Breaking Bad

[modage]

As far Todd's death goes,  Jesse was tortured and enslaved, and forced to watch Brock become an Orphan.  I find it a bit weird to try and bring "logic" into that situation.  I also find it weird that just because Jesse consistenly shows emotions over these terrible acts he's committed that there's this yearning to rest assured about his "moral slate."  Fuck that, be happy he's alive because he's LUCKY.  His moral slate was toast once Walt started using him as his little puppet.  That's the theme of the show.  How one breaks bad and through the manipulation of others he cause their lives to get caught up in that whirlwind/downward spiral of breaking bad. It might be worth noting that this theme was prevalent in the finale as well.  Jesse is so lucky that he made it out alive and the only reason he survived WAS BECAUSE OF WALT! almost full circle.  walt brought him in and ruined his life, then saved what was left of it.

So the moral is, Jesse suffered more than Walt because he wasn't as smart as Walt. And shouldn't have gotten dragged into it in the first place?

It almost says, "Better to have broken bad and truly lived than to have never lived at all." I'm having a lot of trouble with this.

I just don't see this at all. People will still have to live with Walt's decisions, i think this is made pretty clear when walt hands over the lotto ticket. 
There's a lot of wreckage from Walt's path that may never get cleaned up. The finale just made it clear that his motives were not solely rooted in the heart of gold mentality that walt had been claiming previously. He did it for himself and tried to legitimize it through his family.

YES, my point exactly! People have to live with it! Do you know who doesn't have to live with it though? WALT.

[Neil]

No. The point is there's no clean slate for jesse. Also, you missed the logic in the face of rage portion that was in there.

[modage]

I guess I will concede Jesse in the face of, it's not the show's responsibility to wipe his slate clean. After he drives off, he can still be punished for what he's done. I guess that was bringing my own notions of "offering Jesse a hopeful ending" after all his suffering, which is not the show's responsibility. Though, again, Gilligan does state he thinks Jesse does get away with it instead of getting caught a few miles down the road. But lets assume he had already paid for the right for that. The bigger issue here is Walt.

Here's another bit from a few months back.

With shows about difficult-to-like anti-heroes like Walter White, Tony Soprano, or Don Draper, the ending feels extra-­important. The finale is when you, the showrunner, render a final verdict on the character and tell us whether your show is in a moral universe where bad people get punished. So, how vengeful a god are you?
I hope that if I were a god, I wouldn't be a particularly vengeful one. I've realized that judging the character is not a particularly fruitful endeavor on my part, and yet I have done that. I've lost sympathy for Walter White, personally. Not thinking, I've said to Bryan Cranston things like "Walt is such a bastard. He's such a shit." Then I realized this might color his perception of the man he's playing, so I found myself biting my tongue the last six months or so. And my perceptions of Walt have changed in these final eight ­episodes—I didn't think that was going to happen.

I think they got cold feet. Everything was pointing towards Walt getting what was coming to him, and they decided they couldn't do that to him and took a few steps towards redemption so they could offer him one last victory.

[Neil]

Just for the sake of curiosity, what did he have coming to him that the writer's didn't follow up on?

[Jeremy Blackman]

Essential Vince Gilligan interview at EW. Very wishy washy, "So it could be argued that he pays for his sins at the end or it could just as easily be argued that he gets away with it." That is not the show I thought I was watching. The thing is that I still did sympathize with Walt but I also wanted the show to kick me in the teeth at the end for doing so.

This is exactly my disappointment. Instead, we got a finale that was essentially a crowd-pleaser. So many things were designed to create satisfaction for satisfaction's sake. Walt having a small measure of reconciliation with Skyler (his apology for his harshness in the phone call, sharing emotional moments with her), and even with Jesse (that final nod between them), Walt getting to say goodbye to Holly, Jesse killing Todd, etc. etc. etc.

I was really hoping Breaking Bad would make a statement. But this message is boring.

It just doesn't feel like interesting ambiguity. It feels like they dithered or split the difference and simply failed to make a bold choice.

[mogwai]

Spoilers for LOST

I don't know if this relevant to the show but did ya'll notice Walt die the same way as Jack on LOST did? Wound on the right side of his rib cage. It both ends with a full shot of both bodies with them grinning.

[diggler]

I liked the predictable ending, at this point it was the most unpredictable thing they could've done. At least we didn't see Walt in a fucking church hugging Jane and Gale before walking into the light.

[©brad]

So in essence, you guys wanted the show to end with Ozymandias?

[jenkins]

I'd say that "Breaking Bad" is about a man facing death and realizing his true potential, spending his remaining time living life to the fullest and going out at the height of his powers.

yolo

[modage]

So in essence, you guys wanted the show to end with Ozymandias?

Ask yourself what you believe the show was really about. What is the answer? (Serious question.)

#NODISRESPECTOCBRAD #ALLDISRESPECTTOVINCEGILLIGAN (jk. love him too)

[Pubrick]

well i was right about this being a major spoiler, note that i added the spoiler warning after reading it:

A great article from Thomas Schnauz, one of the writers, about why it had to end. Warning: there is a kind of spoiler at the end; not really a spoiler, but kind of. Beware.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/09/29/breaking-bad-writer-why-it-has-to-end/

It was another moment in the show that ultimately made us realize that Walt had reached the end of his journey ... SPOILER words he speaks to Skyler END SPOILER in the series finale. Once he reaches that point, he has nowhere else to go. His true nature is revealed. So that's why, sadly, we came to the end.

i hate this cunt schnauz. this cunt schnauz, as he forever shall be named, undid all the good work everyone else on the cast and crew had managed to achieve in not revealing anything about any surprises in the finale. this cunt schnauz FOR NO NECESSARY REASON revealed that walt would get one more chance to talk to skylar. this cunt schnauz did not need to say that much detail. we weren't supposed to know that walt was standing right behind that post. that was an amazing reveal and it was fucking ruined by that fucking turd cunt shit-for-brains moron who should never have been allowed to give the above interview. this cunt schnauz almost ruined the finale for me. he even revealed the realisation that walt comes to in that last scene, something we have never heard from walt before, that shit about doing it for himself because it made him feel alive.

ok now that we have established that at least one writer on the show is a complete fucking idiot, i will take a break and come back in an hour to discuss the criticisms.

but for now i'll say: modage, i answered that question about what the show meant to me in that long post after the previous episode. i don't think anyone has really thought that much about what the show has been about this whole time. i might have taken it too far because my interpretation of the core ideas certainly weren't satisfied in the end, but as the criticisms have shown anyone attempting to take a comprehensive approach to the entire narrative trajectory of the show will see that the finale kinda hit the wrong note a few times. i think only the most superficial plot-centric understanding has been satisfied in the end.

basically it's this: yes there are some ambiguities about the final state of the characters. jesse didn't really gain anything except momentary freedom from captors and perhaps getting to let go of a grudge with walt, but as he drove off he still has massive mental and emotional scars and he still could get caught by the feds. walt's family is ruined with or without the millions of dollars, his legacy will taint them forever. marie gets a burial but that is cold comfort for losing a husband and sister (she said TRUCE when she called skylar, so they must not be talking). and then of course.. WALT.. he died, which was deserved (although i was one of the few hoping he'd get away with it) but here's the problem..

THEY PRESENTED IT AS IF ALL THESE EVENTS WERE A GOOD THING FOR WALT. there is no ambiguity at all. this is made abundantly clear by the word for word literal use of the song in the last minute. what the fuck? i am not sure what they were really trying to say with this about-face. whether things turned out badly for everyone in reality is pointless because it REALLY really is presented as a bittersweet ending for walt, emphasis on the SWEET.

like i said, i'll come back, i have to go and hate the cunt schnauz a bit longer.

[Alexandro]

i think the finale could have been more dramatic, but this is an amoral universe and the ending makes sense in it. they mentioned crimes & misdemeanors, and that is a fitting reference, because there not only the character gets away with everything, he even gets to live his life happily as if nothing happened.

walter's arc is pretty clear now. he needed to justify himself all this somehow. and it's through his recognition of selfishness that he is able to do that. so he gets peace. it's bullshit, but this is how most people achieve peace with terrible deeds. i don't understand this need to see walter and jesse and the characters in general get punished or live with "consequences".

[modage]

i think the finale could have been more dramatic, but this is an amoral universe and the ending makes sense in it. they mentioned crimes & misdemeanors, and that is a fitting reference, because there not only the character gets away with everything, he even gets to live his life happily as if nothing happened.

But for 5 seasons, the show has been telling us that (not in the real world but) in the world of the show, actions have consequences. There has been no evidence in Gilligan's universe to support the idea that the universe is random and chaotic and sometimes evil deeds go unpunished. Crimes & Misdemeanors thing sounds like something they came up with after the fact but is at odds with the rest of the entire series.

[Pubrick]

they also mentioned that eventually they stopped thinking of crimes and misdemeanors and started talking about Fargo.

pretty sure the ending wouldn't have been so triumphant had that been their guiding light.

i liked the episode though, because i'm one of the dickheads they tried to appease by giving walt so many victories. i'm not dissatisfied because i wanted him punished, i just wanted something more meaningful. that final song was SO on the nose it was ridiculous. the lyrics were saying almost exactly what the visuals were showing. i mean emotionally. the music added nothing. it was embarrassingly cute.

[Brando]

I think the show has to end with two things. The first and most obvious is with Walt's death. The second is for the show to go out with what it is known for and that would be Walt and his crazy Plans. The new identity, disguise and the gun is the first part of Walt's final and craziest scheme that he knows will result in his death. With that comment from Vince Gilligan, Walt's death is important in the success of the plan.

Especially due to the Vince Gilligan comment about the ending being a win for Walt, This was the ending I was expecting. I didn't know the specifics but as things started to pan out it became as the most plausible way it was going to end. Walt sees this as a win but only someone who's soul is as corrupted as Walt's could see this as a Win. He's a man who has lost everything. He's done so much harm to people he's loved.

I read some people were upset that everything went right for Walt. It's Breaking Bad. These plans always work out. How many of these crazy schemes over the series have we seen? There were ones that were a thousand times more complex but no one questioned the credibility. Walt was in town for less than a day but it wasn't plausible he wasn't immediately caught? How many national man hunts and amber alerts that last days and weeks but a bearded Walt couldn't be in town for a few hours?

Totally fair to call out and disagree with the final episode but don't think it's fair to say Vince Gilligan chickened out. It just comes off as presumptuous to say Vince wasn't brave enough to end the show the way I feel it should have ended. Even if you think the writers failed with the final episode,I think Vince Gilligan and the writers have earned enough credit to say they ended it how they wanted to end it instead of getting cold feet.