Kotte asks...

Started by kotte, January 05, 2004, 07:32:01 PM

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kotte

January 05, 2004, 07:32:01 PM
I always have these questions that are too small for new threads but still worthy being asked.

I'll be using 'Kotte asks...' to prevent flooding.


What do you feel about self-consciousness in movies?

Which, in your opinion, are the 3 most self-conscious movies?

Banky

#1
January 05, 2004, 07:42:44 PM
i think you need to better explain you question

kotte

#2
January 05, 2004, 07:47:33 PM
Well...movies that within point out it's a movie we're watching...

For example, Hudsucker Proxy. The dialogue is so highten. Very unrealistic but in a good way.

The Coens are a good example of self-conscious...except Fargo.

The Silver Bullet

#3
January 06, 2004, 01:47:09 AM
Even Fargo is self-conscious in its own way. It knows exactly where it's going, and exactly what it's doing to the audience as it does so. It's very calculated, but in [as you say] a good way.
RABBIT n. pl. rab·bits or rabbit[list=1]
  • Any of various long-eared, short-tailed, burrowing mammals of the family Leporidae.
  • A hare.
    [/list:o][/size]

Alethia

#4
January 06, 2004, 08:05:49 AM
kevin smith's films are almost the definition of self-conscious.  not that it's always a bad thing, but in the cases of mall rats and maaaybe JASBSB (but no, it was mostly enjoyable wasnt it?) it was...

i think i have stated the obvious tho.

kotte

#5
January 06, 2004, 08:14:30 AM
Quote from: ewardkevin smith's films are almost the definition of self-conscious.  not that it's always a bad thing, but in the cases of mall rats and maaaybe JASBSB (but no, it was mostly enjoyable wasnt it?) it was...

i think i have stated the obvious tho.

I really hate those 'look into the lens' jokes. Makes a joke out of it's own self-consciousness...which makes it self-conscious in a bad way.

I think movies that uses certain techniques in the story telling, like memento, are self-conscious. I liked the movie. It's inventive, it's cool, it's fresh...but it pulls you out of it everytime it jumps to the previous event.

Pubrick

#6
January 06, 2004, 08:28:16 AM
i think ur redefining what self-conscious means. cos if it's heightened style like u said in the coens, then that's just pretty much ever movie. every movie is heightened reality,.

then with memento,. i can see how that's self-conscious but that's different altogether. cos it's making u aware of general movie convention. by that new definition any gimmicky movie is self-conscious.. Spy Kids 3D for example.

the best type of self-conscious, the one i thought about originally, is the one that is aware of its audience and plays with it. these films are difficult to list, sumthing like Reservoir Dogs would be one. Barry Lyndon is an even better example. then it becomes interesting to define just what exactly it makes the audience aware of, through it's own movie-self-awareness.

it's all a bit confusing and vague.
under the paving stones.

SoNowThen

#7
January 06, 2004, 10:03:27 AM
the end of And The Ship Sails on, where the camera pulls out from the ship to show the camera crew filming the fake ship on a fake sea might be a good example.

I love this kinda self-consciousness.

...sorta like the coda to Taste Of Cherry, but that didn't work as well for me.
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

kotte

#8
January 06, 2004, 11:48:21 AM
I don't think every movie is self-conscious, only the ones that involve the camera in the storytelling...like another character.

Most movies use the camera as an observer.

Sure, movies aren't real but a majority of directors try to convince us it's set in our world, the world we live in. Hudsucker never wants us to believe it's real...an obvious example.


Quote from: SoNowThenthe end of And The Ship Sails on, where the camera pulls out from the ship to show the camera crew filming the fake ship on a fake sea might be a good example.

Damn. I have to check that one out. That sounds great. :)

SoNowThen

#9
January 06, 2004, 11:50:24 AM
It is.

Ya gotta love Fellini.

Another good one is when Guido whips the chick in 8 1/2, and she turns to the camera and says "what a man!".
Those who say that the totalitarian state of the Soviet Union was not "real" Marxism also cannot admit that one simple feature of Marxism makes totalitarianism necessary:  the rejection of civil society. Since civil society is the sphere of private activity, its abolition and replacement by political society means that nothing private remains. That is already the essence of totalitarianism; and the moralistic practice of the trendy Left, which regards everything as political and sometimes reveals its hostility to free speech, does nothing to contradict this implication.

When those who hated capital and consumption (and Jews) in the 20th century murdered some hundred million people, and the poster children for the struggle against international capitalism and America are now fanatical Islamic terrorists, this puts recent enthusiasts in an awkward position. Most of them are too dense and shameless to appreciate it, and far too many are taken in by the moralistic and paternalistic rhetoric of the Left.

cron

#10
January 06, 2004, 12:06:24 PM
Dogville and Adaptation are the only movies that i can come up with right now.
context, context, context.

Raikus

#11
January 06, 2004, 12:10:48 PM
High Fidelity

But just like Adaptation, it's more of a personal narrative than anything else--a way for the main character to relate to the audience in an easy way.
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cron

#12
January 06, 2004, 12:14:53 PM
the thing with High Fidelity is that a big part of the movie (at least half of it),  you get the feeling that you're watching a book. but not because is self-conscious, it's a bad adaptation, IMO.
context, context, context.

kotte

#13
January 06, 2004, 12:20:58 PM
Quote from: chuckhimselfoDogville.

It depends how you look at it. Movie or a filmed play.

I see it as a play and you can't really call theater self-consious. It's perform infront of us, the audience. Non-self-conscious movies let a potential audience take a peek inside the lives of the characters.[/i]

NEON MERCURY

#14
January 06, 2004, 12:22:33 PM
...........mel brook's films are ...sssssself cccoonnnscience....some of them


or the character of jar jar binks..ya?????
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