NEON MERCURY's ++ ps360ii Lite ++ thread -weaning you off WoW since 07

[Raikus]

Looks like an interesting build. I can understand decking out Subtlety but it's probably not that necessary. I think if you took some unnecessary points out of it and placed it in Crit % and SS it would benefit you more. Here's a build I modified from yours where you keep all your high item Subtlety talents but get a few important Combat/Assassination ones.

Be a fun build to play.

The major sacrifice is doing away with either Camo or MoD at your base of Subtlety. I find Camo much more useful than MoD though. Speed helps in PvP.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Looks like an interesting build. I can understand decking out Subtlety but it's probably not that necessary. I think if you took some unnecessary points out of it and placed it in Crit % and SS it would benefit you more. Here's a build I modified from yours where you keep all your high item Subtlety talents but get a few important Combat/Assassination ones.

Be a fun build to play.

The major sacrifice is doing away with either Camo or MoD at your base of Subtlety. I find Camo much more useful than MoD though. Speed helps in PvP.

I know I'm sacrificing a 5% critical chance, but this build is not dependent on crits like my assassination build. I don't think that's the rogue's strength anyway. Rogues can be easily outdamaged by a good AoE mage or fury warrior. Even the survival hunter I group with has been out-DPSing me, and my build is made to maximize damage. It seems that stealth and stuns are the rogue's greatest assets, especially in PvP. In AV yesterday my strategy of moving with a group and poking out for a cheap shot / kidney on warriors and shamans worked really well. That's all a mage needs to take them out. My favorite part of the game is still instances though, and we both know that a subtlety rogue is a great support class. My only worry is that Premeditation and Initiative (and much of the rest of the subtlety tree) are meant for short battles, which would make me much less strong against bosses (which seems to be my strength now). I suppose a subtlety rogue would be more useful against adds and minions and such and keeping aggro off casters (and sapping), rather than hacking on bosses which often have AoE and stuns and things that will kill a rogue very quickly. And still with Improved Backstab, I'll contribute decent DPS after stealth is out of the equation.

I'm fine going without Improved SS. Chances are when I'm not backstabbing I'll be using Hemorrhage when I need a cheap (and cheaper than SS) combo point. And Murder I can do without, just seems a waste for the small % it provides. And when I miss a Sap (which is extremely rare), Preparation gives me an extra Vanish, so I can then dodge the aggro and Cheap Shot... plus Camo and Improved Vanish would really help there. Improved Vanish will also help me escape Frost Novas in PvP and boss AoEs after a wipe (I can't count how many times my post-wipe Vanishes were broken in Uldaman because I couldn't escape the stomps quickly enough.)

I agree with your "be a fun build to play" sentiment, and that's why I'd rather specialize in stealth and stuns. (And also why I like MoD, which provides a 15-higher-level stealth, whatever that number means.) My only major weaknesses (that I can think of) would be continuous BG soloing and spamming large crits during long boss battles. I can do without that.

Another thing.... I'm thinking of dropping either Herbalism or Mining for Engineering. Any thoughts? (I discovered that I can specialize in Gnomish Engineering for the Death Ray and still have a Goblin Engineer make XL cables for me.)

Also, I just thought of a one-on-one strategy (against someone who can't escape stuns) using the Subtlety build. It's a little strange, but I think it would work. It assumes you can't pull of an initial ambush/backstab/kidney.

Premeditation
Sap (Improved)
Ambush
Kidney (using 3-4 CP)
Backstab
Vanish
Cheap Shot
Backstab
Eviscerate (using 3-4 CP)

You could even Vanish again to repeat the last 3 steps. And if you'd rather start the battle with Cheap Shot (sacrificing the Ambush), that would mean up to 3 Cheap Shots in one battle (with no cooldown).

[cron]

so , no one has played the xbox 360?

[polkablues]

so , no one has played the xbox 360?

Yawn.  Wait two years until you can buy a used one for 50 bucks.

[cron]

apparently that's never going to happen,

http://www.datafuse.net/page.php?news=703

good thing is, they already modded it .
not that i want to buy one..., i'm going to wait for one of them new nintendos

[ᾦɐļᵲʊʂ]

Now I can finally afford an Xbox.

[Jeremy Blackman]

Back on topic...

I think this is my final build. I dumped Setup, Ghostly Strike, and Hemorrhage because they seem to be meant for sword/combat rogues. Now I get Relentless Strikes, which I'm dependent on for a good kidney/backstab mid-battle combo. And Ruthlessness helps with bosses. I sacrifice two non-essentials, Improved Distract and a point off Master of Deception.

[polkablues]

Back on topic...

Man, we need two separate threads for this stuff... this is like when the gravy on your salisbury steak spills over onto your apple cobbler (in this analogy, WoW=gravy, badass console gaming=delicious cobbler).

[Jeremy Blackman]

We could have the consolve vs. PC debate again if that's what you want...

[Pubrick]

no, that's ok, i'll just change the title of the thread..

[NEON MERCURY]

no, that's ok, i'll just change the title of the thread..

haha..

We could have the consolve vs. PC debate again if that's what you want...

disclaimer:  i am an anti-social loser...so dont hate on what I about to say..its just an observation relating to the new title of this thread...its all in good fun.......but...


i think that pc gamers are prone to be bigger dorks/nerds/virgins/losers/etc.  than console gamers...well, gaming in general is a dorky thing which i am proud to be apart of but pc gamers are ugly looking...and they take gaming way to seriously.....we all know [as evident in this thread] that role playing games are the biggest attraction for dorks...and the pc has the most advance types of rpgs....and that online shit thrives into a geek community...i think console gamers are more likely to be white trash than pc gamers though...

[Jeremy Blackman]

i think that pc gamers are prone to be bigger dorks/nerds/virgins/losers/etc.  than console gamers...well, gaming in general is a dorky thing which i am proud to be apart of but pc gamers are ugly looking...and they take gaming way to seriously.....we all know [as evident in this thread] that role playing games are the biggest attraction for dorks...and the pc has the most advance types of rpgs....and that online shit thrives into a geek community...i think console gamers are more likely to be white trash than pc gamers though...

So you're trying to tell me that console gamers have an intense need for stereotyping and cultural categorization?

[cron]

please split this thread. i'm getting nauseous. i don't hate whatever game it is you're talking about, but i want more talk about consoles... please.

[Pubrick]

please split this thread. i'm getting nauseous. i don't hate whatever game it is you're talking about, but i want more talk about consoles... please.

do u realise i would hav to go back and select over 40 pages of accumulated posts about WoW?

it takes an RPG-player level of free time to do that! oh the irony of it all..

[Raikus]

Our guild spent our first night in Black Wing Lair last night. Downed Razorgore after 8 attempts.