of reloaded (at least, part deux) could be found using names with "(ESO).TS." find them and you've found the real thing...
Tried those (heard the same tip), but they played nothing. Is there a special player or software to watch it on/with? Or something to test it before downloading the entire file? Do you know the size of the file?
onay pecialsay layerpay eedednay. artpay owtay foay owtay siay 163760 ilobyteskay.
please explain jumble
onay pecialsay layerpay eedednay. artpay owtay foay owtay siay 163760 ilobyteskay.[/quote]
i think it says:
"NO SPECIAL PLAYER NEEDED. PART TWO OF TWO IS 163760 KILOBITES"
Quote from: MacGuffinI keep getting fakes on KaZaA.
So far I've gotten Saving Private Ryan, Dumb and Dumber, Joy Ride, some movie I've never heard of, and a foreign porn movie :?
Quote from: MacGuffinTried those (heard the same tip), but they played nothing. Is there a special player or software to watch it on/with? Or something to test it before downloading the entire file? Do you know the size of the file?
Try downloading divx (http://www.divx.com/divx/). I think you may need a particular codec (or something like that) to view certain films that you download. I used to download a lot of movie I couldn't see but once I had the divx codec, they all worked. Worth a try.
You all stop it... stop it now. This is all very wrong.
It's only okay if you download the first half (what I refer to as the "deadly dull half). Anything exciting you should pay for.
yeah but even if u do download it won't it be really shitty quality? i dunno cos i've never downloaded a movie before. seems like to fully enjoy this one u need to see it in the theater or on dvd w/ a badass sound system.
im going to see it again tomorrow. :-D
Quote from: cbrad4dyeah but even if u do download it won't it be really shitty quality? i dunno cos i've never downloaded a movie before. seems like to fully enjoy this one u need to see it in the theater or on dvd w/ a badass sound system.
im going to see it again tomorrow. :-D
DVD screener rips are usually of very good quality.
NO SPECIAL PLAYER NEEDED. PART TWO OF TWO IS 163760 KILOBITES"
Was anybody else waiting for their friend to finally die already so you could have your turn with the controller during the whole 100 Smiths section.
After 4 minutes Kung Fu is still Kung Fu.
I wanted my turn to play the game, because that's what the effects looked like, straight out of a video game.
But what I found truly offensive about the film was this: It LOOKED nothing like the first film. What happened to Bill Pope? Did he fall asleep.
The first film had these great moments, stunning shots, and I'm talking about the little things like rain falling from the rooftop down as the car pulls up with Neo and the gang.
Where was that? This did not have that comic book feel, sharp angles, great style and care taken in presentation. This was like watching a two hour video game with cut scenes.
The best part was the introduction of the back doors. That was clever. After that it's a moo point.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Did you say "moo"...
Yeah. Moo. Like a cow. What's the point.
Quote from: michael alessandroWas anybody else waiting for their friend to finally die already so you could have your turn with the controller during the whole 100 Smiths section.
After 4 minutes Kung Fu is still Kung Fu.
I wanted my turn to play the game, because that's what the effects looked like, straight out of a video game.
I've made this point, like, 6 times by now.
Still, I'm not one bit surprised that someone agrees with me.
Quote from: michael alessandro
But what I found truly offensive about the film was this: It LOOKED nothing like the first film. What happened to Bill Pope? Did he fall asleep.
The first film had these great moments, stunning shots, and I'm talking about the little things like rain falling from the rooftop down as the car pulls up with Neo and the gang.
Where was that? This did not have that comic book feel, sharp angles, great style and care taken in presentation. This was like watching a two hour video game with cut scenes.
I totally agree that Reloaded was no where near as visually striking or inventive as the first film. Sure, it had some overwhelming effects sequences, but where were the more subtle artistic touches....?
Quote from: Mesh
I totally agree that Reloaded was no where near as visually striking or inventive as the first film. Sure, it had some overwhelming effects sequences, but where were the more subtle artistic touches....?
reading stuff like this still makes me wonder if we all saw the same movie. i thought the photography in this film was beautiful, and i'm not talking specifically about the fight scenes rather about all the scenes. in particular; all the stuff in Zion, esp. the dance/sex scene, the shot of Neo and the gang walking through the kitchen in that french restaurant, the french restaurant itself, that close-up of the chick eating that cake, the overhead shot of the keymaker running through all the doors... could go on and on.
point being, there seems to be too much concentration on minor hookups with the visuals instead of discussing the heat of the matter. there is a wealth of stuff in reloaded that we probably havent even begun to dig up yet b/c we feel the need to bitch and moan about every single frame that looks too cgi-ish. get over it.
ANYWHOOOOO, back on topic here. I just saw it again today, and I must say on second viewing stuff starts to make a little more sense. You begin to realize how well the film is structured, from Neo's dream, etc. The architect scene is the one I'm hung up on.*
*I coulda sworn I saw President Bush for a few seconds on the little screens. Am I going mad?
Also, this scene makes more sense on a second viewing, for me at least. Cos during my first viewing i was so completely taken by the little screens, neo's reactions, the flashbacks to his childlife and everything else that comes on them that I kinda was sidetracked from what the architect was saying. On the 2nd time I paid attention more closely.
yes Bush was in that scene with the screens. I got a good bootleg copy off the internet so if anyone has any questions about a shot or dialouge i could check
I agree with however wrote this
reading stuff like this still makes me wonder if we all saw the same movie. i thought the photography in this film was beautiful, and i'm not talking specifically about the fight scenes rather about all the scenes. in particular; all the stuff in Zion, esp. the dance/sex scene, the shot of Neo and the gang walking through the kitchen in that french restaurant, the french restaurant itself, that close-up of the chick eating that cake, the overhead shot of the keymaker running through all the doors... could go on and on.
point being, there seems to be too much concentration on minor hookups with the visuals instead of discussing the heat of the matter. there is a wealth of stuff in reloaded that we probably havent even begun to dig up yet b/c we feel the need to bitch and moan about every single frame that looks too cgi-ish. get over it.
I liked this flick a lot. There were moments where I found myself staring slack-jawed at the screen. But there were un-ignorable moments where I found myself thinking 'whaaaaaaaaat?'. The techno-talk, chats about future and 'mainframes' whatever took me completely out of the film. The first had moments like that but were understandable, this one, I was in complete confusion.
Fuck it.
The rest was unbelievable. The 100 Smith fight was such a pleasure. The freeway scene didn't dissapoint either. Whereas the first seemed like a slow-burn to a spectacular finale, this one goes all out, throughout. More sex appeal, more fights, more characters. And it wasn't a dumb sequel as I thought it might become. It kept its brain in check, pity mine was switched off.
When in the hell did this thread fall off? There is enough to talk about this movie to fill 100's of pages. Bonanzataz, Mesh, RegularKarate, and for gods sake MacGuffin. What the hell happened. We need to continue the active discussion i mean at least a little bit. I dont know maybe im alone in this but to me the more you discuss and think about a movie like this, the more you appreciate it and learn from it.
Okay, I was playing the video game Enter the Matrix, and they have some filmed footage just for the game, but with the actors from the movies, and they use the new oracle lady
She's nowhere near as good as the old oracle :(
Quote from: BankyEdwardsWhat the hell happened.
For some reason, just lost interest in making a "long-winded plot synopsis."
Do you mean Mesh killed the thread?
Okay, in a few months everyone's going to be complaining about the oracle, just remember, you heard it here first
When you play the video game as Niobe and you get to the part where you have a one on one with the oracle. She says she looks different because the Merovingian got mad at her for helping Neo and punished her by changing her appearance.
I know that, but what I'm saying is that the new oracle sucks
Shes defiantly not as good but i think she gets the job done. it will be hard to explain the change in a beleivable manor in Revelutions.
Quote from: BankyEdwardsI dont know maybe im alone in this but to me the more you discuss and think about a movie like this, the more you appreciate it and learn from it.
I don't foresee The Matrix: Reloaded teaching me much of anything, to be honest.
And Banky: bring up some of those issues you feel we haven't sufficiently covered. We'll talk, I bet.
Quote from: BankyEdwardsWhen you play the video game as Niobe and you get to the part where you have a one on one with the oracle. She says she looks different because the Merovingian got mad at her for helping Neo and punished her by changing her appearance.
ORACLE: Niobe.....
NIOBE: Do I know you?
ORACLE: You know me, though you just may not recognize me.
NIOBE: Are you telling me that you are the Oracle?
ORACLE: I know this may not be easy for any of you, change never is. I wish the face you remember was the face I was still wearing, but that face is gone.
NIOBE: If you are the Oracle, tell me if I believe you are.
ORACLE: You don't right now, but you will.
NIOBE: Are you going to tell me something to make me believe you?
ORACLE: Come on Niobe, you know I can't do that.
N: Why not?
O: Because I cannot make you do anything.
N: At least you sound the same.
O: As I said, you may not recognize the face, but who and what I am underneath remains the same.
N: Can I ask what happened?
O: The Merovingian warned me, that If I made a certain choice it would cost me. He is, among other things, a man of his word.
N: What was the choice?
O: The same one you yourself will have to make: The choice to help Neo or not.
N: Then Neo is still alive?
O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
N: Can we free him?
O: Trinity can, but she will have to fight her way through hell to do it.
N: Can I help?
O: That's why I called you. I cannot tell you what is going to happen. All I can do is hope that if given the chance, you will find the courage to do what you can.
N: You once told me you knew everything you needed to.
O: I do. I knew everything from the begining of this path to the end.
N: I don't understand.
O: Even I can't see beyond the end.
N: The end? Are you trying to tell me the world is going to end?
O: Yes. If we cannot save it, it will end.
N: You mean Neo.
O: I mean we. The path of the one is made by the many. I have a role to play just as you have yours.
Quote from: MacGuffin
N: Then Neo is still alive?
O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
HA! I was right!
uh... kind of
Potential DVD cover art:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2Farticles%2Fmiscgfx%2Fcovers2%2Fmatrixreloaded1.jpg&hash=c8faed3d96b077f6e05c5412934b92930af5d0f4)(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2Farticles%2Fmiscgfx%2Fcovers2%2Fmatrixreloaded2.jpg&hash=499e22244c2517f96e05754f7f1926794cc91ff2)(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2Farticles%2Fmiscgfx%2Fcovers2%2Fmatrixreloaded3.jpg&hash=d6a1677adc68511d31ff5b1239e0c4f89f5587e6)
There's no date announced yet for the DVD, but you can expect it to be in stores prior to the theatrical release of The Matrix: Revolutions in November.
me too.
Nah, I like the white better:
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedigitalbits.com%2Farticles%2Fmiscgfx%2Fcovers2%2Fmatrixreloaded2.jpg&hash=499e22244c2517f96e05754f7f1926794cc91ff2)
Quote from: Jeremy BlackmanNah, I like the white better
yeah, u would.
Quote from: MacGuffin
N: Then Neo is still alive?
O: Yes, he touched the source and seperated his mind from his body. Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Was that what you thought when you saw it the first time?
My take was (well still is), that he could stop the machines because they are controlled by the matrix, and since he's the one inside the matrix, even though he's out, there's a permanent link between him and the matrix. As for why he's unconscious, not for a second thought he wasn't alive (Revolutions, Duh!) just that he is too exhausted, in a way he ran out of energy.
I personally enjoy more the films when they leave to the viewer to make up his own mind, even if one can be wrong, still I find it more rewarding because the film doesn't end there.
BTW, in my second viewing I found the dance sequence to be absolutely perfect, first time thought was too long, this one was really amazing, I wouldn't cut a second of this film.
(https://xixax.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatisthematrix.warnerbros.com%2Frl_img%2Fposter_intnl_smith_med.jpg&hash=08dcfa7b3e0dba9048808587e6c5ea0c43113c69)
did anyone figure out what they were all looking at?
i suspect it will be answered in the third film if ever
perhaps it's the source?
It's a poster. They aren't looking at anything.
Quote from: tremoloslothIt's a poster. They aren't looking at anything.
have you noticed the white box that's reflected in all of their sunglasses? even in the smiths that are behind the other smiths? and don't give me that cigar bullshit
Come on, it's nothing. Maybe they're looking at the hallway. It doesn't really matter, that's a Reloaded poster, if it meant anything, we'd know by now
thats bullshit. All the other movie posters, the people were looking at something specific. Of course their looking at something. "we would have known by now" you sound like an asshole. As if we all know everything about the matrix and Revelutions.
the brothers themselves said that reflections are one of, if not the most important motif in all of the films. i've decided to start an investigation on this matter, i'll probably get some results by the end of the weekend
This is ridiculous
I thought it was the second-most pretentious movie ever. After the first Matrix.
I'll give The Matrix this. It certainly works as a work of art in extending its own physical limits to discussions very wide ranging. On the other hand, this is all over analyzitation given the film operates on the level of a pure action film. Nothing else. It's characters sit around and talk their drama and I am wondering what apsect of this film can not be better garnered in a book instead? The two brothers who made this film are suppose to be experts on epic German poetry or whatever and with the worlds shown in this movie, it seems better suited for the imagination of the book. I don't believe for a second this movie really is operating for a film at all. Since the book wants to be so deep, why not just go the extra mile and do it book form and realize what movies stand for? And thats not for adding information, but elevating drama. Movies stand no chance on acting for new information.
Also, I recently read one of the brother directors (Larry) seems to be moving to get a sex change operation. I don't know the credibility of the source but the pic of him from the LA premiere of Reloaded is quite suspect considering he showed up with make up as a girl, a very feminine face and pearl earrings on and he is growing longer hair to supposebly better match a girl when the operation is completed. Right now, he is supposebly still in the stage of getting female hormones injected into his body. And he is also dating a dominatix. I thought it was funny.
~rougerum
Finally saw this one last night, I can now take in this thread without fear of spoilage.
After all the criticism I saw elsewhere, I wasn't sure what to expect, but I can honestly say that I was not disappointed. And, I also have to say (which may get me blacklisted here) that the dance/sex scene was - to me - the best sex scene I've ever seen on film. It was absolutely perfect in every way.
Speaking of sex, my wife has me scouring the internet for that Merovingian chocolate cake recipe. Damn. I feel so inadequate now.
Next friday night comes my second viewing... In an IMAX theater. WOO!
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetAlso, I recently read one of the brother directors (Larry) seems to be moving to get a sex change operation. I don't know the credibility of the source but the pic of him from the LA premiere of Reloaded is quite suspect considering he showed up with make up as a girl, a very feminine face and pearl earrings on and he is growing longer hair to supposebly better match a girl when the operation is completed. Right now, he is supposebly still in the stage of getting female hormones injected into his body. And he is also dating a dominatix. I thought it was funny.
~rougerum
hmm. weird. well depending on the validity of that source, i mean ppl talk shit, it certainly adds more mystique to the already mysterious wachowski brothers image, which is cool. i dunno, does it really matter? david lynch collects body parts. p eats babies. its all gravy to me.
Quote from: Xixax
And, I also have to say (which may get me blacklisted here) that the dance/sex scene was - to me - the best sex scene I've ever seen on film. It was absolutely perfect in every way.
i agree. i liked it even more on my second viewing. i also love the speech Morpheus gives at the beginning, with the music building up- chilling.
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetAlso, I recently read one of the brother directors (Larry) seems to be moving to get a sex change operation. I don't know the credibility of the source but the pic of him from the LA premiere of Reloaded is quite suspect considering he showed up with make up as a girl, a very feminine face and pearl earrings on and he is growing longer hair to supposebly better match a girl when the operation is completed. Right now, he is supposebly still in the stage of getting female hormones injected into his body. And he is also dating a dominatix. I thought it was funny.
I don't believe it. The Brothers are keeping a very low profile, not doing any press (it's a clause in their contract) and I'm pretty sure they haven't attended any of the premieres - even at Cannes.
The domniatrix dating might be true, considering Larry just got divorced.
I know they didn't attend Cannes, but I do they know they both attended the LA premiere. I've seen pics and talk of it on tv showing them walking the red carpet. The sources didn't directly come from Larry or the other brother, but Larry's divorced wife who is now battaling for more money in their divorce and the former husband of the dominatix who was dumped because of Larry starting an affair with his wife.
~rougerum
I'm not a huge matrix fan but I did really enjoy the first one. I'm still up in the air about the second one. But today something happened that changed my mind on both films...for the worse.
I used to respect the matrix for its captivating and original storyline. Then I saw The Truman Show again. These guys copied so much from the Truman Show that it's almost embarrassing. Ok, the whole living in an imaginary world, having to choose between realities thing is as old as Kant and probably older. But that's not the only thing taken from The Truman Show. At one point, after realizing that his world revolves around him Truman steps into traffic, stopping traffic simply by putting his up. Hello, stopping bullets with your hand, how boringly unoriginal!!! I know that every idea in Hollywood is borrowed from someone elses idea, but if you take away the originality of the concepts behind the matrix, all you're left with is special effects. Does this bother anybody else?
BTW, The Truman Show is fantastic. Guilty confession there.
I like the Truman Show too
Pretty much everything about the Matrix is in fact a copy of something else. The fight scenes (mainly from part 1) are really similar to lots of Hong Kong action
but I still like it
what about dark city? that is yet more resembling.
Quote from: DanTMcGovernI used to respect the matrix for its captivating and original storyline. Then I saw The Truman Show again. These guys copied so much from the Truman Show that it's almost embarrassing. Ok, the whole living in an imaginary world, having to choose between realities thing is as old as Kant and probably older. But that's not the only thing taken from The Truman Show. At one point, after realizing that his world revolves around him Truman steps into traffic, stopping traffic simply by putting his up. Hello, stopping bullets with your hand, how boringly unoriginal!!! I know that every idea in Hollywood is borrowed from someone elses idea, but if you take away the originality of the concepts behind the matrix, all you're left with is special effects. Does this bother anybody else?
BTW, The Truman Show is fantastic. Guilty confession there.
If wanna go that direction, "The Truman Show" is a rip-off of a "Twilight Zone" episode called "A World Of Difference" where a man finds out his life has been a TV show.
Plus, there is a copy of the screenplay for "The Matrix" dated 1996. "Truman Show" came out in 1998.
And what's the earliest date on a Truman Show screenplay, MacGuffin?
Quote from: DanTMcGovernAnd what's the earliest date on a Truman Show screenplay, MacGuffin?
Whenever it was, it's different than what appeared on screen.
The "Twilight Zone" episode aired in 1960.
Yeah, the Matrix Truman show thing is a coincidence... they just happen to be similar.
The Dark City Similarities are much closer. They even used some of the same set pieces. And those spiraling shots of people in stairways.
Something that will likely anger a great deal or at least turn them off, my favorite critic, Stanley Kauffmann, just released his reasons for not even reviewing any of the Matrix movies in light of the conversations (like the one here) they are getting on serious matters:
Note. Several readers have asked why I have not reviewed either the first Matrix film or its sequel, especially since the theme has evoked so much serious comment. But serious themes are hardly new in science fiction. In the 1950s, when I was a book editor, I dealt with, among other sorts of books, some science fiction, including novels by Ray Bradbury, Arthur C. Clarke, Frederik Pohl, and C.M. Kornbluth, most of which were built on serious ideas and were really readable, not mere aggrandized juvenilia à la The Matrix. Intellectuals comparable to those who are now discussing the Matrix films might just as easily have examined back then the core themes of Fahrenheit 451 by Bradbury and The Space Merchants by Pohl and Kornbluth. In any case this quite familiar utilization of serious thought does not in itself make the Matrix films more than the adolescent fodder that they are.
~rougerum
I don't get it. People are always saying either the Matrix is too hard to understand for an action movie or too stupid of a movie to even review
Dinner with the wife: $40.00
Drinks: $12.00
Tickets to the IMAX showing of The Matrix 2: $24.00
Popcorn: $6.00
Seeing the dance scene on a five-story-tall screen with 12,000 watts of multichannel sound: PRICELESS
If a critic refuses to review a film, he/she's not allowed to write about why he/she refused to review it. You say you refuse to review something, you just don't talk about it, you given up your license to comment.
If you're so fucking snobbish that think you're above reviewing a film like the Matrix, then shut the fuck up about it.
...and yes, I would say this if he were talking about almost any film. Unless the critic was being humorous, which this one wasn't.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: DanTMcGovernAnd what's the earliest date on a Truman Show screenplay, MacGuffin?
Whenever it was, it's different than what appeared on screen.
The "Twilight Zone" episode aired in 1960.
Ugh, no date on the Truman Show screenplay?! I'm so disappointed! And to think, I was going to suggest that you change your name to Dr. Know.
Still might be a good idea.
RK, his reasoning for not reviewing the Matrix is not because he believes he is above it, but that he it is not even reviewable for him. His avenue of film review are art films and he doesn't even review most known films out anyways. The only reason he made a note of Matrix is because to reply to the flood of emails he may take reviewing the film into consideration given the large amount of serious conversation on the film. He said of how common that was in sci fi and that the film is still an amateur work.
Personally, I think The Matrix: Reloaded is bad both on the action and art level and I cant see how it could be reviewed for any artistic merit.
~rougerum
Quote from: XixaxDinner with the wife: $40.00
Drinks: $12.00
Tickets to the IMAX showing of The Matrix 2: $24.00
Popcorn: $6.00
Seeing the dance scene on a five-story-tall screen with 12,000 watts of multichannel sound: PRICELESS
in the few times i've seen 35mm prints projected on IMAX screens i've been really disappointed. the image (understandably, but still unfortunate) always just fades out to black on all four corners. :(
Quote from: DanTMcGovernUgh, no date on the Truman Show screenplay?! I'm so disappointed! And to think, I was going to suggest that you change your name to Dr. Know.
Still might be a good idea.
oh my, the first public anti-mac attack.
Quote from: The Gold Trumpet
Personally, I think The Matrix: Reloaded is bad both on the action and art level and I cant see how it could be reviewed for any artistic merit.
I'm no defender of the Matrix. I'm highly critical of it, too. But any honest observer of film art has to hand it to The Matrix for bullet time. It's their innovation and it's everywhere. You have to give them at least that.
Bullet time? How is that anything important for film art? That seems regulated for use and copy really mainly in the action film only and if even used in an art film, it is just one technique. If the work can't back up its purpose, then it is meaningless.
~rougerum
The Matrix succeeds at production design, but not really at 'film art'.
Quote from: The Gold TrumpetBullet time? How is that anything important for film art? That seems regulated for use and copy really mainly in the action film only and if even used in an art film, it is just one technique.
There was once a time when narrative editing was "just one technique." (And, no, I'm not saying bullet time is anywhere near as important.)
An innovation doesn't need a clearly defined "purpose" or "meaning" at the time of its inception.
Bullet time is an innovation in the "art" of making action films, which themselves are a large, valid, broadly defineable art form.
I thought it was great just for an action movie -nothing more than (insert old-school batman verbs/adjectives a la)whiz-bang-arrgh-slap-crackkk-whap-smack-etc. Really good film for nothing more than to go to the theatre(which i hardly never do anymore)and be amazed at the "power of cinema" :-D
Those Twins rocked :!:
Dufresne is right, the qualities in the movie that excel are in the production design only. Comparing bullet time to narrative editing is a bad one because narrative editing brought upon a new way of telling a story for films while bullet time is just an effect for a certain action sequence. Narrative editing is the most important technique added, and yes, it is a technique, but it doesn't gurantee for quality of work. Its just that it exists as a new level of how to show films. I'm not saying bullet time is good or bad, but it is a production achievement in acting for narrative films. It is in no way breaking any structure of how a film is presented. The Matrix movies are still typical works for their field.
~rougerum
You people are all on crack. Reloaded is one of the most incredible films ever made from a technical standpoint.
When you appreciate film, it's OK to appreciate more than the direction and story.
Anyone who says that this film is anything less than phenomenal from a technical standpoint loses all credibility in my book.
I saw it for the second time last night, this time in an IMAX theater, and I was once again awed. The sound design, the effects - all of it was simply amazing, and the IMAX transfer was flawless.
Quote from: XixaxAnyone who says that this film is anything less than phenomenal from a technical standpoint loses all credibility in my book.
I totally agree. But the script is crap! Some of the lines are so stupid, I nearly laughed my head of!
Quote from: XixaxYou people are all on crack. Reloaded is one of the most incredible films ever made from a technical standpoint.
When you appreciate film, it's OK to appreciate more than the direction and story.
Anyone who says that this film is anything less than phenomenal from a technical standpoint loses all credibility in my book.
I saw it for the second time last night, this time in an IMAX theater, and I was once again awed. The sound design, the effects - all of it was simply amazing, and the IMAX transfer was flawless.
ur lucky. i would luv to see this thing in an imax. i've never even been to one before. i would assume they are mainly in the bigger cities, yes? anyone know of any around georgia/south carolina area?
it seems like the same 4 ppl are bashing the movie for the past 6 or 7 pages of this thread. "the matrix isn't technically innovative, just the set design/ not a work of art..blah blah blah" ---enough. we get it. ur retarted. take ur perpetual whining to the brown bunny thread and stop polluting this one, for the sake of the ppl who do love the movie.
Quote from: Sigur RósQuote from: oakmanc234
I didn't get a single bit of the 'Architect' conversation in 'Reloaded'
:yabbse-thumbup: amen!
Maybe this will help. Source: Latino Review
Since the release of Larry and Andy Wachowski's highly anticipated sequel, "The Matrix Reloaded" many moviegoers have left the theater either disappointed, enthralled or completely confused. The slow pacing of the film's first forty minutes, the techno-babble conversation between Keanu Reeves' Neo and Helmut Balkis' Architect, and the sudden cliffhanger ending have left many so alienated that they didn't care to wait after the credits to see the teaser for the trilogy's conclusion, "The Matrix Revolutions." The Wachowski brothers certainly knew their film was the most anticipated of the year and rather than make it easy for us (and them) by crafting a complete rehash of the original they've made a film that forces the viewer to use that tool called the brain. Yes, we are left with more questions than answers and the film could have been a hell of a lot better, but after seeing it a number of times I've come to realize how brilliant this series is and I applaud the Wachowski's efforts.
In my original review I stated how disappointed I was that the film didn't raise the questions that I wanted it to. When moviegoers become attached to a particular series or story they're sometimes so devoted that their expectations can never be met. We often want the story to take the direction we're interested in and when it doesn't we get pissed. Sure, the Wachowski brothers could have taken the series to a level that would make it an instant and untouchable classic, but the story they want to tell is still interesting and the trip so far has never been boring. I'd rather the story stay on its current course than turn into a PG-13 family oriented rehash that has no conclusion in sight.
The questions raised in "The Matrix Reloaded" have left many confused, but I truly have faith that all will be answered in the final film "Revolutions." If some of you out there are too impatient to wait until November then you'll be happy to learn that many of the answers you seek are available now and are actually in "Reloaded". You just have to pay very close attention and know where to look for them. If you haven't seen "Reloaded" by now then you shouldn't be reading this spoiler filled article and I suggest you don't read any further. This article is quite lengthy so bare with me. The question about the film get I'm asked most is also the most irrelevant:
Why does Neo fight Agent Smith when he can fly away?We all know what a badass Neo became after Agent Smith (Hugo Weaving) "killed" him in the first film. He's nearly omnipotent with the ability to control matter, outrace, stop bullets and fly within the Matrix. So why doesn't he fly away from those hundred Smiths in the "burly brawl"? Because Neo has become a bit arrogant. We see it when he easily takes out three agents in the film's opening. He fights those agents and the Merovingian's (Lambert Wilson) goons to give his friends time to fly away. It's true, he doesn't have to fight Smith, but he did take him down before and wants to see if he still can. He doesn't count on the fact that Smith can now copy himself and eventually realizes he can't win this time. All of the Smiths could have just tried to shoot Neo too. Eventually at least one of them could have wounded him, but they want to get close to Neo to do something else, something we'll get to later.
Is the Oracle's prophecy a hoax?Well, yes and no. The conclusion I've come to is that much like Obi-Wan Kenobi laid that crap on Luke about his father in "Star Wars" and told "the truth from a certain point of view", the Oracle (Gloria Foster)has done the same with Neo, Morpheus and the citizens of Zion. To understand the meaning of this we must first answer another question.
Who are the Architect and the Oracle?When Neo steps through the door of light near "Reloaded's" conclusion he encounters the Architect, the designer of the matrix. The Architect is a program from the machine world who explains to Neo that the Matrix itself is a mathematical equation that is almost flawless. Its flaw lies in the fact that human beings themselves are flawed and often don't accept the program. Many attempts to create the perfect dreamworld for humans to interface with resulted in failure which led to the machines to develop another solution: the Oracle. The Oracle was an intuitive program created to study the human psyche. The machines and the Architect could never understand why human beings could not accept the program of the Matrix even if it was tailored for their lesser minds. Through her studies the Oracle came to the conclusion that 99.9% of humans plugged into the Matrix could accept the program only if they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice on an unconscious level. But the existence of that 00.1% is a threat that the machines were not willing to let grow.
As Morpheus stated in the original film (and also demonstrated in the Animatrix short the Second Renaissance Parts I & II) , the human race barely survived its initial war with the machines. The machines knew that many humans born plugged into the Matrix would reject the program and eventually find freedom through the aid of humans born in the real world. For the machines to survive they could not let the number of freed human minds grow so a form of control was developed: the Prophecy.
With the aid of the Oracle's research results, the machines created a hoax to keep mankind in check. The Matrix was an unbalanced mathematical equation that always resulted in the same remainder. This remainder was an anomaly that despite his efforts the Architect could never eliminate from the equation. The machines decided to use this problem to their advantage and place this anomaly or piece of code within a human man born in the Matrix. With this piece of code that human mind would interface with the Matrix differently from others and would develop uncanny God-like abilities. With the help of the Oracle the machines would create the prophecy and the myth of the One: he who possessed this anomalous code. By giving mankind false hope the machines could keep them in check within the Matrix and the real world. The 00.1% of minds that did not accept the Matrix would not grow in number.
The person chosen to be the "One" would use his power to free human minds from the Matrix and build the free human city in the real world known as Zion. Remember Morpheus explained to Neo in the first film that "a man born inside the Matrix freed the first of them" and could "reshape the Matrix as he saw fit"? Through the guidance of the Oracle the One would eventually make contact with the source: the machine mainframe. The One would them be presented with the choice of returning the code within him to the source so that it can be temporarily disseminated into the Matrix, once again balancing the equation. At this point the machines would attempt to destroy Zion in the real world and allow the One to choose 23 individuals from the Matrix, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion, free more human minds and begin the cycle again. "After he died, the Oracle prophecized his return," Morpheus told Neo. But little did he know that this has occurred more than once.
As the Architect reveals to Neo this process has occurred five times before. A human mind is chosen as the one, given extraordinary power to use in the Matrix, the ability to free human minds, build a human refuge in the real world and the choice to return his powers/code to the Matrix so the cycle can start again. What they did not expect was Neo to be different.
Who or what is Neo?What the machines didn't count on is that the intuitive program dubbed by humans as the Oracle would develop an affinity for the human race. Time and time again she has seen the cycle of human freedom and destruction repeated. The machines have played this game five times with an ignorant human race and won each time. But she knows that Neo is different from his predecessors.
Neo carries a code within him that gives him super abilities within the Matrix. All of his predecessors chose to return this code to the source in order to save the human race. Unlike Neo they were designed to develop an attachment to mankind that would not allow them to turn their back it. But, Neo is an outsider, a loner who has no attachments. Sure, he is close to Morpheus, the man who freed him and the citizens of Zion but he's never been comfortable with his role as a "messiah". There is only one person Neo has developed an attachment to and that's Trinity. She understood and fell in love with Neo before they even met. "I know why you live alone and why night after night you sit alone at your computer," she tells him when they first meet in the original film. She doesn't love this guy because he's "the One" she loves him because she understands him and lived in the Matrix like he did before she was freed.
When Neo encounters the Architect he is given two choices. Through the door on his right he can return the code he carries within him to the source/machine mainframe. The equation that makes up the Matrix will once again become balanced and the human minds plugged in will be saved. Zion will still be destroyed, but Neo will have the chance to free 23 minds from the Matrix to rebuild it and save the human race. Like Noah's ark these 16 females and 7 males will procreate to survive in the real world. If Neo chooses the door to his left, he will return to the Matrix to save Trinity, but without the code he carries the equation that makes up the Matrix will remain unbalanced causing the dreamworld to decay and eventually shut down. The system will crash killing billions of human minds plugged in and coupled with the destruction of Zion will destroy the entire human race. The machines feel that they will win either way. They'll survive, either continuing to use the human race as batteries or living off of low power reserves. They didn't expect Neo to choose to return to the Matrix unlike his predecessors, because they don't understand his attachment to Trinity. But the Oracle understands and hoped he would make that choice.
What happened to Neo in the real world?When Neo returned to the real world after he saved Trinity he says to her, "Something's different, I can feel them." It appears that some of his abilities from the Matrix have followed him into the real world, but how? Well, just as people like Trinity and Morpheus have the ability to download combat training into their brains, Neo appears to have downloaded some more of the code into his own mind. Its likely that the code within the Matrix and the code that the machines use to communicate and control each other are similar and that Neo can now operate on their level. Unfortunately, it also appears that using these new "powers" weakens Neo and may potentially kill him, hence the coma he falls into. This is probably what the Oracle was counting on. Yes, she lied to Neo and Morpheus about the Prophecy, but did so to put them on the right path so that Neo would choose not to return his abilities to the source. "You've already made the choice," she tells him, "You have to understand why you made it." She knew his encounter and interface with the Architect would change him, for the better.
What can we expect from Revolutions?Besides being another all out action fest I think that the answers to these questions will be fully explained in part three and the story will come to a conclusion. Neo will probably use his abilities to defeat the machines and save Zion, but not before what appears in the teaser to be an all out battle between men and machines. Neo has possessed these abilities all along and his encounter with the Architect has helped him modify it for use in the real world, but the code he carries is incomplete. Somewhere along the way, Neo imprinted part of the code onto another, but who? Is it Trinity? Will their tryst lead to baby Neo to be born in movie 3? That's funny, but maybe. If you recall there is a certain agent out there in the Matrix gunning for Neo. An agent who claims he is now "unplugged, a new man" like Neo. An agent named Smith who now has the uncanny ability to copy himself onto other programs and has even managed to download himself into Bane (Ian Bliss) in the real world.
When Neo jumped into Smith at the end of the first Matrix part of his code imprinted onto him and left him as a malfunctioning program. Smith already developed too many human characteristics and desired for Zion to be destroyed so that he could get out of "this zoo" and be deleted. Now that he is a "new man" he claims Neo has given him "purpose." Smith doesn't want to return to the source and be deleted like other malfunctioning programs but desires to control the Matrix. It's his new playground, the Devil's playground. He wants to take the rest of Neo's code so that the Matrix can become his world and he can keep it running. "I want what you want," he tells Neo, "everything." By Revolutions it looks like Neo will have to encounter thousands of Agent Smiths in order to take back what he took from him and save Zion. Smith may become everything and everyone. Neo was arrogant and believed he could easily defeat a couple of Smiths the first time he took them on, but now he'll be more prepared for what he's up against. "You are the only thing that stands in his way," the Oracle is heard saying in the teaser. Judging by the way he's laughing it looks as though Smith will develop even more human traits and personality making things more interesting.
I think we'll also get more from Niobe (Jada Pinkett-Smith) in the real world battle against the machines. I just hope she doesn't turn into Lando Calrissian in "Jedi" and just be the head of an assault on the machines. I'm hoping we'll see more of the Twins, Persephone and learn who the Merovingian really is, although Lambert Wilson is not listed on the internet movie database in the credits for "Revolutions." This could be an intentional fluke or maybe Persephone is the real villain and her kiss with Neo may have repercussions. If anybody remembers the Matrix superbowl trailer in January you'll recall Trinity's dialogue with a mysterious male voice:
Trinity: "You give me Neo, or we all die right here, right now."
Voice: "Are you ready to die for this man?
Trinity: "Believe it!"
From the teaser it looks as if Morpheus and Trinity with the help of the Oracle's bodyguard Seraph will have to bust into a freaky S& M club to save Neo's ass. I'm willing to bet that the Twins and Persephone subdue the now vulnerable Neo. If not the Merovingian then some new program who can "write" code like him. They don't need kung-fu to take Neo down. Fighting someone like him isn't new to them: "I have survived your predecessors." I even think we'll get to see some of the vampire/supernatural henchman the Oracle mentioned that also appear in the "Enter the Matrix" video game. Either way, time is running out for all of them because the machines are closer to Zion and the Matrix will begin to crash and shut down due to Neo's choice. Their salvation may lie in his sacrificing his life. Remember the Wachowski's have stated that these three films are about birth, life and death. Neo was "born" when he was unplugged and discovered his powers in part one, the citizens of Zion all celebrated "life" in the now infamous "rave" scene in part two and the final battle and sacrifice of Neo may lead to much "death" in part three.
Many have said they think the characters will discover that Neo is a machine or that the real world is part of the Matrix, but I don't think the Wachowski's will use that ploy and cop-out. If that were true and the real world was a simulation, why would the machines send 250,000 sentinels to wipe-out Zion when they could just shut the program down? Neo will probably have to sacrifice himself to keep the program of the Matrix running to save the human race. They can't unplug all of those billions of people yet or maybe ever. Even if the machines are defeated.
It sounds like a lot of hogwash, I know., it really is if you think about it These are movies, its all fiction and is meant for fun. Anyone getting their brain twisted over this stuff needs to chill and take a break. Just remember that these movies are meant to entertain. I'd rather come out of movies like these full of questions and a bit confused than just temporarily satisfied, quickly forgetting what I just saw. If you're full of questions after leaving a good movie like this then its doing its job. The Matrix films may be popcorn movies, but they rank up there with the best of them.
Quote from: MacGuffinIt sounds like a lot of hogwash, I know., it really is if you think about it These are movies, its all fiction and is meant for fun. Anyone getting their brain twisted over this stuff needs to chill and take a break. Just remember that these movies are meant to entertain. I'd rather come out of movies like these full of questions and a bit confused than just temporarily satisfied, quickly forgetting what I just saw. If you're full of questions after leaving a good movie like this then its doing its job. The Matrix films may be popcorn movies, but they rank up there with the best of them.
:yabbse-thumbup:
good read.
Considering this entire thread is basically 80% good and 20% negative I don't see what the problem is if negative things come in, especially since it is more reasonable than some of the things said by people who liked the movie and hated the negative comments. Its why I don't question Sean Penn face to face on whether he is not peaceful enough because I think he will prolly punch me in the face for it. Hyprocrites are everywhere and here I thought I lost credibility with some of you guys by now anyway.........
~rougerum
Quote from: Sigur RósQuote from: XixaxAnyone who says that this film is anything less than phenomenal from a technical standpoint loses all credibility in my book.
I totally agree. But the script is crap! Some of the lines are so stupid, I nearly laughed my head of!
right on man...but as long as you can "wow" 'em with the action the industry can forget some of these horrendous/cheesy/silly lines given to these characters.
Quote from: The Gold Trumpetespecially since it is more reasonable than some of the things said by people who liked the movie and hated the negative comments.
yeah. half my argument for people who don't like this movie is "shut up! you don't know what you're talking about, dick! the matrix is awesome!" what can i say, i enjoyed it thoroughly.
Please read my review at http://outofthevoid.blogspot.com/
Thank you.
Good one.
Yes, swell.
Ah, thanks guys, I appreciate it.
There is no place around me playing it on IMAX. I was thinking of hitting a road trip to Virginia to see it. Has anyone seen it on IMAX and can give me a sense of the moivie on the BIG SCREEN?
Quote from: BankyEdwardsHas anyone seen it on IMAX and can give me a sense of the moivie on the BIG SCREEN?
Quote from: XixaxI saw it for the second time last night, this time in an IMAX theater, and I was once again awed. The sound design, the effects - all of it was simply amazing, and the IMAX transfer was flawless.
I know a lot of you have already spoiled Revolutions for yourselves, so, without spoiling it for me, can you say whether someone who has enjoyed parts 1 and 2 will be very pleased with the way Rev handles everything?
Quote from: tremoloslothI know a lot of you have already spoiled Revolutions for yourselves, so, without spoiling it for me, can you say whether someone who has enjoyed parts 1 and 2 will be very pleased with the way Rev handles everything?
wait...uhh... like what? no one has seen it yet. (....... right? :shock: )
Aren't there more and more spoilers in another thread?
thanks for that post Macguffin, that was a really good read
I don't think anyone's posted this yet
Quentin Tarantino: "I get, like, really bored with it [cgi]. In 'Titanic' it was great but now I just feel like I'm watching a video game. I don't buy it. I think it's lazy and lame. I'm supposed to be impressed because they're doing it with a computer? I'm sorry. I'm not impressed. For 'Kill Bill', we had the cream of the crop of Hong Kong and the cream of the crop of America doing it and I'm here to tell you, that's the cream of the crop! While everybody else was messing around with computers, we were doing it with real human beings! The Matrix Reloaded? I have to say I was disappointed with it. I still liked it but I loved the first one. I saw the first one 12 times, but I can't imagine sitting through the first 20 minutes of Zion ever again! Yeah, I was a little disappointed."
Finally caught it last night at a drive-in; I enjoyed the idea of witnessing this particular cultural moment in a suitably perverse lo-fi venue.
I liked it. It was, indeed, a non-stop thrill ride. I usually don't care for those, because they're so often mindless. This wasn't mindless; in addition to the adrenalin provocations, it had some simple yet honorable and effective metaphysical/intellectual heft to it.
It'll hardly be the Film Event of the Year for me (that honor is so far reserved for bathing in the sacrosanct glow of Morvern Callar), but it surpasses passable.
Quote from: godardian
I liked it. It was, indeed, a non-stop thrill ride. I usually don't care for those, because they're so often mindless. This wasn't mindless; in addition to the adrenalin provocations, it had some simple yet honorable and effective metaphysical/intellectual heft to it.
THANK YOU
I generally agree with Tarantino about CGI, but I think they did a decent enough job with it in Reloaded. It didn't look so terribly phony most of the time, to me.
Quote from: godardianI generally agree with Tarantino about CGI...
well i don't. i still do not see what the big deal is w/ ppl and the first 20 mins. of this movie. the zion parts were so fucking well done, setting the tone and stuff. morpheus and his speech? the sexy sex scene? what is not to like? and quentin with kill bill- bah. we'll see about that. just wait for revolutions, all the haters will be silenced.
The Rumor Mill at Digital Bits reports that The Matrix Reloaded DVD will be released on October 28th.
damn. 6 days AFTER my birthday.
Use yo birthday Gs
Quote from: bonanzatazdamn. 6 days AFTER my birthday.
taz and I are both scorpios.
2 days after mine.
i'm on the cusp of libra and scorpio, i don't know whatchu talkin' bout. if you're two days before me you should be libra.
Quote from: bonanzatazi'm on the cusp of libra and scorpio, i don't know whatchu talkin' bout. if you're two days before me you should be libra.
DVD is released 2 days after my b-day.Nevermind.
well... blah!
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i thinks this might support the thoery that the humans do not survive and ultimatley lose the battle. then again maybe not. how about the Matrix online game that occurs post REV. which automatically means that the Matrix stays.
I hope the Brother and Sister are really just fucking with the fans and REv. is going to blow all of us fucking away.
also
COMIC BOOK SUPER-HEROES UNMASKED -- 9 PM, History Mon
Well, all you historians will no doubt be going into lack-of-Nazis withdrawl for two hours, but this documentary, which treats comics with respect, has nary a Nazi to be found. But it does feature lots of commentary from comics pros like Stan Lee, Kevin Smith and more.
somebody?
Matrix Reloaded is boring, is so far away from the first one
Saw it in IMAX today, I must say it was quite an experience. The details that come through are amazing, and the soundtrack makes it feel like the bullets are whipping past you. The shots of Neo flying really make it feel like 3-D. But the drawback is that it might have been too big. Some of the close-ups, especially in the fighting scenes, are blown up so big that they become an extreme close-up that make you wonder what you are looking at for a bit. At the same time, you really see facial 'flaws' on the actors, even drawing attention to Keanu's earring hole. (Seeing Monica Bellucci that large, on the other hand...mmmmmm). The strange thing is that the burly brawl seems much more believable, and doesn't bring out the computerness of the Agent Smiths and Neo. Go figure. In a way, I'm glad it wasn't my first time seeing it, but I am glad I didn't pass up the chance to experence it on IMAX because I saw new things I don't I would have before.
i wish we went togetha mac. we could'of had fun.
i still stand tall in sayin that reloaded is badass, too badass for words. all the haters are gay. neo vs. all the agents, architecture, the rave zion party dance, flying to save ur girl, a highway chase scene to end all highway chase scenes- now dats a movie folks.
Quotei still stand tall in sayin that reloaded is badass, too badass for words. all the haters are gay. neo vs. all the agents, architecture, the rave zion party dance, flying to save ur girl, a highway chase scene to end all highway chase scenes- now dats a movie folks.
its all style and no substance, thats not a good movie....
i hope to god you dont become a filmmaker, becuz if some of you people do, your gonna produce some terrible shit...
chris
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooits all style and no substance, thats not a good movie....
i hope to god you dont become a filmmaker, becuz if some of you people do, your gonna produce some terrible shit...
chris
wow, what an asshole.
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooi hope to god you dont become a filmmaker, becuz if some of you people do, your gonna produce some terrible shit...
I wouldn't want you to see my films anyway.
cbrad, I'll be first in line for yours.
Morpheus: These people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: Thecowgoooesmoooi hope to god you dont become a filmmaker, becuz if some of you people do, your gonna produce some terrible shit...
I wouldn't want you to see my films anyway.
cbrad, I'll be first in line for yours.
Morpheus: These people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
mac=man.
p=keeps it real
coweatsadick= just made ©brad's shitlist
QuoteI wouldn't want you to see my films anyway.
cbrad, I'll be first in line for yours.
Morpheus: These people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.
Quotemac=man.
p=keeps it real
coweatsadick= just made ©brad's shitlist
aww you guys are forum buddies... how cute. i can see a 3 way on the horizon
anyways, i cant believe you fools are defending this shit movie
chris
and plz give me some more matrix quotes to support your statements, those are just great
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooaww you guys are forum buddies...
Not a surprise that you don't have any, especially with an avatar showing how you think of us: Me - You Guys.
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooanyways, i cant believe you fools are defending this shit movie
It's not necessarily defending the movie. I just think it's pretty narrow minded to think that just because someone else likes a movie that you call 'shit', that based on that opinion, you think that will be their main influence and that their creative direction will follow that same path. And just because you like films with have substance (The Matrix movies do, but that's another argument), you will make better films than us and, thus, be better than us. How will others see the screen with your big head blocking it?
Quote from: Thecowgoooesmoooand plz give me some more matrix quotes to support your statements, those are just great
Neo: How 'bout I give you the finger...
Cow, stop your ridiculous arguing. You're debating and discussing nothing. Your reasons and logic are as narrow as what you claim The Matrix to have. You're just going to get stomped on for this one. Difference of opinion and taste is what makes a discussion board a discussion board.
~rougerum
couldn't have said it better me-self mac.
cowboy do me a favor and try not to post in any thread i post in. thanks.
Quote from: Cmte de Saint GermainCow, stop your ridiculous arguing. You're debating and discussing nothing. Your reasons and logic are as narrow as what you claim The Matrix to have. You're just going to get stomped on for this one. Difference of opinion and taste is what makes a discussion board a discussion board.
~rougerum
high five gt.
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who woulda thought we'd be high fivin. or is that post kinda directed at me too?
Quote from: ©brador is that post kinda directed at me too?
Not really. Cow started an argument with condescending words and is trying to continue it. You do say things like everyone that hates it is "gay" and such. I don't agree with that level of talk in how you see other people who didn't like it, but you weren't starting arguments. I just wish that you would see someone like me who didn't like the film still thinks it is great you want to rave on and on about how great the movie was. Maybe assholes did say bad things about in a dumb manner, but I'm trying not to. And anyways, you seemed pretty cool about everything overall anyways.
~rougerum
Now this was a great experiment to see who all the protective bitches are here.. Let me explain...
Quotei still stand tall in sayin that reloaded is badass, too badass for words. all the haters are gay. neo vs. all the agents, architecture, the rave zion party dance, flying to save ur girl, a highway chase scene to end all highway chase scenes- now dats a movie folks.
Hmmm. So, all the people who don't like the matrix are gay... And the matrix 2 is toooo badass for words... Lol. Now thats pretty fuckin outrageous.
So I decided to make my own outrageous statement...
Quoteits all style and no substance, thats not a good movie....
i hope to god you dont become a filmmaker, becuz if some of you people do, your gonna produce some terrible shit...
chris
Now, the matrix 2 being style over substance is true in my opinion.
QuoteCow, stop your ridiculous arguing. You're debating and discussing nothing. Your reasons and logic are as narrow as what you claim The Matrix to have.
I haven't even given you my reasons and logics of why the Matrix 2 is shit. If you'd like though, we can get into that. But thats a totally different subject.
Now, my second statement, yes I'll agree that it was outrageous, and it may not hold true for most of you in here, but hey, it's just as ridiculous as cBrad's statements. Which makes this extremely ironic seeing that this thread is filled with cBrad's ridiculous comments. I mean seriously, if you'd like I can search through these pages and quote all of em for ya.
Sit down hypocrite! Sit down bitch!
Quotecowboy do me a favor and try not to post in any thread i post in. thanks.
Lol nope, sorry, still not cool yet. Ill continue posting.
chris
QuoteYou're just going to get stomped on for this one. Difference of opinion and taste is what makes a discussion board a discussion board.
Hmmm you know... Thats a good point. Difference of opinion and taste is what makes a discussion board a discussion board. .....
Then why in the fuck are you complaining!!?!? Let's have a difference of opinion.
Cow, read up above at my last post and see criticism brought against CBR for his posts. Thing is, a fight was started with yours against someone else and you continued to argue that in your tone of getting back at someone who was being arrogant. The person you argued with was fine in his opinions and ideas of The Matrix. Why even argue on the level of a condescending attitude with him if those words were for another?
This isn't a difference of opinion thing, though. You began to speak in words of attack mode that had nothing to do with opinion. It was all just marked in arrogance and "I'm better than you." When you get off that and begin constructively discussing the film, you can actually get somewhere in having a difference of opinion.
~rougerum
HEY! no arguing with the higher ups is allowed!
Anyone have anything to say about the Matrix cause thats why i come here to post
Quote from: BankyAnyone have anything to say about the Matrix cause thats why i come here to post
Okay, some things I noticed on this last viewing:
The TV sets in the Architect's room look like the TV screens watching Neo when he is captured by the Agents in the first "Matrix".
After the meeting with the Merovingian, one of the Twins blows a kiss to Trinity before the elevator doors close. Did he know that Persphone was going to ask for a kiss from Neo, and was teasing Trinity about it?
At the end, Neo knows that the Sentinels are preparing a bomb. A precursor to him "feeling" the machines?
Quote from: MacGuffinQuote from: BankyAnyone have anything to say about the Matrix cause thats why i come here to post
Okay, some things I noticed on this last viewing:
The TV sets in the Architect's room look like the TV screens watching Neo when he is captured by the Agents in the first "Matrix".
You beautiful genius, you! You're 100% correct. When it zooms "through" the screen, right? Wow.
Is it November yet?
i dont mean to start a poll or anything and maybe this deserves its own thread intirely, but who thinks that Revolutions will live up to its expectations and make you understand while Reloaded may have lacked in some areas of plot?
I personally feel like it will. The "siblings" had ample time and money to carefully cunstruct this sereis. With their craft of story telling truly coming trough in the Matrix, than i would have to beleive that Revolutions is going to blow everyone away and truly put all the negative criticism for Reloaded to rest. Maybe this is wishfull thinking, or maybe its an unrealistic expectation. But for me.............................................................................................................................without hope you have nothing
I don't have too much faith in the last movie. If you read about the evolution of the original Matrix script, you see that it was really crappy when the Bros first approached the studios with it. It was the third version that finally made it to the theaters. When I watch Reloaded, I got the feeling that this was the first unpolished version that the Bros came up with again, except there was no one above them to tell them to polish it. I think the same will be true for the final movie.
There's glimpses of genius in Reloaded, but it could have been so much more.
QuoteIf you read about the evolution of the original Matrix script, you see that it was really crappy when the Bros first approached the studios with it. It was the third version that finally made it to the theaters.
You've got to be kidding me! It's essentially the same damn thing, save for a few changes. Look at the original script for 'Sydney' and the things that were deleted from there (the neverending 'crap speech,' the flashbacks, and original ending) and rewritten. It would have hindered the film IMO, so I guess Paul doesn't know what he's doing either.
Judge the finished product, not the blueprints.
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I guarantee that retard can act better then Reeves.
I still wonder why they picked Keanu Reeves over William....
Keanu isn't THAT bad you guys
Yeah he is.
Quote from: tremoloslothKeanu isn't THAT bad you guys
I think Keanu is perfect for this role, I read that Will Smith turned it down in order to make Wild Wild West (can you believe that?!), and also was turned down by Ewan McGregor.
As far as Reloaded, I'm on the 'It couldn't be better' side, I just loved it and have the highest hopes for Revolutions.
Ditto. I have no love for Keanu in any role (save maybe for Speed, goddamnit if that movie ain't entertaining), but still can't think of anyone else for the role of Neo. He owns it, top to bottom.
Hate 'Reloaded' all you like, but can you honestly tell me that 'The Hulk' or 'CA2' or any other crap provided as many thrills or questions this summer?
Revoultions is gonna rock the casbah, beware.
Keanu is perfect for Neo. It requires him to be a super hero, not specifically some great bullshit actor. Keanu has the look and charisma that is required of this role and seeing Keanu in the outfit and shades achieves the effect he is of a believable super hero that will fuck you over if you touch him.
~rougerum
Quote from: Weak2ndAct
Hate 'Reloaded' all you like, but can you honestly tell me that 'The Hulk' or 'CA2' or any other crap provided as many thrills or questions this summer?
Thrills, no. Questions, absolutely.
The Matrix Reloaded Hits DVD on October 14
Source: Variety
Warner Home Video will release The Matrix Reloaded on DVD this October 14, three weeks before the third and final chapter in the trilogy, The Matrix Revolutions, is released in theaters.
The initial two-disc DVD will be loaded with extra features. The timing of the DVD release is designed to allow fans to see the movie again just before the third installment arrives in theaters.
The marketing for the "Reloaded" DVD will cross-promote the "Revolutions" theatrical release and Warner will promote the DVD in theaters showing "Revolutions."
Stay tuned tomorrow morning for the complete list of features that will be on the discs!
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hooray! now i can get it for my birthday!
i love threads with happy endings..
I still think a perfect Neo woulda been John Cusack. He's trained in kickboxing forever with world champion Benny the Jet Urquidze (the white dude who pounded Jackie Chan in Wheels on Meals and Dragons Forever), he can throw that "what?" look better than Keanu, and he can read.
Warner Home Video is today officially announcing the release of The Matrix: Reloaded on October 14th (SRP $29.95). The disc will be available in both anamorphic widescreen and full frame versions. Interestingly, early press information indicates that the disc will be available in an Amaray keep case rather than the typical Snapper packaging Warner is so fond of. Audio on the DVD will be available in English and French Dolby Digital 5.1 and English 2.0 Dolby Surround. Extras will include numerous documentary featurettes, including Preload (behind-the-scenes with the cast and crew), The Freeway Chase (a look at the making of the complex stunt sequence), Enter the Matrix (behind-the-scenes on the new videogame), What is the Amimatrix? (a promo for the animated companion DVD), The Matrix Unfolds (a look at the film "phenomenon") and Get Me an Exit (a look at design advertising inspired by the film), as well as DVD-ROM weblinks to the official site and the MTV Movie Awards spoof video. There may also be additional features TBA. Here's the final cover art for the disc:
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Does this look like a Ghostbusters-worthy ghost to anyone else?
aw
Ahem... I'll wait for the box set. Hopefully they will include EVERYTHING. Like, Revisited, and the Animatrix stuff, besides the movies.
I'm also reserving my purchase of the LOTR DVDs... just in case something special happens when they release all 3.
I'm also reserving my purchase of the LOTR DVDs... just in case something special happens when they release all 3.[/quote]
I heard that they wouldnt be re-releasing the films when TRotK comes to dvd in a set, so the extended editions would be the final releases of the films, but we all know how that goes.
I absolutely loved Reloaded! :-D
Whilst it maybe lacked the initial awe of the first film, it's scope was on a par with it.
I think what threw most people was that it went off in a completely different direction as to what they had expected. Instead, we're taken inside the workings of the Matrix itself and presented with a "messiah" figure who doubts his own abilities.
Top stuff, and I can't wait for Revolutions! 8)
yeah im going to drive two hours to go see Reloaded Imax. Hope its a good transfer.
The IMAX transfer is spectacular (the sound rocks too). To quote my cousin: "It's so damn huge-- when Trinity does the splits, you see camel-toe." Now THAT'S an endorsement. :roll:
yeah i saw it last night. It was really good. Man that movie is intense. I go back and forth with it a lot.
a nice little interpretation of the immense symbolism in Reloaded that agrees with my Garden of Eden theory here (http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html).
After musing over some more Reloaded boards, I noticed something quite amazing. I haven't seen this discussed yet, and there's nothing to debunk, really... it's just an observation...
First, the monitors in the Architect scene, I think we can argue that those are possibilities/predictions of the current Neo, not previous recordings or whatever of the 5 previous Neos. And I think we can also argue that there is no Matrix-within-a-Matrix; that Zion is Zion and the real world is the real world, if they say so.
That being said... think back to the conclusion of the Architect scene, when Neo walks to the door that will allow him to save Trinity. Notice that all the monitors show the exact same thing happening (that is, Neo walking to the door). It's like, after displaying the "lives at stake" within the Matrix, they switched to some real-time mode... at least, that is how I took it.
However, what if this isn't a real-time depiction of the current Neo, but an inevitable possibility/prediction calculated by the Matrix? If this is what these monitors have been presenting all through the sequence, why would it change at this point? And there was already a precedent for an ultimate, inevitable prediction: when Neo calls "Bullshit!" on all the monitors, in perfect unison. This blows my mind... I mean, more so than any Matrix theory I've read since Reloaded came out. It could have tremendous significance towards figuring out where this is all going.
My biggest concern is that maybe, somehow, the Brothers misjudged where Reloaded would leave the audience, and they aren't going to address the questions that everyone has raised over the past 6 months... but it won't be long now until we know for sure... :-D
k, i just saw this movie again on dvd. i remember posting on this thread saying that i thought this was an ok film. what the fuck was i thinking??? seeing it a second time really opened my eyes. sorry, but i really don't see what all the fuss is. it is better then the first one though (not action-wise ofcourse), which had such terrible acting and almost laughably pathetic dialogue. anyway, maybe i just don't see it the same way everyone else does... ? .... or maybe just not my cup o' tea.
Quote from: markums2kAhem... I'll wait for the box set. Hopefully they will include EVERYTHING. Like, Revisited, and the Animatrix stuff, besides the movies.
Has there even been word of a box set? I'm gonna hold off buying Reloaded for the time being just in case.
ok.. sounds.. lovely.. :multi: :onfire:
Quote from: DirkQuote from: markums2kAhem... I'll wait for the box set. Hopefully they will include EVERYTHING. Like, Revisited, and the Animatrix stuff, besides the movies.
Has there even been word of a box set? I'm gonna hold off buying Reloaded for the time being just in case.
I have seen no official announcements, but if AOL Time Warner doesn't issue a box set of this, they should be shot in the fucking head.
Quote from: horrorchick76blah blah blah
Quote from: markums2k... should be shot in the fucking head.
They will only bring out the box set after the 3rd film. And of course they will bring it out, they aren't stupid...I think.
Best Buy will sell "Reloaded" for $14.99 and it includes a bonus DVD with 30 more minutes of behind-the-scenes content.
And giving away Matrix swag too! Matrix geeks rejoice!
Quote from: MacGuffinBest Buy will sell "Reloaded" for $14.99 and it includes a bonus DVD with 30 more minutes of behind-the-scenes content.
But by the time I get there, the sale will have ended. Damn Best Buy.
With LotR they most likely will release every DVd seperately, then special editions for each, then a box set of the 3 bare bones and maybe a special "Making Of" DVD with them all. That's my prediction on that.
With Matrix, I smell a box set with Matrix, Matrix Reloaded, Matrix Revolutions, all of them with respective special shit. Then, they'll wait a long time (like with Alien) and release a Trilogy with Revisited and Animatrix and maybe a screenplay version or some more Making Of shit.
I can't wait that long for a set, so I'm buying reloaded and Revolutions as they are (or will be in the case of Revolutions).
Holy God. I went to Best Buy for their midnight Matrix extravaganza in LA (the ad promised free t-shirts and prizes) and was appalled to find at 10:30PM, there was already a line around the building. I haven't seen this madness since Star Wars (though I suspect it's b/c it was the only store advertising it). Ended up standing in line forever, didn't get into the store 'till 12:45AM. Yes, I like Reloaded this much.
Whether or not I buy Reloaded depends on how much I like Revolutions.
Holy crap!
October 16, 2003 — According to The Hollywood Reporter, The Matrix Reloaded has sold four million copies on DVD/video. The video/DVD were released on Tuesday. No records were broken, but retailers were nevertheless happy with sales.
I read that if you have The Matrix, The Matrix Revealed(i think thats what its called), and Animatrix, then theres really no need to bother with the special bonus disc at BB, some of the same stuff is already on it.
Quote from: GhostboyWhether or not I buy Reloaded depends on how much I like Revolutions.
buy it dude. transfer is amazing, as is the sound. plus, the bonus dvd gives a good insight as to how they did all the shit, esp. the chase sequence. (i was surprised to learn how much of it was actually done on the highway, and in particular, how much driving carrie-anne moss actually did!)
Quote from: Weak2ndActHoly God. I went to Best Buy for their midnight Matrix extravaganza in LA (the ad promised free t-shirts and prizes) and was appalled to find at 10:30PM, there was already a line around the building. I haven't seen this madness since Star Wars (though I suspect it's b/c it was the only store advertising it). Ended up standing in line forever, didn't get into the store 'till 12:45AM. Yes, I like Reloaded this much.
what was going on now? there was a line just to buy the dvd?
Quote from: FernandoHoly crap!
October 16, 2003 — According to The Hollywood Reporter, The Matrix Reloaded has sold four million copies on DVD/video. The video/DVD were released on Tuesday. No records were broken, but retailers were nevertheless happy with sales.
what's 4 million times $15?
like 60 million
Quote from: ©bradwhat was going on now? there was a line just to buy the dvd?
Yep, this was just to but the dvd and other matrix stuff. That's it, the rest of the store was closed off.
Quote from: FernandoHoly crap!
October 16, 2003 — According to The Hollywood Reporter, The Matrix Reloaded has sold four million copies on DVD/video. The video/DVD were released on Tuesday. No records were broken, but retailers were nevertheless happy with sales.
No records were broken?
Does anyone know the record?
so let me see if i got this straight.
total production costs of both movies: 300 million (roughly, and i don't think this includes marketing costs, which for both movies would probably be close to another 75 mil)
total gross of reloaded in theaters (including international grosses) $700 mil.
dvd sales in the past few days: $60 million
video/dvd rentals: ?
revolutions gross: to be determined, although i would imagine it would be atleast $700, seeing as how the majority of ppl who saw reloadeed would no doubt see revolutions. also, if it follows the trend of the lord of the rings, revolutions will make even more money. two towers made a lot more than the fellowship of the ring b/c ppl who didn't see fellowship in the theaters saw it on video and went to see two towers.
i said god damn that's a lot of $$!
Quote from: ©bradi said god damn that's a lot of $$!
Yeah, and the strange part is that the movie is considered a *failure* by a lot of people (no, I'm not talking if it's good/bad, I'm talking finanical expectations). The original grossed what-- like $130 million? I don't know what these people where expecting. It's R-Rated and over 2 and a half hours.
Even Village Roadshow is claiming financial woes-- depsite the fact they're already into deep profit from Reloaded! Whatever Revolutions makes is almost totally 100 profit. This makes no sense to me.
But Village Roadshow also financed Dreamcatcher and The Adventures Of Pluto Nash, among other. A couple of 100 million pics that don't even recoup the marketing expenditures can be tough to handle.
Quote from: Weak2ndAct
Yeah, and the strange part is that the movie is considered a *failure* by a lot of people (no, I'm not talking if it's good/bad, I'm talking finanical expectations). The original grossed what-- like $130 million?
It surprises me as well; the first one did gross $171,479,930.
Quote from: Weak2ndActI don't know what these people where expecting. It's R-Rated and over 2 and a half hours.
Exactly. The thing is that it grossed so fast 200m that some people thought it could make easily 500m.
So i rented this recently and upon second viewing i enjoyed it more. The one thing that was a surprise was how quickly the dance number went by, when i saw this in the theater it felt like 10 minutes but i clocked it and it was only 3 minutes, well actually that whole chapter was about 3 minutes. I also noticed this time around how almost everyone says to Neo "well your predecessors blah blah." i didnt catch that the first time, and seeing how the Architect tells him about neo being the 6th go around its interesting how a lot of people know about this and point this out to Neo.
What sucked about the 2-disc set was how crappy the extras were, what a waste, mostly fulff stuff that i had already seen in interviews and what not. oh well.
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Please.
Let this thread die. This movie was an unwatchable bore. Bad acting. Bad writing. Overused, uneffective CGI. Let it go, fellas.
Quote from: mutinycoLet this thread die. This movie was an unwatchable bore. Bad acting. Bad writing. Overused, uneffective CGI. Let it go, fellas.
Mutinyco, that was the wrong thing to say.
Quote from: FernandoQuote from: mutinycoLet this thread die. This movie was an unwatchable bore. Bad acting. Bad writing. Overused, uneffective CGI. Let it go, fellas.
Mutinyco, that was the wrong thing to say.
I don't know about that, Fernando. I always thought I liked the movie until he said I didn't
Quote from: tremoloslothQuote from: FernandoQuote from: mutinycoLet this thread die. This movie was an unwatchable bore. Bad acting. Bad writing. Overused, uneffective CGI. Let it go, fellas.
Mutinyco, that was the wrong thing to say.
I don't know about that, Fernando. I always thought I liked the movie until he said I didn't
hah. reminds me of this.
Quote from: pointlesswasteoftime.comNow what am I supposed to think? After all, with less than three months until the opening of the third film I'm still desperately researching whether or not I liked the second one. The data seems strong on both sides. What's worse is that I suspect that I really liked Reloaded, but reading the essays written on the subject at Ain't-it-Cool news I'm trying to calculate just how much this reduces my value as a human being. Quote:
"i was watching that pile of crap and kept looking at my watch. I was with 5 other people and 2 of them fell asleep. reoloaded sucked.........."
-Darth Phallus
I cannot dismiss this argument, and not only because the commentator in question is apparently part of a family of narcoleptics and, in fact, seems to have nodded off on the keyboard at the end of his sentence. After all, I already knew that there were world-renowned film theorists who despised Reloaded. But these new comments are coming from the fans, so enfilled with rage that English words can only express it with special modified spelling:
"Yeah, Honkey Solo, I lick his ass, oh wait no, thats your moms ass I'm liking, and my big "two towers" cock shes sucking, gotta love the 69. by the way, Return of the King is gonna own you little starwars fagets."
-Tom Bombadildo
i cant think of anything clever to say but uhhh........
i dont agree with fernando
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got this from a video store that was about to toss it.
its one big multidimensional stand up
now u'll never feel alone.
Quote from: pointlesswasteoftime.com"Yeah, Honkey Solo, I lick his ass, oh wait no, thats your moms ass I'm liking, and my big "two towers" cock shes sucking, gotta love the 69. by the way, Return of the King is gonna own you little starwars fagets."
True literary genius here. Watch out for this guy's new novel:
Everything I Ever Needed To Know...I Didn't.