do you just start scripting without preparation (eg character profiles, narrative scaffold, etc), or do you take each conventional step?
The one I'm on right now, I went and make character profiles and an outline and everything... next time, however, I think I'm just gonna take PT's advise and start to people talking in a coffee shop and see where it takes me.
for me, it depends on what i'm writing. don't ever let anyone tell you that you must or musn't write plot maps/character profiles. do what helps you
usually i just write and write and write, and then go back and start reading again until i find something i want to change, and then change the rest accordingly, and just keep going over it
that sometimes means i might have to change the story entierly, but that's what works for me
I've never done any preparation, for better or for worse -- I just have an idea and then I start writing and see where it goes. With most of my scripts, the ending comes to me first, but I always start at the beginning. Writing the beginning is the easiest part, and then from there I just try to head in a direction that is a.) natural and b.) possibly going to end up at my original idea for the ending. Usually, I end up somewhere completely different, but it's usually better that way.
i just start writing, then i stop for a while without reading it, and i modify everything in my head (also taking notes, doing outlines, etc) then i go back and i modify my first draft with all of that stuff, then about three drafts later i am done. well, i'm never really done, i always go back to my "finished" scripts and nitpick even the smallest things, be it a word here or a word there, or add or detract.
last night i went to work on my screenplay (i'm about 83 pages into it) and the fucking computer wouldn't open it, ive tried it on several computers and they won't open it either. its on a disk, and every other document on the fuckin disk will open except that one, so now i have to start all over. im pretty strung out.
Quote from: ewardlast night i went to work on my screenplay (i'm about 83 pages into it) and the fucking computer wouldn't open it, ive tried it on several computers and they won't open it either. its on a disk, and every other document on the fuckin disk will open except that one, so now i have to start all over. im pretty strung out.
im sorry to hear that. but cheer up, cause im sure that what youll write from memory will be better, since youll only remember the most important/best parts. isnt that what hitchcock (or tarantino) did when adapting books? they didnt consult the book when writing the first draft?
My approach is to start something, only to be distracted by college, and then start something new, etc.
I like to start a journal for each separate screenplay and start by brainstorming. Ideas for story, character, shots, dialogue; no matter how big or small. Details I want to get across; questions I need to answer to get the plot across. Pages of listing just random thoughts related to this particular story. After I feel I have enough to start (the ideas will never stop during the writing), for me it's just like connect the dots. Never been one to do the whole note card thing. I usually find the structure linking the ideas together. I like to write out the first draft long hand (deleting on a computer equals lost forever, plus I'm a poor typist).
i keep a few loose note cards in my pocket at all times...if i see something during the course of my day that i think might be good, i write it down. it may be an incident, or a character sketch from a guy i saw walking down the street, or just a scene that really touched me. when i get home i toss the card into a card catalog box and try to forget it. whenever i have writers block, i begin at the front of the box and just read each card...sometimes these random ideas, read in a series, will spark another idea which i write down and add to the box. when i'm done i shuffle the cards and will repeat. few of these ideas ever take off by themselves but they often trigger other, completely unrelated, ideas. these tend to be the best ideas i come up with.
i began this experiment by writing down my most vivid memories, no matter how insignificant. they turned out to be the high and low points in my life....both sides of the emotional spectrum. i also found that i had a lot of cards with moments that i knew were important, but i didn't know why.
i have never used the note card technique to layout a script...i prefer to just write one lined sentences down a page so i can see the progression all at once.
For me it depends entirely on what I am doing. If I am writing something that I know I will be writing for over, say, six months, I will probably have a heap of things floating around the place in folders and such. Sometimes I just write cold based on one image, or line of dialogue, or character, or idea [my novel, which I never completed and will probably wind up adaptating for screen, was written entirely out of the line, "Imagine life in the tic tac factory."]
The piece I am writing now came out of the sole idea that I wanted to make a film noir. Then that became a quest for the right story, and that became a quest for structure, and imagery, and plot twists and turns, and then ultimately it became less about a noir and more about a guy returning to his home after having left it six years earlier, and experiencing the changes and the like. The only thing I ever wrote down off the computer for that was on a napkin at my grandmother's 80th birthday party, a very simple timeline, that I have since lost. It is all in my head, and has been for about eight or nine months now.
Quote from: RegularKarateThe one I'm on right now, I went and make character profiles and an outline and everything... next time, however, I think I'm just gonna take PT's advise and start to people talking in a coffee shop and see where it takes me.
This is the method I'm most comfortable with. And I also, when starting out, try to mimick a movie or movies that I'd seen recently (right now I'm working on something inspired by Hard Eight)...Another thing that helps is imagining actors and actresses that I really admire (in the case of this script, it's Morgan Freeman and Asia Argento-not taking her clothes off!!! lol--in a sort of noirish tale of revenge and paternal love....)
Does that make any sense? Do any of you find it useful?
QuoteAnd I also, when starting out, try to mimick a movie or movies that I'd seen recently.
Call me crazy, but that sounds so dangerous in terms of you never being even nearly remotely original.
I usually start out by writing a scene with 2 or more characters. I'll be writing it until the scene turns out to be something that I wasn't expecting it to be, I love it when that happens. I'll then look at it and see if it has any possibilities to go anywhere. Then I'll start thinking about a premise, other possible scenes, anything that can help me get the ball rolling.
Quote from: The Silver BulletQuoteAnd I also, when starting out, try to mimick a movie or movies that I'd seen recently.
Call me crazy, but that sounds so dangerous in terms of you never being even nearly remotely original.
Hey buddy, I'm not saying copy word for word or use the same characters; but it always helps when I have something to give me a little direction...and I hate to use cliches, but this one is so useful--art is derivative. Also, if you listen to director's commentaries, you'll hear writers and directors say where they got ideas for scenes or what movies
influenced them (i.e. P.T. Anderson said he stole the "Spill the Wine" pool scene from a movie called "I Am Cuba"...)
Anything else? :)
QuoteAnd I also, when starting out, try to mimick a movie or movies that I'd seen recently.
Sometimes I'm the same way, a movie will hit me and inspire me to do something in the style or in the theme, currently I am writing an anime style live action flick, my inspiration was going to see Cowboy BeBop the Movie.
I'm not a huge anime beast, I like it, I like what the do with story in an animated film, so I decided to write a story based live action - scifi action flick. But then again I was a huge fan of Joss Whedon's Firefly, so it owes a little something to that as well.
I spent a year playing poker for a living and when I saw Hard Eight (Sydney) I was struck by how realistic it was to the world it was set in, and it inspired me to write about the stories I heard at the tables, and the experiences I was actually involved in, so I have three gambling themed scripts all stemming from incidents I was told, or was part of, and all of them owe a debt to Hard Eight for spurring me to pen them.
So being inspired to do original work is great, as long as you keep your own ideas and nurture them, from wherever they may have spawned.
I don't heavily outline at all. Usually just a half-page synopsis and a few sentences describing all the main characters. Then I start writing, and I constantly rewrite while I'm writing. I'll go back over everything I've written and change things to better fit the overall script. At the end, with luck, I end up with what's technically a first draft, but doesn't need a lot of revision from that point.
QuoteAnything else?
I love the way you think I was attacking you. So very pathetic of you. I bet you take this as an attack too.
Anyway, what I was saying was that sure, when you write, your sources of inspiration seep in and make the thing richer, but
starting out with another piece of work in mind? I stand by what I said before. To each his own, yes, but it really seems to me as though that could be a pretty dangerous way of starting out.
Of course other works are going to play a role as you write something, but the idea of starting something because of something you read or saw? Okay...
Quote from: The Silver BulletQuoteAnything else?
I love the way you think I was attacking you. So very pathetic of you. I bet you take this as an attack too.
Anyway, what I was saying was that sure, when you write, your sources of inspiration seep in and make the thing richer, but starting out with another piece of work in mind? I stand by what I said before. To each his own, yes, but it really seems to me as though that could be a pretty dangerous way of starting out.
Of course other works are going to play a role as you write something, but the idea of starting something because of something you read or saw? Okay...
Nah... it's like when I write songs, sometimes a hear a song and think "I should write something like that!" But then I'm not quite good enough at copying and I just end up with something original anyway. Originality is just copying without the talent to do it well.
For the sake of avoiding confusion, that last bit was a joke.
Quote from: ewardlast night i went to work on my screenplay (i'm about 83 pages into it) and the fucking computer wouldn't open it, ive tried it on several computers and they won't open it either. its on a disk, and every other document on the fuckin disk will open except that one, so now i have to start all over. im pretty strung out.
didn't that happen to the chick from superman when she was writing her autobiography and she went insane and started wandering the streets offering to give out sexual favors?
I have a notebook that I carry with me everywhere and I jot down little notes. I read some of a diary Spike Lee was writing when he was writing Do the Right Thing, I think I will go with that. Start a diary so I can read over my thought process for my ideas.
I haven't yet started a script, I have lots of ideas for motifs, shots, etc...everything but a storyline. It really is unfortunate. Any suggestions?
I'm the kind of guy who starts with the most important thing and work my self into the smaller bits...
So I start with character. I find the "Excel-approach" fucking boring, you know when you write the characters name and their traits under it like a fucking list. People aren't lists...well we are but with an extra level to it if you know what I mean... :-D
My approach is this: I write a letter to "whomever" from the character. That way I get to express myself as the character and it's more fun. It's a fun and very useful technique to come up with a character. It's kind of like the PTA-technique when he get two people talking...well not really, I mean the letter isn't the start of a film, just to help develope character.
I'm not really sure how to end this but I guess my advice is write a letter to your grandma from a piano playing child molester and see how she reacts.
Chris
my grandma took it surprisingly well
I always liked the idea of first thinking of a pretty simple story that can at least intrigue the reader with few ideas of meaning behind it. Then I like to work on each individual part; weighing it to see how much I can put into it that would be interesting and was also right for the story. Then I move to the next part and so on. When done with that, I then look over the entire thing and keep on reshaping it a little so it can fit the mold of an overall work better and maybe see how I can make the work more ambiguous so the original ideas aren't observable as being pressed down upon on the reader.
~rougerum
I love this thread...keep it going...
17 replies and 800 registered users. Are we less than 20 people here who actually write?
C'mon...reply you idle users.
I particularly like MacGuffin's approach whereby you almost create a collage of inter-associated ideas and concepts that all fall under the header of your screenplay. The two greatest tools that I have yet to take advantage of but that have helped countless thinkers, inventors, writers or directors is to carry around a notebook and a camera. Whenever you have a particularly profound idea or notion, write it down. If you see a piece of life unfolding that is particularly passionate, take a picture. I can't even begin to fathom the amount of original ideas/concepts/events I have logged somewhere in the recesses of my subconcsious that I can no longer reference without the aid of some serious psychotropics.
In terms of what I do as a writer, I normally get drunk and lie down in bed reworking the days events in my head. Once I come to the foregone epiphany on some aspect of life I use it as my catalyst for my screenplay. Then it is simply linear deconstruction from there. You have Point B, now create Point A and Point C. For me I always find an innovative concept or event or even a unique character who is somewhere in the middle of the tension, then I just have to create a backdrop and a nifty denouement. Pretty bizarre undoubtedly, but I will live and die by this method.
My problem is that journalism is my "day job" and screenwriting is just my often-neglected hobby.
Fifteen years of working at newspapers has put me into a mode wherein I can only write my best stories or columns when I'm under the pressure of deadline.
With screenwriting, I never have deadlines. And I'm no good at self-imposed ones. So, unfortunately, stuff tends to linger sometimes and get stale.
In other words, I have yet to find my rhythm of writing with his "hobby."
My method is very piecemeal (sp? sorry)...I'll overhear a conversation, or witness something taking place near me, and I'll write it down in the hopes of using it later...I also have a strange way of integrating aspects of myself (be it a certain mood on a particular day, a desire I have at the moment, or conversations I have with others) that sometimes find their way into my writing...when I actually sit down to write something, I often find the characters talking to each other and I just sort of let them do their own thing...very rarely do I have any preconceived notions of where a story will go, because ultimately the character will take me where he/she wants to go and I'm just along for the ride. Granted, 99% of the time it's total shit and very rarely do I keep what I've written because my personal embarassment is so damned strong I can't bear to look at it again.
this has nothing to do with screenwriting, but chainsmoking insomniac, where oh where did you get that avatar?
Behold the power of almighty Google my friend.
thank you, sir.
One thing that helps me is, I act out all my dialogue to myself, to make sure it sounds good when actually spoken. I hate giving awkward lines to actors. Like, whenever I hear a bad line in a movie, I always think, how could they make them say that??
As far as process, I work all the details out in my head. A lot of my really great ideas usually come from researching topics for a different idea. Research itself is also very enjoyable to me. I enjoy working out the logic behind events in a script, or why certain characters act a certain way.
Quote from: markums2kI hate giving awkward lines to actors. Like, whenever I hear a bad line in a movie, I always think, how could they make them say that??
Bad sounding lines are often expository lines, They are necessary and hard to write. I'm not excusing bad dialogue but it's harder...but I guess you already know this...
on the other hand, really good, really complex dialogue is very hard for actors to say as well...
Obviously, there is no definitive guide to 'Good Dialogue'. But c'mon guys. I shouldn't really have to explain it. You guys aren't about to DEFEND bad dialogue, are you?
SoNowThen, are you referring to the 'other' extreme? The overly-articulate, wordy, Thesaurus speak? As far as I'm concerned, it's the same thing. Bad is bad, no matter how it ends up that way.
EDIT: Nevermind, SoNowThen, I think I understand what you mean.
just in case:
no, I mean like amazing Mamet Dialogue. Ever hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.
Great dialogue requires beats and pacing and proper enunciation, etc. It can't just be spoken by anyone.
I can't read any of my dialogue out loud, yet if I get a decent actor to look at it, they can usually make it sing. And they say it's one of my stronger writing talents. Yet it sounds horrid coming from my own mouth...
Quote from: SoNowThenjust in case:
no, I mean like amazing Mamet Dialogue. Ever hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.
Great dialogue requires beats and pacing and proper enunciation, etc. It can't just be spoken by anyone.
I can't read any of my dialogue out loud, yet if I get a decent actor to look at it, they can usually make it sing. And they say it's one of my stronger writing talents. Yet it sounds horrid coming from my own mouth...
Excellent points.
SoNowThen wrote:QuoteEver hear an amateur actor do Glengarry Glen Ross? Makes the dialogue sound like the worst tripe ever.
Are you referring to the special feature on the most recent DVD of Glengarry Glen Ross, where they have the student actors doing the lines from Baldwin's big speech? Awesomely funny stuff...
because I live in gay Canada, we get a shit hole version of that dvd, complete with french on the cover to ruin it.
what features do you guys get on your american version?
SoNowThen wrote:Quotewhat features do you guys get on your american version?
--Commentary by director James Foley
--Production notes
--Digitally remastered
--"A.B.C. (Always Be Closing)": an original documentary tracing the psychological intersection of fictional and real life salesman
--A Tribute to Jack Lemmon
--"J. Roy: New and Used Furniture" short
--Scenes with bonus audio commentary by Alec Baldwin, cinematographer Juan Ruiz Anchia, Alan Arkin, and production designer Jane Musky
--Clip archives from The Charlie Rose Show and Inside the Actor's Studio
--Full-screen and widescreen anamorphic formats
In addition, the montage of amateur actors failing miserably at the Alec Baldwin speech is an easter egg.
we have the same in canada.
how do you access the easter egg?
Cecil B. Demented wrote:Quotehow do you access the easter egg?
Credit where credit is due...
http://www.dvdreview.com/eastereggs/collect/448.html
thank you
Quote from: Find Your MagaliSoNowThen wrote:
Quotewhat features do you guys get on your american version?
--Commentary by director James Foley
--Production notes
--Digitally remastered
--"A.B.C. (Always Be Closing)": an original documentary tracing the psychological intersection of fictional and real life salesman
--A Tribute to Jack Lemmon
--"J. Roy: New and Used Furniture" short
--Scenes with bonus audio commentary by Alec Baldwin, cinematographer Juan Ruiz Anchia, Alan Arkin, and production designer Jane Musky
--Clip archives from The Charlie Rose Show and Inside the Actor's Studio
--Full-screen and widescreen anamorphic formats
In addition, the montage of amateur actors failing miserably at the Alec Baldwin speech is an easter egg.
Hmm, that's my version exactly.... my bad.
I read somewhere that the American version had a documentary about the ten best real estate scams in history. That must have been incorrect info. Too bad, I really wanted to see that...
Hrrmmm... every script always has it's own life (sometimes written fast, slow, in chunks, never finsihed) in my own experience, but what I find works best for me is just one sheet of paper crammed with a loose structure and ideas. Nothing terribly complex, just enough to get an overview. A lot changes during the actual writing.
I read a helpful tip for structuring that's worked for me. Script should be 120 pages, break your story down into 15 parts, all 8 pages each. I set 3-4 chunks for act one depending on the story, 3 chunks for act three, and the rest for act 2. Then just make sure all those little 8 page pieces are great and connect the dots. Plenty more managable and less overwhelming then having to fill a blank 120 pages.
Other than that, random tidbits that have worked for me:
- Revise the Mamet way, ditch the first and last line of every scene. Get in, get out fast.
- Don't describe shit unless it's crucial to the story (I've read too many scripts that endlessly describe the weather, cars, houses, furniture-- don't write a novel, leave it to the reader's imagination, they'll fill in the blanks).
- If something's boring to you when you're writing it (exposition, etc.), everyone else will be. On that same note: AMUSE YOURSELF.
- Dialogue: no one speaks in complete sentences.
- Take criticism from anyone and everyone. I've gotten amazing ideas from people who don't read scripts at all. No script is perfect, it can always be better.
- Read any script you can, good or bad. Even better if you can get your hands on things that haven't been made yet.
- Most important of all, and often most overlooked: Be aware of how the text looks on the page. Let the story flow. Full pages of solid description can be intimidating. Those action scenes or intense moments should read quickly, space it out, short sentences, be creative. Slow down when it's needed. I guess I'm saying be conscious of pace, get in the head of your reader.
There's nothing wrong with writing a bad script, the more you write, the better you'll get. You're not going to get it perfect right out of the gate. Like all things, it takes practice.
Enough preaching for today, I'm beginning to think this is a little bloated and self-important... Hope someone finds this useful.