Hi everyone.
I watched the Golden Globe awards this evening and it made me angry. First of, Aaron Sorkin got the ball rolling with the most condescending "smart girls have more fun" line. He was trying so hard, and fell totally flat with his insincerity. I kind of wanted Inception to win, which, let's face it, didn't have very strong female roles either. Ellen Page was an audience character, basically there to fill in the blank, and Marion was never really shown as herself -- only how Leo's character perceived her. Melissa Leo won for Fighter -- great, she was good, but let's face it, her character felt a bit cliche. That movie pissed me off with how the sisters were portrayed -- hive mentality, ignored by the mother, the sons got all the attention, blah-dee-blah-deee-blah. I know it was based on a true story, and they were set up to be "white trash" but damn, throw me a bone to keep them from just being annoying brats. Natalie Portman won for Black Swan -- great, she gave a terribly awkward speech. She was great in the role. Helena Bonham Carter was great in the King's Speech, but still, she was just there to hold up a man.
Black Swan -- female character descends into madness.
Fighter -- female characters fight with one another, but join together to help a man.
King's Speech -- female character is no-nonsense, but works hard to help her man.
Social Network -- let's face it, most of the women are props here, or just cause problems for the men.
Inception -- women are either part of the man's mind (or killed -- Nolanized -- to drive the main character) or just there to keep the audience on track.
Why can't the woman win? I wanna see a woman win. Why are women always so sad and insane or living for a man?
I'm so bored with movies lately. And it's mostly because I'm having a tough time relating.
Now, I've had a pretty shitty weekend, so maybe it's just the remnants of my own bitterness seeping through, but I'm waiting for a great female role in a drama that doesn't make me feel forced to clap, forced to be happy for it just because it feels like THAT'S ALL THERE IS!
I'm glad Annette Bening won, The Kids are All Right is definitely just an okay movie, though. Jane Lynch is funny -- but for Glee? Laura Linney is always great, but who really watches The Big C? Writing this out, I realize it just sounds like I'm being hard on the women and their roles. I'm really not, every actress who won or was nominated were/are great. I just wish they had more to work with.
Don't even fuckin' get me started with the Directing awards.
Best win of the night - Katey Sagal. Bad. Ass.
So Aaron, if smart girls have more fun, how about you write some good roles for them for next year, mmmmkay?
Okay, I'm going to bed. 'Night. Thanks for letting me vent.
The Social Network was misogynistic and Sorkin was probably just trying to fire extinguisher the talk. It's still a great film, but yeah, not kind to women. Nerd guys who created Facebook at Harvard have band-aids. Girls who will sleep with them because they're in a ba........created facebook on computers. lol.
Still, times are changing, just slowly. Last year Kathryn Bigelow beat Jim Cameron for best picture and Jim Cameron is the most manly filmmaker ever. Also it was the highest grossing movie ever. Women are pretty much owning men right now. They got guys like Aaron Sorkin thanking them instead of his own wife and/or husband when he wins an award.
not entirely sure what you're pissed at, that there aren't enough good female characters last year? i thought there were plenty!:
Fish Tank
True Grit
I Am Love
Black Swan
The Fighter
Blue Valentine
Everyone Else
Greenberg
Winter's Bone
not all of those are Paragons of Female Strength, but they're human characters with depth that aren't relegated to the background
I'm not sure if your problem is with the Globes or with Hollywood. But remember that the Globes are COMPLETELY full of shit.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jan/11/news/OE-WAXMAN11
Did no one see Rabbit Hole? What the fuck?
Quote from: Stefen on January 16, 2011, 10:56:12 PMStill, times are changing, just slowly. Last year Kathryn Bigelow beat Jim Cameron for best picture and Jim Cameron is the most manly filmmaker ever.
Yes, but Bigelow is also the most manly woman filmmaker around, right?
I'm also not sure if Gloria means The Globes or Hollywood itslef piss her off, but I was also trying to tell someone the other day about my favourite female performance of last here and realized the female characters weren't that much interesting to begin with...
Spoiler alert anyone? Jesus...
all I can say to you Gloria is don't let the Golden globes ruin movies for you. When I was watching it last night it made me wonder why people even give out awards like that because they seem so fucking worthless, but then the Oscars come around and you feel like they're merited when people win who deserve them and ( at least for me ) it restores some of my faith back into the industry. Hopefully some chicks will win, too. The Oscars don't play with stuff like that.
Are you sarcastic? The Oscars are just as awful(worst?)
If you're discouraged by awards, just don't care about them. Even the Cannes Film Festival looks stupid as far as having a process to judge films. People associate award recognition with cultural elitism, but with the money involved, it's more about marketing elitism. For professionals in the industry who are up for guild honors, I understand the personal pride in being recognized by your peers, but all these other awards just come off as bogus to me.
I don't understand anything in this thread.
Gloria, are you implying that for a female role to be completely good it has to be some sort of "women power" manifesto? That's just stupid. Sorry but it is, very very stupid to think in those terms. As I Love a Magician pointed out, there were plenty of juicy roles for women that gave actresses a chance to plunge into the depths of their talent and show it off. Every year there are. Men usually win playing antiheroes, fucked up devastaded people, and no one complains of "not relating".
Then the whole thing is based on watching the golden globes, which makes it bizarre. Then Reelist is perhaps joking around with the oscars being the INTEGRITY ANSWER to the golden globes.
What??
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/culture-warrior-ricky-gervais-and-the-future-of-awards-show-hosting.php
All I want to know is what Bale said to DeNiro.
My guess is a compliment on Raging Bull, probably something he studied to make The Fighter.
Apparently he told him that he was "the shit".
Quote from: Alexandro on January 18, 2011, 01:55:31 PM
I don't understand anything in this thread.
Gloria, are you implying that for a female role to be completely good it has to be some sort of "women power" manifesto? That's just stupid. Sorry but it is, very very stupid to think in those terms. As I Love a Magician pointed out, there were plenty of juicy roles for women that gave actresses a chance to plunge into the depths of their talent and show it off. Every year there are. Men usually win playing antiheroes, fucked up devastaded people, and no one complains of "not relating".
Then the whole thing is based on watching the golden globes, which makes it bizarre. Then Reelist is perhaps joking around with the oscars being the INTEGRITY ANSWER to the golden globes.
What??
Alexandro this reminds me of a me-and-you-agianst-the-world (or thread) moment 6 or so months ago. this has really come around full circle from the aldomovar thread.
these are great roles for females. it's funny Gloria, i made the exact opposite arguments in favor of women having more to sink their teeth into. so they could be three dimensional, and not perfect in their social abilities.
what is the alternative? female characters always in the right or sneaky/witty in teaching men lessons in life? it's great movies are exploring the dark side of women. because the dark side of women is both unique and beautiful while at the same time cautionary.
It's nice to see JGL still honing his off-screen Rat Pack reject persona. Why does he insist on trying to sound like Sammy Davis, Jr., baby?
That's just him being super, super high.
Quote from: Alexandro on January 18, 2011, 01:55:31 PM
I don't understand anything in this thread.
Gloria, are you implying that for a female role to be completely good it has to be some sort of "women power" manifesto? That's just stupid. Sorry but it is, very very stupid to think in those terms. As I Love a Magician pointed out, there were plenty of juicy roles for women that gave actresses a chance to plunge into the depths of their talent and show it off. Every year there are. Men usually win playing antiheroes, fucked up devastaded people, and no one complains of "not relating".
Then the whole thing is based on watching the golden globes, which makes it bizarre. Then Reelist is perhaps joking around with the oscars being the INTEGRITY ANSWER to the golden globes.
What??
Thanks for your opinion. All I really wanted to do was vent my frustrations at what I realized by watching the Golden Globes -- that there are a lot of honored movies that really don't give women a lot of good roles. I have not see Rabbit Hole, but I hope to. I just realized that when I was looking for a good, strong, positive female character in a primary role -- I couldn't find her at the Golden Globes (particularly in the Drama section). Maybe I'm wishing for something for myself -- maybe I just want to watch someone succeed who I can relate to. I understand that not all characters have to be relatable, and half the fun of movies are the fact that you can live vicariously through someone else. I just want a "King's Speech" or "The Fighter" for a woman. Let a woman actually overcome an obstacle for once. Women lead characters "making it against all odds" should not just be in romantic comedies with upbeat pop songs.
Quote from: socketlevel on January 18, 2011, 01:55:31 PM
these are great roles for females. it's funny Gloria, i made the exact opposite arguments in favor of women having more to sink their teeth into. so they could be three dimensional, and not perfect in their social abilities.
what is the alternative? female characters always in the right or sneaky/witty in teaching men lessons in life? it's great movies are exploring the dark side of women. because the dark side of women is both unique and beautiful while at the same time cautionary.
I don't want a sneaky woman teaching men lessons -- I want her learning her own lessons. If she's teaching a man, she's probably a secondary character anyway, haha. I enjoy movies that explore the dark side of women, too. Believe it or not, I did enjoy Black Swan! A lot! I just feel that that's the only way women are honored in the drama category.
Thanks to everyone for responding. I was a bit scattered with my post, but I was in the moment. Thanks for this discussion -- it's always interesting here. :yabbse-grin:
you mean like sandra bullock in the blind side?
Quote from: Alexandro on January 19, 2011, 08:17:48 PM
you mean like sandra bullock in the blind side?
Okay, you're gonna call me out on this, but I haven't seen it. However, Erin Brockovitch is a good example of one. I just think we need more of them. You know, show some variety.
Unfortunately, everything is controlled by the male 18-35 demographic, and that demographic are a bunch of idiots who want to see dudes kick ass and women look sexy. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
alejandro, you can't pretend Hollywood's a leveled playing field and great actresses get offered as many good roles as the actors. that's as stupid as anything you're accused Gloria's points of being.
Gloria, I've got some obscure foreign films (only obscure in the US) to recommend you if you know how to download movies illegally off the internet.
i didnt get mad. i grew a pair.
Quote from: pete on January 19, 2011, 11:08:59 PM
alejandro, you can't pretend Hollywood's a leveled playing field and great actresses get offered as many good roles as the actors. that's as stupid as anything you're accused Gloria's points of being.
Gloria, I've got some obscure foreign films (only obscure in the US) to recommend you if you know how to download movies illegally off the internet.
I didn't say that.
I said there were enough juicy female roles and that it was dumb to complain about those roles not being positive enough for the image of the female sex. I also said most of the time actors (male actors) win awards playing disturbing and/or hard to like characters and you don't listen to anyone complain about why male actors don't get a chance to show their most redeeming qualities as, you know, males.
Quote from: Gloria on January 19, 2011, 08:11:33 PM
I just feel that that's the only way women are honored in the drama category.
truthfully up until the last 2-3 years the only great awards given at the Oscars were in both the female actor categories, even in the worst of the awards era (mid 90s to mid 2000s)
it was the only category that i looked forward to, because they were meaty roles usually in in dependant films. if you're interested go back and check it out.
i agree with Pete that women don't get nearly as many good roles, i just think one of the reasons (along with many many more) is because writing a corrupted/troubled female character since the 80s was wrongfully considered politically incorrect. which is sad. it was safe to either objectify a woman as a bimbo or write her as a man's moral compass. both of which are retarded. I've seen just as many relationships go shitty because of the woman in as much as i have because of the man.
imagine a film where a woman fucks up her relationship, and through the trials and tribulations comes around to seek an apology, and the man either decides to take her back or not. they do exist, but so seldom. there are countless films like that with men. the true question is how does that serve in the bigger picture? who knows. I'm happy that the pendulum swing is starting to come back.