Once Upon a Time in the West Appreciation Thread

Started by Grand Epic, May 02, 2003, 10:44:25 PM

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SoNowThen

#30
December 11, 2003, 10:58:42 AM
but I knew all that. revenge.

but when they showed me the scene of why, it was just... I dunno...kinda cheeseball.

When Fonda said "who are you", and he kept giving names of dead men, that was enough info. It seems like everything else was cryptic, but this one thing from that past that has really no specific significance (another nameless family brutalized by Frank), is given weight at the most important time in the movie.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SHAFTR

#31
December 11, 2003, 11:13:58 AM
Quote from: SoNowThen

It really fizzled in the last ten minutes for me.

.

No way, jose.
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

SoNowThen

#32
December 11, 2003, 11:18:37 AM
I hate to be a dick, and I'm not just disagreeing to disagree, but can anyone tell me why they thought this movie (particularily the end) was so great? I really wanted to love it, but just ended up liking things about it. Don't tell me the acting was top, I know that. I also know the score was great, and the camerawork was great. But if it did add up to anything for you, and produced an emotional reaction that made you feel something, can you explain it to me? 'cos I didn't get that.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

SHAFTR

#33
December 11, 2003, 11:22:51 AM
Quote from: SoNowThenI hate to be a dick, and I'm not just disagreeing to disagree, but can anyone tell me why they thought this movie (particularily the end) was so great? I really wanted to love it, but just ended up liking things about it. Don't tell me the acting was top, I know that. I also know the score was great, and the camerawork was great. But if it did add up to anything for you, and produced an emotional reaction that made you feel something, can you explain it to me? 'cos I didn't get that.

I really liked the ending and the movie gave me that giddy feeling that some films do.  I enjoyed it more than The Good, The Bad and the Ugly simply because I felt the characters more.  I really did want Harmonica to get revenge, I found the flashback shocking.  I thought the death at the end (i don't want to give too much away) was surprising and handled well.  I don't know, something about the score playing over that last shot as Jill is getting them water (considering Cheyene's monologue) really hit me.
"Talking shit about a pretty sunset
Blanketing opinions that i'll probably regret soon"

MacGuffin

#34
December 11, 2003, 11:34:04 AM
Quote from: SoNowThenbut when they showed me the scene of why, it was just... I dunno...kinda cheeseball.

When Fonda said "who are you", and he kept giving names of dead men, that was enough info. It seems like everything else was cryptic, but this one thing from that past that has really no specific significance (another nameless family brutalized by Frank), is given weight at the most important time in the movie.

Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm misreading it, but did you miss that the boy was Harmonica and he feels responsible for his brother's death? That's a pretty specific significance. The names Harmonica reads off are Frank's past, but he's not after revenge for them. It's to add mystery that Harmonica knows who Frank is.
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

SoNowThen

#35
December 11, 2003, 11:36:33 AM
Quote from: SHAFTRI thought the death at the end (i don't want to give too much away) was surprising and handled well.  I don't know, something about the score playing over that last shot as Jill is getting them water (considering Cheyene's monologue) really hit me.

Yes, that was pitch perfect. In fact, everything with Cheyenne and Jill was. I guess I just thought it way overshadowed anything with Harmonica and Frank. The C & J stuff had a poetry and elegance about it that was unique, but the revenge stuff I've seen done better by Scorsese and Tarantino. Maybe that's my problem -- I've seen those guys take everything good that they could from Leone and make it better, and now I'm spoiled.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

Weak2ndAct

#36
January 06, 2004, 12:18:14 AM
Like an ass, I'd never gotten around to seeing this.  That is until I scored some Best Buy gift cards for XMAS.

BEST BLIND BUY EVER!

It's very rare to see something randomly with modest expectations and then realize that you just saw one of the greatest films ever.  I still can't believe it.  The final showdown officially ranks as one of my all time favorite scenes (they quick draw after the flashback!).  Wow.  Shit.

Now I'm mad it's not on my Dekapawhatever list.

Pedro

#37
January 06, 2004, 12:25:50 AM
Quote from: Weak2ndActLike an ass, I'd never gotten around to seeing this.  That is until I scored some Best Buy gift cards for XMAS.

BEST BLIND BUY EVER!

It's very rare to see something randomly with modest expectations and then realize that you just saw one of the greatest films ever.  I still can't believe it.  The final showdown officially ranks as one of my all time favorite scenes (they quick draw after the flashback!).  Wow.  Shit.

Now I'm mad it's not on my Dekapawhatever list.
got it for christmas.  best fucking western ever.  my favorite leone.  it kicks so much fucking ass....my gauuuuuuud.

MacGuffin

#38
January 06, 2004, 12:28:54 AM
Quote from: Weak2ndActNow I'm mad it's not on my Dekapawhatever list.

SHIT!!! I'm mad too. I needed more support with votes on this one.
"Don't think about making art, just get it done. Let everyone else decide if it's good or bad, whether they love it or hate it. While they are deciding, make even more art." - Andy Warhol


Skeleton FilmWorks

Alethia

#39
January 06, 2004, 08:07:51 AM
it was on my list......i think......

Gold Trumpet

#40
January 06, 2004, 10:19:03 AM
I finally revisited this film and loved it all over again. My love just has reservations. One could say this film is the dramatic answer to the fun had in the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I'd agree and disagree. Once Upon A Time in the West is dramatic, but isn't great drama. Its just as superficial as The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. The reason is because Once Upon A Time in the West still relies on characters being just the personas of real characters, who are of depth and variety.

The reason why this film is miles beyond the other film is because it is the best example of filmmaking to make the West really come alive. Everything, from compostion of shot to editing, is handled to perfection in conjucture with the action. The set designing is crafted to such depth that some places look very artificial because it has so much in it (the first bar scene), but yet seemed realistic for the movie because it was another world and was in conjecture with the same magnificent feeling this world gave off. The music is so elevated and finely tuned that the movie feels like a poem. Everything in the filmmaking here makes The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly look general. This movie gripped me the way The West Side Story did for the musical - offering filmmaking that was so good it gave me a conviction for the world like no other. It also dissapointed me in the same way. West Side Story offered hand-me-down stage acting and outdated 1950s slang for Shakespeare. Once Upon A Time in The West relied on personas and amateur violence in place of a good story.

I understand SoNowThen's grievances about the ending but would agree with MacGuffin's reasons for clearing up many of the simple questions asked of Charles Bronson's character. Also, the editing used to show who Bronson was gave off a great feeling like the rest of the movie.

SheffieldSean

#41
January 06, 2004, 02:23:46 PM
Film Commentary from Dr Sheldon Hall?

Bloody hell, he's one of my lecturers at University. He never told us about this! It almost makes him cool. Almost.

I'm reminded of a line from the British comedy Blackadder...

"One doesn't like to blow ones own trumpet."

"You might at least have told us you have a trumpet."

It's a great film though, one of the very best.
Back off man. I'm a scientist.

Ravi

#42
March 03, 2004, 01:46:31 PM
Anyone find the Easter Egg on disc 2?  Put the selector on "Documentaries" and press the Left arrow button to select "Once Upon a Time in the West" and click on it.

Ravi

#43
October 04, 2004, 02:10:14 PM
I watched most of the commentary last night on OUATIW and it was disappointing.  The participants frequently describe what's on-screen.  Occasionally there was some insight into the film and into Leone but the track is mostly a waste.
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