Game of Thrones (spoilers)

Started by diggler, June 06, 2011, 02:39:04 PM

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Jeremy Blackman

That was, without a doubt, my favorite "glorious battle scene" that the show has given us so far. How long have I been talking about dragons scorching battlefields? Now I finally got to see it. When Draenerys said "dracarys," I definitely might have screamed "yes!"

GoT managed to turn me into a bloodthirsty monster for a good while. I actually enjoyed seeing all those Lannister men cooked alive. They and Jaime are fighting for Cersei, after all. I genuinely wanted to see Jaime's face blasted off by fire just then. And Bronn... he can die immediately. Always a fun character, but he has no honor. Don't need to root for him. It blows my mind that we actually got to see Bronn face off against a Dothraki, who fought just as dirty as he does.

Then, Tyrion on the hill. Boom. Instant perspective. That hit me like a truck. I felt like the three-eyed raven for a second while all of Tyrion's feelings flashed before my eyes.

I don't think it can be overstated how masterful that whole setpiece was. The editing alone... watching that horizon, waiting for the Dothraki to appear... Jesus. They made the battle very personal, too. Consider all the characters at play: Dany, Tyrion, Jaime, Bronn, and even Dickon.

Rest of the ep was also pretty great. Going to say Winterfell was the highlight. The cascade of payoffs just continues — Brann saying "chaos is a ladder" was so exciting. And Arya's sparring scene — so much is happening within Sansa's reactions there, it's insane.

Jon and Dany had even more chemistry this week! They work well together. And by the way, the part where she demanded yet again that he bend the knee seemed like very clear foreshadowing that she would eventually drop that demand. That happened mere seconds before she was given the bad news about her allies having evaporated. Plus, as I keep saying, if she gave the Greyjoys sovereignty, why not the Starks?

Overall, the quality of the show is so high right now, especially in the writing. The only things I would even venture to criticize are a few acting moments here and there, but I usually just ignore that and fault the director anyway.

Okay, let's talk military tactics for a moment. Both sides learned some very important things. The Lannisters learned that the ballistas are their greatest strength. Drogon learned he needs to duck and weave — don't fly straight at the thing, dummy. Note that it was a very lucky shoulder shot, by the way. Dragons' scales become hard as armor when they get old enough, so that may be hard to duplicate. Can some kind of armor be fashioned to shore up their weak spots?

Either way, I think Dany clearly has the advantage. She can fly in close to the ground (that was smart) and make quick work of everyone while not being an exposed target in the sky. Obvious next step: Jon and Tyrion, since they are both Targaryens (come at me), need to get up on them other two dragons and join her. Book lore says that dragons do in fact need to be ridden; they can't just be sent into battle. I wonder if deploying all three dragons would provide too many targets for ballistas, or if they can properly support each other (cause like, imagine if Drogon had a buddy there). I'd say that if they're being ridden adeptly, it could work.

That's the air battle. On land, Daenerys appears to have both the numbers and the power. It's true Jaime made a point of saying they were spread thin there, but if the Unsullied can reconnect with Dany, those combined forces would seem to have a good chance.

Anyway, best ep since the end of last season. I'm so happy they're nailing this.
Living life big time


Yeah, that battle more than made up for the tame ones we got earlier this season.

So, is it too obvious to predict that Bronn was the one that saved Jaime and that he'll die (he had a brief moment of character redemption when he chose to fight instead of grab his gold so he's good to go), but Jaime will live and be captured and then we get some juicy scenes between him and Tyrian?

Jeremy Blackman

I agree, Jaime being captured would seem to be the most narratively satisfying path. There's so much potential there that they wouldn't even have time for all of it.
Living life big time



Jeremy Blackman

It's been interesting reading and hearing everyone's reactions to this episode. People seem to love the loot train battle scene because they don't know who to root for. That's clearly what was intended, too. But I sincerely had a very different but perhaps equally powerful reaction — burn them all. In the moment, I was ready for everyone on that battlefield to die in fire: Jaime, Bronn, Dickon, and anyone else supporting Cersei. I guess I've picked a side.

I think I was slightly wrong about Bronn, though — they clearly attempted a redemption arc within this episode, where he leaves the gold behind and goes to save Jaime, etc. I suppose I chose to remain skeptical that he actually has honor now.

I've been hearing a lot of speculation about a Jon and Dany marriage alliance. They clearly have chemistry and mutual admiration, right? Shared values, like I've been saying. Plus, aunt/nephew is barely even incest for Targaryens. It's almost not incest enough.

Bending the knee is also something one might do while proposing marriage. Would the Northerners be up for a such an alliance? That would give the North more power, right, since Jon would have influence over all seven kingdoms? Seems like a win/win/win.
Living life big time


Yeah how everyone isn't fully on team Dany right now I have no idea. Rooting for the Lannisters at this point is like rooting for Trump, only Cersei is way smarter than Trump.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 09, 2017, 01:34:25 PMIt's almost not incest enough.



Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 09, 2017, 01:34:25 PM
I think I was slightly wrong about Bronn, though — they clearly attempted a redemption arc within this episode, where he leaves the gold behind and goes to save Jaime, etc. I suppose I chose to remain skeptical that he actually has honor now.

The thing I always loved about Bronn is that he's always been kind of above "honor" in that sense. He's a guy with a job, and he's going to punch his time card in and out every day and expect his paycheck at the end of the week. He's basically Jim from The Office, with the added benefit of being awesome at his job. I never saw him as in need of redemption, because he's so indisputably and unapologetically who he is. If he's experiencing an arc at this point, it's that he's discovering the added responsibilities that come with being promoted to upper management.
My house, my rules, my coffee


He's an honest, brutal pragmatist, and that's his whole thing but I reckon there's a fair bit of humanity to him. He stopped for a moment before killing Ser Vardis but Lysa was too stupid to stop the fight. He was concerned for Tyrion when he had to turn down his champion request. There's also a deleted scene where he kinda comforts Shae.
This Jaime saving thing might be the whole Jaime can't pay his debts thing if he is dead thing but I think he's grown attached to both Lannisters and that's probably his biggest mistake as a (former) sellsword and that might be just what gets him killed.
I'm actually kinda worried Dany will have him killed for shooting Drogon.

The Jon/Dany thing has been kinda obvious this season. There's that part where she allows Jon to mine dragonglass and then Jon walks away and she gives him that brief glance and I was like "Ohhh, it's really gonna happen".
I was kinda hoping Jon would be like this lone wolf dude whose mind is set only on the WW but I'm actually happy to see this happen. They're related and all, but there's a precedent and they've existed apart from each other for almost their entire lives. At their core, they want to do the right thing. Makes sense as far as story goes also it's better than the original Jon, Arya and Tyrion love triangle GRRM planned years ago (really, this was a thing).


Promo images for next EP:
Look at that look in number 5.
I very much look forward to the scene from image 8. I miss those scenes.

Jeremy Blackman


I think this edges out last week as the best of the season so far. Every single scene was like wow I can't believe they're giving this to me. The character payoffs are off the charts now — this was exciting from top to bottom with no battle scenes.

I never imagined that seeing Jon pet a dragon would make me cry, but it sure did. And that was immediately followed by Jorah's return — too much!

That was the most convincing dragon shot we've seen so far, right? I was stunned. Then, the next scene with the ravens flying over the wall... good lord, that was one of the most beautiful images Game of Thrones has ever given us. The budget for this season must be ridiculous.

Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on November 23, 2015, 01:27:02 AMWe don't even deserve this show.

Daenerys appears to have a pretty intense crush on Jon. That is definitely not subtext anymore. We'll have to add some screencaps. But wow, she was basically batting her eyes at him, then when he wanted to leave she seemed equally terrified she'd lose him and inspired by his bravery and selflessness.

I had been hoping that the white walkers would be fought without Cersei's help, making her a coward, and giving Daenerys infinite politcal capital for having saved the realm. That appears to be off the table... maybe.

One nitpick — it seems just a little unlikely that Jaime and Bronn could have escaped. I would have bought it more had Bronn pulled a drowned Jaime out of the river and revived him. It's possible Daenerys and Drogo had to immediately retreat just then. We didn't get to see it.

Seeing Randall and Dickon being burned alive blew my mind. Wait, are they actually doing this? Yep. I kind of wanted Drogo to eat them, though.
Living life big time


Fun, fan-servicey episode. Next week is going to be absolutely bonkers.

I have to say the pacing was bizarre this episode. Threw me off. A lot of important stuff happened in this episode. Some of it weird. It felt like half a season in an episode.
I'm still not exactly feeling the writing but I'm enjoying the ride.

Yeah, there's no way Jaime and Bronn should have been able to get out of that alive.

I was sad to see Dickon die. He seemed like a good lad. Lord Tarly's reasoning was pretty lame- he was a Targ loyalist during the rebellion. Dany was born in Westeros and her father was his king. Which seems like a pretty good link to the country. He struggled for a scene to betray Olenna and then had the choice to live under a relatively fair Targ but decided against it. Maybe he just doesn't like them brown Dothrakis stealing dem soldier jobs. Anyway, they could have been useful assets.

I think Gilly just mentioned Jon has the best claim for the throne. Also, considering the secret marriage happened in Dorne, I wonder if Elia Martell was in on it. Otherwise Rhaegar was one cold-ass dude. It would be cool and a little dark if it was revealed if he actually was all calculating and prophecy-obsessed and not actually in love with Lyanna and just saw her as a tool.

I'm happy to see Jorah again, all useful and non-gross.

Beyond the wall dream team is awesome. On a very stupid little mission but it's awesome.
Though I'm worried because they are all amazing characters and I can't picture all of them surviving.

Leave Sansa alone, you big meanie. Arya was kinda annoying in that scene.

God, Littlefinger is a fucking creep.


What's good has been talked about, so I'll just say:

—the show is trying to sell Littlefinger as some kind of genius ahead of everybody but the show isn't clever enough to have him do something really clever, it's the most robotic aspect of the show, let him die, please...(They'll probably gonna kill him at the end of the season, Dorne-like way, because they have nothing for him.)


The dude was a genius schemer way ahead of everyone when they had the books to draw on but maybe the 'broad strokes' provided to the showrunners didn't include LF's later plans. Varys has lost his power in a way too. There's something great in the idea that all his schemes lead him to fizzle out in The North but it hasn't been that interesting to watch this season. I did really enjoy watching him skulking in the corner but it's hard to believe that ninja Arya got out-stealthed by this dude.
I suppose 'the game' becomes more irrelevant as the winter apocalypse approaches and that's why LF can't contribute much.

It's really hard to imagine how the next season will even be structured and paced.

I'm also struggling to see what they plan to do with Euron. I hope it's something really surprising. I want him to be relevant to the final WW plotline somehow and not just some edgy mini-boss detour.


Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2017, 11:42:19 PMDaenerys appears to have a pretty intense crush on Jon. That is definitely not subtext anymore. We'll have to add some screencaps. But wow, she was basically batting her eyes at him, then when he wanted to leave she seemed equally terrified she'd lose him and inspired by his bravery and selflessness.

I was worried their relationship would feel forced but it's totally believable to me. The little glances they have given each other through the episodes - it has been one of my favorite things this season. They are also the two hottest characters so of course they would be attracted to each other!

Jeremy Blackman

Yup. And that exchange when he leaves:

Jon: If I don't return, at least you won't have to deal with the King in the North anymore.
Dany: I've grown used to him... *wink*

It's the equivalent of passing a note in class that says "I like you." This could be the first time Daenerys is falling in love organically. It seems to really help that Jon is her equal and carries himself as such.

Also, you know how I've been harping on their shared values? Dany, after her arrival, said to Jon: "we both want to help people." And clearly her desire in that conversation was convincing Jon that, sure, her methods seem a little violent, but so was Battle of the Bastards — they're both on the same page and want the same thing.


Quote from: Jeremy Blackman on August 13, 2017, 11:42:19 PMDaenerys appears to have a pretty intense crush on Jon. That is definitely not subtext anymore. We'll have to add some screencaps. But wow, she was basically batting her eyes at him, then when he wanted to leave she seemed equally terrified she'd lose him and inspired by his bravery and selflessness.
Living life big time


Daenerys kind of lost me this episode, or maybe she's always been ruthless and we're just seeing it more now. Her whole "I'm fighting for the poor people, but if you don't join me I'll kill you" schtick its pretty evil. She couldn't have captured those guys who refused to bend the knee, or give them a more painless death?

Pacing is odd, but there is generally no fat in these episodes so it's easy to let slide. I agree some of the writing is great, other times it's very exposition heavy and clunky.