french new wave, independents, next?

Started by SmellyBoobFungus, February 08, 2004, 05:25:19 PM

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SmellyBoobFungus

February 08, 2004, 05:25:19 PM
our culture is rapidly changing.  we're getting more and more music video/commercial directors making transition into film (spike jonze, michel gondry, fincher, a possible cunningham).  how is this going to affect the industry? also, about 5 to 10 years from now, we're gonna have directors, like myself, influenced by video games with incredibly short attention spans.  wtf are these people, like myself again, going to do with the industry?
Guy with spoon: My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big.
Banana: I am a banana!

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SmellyBoobFungus

#1
February 08, 2004, 05:27:00 PM
oh, and hi,, i'm new to teh forum.  you guys look like an interesting group.

-cheers-
Guy with spoon: My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big.
Banana: I am a banana!

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Pubrick

#2
February 08, 2004, 07:00:49 PM
Quote from: SmellyBoobFungusour culture is rapidly changing.  we're getting more and more music video/commercial directors making transition into film (spike jonze, michel gondry, fincher, a possible cunningham).  how is this going to affect the industry? also, about 5 to 10 years from now, we're gonna have directors, like myself, influenced by video games with incredibly short attention spans.  wtf are these people, like myself again, going to do with the industry?
judging from the pioneers of today, at worst there'll be an increase of McGs. which is not necessarily a bad thing.

the most excellent thing about this new "mtv" generation of directors is that they didn't do these predictably video-ish things u said. in fact the few who did retain their video sensibilities to the point of nausea (Jonas Akerlund, Hype Williams) totally flopped, they should hav known better. the ones who restrained themselves, treating film as a new medium to revolutionize, were successful, and hav made the most interesting and innovative films of the last 6 years (Spike Jonze,  Mark Romanek, Michel Gondry, Jonathan Glazer).

these ppl know better than to give in to that disproven cliche which u suggested. sure if there are directors now who hav no idea that these good ones came before them, they might try to do the quick cut thing without the novelty of say Baz Luhrmann (not included cos he's not a video director) and will fail miserably.

so if they truly understand their vision, are not overly pretentious, and bother learning a little about the history.. i see only good things coming out of video directors in the future.
under the paving stones.

Gold Trumpet

#3
February 08, 2004, 07:41:32 PM
I'm mostly negative about this revolution of sorts. I'll hold Fincher and Proyas as two good filmmakers to come from music videos, but its a minimal number overall. The main issue though with the music video generation that bothers me is that it is having the same impact as the Tarantino explosian that spawned so many copy cats of Pulp Fiction: 80% of the films will be shit because the content, structure, and ideas can easily be exploited. It's be terribly hard to exploit the ideals of Ingmar Bergman, Federico Fellini and Michelangelo Antonioni because their basis of art is so much finer, but yet, their films continue to hold back row importance in revolutionizing cinema.

SmellyBoobFungus

#4
February 08, 2004, 08:18:59 PM
so GT, how do you hold the music video generation in following the same trend of tarantino-esque films?  the thing w/ taranintino-esque films that they exploit his style and structure.  if you pay close attention to a few of these music video directors, they're very passionate about carrying their feelings, personality, and ideas over to the story. i really think a few of these guys are going to revelotunize film because of their vigorous approach to experimenting with the medium. besides, the directors don't exploiate content, structure, or ideas that's what writers do.  as long as these music video directors (jonze, gondry, fincher) make the right choices for story they won't cheat the medium or themselves.
Guy with spoon: My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big.
Banana: I am a banana!

Rejected

The Perineum Falcon

#5
February 08, 2004, 08:26:38 PM
On the subject of MV directors, I think it really depends on what they've directed. Jonze, Gondry and Co. have a distinct style unto themselves that make their videos stand out and exciting to watch.
However, that fucker who directed Torque previously directed several Britney Spears videos as well Sisqo's "Thong Song," among others. I think it'd be easy to tell which MV-turned-film-director would be most successful in this business.
We often went to the cinema, the screen would light up and we would tremble, but also, increasingly often, Madeleine and I were disappointed. The images had dated, they jittered, and Marilyn Monroe had gotten terribly old. We were sad, this wasn't the film we had dreamed of, this wasn't the total film that we all carried around inside us, this film that we would have wanted to make, or, more secretly, no doubt, that we would have wanted to live.

Gold Trumpet

#6
February 08, 2004, 08:32:01 PM
Quote from: SmellyBoobFungusso GT, how do you hold the music video generation in following the same trend of tarantino-esque films?  the thing w/ taranintino-esque films that they exploit his style and structure.  if you pay close attention to a few of these music video directors, they're very passionate about carrying their feelings, personality, and ideas over to the story. i really think a few of these guys are going to revelotunize film because of their vigorous approach to experimenting with the medium. besides, the directors don't exploiate content, structure, or ideas that's what writers do.  as long as these music video directors (jonze, gondry, fincher) make the right choices for story they won't cheat the medium or themselves.

Filmmakers can most definitely exploit. They can use an over abundance of style when it isn't needed. An example of this (though not a video director originally, but influenced by still) is Rob Marshall and all his unnecessary camera angles and edits in Chicago. Stylistically, it made no sense to have because it took away from the performances which should have been the backbone of the film, but of course, none of the main actors could really dance either so Marshall may have been trying to hide that fact. Filmmakers post-Tarantino have exploited on style when not necessary and so have music video directors (actually, by their nature, they do it most.) This is also a hard topic to really argue on because you see greatness from someone like Spike Jonze. I have yet to like a film done by Spike Jonze so there's a whole 'nother argument right there.

Anyways, if you haven't heard it yet, welcome to the board! Hope you stick around and good first topic.

godardian

#7
February 08, 2004, 08:44:34 PM
I think that the idea of advertising/music-vid training ground is just as ambivalent as what's been indicated by the very intelligent posts above. There's nothing inherently wrong with cutting your teeth and learning the ropes in these media, as long as you understand there's much more to successful feature filmmaking than pretty-shiny lighting and maximum-instantaneous-impact editing. I mean, a music video director can make a film that doesn't look like a typical music video (Spike Jonze has done it, Michel Gondry has done it). They can also make films that do look like typical music videos (David Fincher, sorry GT- it's that one relentless and ever more predictable lighting scheme he has). And a director who's not known for music videos can make a film that looks like one (Baz Luhrmann).

As for video games... I don't care about them at all and would find it a shame if film went in that direction, or any direction designed to cater to shorter attention spans (this has, of course, already happened in a radically disturbing way, but like anything bad, it can still get worse). Visually, too, it has gone that way somewhat with the more cheap (I mean crass, not inexpensive) examples of CGI and the Star Wars prequels, which to me are about the ugliest movies ever made.
""Money doesn't come into it. It never has. I do what I do because it's all that I am." - Morrissey

"Lacan stressed more and more in his work the power and organizing principle of the symbolic, understood as the networks, social, cultural, and linguistic, into which a child is born. These precede the birth of a child, which is why Lacan can say that language is there from before the actual moment of birth. It is there in the social structures which are at play in the family and, of course, in the ideals, goals, and histories of the parents. This world of language can hardly be grasped by the newborn and yet it will act on the whole of the child's existence."

Stay informed on protecting your freedom of speech and civil rights.

SmellyBoobFungus

#8
February 08, 2004, 08:55:55 PM
right on, i welcome your welcome. i agree with you full-heartdly about chicago.  my reason for liking jonze is simple. he brings truth and honesty to kauffman's stories. i guess i have faith in some of these MV directors because i believe in what kubrick says that film should be like music. film should carry moods and emotions, and part of the responsibilty of an MV director is to capture the singers/artists voice/mood/emotion.

one reason i think jonze is so great is because he uses amatuer equipment, but still manages to captivate an audience. he treats subjects and content with a very natural/documentary style feel, which is an example of total commitment to the story and subject. for example, take the music video 'praise you'.  yes, it's only a music video, but it becomes so much more complex because the way jonze treats the subject, in this case it's himself or Richard Couffey. he has a friend film him with a low budget dv cam, which brings an undeniable reality to richard couffey, and creates a feeling of magical realism.  this is why i believe spike jonze is so great because of how he plays with our perceptions on reality and art. jonze is a representation of the hand-held dv, and that style or how the dv is used does not matter, it's all about the subject. another example of this is his contribution towards jackass.
Guy with spoon: My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big.
Banana: I am a banana!

Rejected

SoNowThen

#9
February 08, 2004, 11:11:28 PM
Music video directors must die. I find it funny that their style is so shit terrible, and yet of all the copies of copies of copies, the only people that can do it right are the foreigners (City Of God guy, and 21 Grams guy -- I hate spelling their names).

Fuck over-shakey hand-held, fuck 55 cuts per second.

8)  My two pennies.

Welcome to board, btw, mr fungus.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Pubrick

#10
February 08, 2004, 11:46:33 PM
Quote from: SoNowThenMusic video directors must die. I find it funny that their style is so shit terrible, and yet of all the copies of copies of copies, the only people that can do it right are the foreigners (City Of God guy, and 21 Grams guy -- I hate spelling their names).
wow, did u even read anything that was posted?

wow. when ur gonna say sumthin stupid like that u should at least pre-empt it with "I didn't read anything that's been written, so what i'm about to say could totally have been disproven and destroyed before i even write it".
under the paving stones.

SmellyBoobFungus

#11
February 08, 2004, 11:53:17 PM
Quote from: P
Quote from: SoNowThenMusic video directors must die. I find it funny that their style is so shit terrible, and yet of all the copies of copies of copies, the only people that can do it right are the foreigners (City Of God guy, and 21 Grams guy -- I hate spelling their names).
wow, did u even read anything that was posted?

wow. when ur gonna say sumthin stupid like that u should at least pre-empt it with "I didn't read anything that's been written, so what i'm about to say could totally have been disproven and destroyed before i even write it".

word
Guy with spoon: My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big. My spoon is too big.
Banana: I am a banana!

Rejected

soixante

#12
February 09, 2004, 03:18:51 AM
What's next?  There are many talented directors making music videos, and some have made good films.  The guy who did One Hour Photo was a music video director, and One Hour Photo certainly doesn't have the cliched stylistic trademarks of music videos -- no fast cuts, etc.  I think it's a generational thing, that older people dismiss music videos, because they never see any.

Back in the 70's, veteran directors like Howard Hawks, John Ford and Billy Wilder basically took a shit on new filmmakers, saying "these young guys ain't so great, etc."  This is how baby boomers feel about music videos.

Great filmmakers can come from anywhere, but I think in the future foreign directors and female directors will be in the vanguard, and will define the 00's and 10's the way Tarantino defined the 90's.  White heterosexual American suburban teenage boys have ruled mass culture for too long.  It is time for a different sensibility.
Music is your best entertainment value.

analogzombie

#13
February 09, 2004, 03:54:54 AM
yeah its the same argument over and over, and it always turns out to be moot. whether it's film critics turning into filmmakers, video store clerks turning into autuers, or music video directors making the leap into film, there are always the nay-sayers who proclaim that the sky is falling and film is doomed. it's not doomed, anything unique or new to film will inevitably be a good thing in the long run. the techniques that work will stay and the stuff that doesn't will fade.
"I have love to give, I just don't know where to put it."

SoNowThen

#14
February 09, 2004, 09:03:59 AM
Quote from: P
Quote from: SoNowThenMusic video directors must die. I find it funny that their style is so shit terrible, and yet of all the copies of copies of copies, the only people that can do it right are the foreigners (City Of God guy, and 21 Grams guy -- I hate spelling their names).
wow, did u even read anything that was posted?

wow. when ur gonna say sumthin stupid like that u should at least pre-empt it with "I didn't read anything that's been written, so what i'm about to say could totally have been disproven and destroyed before i even write it".

??

My comments still stand. To clarify, I hate Jonze for different reasons, and I consider Fincher to be from a bit of a previous generation, so let's leave him out. The mv director who did Sexy Beast, imo, sucks. One Hour Photo was nothing special, Baz sucks, I'll never even waste my time watching Chicago.

So I'm waiting for a backlash of, I dunno, a different set of folks to start making films. The anti tv, anti video game, anti music video wave.

Let me know if I'm still missing the point...
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.
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